Dairy makes you soft?

[marino]

So one of my favorite last meals is cottage cheese with no fat yogurt and/or almonds as well. I have a friend with a plethora of experience and training under his belt who has told me that dairy makes you soft. He advised me to have a protein shake instead. What do you guys/gals think?

[L3]

i have heard that drinking milk makes you retain water SUBQ....but ive never seen any proof or read anything to support that statement

[tiramisu]

Being fat makes you soft. mmmm fat.

[ironwill]

i have heard that drinking milk makes you retain water SUBQ....but ive never seen any proof or read anything to support that statement

Ive heard the same, i havent noticed a difference really, i wonder if it has to do more with allergies to dairy that makes one hold water if allergic???

[ubcpower]

there are some decent scientific studies published in some of these articles.
I dont touch it purely for the 'unknown' hormones and high levels of estrogen in the lactating cows and a worry itll lead to water retention. Although I eat beef so ...meh :)

http://www.rense.com/general26/milk.htm

[tiramisu]

So the real question is Dark Ale or Pale Ale?

[marino]

I dont touch it purely for the 'unknown' hormones and high levels of estrogen in the lactating cows and a worry itll lead to water retention.



this i have heard often

[Delt King]

I was still eating cheese, sour cream, cottage cheese, milk (all in small amounts) till last week, and i was still crazy lean. Some people are more sensitive obviously.

[gettinbigger]

cottage cheese used to be my favourite end of the day meal too - slow digesting protein, no fat, sorta tasty...what's not to like so gets the big thumbs up from me

[Aaron_37]

cottage cheese used to be my favourite end of the day meal too - slow digesting protein, no fat, sorta tasty...what's not to like so gets the big thumbs up from me

I agree with this. If you want the fats, you can get anything from 1-4% in your local supermarket. As well, if you want it without salt, that's available at Safeway - the Lucerne brand has 500g containers of No-salt-added CC. I survive off of cottage cheese... I don't remember the last time I went to sleep without eating some. I would venture a guess that it was around April.

[Zylo]

If you're worried about "hormones" in the cows and milk, buy a high quality Organic Milk or Organic Soy.

Read the ingredients labels next time you are at a grocery store. The Organic products are MUCH healthier and well worth the extra couple bucks...

Organic is the best way to go these days for food.

[Matt Rock]

I heard the same regarding "softness", but was taking cottage cheese before bed religiously for years until recently (approx past 3 months). If I ingest any dairy now it is 100% organic. Now to the point...

I have always been fairly vascular, but I am noticably more vascular since stopping the CC, with veins appearing in places never experienced before. I have been performing slightly more cardio than in the past, but my BF% is still within 2% of where it was while "on the Cottage Cheese". =)

Coincidence?? Anyone else experience this??

[BAM]

If you're worried about "hormones" in the cows and milk, buy a high quality Organic Milk or Organic Soy.

Read the ingredients labels next time you are at a grocery store. The Organic products are MUCH healthier and well worth the extra couple bucks...

Organic is the best way to go these days for food.

I agree with organic but I disagree with soy as I have read that it mimics estrogen.

[moh2010]

If you're worried about "hormones" in the cows and milk, buy a high quality Organic Milk or Organic Soy.

Read the ingredients labels next time you are at a grocery store. The Organic products are MUCH healthier and well worth the extra couple bucks...

Organic is the best way to go these days for food.

Great post buddy. The problem with dairy is usually lactose. 80% of peoples cant digest it and have a mild allergy. It's creating a gut irritation and inflammations. I don't know about fat gains, but Im reading all the time to remove dairy a few weeks out from precontest diet.


Go Organic

Most people who study carcinogens will tell you that the two most important things to buy organically are coffee and butter. These are the two most chemically laden foods you can buy if you don't choose organic. You can get organic coffee at Whole Foods. Some Starbucks locations also carry organic if you ask for it.


Personally, I'm using organic low fat cheese year long, but in moderation. For example, I'll get one or 2 pieces of cheese, but I eat it with 8oz of meat or eggs. It's like 5% of my proteins intake.

