R.C.M.P Arrest Waterloo man for selling streroids!

[Mr Ontario]

http://news.therecord.com/News/Local/article/335224

[Mr.Freeze]

wow
weird i feel safer now.:wtf

[Freebsd1977]

The DEA is not the only brainwashed org.

[shithead]

Wow.

[IronRobi]

Hmmm they're making reference to "operation jellybean" which hit hard in new brunswick and other maritime provinces... I wonder how this has anything to do with waterloo, ontario almost 11 months later

[IronRobi]

nvm... I know the connection now. My opinion, this guy is screwed. I don't think we are done seeing the backlash from operation jellybean that has now arrested over 20 individuals, caused investigations into multiple businesses, and has even uncovered some members of the rcmp who were "dirty". As the investigation continues, there is bound to be more information that comes out. Be careful guys, and stay smart. This is all too close to home for comfort.

[Canadian Bodybuilding]

Damn :( You guys might have missed it but look at the November bust. 18 people.



Which lab was this other one?

[Kronis]

Not cool, bump for more info as it comes.

[BolicPower]

Crazy

[MuSuLPhReAk]

Ouch. Not a good time to play with AAS imo.

[faller]

Finally my tax dollars at work. :(

[RagingRandy]

This is insane. You have to wonder how much they spent to seize $60,000 worth of goods. Of course that figure is inflated to make them look better. It seems to me resources would be better spent tracking down the crack dealers that really pose a threat to people and society. Cigarettes and booze have a greater negative effect than steroids but the government is "hooked" on the proceeds not unlike gambling. Maybe if they taxed steroids so they got their cut they would leave them alone. Our government is just another form of organized crime. "F"ing pisses me off.

[phatkid77]

Teragon was 2-3mnths ago i believe...

i also "heard" AXIO just got done in....scary times 4 sure

operation jellybean/ RAWDEAL in the states....HUGE

professionalmuscle.com/forums/showthread.php?t=34442

[MuSuLPhReAk]

Time for UG labs to really question whether it's time to shut down. Canada had a big amount of ug labs a while back and now it seems like a ghost town.

[IronRobi]

Teragon was 2-3mnths ago i believe...

i also "heard" AXIO just got done in....scary times 4 sure

operation jellybean/ RAWDEAL in the states....HUGE



Jellybean was mainly focused in Fredericton, NB. Rawdeal was the big one that spanned through the states/canada/mexico and that's the one that took down teragon.

[MuSuLPhReAk]

Any links to jellybean?

[phatkid77]

i just googled it........ last arrest was may 2007.... im sure there is "info" beeing ratted behind closed doors....aka , deals

[wuboy25]

I am almost positive that Teragon was busted because of the jellybean operation... but at the same time as Raw deal.

Operation jellybean seized mostly Syrus products, Syrus and Teragon beeing linked, they made there way up from there...

[shithead]

Teragon was busted because he was exporting to the US.

[MuSuLPhReAk]

Teragon was busted in Oct of 2007.

[shithead]

Right after operation "Raw Deal"

[St]

Teragon was busted because he was exporting to the US.


Yes 100%.

[IronRobi]

Any links to jellybean?

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/new-brunswick/story/2007/01/26/nb-jellybean.html

http://www.moncton.net/forum/7/102667/ShowThread.aspx

Scroll down to 2007/12/21 (about 3/4 of the way down) to view a list of all charges that were laid.

[grifter]

It seems that most of these arrest uncover rec drugs as well. The rec drugs are probably what attracts LE in the first place. People gotta stop being so greedy.

[Mr Ontario]

Yup! Agreed.

It seems that most of these arrest uncover rec drugs as well. The rec drugs are probably what attracts LE in the first place. People gotta stop being so greedy.

[Kronis]

It seems that most of these arrest uncover rec drugs as well. The rec drugs are probably what attracts LE in the first place. People gotta stop being so greedy.

agreed. I think if guys would lay low and not mess with the higher scheduled substances you wouldn't be seeing these busts every couple months.

[BolicPower]

From what i can see it's like a Pyramid, they fnd your computer and /or info one says (rats) and then gets THEM, again and again, keeps moving, Computers and phones are biggest enemy.

Oh, on a good note, RIGHT in front of gym some kids were selling coke. Guess our tax dollar doing good work. As they MUST go hand in hand

Just like a memeber ( i forget who said) it's about amount of people, and normaly gear busts are safe. and you'll get a bunch, but coke,meth, etc you'll maybe get 2-3 so dont' look as good to public, something that WILL mess your life? or something that will help YOU make yourself be confident and happy.

[Kronis]

From what i can see it's like a Pyrimid, they fnd your computer and /or info one says and then gets THEM, into, again. Computers and phones are biggest enemy.

i found a program called PGP Desktop Professional that has an application to PGP encrypt your entire hard-drive; just sayin.

