Competitive Body Building Judging- can someone explain

[fathead]

i will start by saying i know next to nothing about the technical aspects of bbing judging.

is there a link or anything to some info on how it works so i can wrap my mind around it a little better. can someone explain the following?

1) what percentage of the contest is decided in the prejudging (90%?) what role does the night show/routine play in reality?

2) is it scored "by pose". for example, do you get a score for front double biceps and a seperate score for lat spread? do you win/place on each pose (im thinking rounds like in boxing, you can barely win the first 8 rounds on the card, and get pummeled badly for the last 2 rounds and win the fight clearly on a score card)

3) within each pose, is there an emphasis placed on certain body parts or is it meant to be a total body judgment for each pose (basically if you have a wicked body part and a weak body part will you win certain poses and lose others or just do mediocre on all of them?) like on front double biceps are competitors trying to show their physique in a certain way to highlight certain things (im thinking flexed abs or inflated on certain poses etc)

4) is there a basic ratio for how a score is determined? (muscle size, shape, symmetry, conditioning... all worth 25% for example)

any other info or insight would be greatly appreciated. i have a feeling the answer is going to be "the sport is objective and there are pretty much no guidelines" which is going to be really annoying lol

thanks

[Delt King]

Very good questions indeed and enquiring minds would like to know...couple judges on here, Sean Summers, maybe SteveD.

[tiramisu]

The IFBB Rulebook... From what I can tell judges do not read this book and generally use a process that involves Gin and dice.

http://www.ifbb.com/amarules/IFBBRulebook_2006-2007Edition.pdf

1. In canada in the amateurs 100% of the contest is prejudging. The routine and evening is not included in the competitors score.

I don't know whether Canadian rules align with ifbb rule but the ifbb rulebook answers your questions for the pros.

[steve_d]

Not that I have judged many shows, but basically if you change the wording from

"the sport is objective and there are pretty much no guidelines"

to

"the sport is subjective and there are pretty much no guidelines"

You get your answer.

Indirectly though, as a judge you basically have to weigh all those question in your mind fairly quickly and make your own judgment call. Some have different methods of getting the answer then others. In a large class, a judge might first rank them as As, Bs, or Cs, in groups under their first impression and then go from there to start ranking poses. Usually in local shows it won't go down to "he's got this pose, the other guy has that pose". Most instances there is a clear winner. Even at national level shows you get clear separation between 1st, 2nd and 3rd. However, when it is close, this is where the subjectivity comes in. Do I like symmetry? Do I favor cuts? Do I favor size? Perhaps 1 guys is better in symmetry AND cuts, and still doesn't win. So its not a "best 2 out of three call". Maybe they just edged them out in symmetry and cuts, but REALLY lost in size.

The subjectivity comes in again when 1 judge may feel cuts is crucial, and even if you have complete balance and size, if you don't have the cuts - too bad. But then other judges may not feel this way...Th symmetry and size may in fact pull them to the top.

In the IFBB rulebook, there are actually very funny things in there stating that even in bodybuilding, scars, and skin imperfections will cause you to be "marked down". Again, subjectivity comes in...how far will that scar coming down your abs hurt you? Enough to lose even though you were better in all respects? Perhaps in 1 judges mind, not the other. Depends how close they feel the rest is I suppose.

Personally, I find alot of judging is based on a first impression. Standing relaxed is 1 of the most important "poses" in bodybuilding. It can make or break you. I am a little less harsh when it comes to a not as good standing relaxed. Some guys may not have that "wow" factor, yet when they pose, they look insance. I favor all poses equally, but a front bicep pose is not all about biceps. Its about how everything ties in. In a front bicep pose, I will look at abs, shoulders, legs, chest, obliques, lats, everything. Same with side chest for example. Its not just what your chest looks like. In the side chest and tricep pose, it is the only chance to see your leg depth from the side. So glutes, hams, calfs, are all just as important.

In the end, the judgment is very subjective. You couldn't say "he has better abs, arms, and chest, whereas the other guy has better legs, back, calf, and shoulders - therefore wins. Perhaps the other guy simply had the better overall package - which is what it all comes down to. And that package can REALLY be judged based on how you present it - which is why posing should never be neglected. We can only judge what you present. Too many people spend all their hours on cardio, when they could have made much better use of their time posing (and getting a good eye to help them) to figure out how best to display it.