When Im dieting, once I stop taking whey proteins (even isolate), I look much better. I just switch whey to bcaa.


Also, is dairy a very good source of protein? I dont think so. Meat and eggs are far more superior. Once a product is pasteurized, it's losing most of it's nutritional value according to Charles Poliquin and many studies.

[Zylo]

I agree with organic but I disagree with soy as I have read that it mimics estrogen.

Yes, it does "mimic" estrogen but you're missing some key information on what is actually happening in the body physiologically.

Isoflavones are phytoestrogens found in plants or Soy products in this case. They have very mild estrogenic activity and can actually have an anti-estrogenic effects so yes, it does "Mimic" estrogen, but Isoflavones or Phytoestrogens have a much weaker effect than the powerful estrogen your body naturally produces.

The weak phytoestrogens compete for the same receptor sites as the estrogen your body produces. This is why the Soy Isoflavones can actually have an anti-estrogenic effect on you. Especially if you're taking Test and it's converting to real and powerful Estrogen in your body.

Not only that but you would have to drink gallons of the stuff every day to get a decent amount of Isoflavones to even begin to have any sort of minor effect. It's a moot point.

---

That said, the other benefits of Soy Protein (pulled straight from wikipedia)...

Soybeans are considered by many agencies to be a source of complete protein. A complete protein is one that contains significant amounts of all the essential amino acids that must be provided to the human body because of the body's inability to synthesize them. For this reason, soy is a good source of protein.

Soy protein products can be good substitutes for animal products because, unlike some other beans, soy offers a 'complete' protein profile. ... Soy protein products can replace animal-based foods—which also have complete proteins but tend to contain more fat, especially saturated fat. (Who needs high cholesterol?)

The gold standard for measuring protein quality, since 1990, is the Protein Digestibility Corrected Amino Acid Score (PDCAAS) & by this criterion soy protein is the nutritional equivalent of meat, eggs, & casein for human growth and health. Soybean protein isolate has a biological value of 74, whole soybeans 96, soybean milk 91, and eggs 97.

---

As a little side add on: If we are looking at global issues and challenges including feeding up to 9 Billion people (which we are not doing now).. Here's some food for thought:

Soybeans can produce at least twice as much protein per acre as any other major vegetable or grain crop, 5 to 10 times more protein per acre than land set aside for grazing animals to make milk, and up to 15 times more protein per acre than land set aside for meat production.

[Praetorian]

Yes, it does "mimic" estrogen but you're missing some key information on what is actually happening in the body physiologically.

Isoflavones are phytoestrogens found in plants or Soy products in this case. They have very mild estrogenic activity and can actually have an anti-estrogenic effects so yes, it does "Mimic" estrogen, but Isoflavones or Phytoestrogens have a much weaker effect than the powerful estrogen your body naturally produces.

The weak phytoestrogens compete for the same receptor sites as the estrogen your body produces. This is why the Soy Isoflavones can actually have an anti-estrogenic effect on you. Especially if you're taking Test and it's converting to real and powerful Estrogen in your body.

Not only that but you would have to drink gallons of the stuff every day to get a decent amount of Isoflavones to even begin to have any sort of minor effect. It's a moot point.

---

That said, the other benefits of Soy Protein (pulled straight from wikipedia)...

Soybeans are considered by many agencies to be a source of complete protein. A complete protein is one that contains significant amounts of all the essential amino acids that must be provided to the human body because of the body's inability to synthesize them. For this reason, soy is a good source of protein.

Soy protein products can be good substitutes for animal products because, unlike some other beans, soy offers a 'complete' protein profile. ... Soy protein products can replace animal-based foods—which also have complete proteins but tend to contain more fat, especially saturated fat. (Who needs high cholesterol?)

The gold standard for measuring protein quality, since 1990, is the Protein Digestibility Corrected Amino Acid Score (PDCAAS) & by this criterion soy protein is the nutritional equivalent of meat, eggs, & casein for human growth and health. Soybean protein isolate has a biological value of 74, whole soybeans 96, soybean milk 91, and eggs 97.


Men should avoid soy...and dairy does not make you soft...its the lactose that causes issues...its a sugar which can lead to water retention as well as digestion issues for many who cannot digest it very well.

P

[Zylo]

Men should avoid soy...

And the reason?

Most Asian cultures including their men consume soy products on a daily basis their entire lives. They have some of the longest life spans with the lowest cases of cancers and heart disease.

There have been studies which have shown mega doses of Soy in a mans diet can have some negative effects but it has to be appreciated that they were mega doses on a daily basis.... Up to 30x's what someone would probably ingest.

There are tons of health benefits of soy products. I would say moderation is the key.

[BigWheel]

And the reason?

its estrogenic

[BigWheel]

To the OP have tou ever tried greek yougurt, its a nice change. the liberty brand I buy at costco has 20g protein, 6g carb and 0 fat per 175g and it tastes ok too.

[bcaamuscle]

**** that i'll drink soy for the rest of my life rather than drink that chemical soup they call cow milk!!

[Zylo]

its estrogenic

Very Mildly.... Much weaker than the estrogen your own body produces.

Phyto's can have an ANTI-Estrogenic effect on your body.

[George]

I've heard a few times that it would be the lactose that would cause thicker skin. Apparently, allot of people are allergic to it and even people that aren't probably would benefit from cutting it. I personally haven't read the research concerning lactose but I do look more cut and feel better when I take it out of my diet.

Yogurt, cottage cheese and cheese are much lower in lactose then milk

[O-Train]

Anyone care to provide some evidence that milk in Canada is so harmful and toxic? It's highly regulated and tested so I'll just assume (like usual) that people don't know how to read properly and feel like paying way more for organic. Good for you...saving the planet one glass at a time...

[nisser]

And the reason?

Most Asian cultures including their men consume soy products on a daily basis their entire lives. They have some of the longest life spans with the lowest cases of cancers and heart disease.

There have been studies which have shown mega doses of Soy in a mans diet can have some negative effects but it has to be appreciated that they were mega doses on a daily basis.... Up to 30x's what someone would probably ingest.

There are tons of health benefits of soy products. I would say moderation is the key.

If you want to look like the average asian boy, then by all means, eat all the soy you want.

[nisser]

Very Mildly.... Much weaker than the estrogen your own body produces.

Phyto's can have an ANTI-Estrogenic effect on your body.

You are talking out of your ass here. Yea, of course its weaker than estrogen but then again your body does not produce that much estrogen to begin with so flushing your system with soy isn't a smart idea.

There's a reason physicians tell women with breast cancer/history of breast cancer to stay away from soy and it's not because they have stocks in the dairy Canadian corporations. (hint: it mimics estrogen)

[Praetorian]

Anyone care to provide some evidence that milk in Canada is so harmful and toxic? It's highly regulated and tested so I'll just assume (like usual) that people don't know how to read properly and feel like paying way more for organic. Good for you...saving the planet one glass at a time...

The problem is not associated with the milk specifically it is from the cows that produce the milk. Years ago milk was produced from dairy cows which were fed grass and that lived on farms and grazed in the pasture. Nowadays dairy being the big business it is....cows are raised in feedlots standing in their own feces, fed grain and corn, given hormones rBGH to produce more milk, and antibiotics to fight off infections caused from their living conditions. All of this is passed on to the milk which humans intake...not good. The life expectancy of these cows is 3 years before they are slaughtered and sold as the lowest form of beef available.
Grass fed beef, naturally raised in the pasture, hormone free is the way to go if you are going to drink milk.
P

[ironwill]

You are talking out of your ass here. Yea, of course its weaker than estrogen but then again your body does not produce that much estrogen to begin with so flushing your system with soy isn't a smart idea.