PS: I should add that the answer to #1 is that the night show is not judged (in cbbf). In some cases there could be a tie in the morning, and they will re-judge. Overall winners are judged at night however. Routines are for the crowd. Other federations have different rules. Sometimes a rouine is judged. CBBF used to judge routines at the world qualifier, for maybe a couple years, but they since abandoned that. This isn't to say get the prejudging done, and pig out since it wont matter. You can hold out a couple more hours. Besides, you don't want the audience to boo when you win, but you look like garbage!

[fathead]

so do you get a score for each individual pose? or is it a single score for the entire package after seeing all poses?

[tiramisu]

1 score. Each judge ranks the competitors. In the IFBB there are 9 judges. The top 2 and bottom 2 scores are dropped such that the best score you can get for a round is 5 for example.

In the IFBB they now judge 2 rounds, morning and evening but not posing routine. In the CBBF they only judge the 1 morning round.

[steve_d]

so do you get a score for each individual pose? or is it a single score for the entire package after seeing all poses?

As mentioned, the "score" is simply a rank. They would then sum the scores over the 5 judges (after eliminating top and bottom scores). If you look at the cbbf website, you'll sometimes see they include the scores in the result section. For bodybuilding, if it was an easy call, you'll see 1st place with 5 points, 2nd with 10, 3rd with 15 and so on. (ie, straight 1s, straight 2s, etc).

In figure/fitness, it gets a little messier, since there are multiple rounds and so on.

When/if they ever annonce that there was only 1 point seperating 2 competitors, it could mean 1 had 3 2nds, 2 firsts, while the other had 2 2nds and 1 1st.

[japh]

Maybe the judges should have to start deliberating together much like a jury after a court case so they are at least on the same page when the placings are announced. "Experts" should be in agreement for it too be more valid I believe.

[steve_d]

Maybe the judges should have to start deliberating together much like a jury after a court case so they are at least on the same page when the placings are announced. "Experts" should be in agreement for it too be more valid I believe.

This is a good point...but would be hard to execute during a show. It would take way too long to have a discussion for any class that is not clear cut - and you'd likely have the same winners (most of the time). What could be done though is after the event, the judges have a mandatory meeting in which they could go over there results, go over the reasons why they chose who they chose, etc. Obviously judging a show is not a job though, and basically volunteered time. However, I would personally love to go through those types of exercises to make sure everyone is on the same page. I think it would only further increase the level of consistency in future shows as well. But again, there probably wouldn't be many volunteers willing to do all of that.

All of the above being more important for figure/fitness than anything else. Bodybuilding judging is quite consistent, and when there are discrepencies, its usually very understandable as to why.

[69challenger]

However, I would personally love to go through those types of exercises to make sure everyone is on the same page. I think it would only further increase the level of consistency in future shows as well. But again, there probably wouldn't be many volunteers willing to do all of that.

All of the above being more important for figure/fitness than anything else. Bodybuilding judging is quite consistent, and when there are discrepencies, its usually very understandable as to why.


I'd like to go over scores as well. I think it could be done during the LONG breaks between the morning and evening shows.

[tiramisu]

What I would love to see is scoring by pose with a live scoreboard similar to gymnasts or divers. It would give the competitors and audience more feedback, and make the judges do their job. Too often you see them looking somewhere else.

[natenator]

What I would love to see is scoring by pose with a live scoreboard similar to gymnasts or divers. It would give the competitors and audience more feedback, and make the judges do their job. Too often you see them looking somewhere else.
you'd look elsewhere too if judging figure and their thousand quarter turns plus multiple outfit rounds. Talk about a snooze fest

[physique]

you'd look elsewhere too if judging figure and their thousand quarter turns plus multiple outfit rounds. Talk about a snooze fest

depends what they look like. hotter the girl the more i want to watch. kinda like beach volleyball or figure skating. lol

[tiramisu]

Bodybuilding is one of the few events when the women come out on stage in their underwear the guys head out to find a coffee. Definitely gay.

[Delt King]

Bodybuilding is one of the few events when the women come out on stage in their underwear the guys head out to find a coffee. Definitely gay.

:laugh