There's a reason physicians tell women with breast cancer/history of breast cancer to stay away from soy and it's not because they have stocks in the dairy Canadian corporations. (hint: it mimics estrogen)

Thank-you.....:D

[Winnipeg Muscle]

Soy is the Antichrist. Stay away or risk burning in hell with the phsique of a 12 year old boy! :)

[O-Train]

The problem is not associated with the milk specifically it is from the cows that produce the milk. Years ago milk was produced from dairy cows which were fed grass and that lived on farms and grazed in the pasture. Nowadays dairy being the big business it is....cows are raised in feedlots standing in their own feces, fed grain and corn, given hormones rBGH to produce more milk, and antibiotics to fight off infections caused from their living conditions. All of this is passed on to the milk which humans intake...not good. The life expectancy of these cows is 3 years before they are slaughtered and sold as the lowest form of beef available.
Grass fed beef, naturally raised in the pasture, hormone free is the way to go if you are going to drink milk.
P

Just to be clear for everyone, all milk in Canada is free of hormones and antibiotics. Dairy cows live in clean, sometimes fully automated barns, not feedlots. Dairy is big business, you need millions just to get started so they are going to look after the animals.

Organic milk is not produced from grass fed cows. I guess it could be, but it doesn't need to be and anything bought in the store won't be. It is produced from cows that consume organically grown feed. That's it, that's all. There is no difference between organic and regular milk aside from the price.

I'm not even sure how a dairy cow could graze year round in Canada. It does tend to snow. Although I do know what you're getting at Praetorian and I agree that would be ideal but my family goes through about 16L/wk so I can't afford ideals...or my own cow :).

[moh2010]

Just to be clear for everyone, all milk in Canada is free of hormones and antibiotics. Dairy cows live in clean, sometimes fully automated barns, not feedlots. Dairy is big business, you need millions just to get started so they are going to look after the animals.

Organic milk is not produced from grass fed cows. I guess it could be, but it doesn't need to be and anything bought in the store won't be. It is produced from cows that consume organically grown feed. That's it, that's all. There is no difference between organic and regular milk aside from the price.

I'm not even sure how a dairy cow could graze year round in Canada. It does tend to snow. Although I do know what you're getting at Praetorian and I agree that would be ideal but my family goes through about 16L/wk so I can't afford ideals...or my own cow :).

According to a study I saw, Canadian dairy has four times the CLA content as American dairy.

[Praetorian]

Just to be clear for everyone, all milk in Canada is free of hormones and antibiotics. Dairy cows live in clean, sometimes fully automated barns, not feedlots. Dairy is big business, you need millions just to get started so they are going to look after the animals.

Organic milk is not produced from grass fed cows. I guess it could be, but it doesn't need to be and anything bought in the store won't be. It is produced from cows that consume organically grown feed. That's it, that's all. There is no difference between organic and regular milk aside from the price.

I'm not even sure how a dairy cow could graze year round in Canada. It does tend to snow. Although I do know what you're getting at Praetorian and I agree that would be ideal but my family goes through about 16L/wk so I can't afford ideals...or my own cow :).

Agreed Canada has a much better system the the US...my post is mainly referring to the US operations. A cow wouldnt graze year round in the pasture in Canada but would be kept in barns in the winter...this still doesnt keep farmers from feeding them corn and grain. As long as they are on a diet of grass the milk produced will be a much better product. Canadian meat and food supplies are much healthier than the US mainly because they are produced here for the end consumer and not fats food companies as in the US.
P

[ironwill]

Just to be clear for everyone, all milk in Canada is free of hormones and antibiotics. Dairy cows live in clean, sometimes fully automated barns, not feedlots. Dairy is big business, you need millions just to get started so they are going to look after the animals.

Organic milk is not produced from grass fed cows. I guess it could be, but it doesn't need to be and anything bought in the store won't be. It is produced from cows that consume organically grown feed. That's it, that's all. There is no difference between organic and regular milk aside from the price.

I'm not even sure how a dairy cow could graze year round in Canada. It does tend to snow. Although I do know what you're getting at Praetorian and I agree that would be ideal but my family goes through about 16L/wk so I can't afford ideals...or my own cow :).
Very good post O-train, being that im a farmer from my roots, i have many friends that own dairies, i worked on many, they are extremely, extremely clean facilities.....Very good feed systems also...Its pretty amazing actually...You could live in there...The care these cows get are second to none...Regular vet visits, They live fairly long existences, Great food supply, etc....It is unreal.....

[Praetorian]

Agreed Canada has a much better system the the US...my post is mainly referring to the US operations. A cow wouldnt graze year round in the pasture in Canada but would be kept in barns in the winter...this still doesnt keep farmers from feeding them corn and grain. As long as they are on a diet of grass the milk produced will be a much better product. Canadian meat and food supplies are much healthier than the US mainly because they are produced here for the end consumer and not for fast food companies as in the US.\\
P

,,

[ta-kid]

WELL Iworked on dairy farms in Ontario back in the early 70,s and even then they were clean operations and in the summer the cattle were put out to pasture and usually fed corn and alalpha siliage in the winter wih some grain.It may of changed somewhat since then,but the real issue is the pasterizing of the milk ,losing a lot of the enzymes and some nutrients during the heat process.Raw milk was the secret food of early bodybuilders and I drank my share in my early years.Too bad its not avaliable much anymore.
I remember in my early training years meeting Tom Mcgee if any of you remember him.I hear he lives in California now ,but a news story ran on him here in Vancouver back in the early 80,s and he was asked,what was his basic nutrition regime.He opened his fridge and it was top to bottom MILK.

[warlock]

After a food intolerance test done cow's milk came positive.
For the past 3 months I erased cow's milk and its derivatives off my diet I don't feel better or worse. I don't go crazy about it as well if for some reason there is cheese in my food I put aside and don't eat, If I go to a coffee shop I have a bit of milk in my beverage and that's it.
I still have goat's cheese and use organic basmati rice beverage in my tea.
It makes no sense an adult drinking milk (cheese is concentrated/processed milk) it makes less sense to have milk from another species and make seven less sense to go crazy and have too much of any type of food, that's selective nutrient deficiency.

[red rocket]

After a food intolerance test done cow's milk came positive.
For the past 3 months I erased cow's milk and its derivatives off my diet I don't feel better or worse. I don't go crazy about it as well if for some reason there is cheese in my food I put aside and don't eat, If I go to a coffee shop I have a bit of milk in my beverage and that's it.
I still have goat's cheese and use organic basmati rice beverage in my tea.
It makes no sense an adult drinking milk (cheese is concentrated/processed milk) it makes less sense to have milk from another species and make seven less sense to go crazy and have too much of any type of food, that's selective nutrient deficiency.


Well I for one would rather drink milk from a cow, then go around and ask breast feeding women for a drink.

I deffinately feel bloat from dairy, icecream is the worst, but I know there are alot of extra ingerdients there. Even with whey I feel bloat. I wouldnt go as far as to say I get the runs, like a lactose intolerant friend of mine, but would lactaid help with the bloating issue.

I just find it hard to not have atleast a shake per day, especially when the diet gets really strict.

[monkey]

I've heard many people ( bodybuilder or not) argue for or against milk... BUT, to me the only proof I need is my own experience.

The moment I add siginificant ( 1 - 2 liter) amounts of milk to my diet, I gain more muslce. Of course added calories are a factor, but its way easier for me to add extra milk then extra food.

Milk tastes good and has always served me very well when bulking. enough said.

[JifeLacket]

WELL Iworked on dairy farms in Ontario back in the early 70,s and even then they were clean operations and in the summer the cattle were put out to pasture and usually fed corn and alalpha siliage in the winter wih some grain.It may of changed somewhat since then,but the real issue is the pasterizing of the milk ,losing a lot of the enzymes and some nutrients during the heat process.Raw milk was the secret food of early bodybuilders and I drank my share in my early years.Too bad its not avaliable much anymore.
I remember in my early training years meeting Tom Mcgee if any of you remember him.I hear he lives in California now ,but a news story ran on him here in Vancouver back in the early 80,s and he was asked,what was his basic nutrition regime.He opened his fridge and it was top to bottom MILK.

Yea dairy cows are still very clean, my uncle was president of the OFA for 9 years (stepped down in 2008) and runs/is involved in some pretty huge operations. I wouldn't worry about canadian milk at all, at least ontario! Man i love the whole milk (4%) from the states though... mmmm

[BAM]

Well I for one would rather drink milk from a cow, then go around and suckle upon breast feeding women for a drink.


I disagree. I would rather have 100 lactating women in my barn than cows.

Fun and nutritious.