I haven't done it yet, i really just got it for the PGP emails but thought it was a cool option for the paranoid or legally-grey.

you can find it on torrentz.com

[Namelessone]

I think any source that insists on dealing rec drugs like coke, meth etc deserves to be popped. Lets face is there is a ton of money to be had in steroid sales. When you start dealing drugs that are 100% confirmed to kill you then your asking to be popped.

Some of the guys from ORD were even up on weapons charges. I mean com'on guys, this is just being stupid.

[MuSuLPhReAk]

Just don't do and drugs and you'll always be safe ;)
I don't have any encryption and don't use any encrypted emails as I don't use the net for any illegal activity. I sleep good at night.

[Namelessone]

Just don't do and drugs and you'll always be safe ;)
I don't have any encryption and don't use any encrypted emails as I don't use the net for any illegal activity. I sleep good at night.

no offense but dude that avatar should be against the law... lol

[MuSuLPhReAk]

lol...you'll never forget that face :D

[Namelessone]

lol...you'll never forget that face :D

I know, I wake up in cold sweats at night thinking its the Tren then realized I was having a nightmare about that damn mullet... LMAO!

[Grunt76]

It seems that most of these arrest uncover rec drugs as well. The rec drugs are probably what attracts LE in the first place. People gotta stop being so greedy.

I agree.

Actually, the arrest linked to in the first post is the ONLY ONE to my knowledge that is purely Canadian and relates to only AAS and no other illegal activities. Up til now, busts happened out of guys dealing in recs or ... child porn was it? Or other crap such as exporting to our neighbors to the south. Which, well if you think about it, 10cc test goes for $** here and about $** in the USA, WTF is wrong with those people? Anyway... But largely, the steroids business was left alone.

That makes things even scarier IMO.

[MassNutrition]

It seems that most of these arrest uncover rec drugs as well. The rec drugs are probably what attracts LE in the first place. People gotta stop being so greedy.

I totally agree as well. Illusion Labs got busted a while back not because of rec drugs or roids, but because of child porn... THATS a fact! I still have the news article. Its everything else that attracts LE, and not so much the gear itself, unless you're "big time" like BD and Denkall was...

[Mr.Freeze]

grunt pricing is against the rules so..

[Mr.Freeze]

child porn..
Whats wrong with people???

[grifter]

AXIO is NOT done in. it's been confirmed BS couple days ago

Yes I heard this today as well and that another from the past will be resurfacing

[Strateg0s]

I totally agree as well. Illusion Labs got busted a while back not because of rec drugs or roids, but because of child porn... THATS a fact! I still have the news article. Its everything else that attracts LE, and not so much the gear itself, unless you're "big time" like BD and Denkall was...No, he didn't get busted because of child porn... from what has been said, he was busted because the bikers targeted in Operation Jellybean for cocaine and ephedrine sales were huge customers of Illusion. What they found after they arrested him, that's some sick shit (if it's true), but it isn't WHY they arrested him.

I assume this Waterloo guy is just some local gym-dealer who bought himself a bunch of tablets. They say they seized about 10,000 tablets, no mention of injectibles... for all we know that could mean it was equivalent to a grand total of 50g of dianabol or some combination of things up to maybe 500g of anadrol total. In any case, they make it sound like a colossal bust, when in fact, it's probably not at all.

[shithead]

I thought WW was cool too, but we really dont know anyone......do we?

[bigben]

What a damn waste of Law enforcement time to pursue sources selling only steroids. What is the possible harm to the public? They've never been able to prove roid rage, so worst case scenario for a male steroid user is gyno and being shut down. Long term, it might shorten your life. Well so does smoking, drinking or over eating. Hardly something belonging in the realm of criminal activity. I think one of our greatest enemies is sports organizations. They pursue the issue of drugs in sports like its a public matter. Its their problem to enforce their rules, plain and simple. Not a matter for law enforcement.

[shithead]

Nope, illusion is a piece of shit, he ratted on everyone he could. Yes, i have friends in high places.

Are they standing on a ledge?

[Mr Ontario]

Ya! I would say that's scary shit! If your going to deal and make the $$ then you need to take the fall for it!


Nope, illusion is a piece of shit, he ratted on everyone he could. Yes, i have friends in high places.

[Freebsd1977]

Right after operation "Raw Deal"

Why name these operations after Swartznegger movies??? :hu

[champcar99]

Ya! I would say that's scary shit! If your going to deal and make the $$ then you need to take the fall for it!

You wont believe how many ****in people you think are the coolest straight up dudes will turn on you when pressured with "you know how much time you looking at" about 90 percent ...I know everyone can sit here and say I would never RAT but chances are they or you will...thats how the cops do their job, their is no shortage of rats or people looking to get off charges.

[Bowlcut]

Considering the pedos and rapists get next to no time in prison I would gladly not rat anyone out and take my 2 year suspended sentence and keep my dignity and honor.
Canseco may be right but he is still a rat and I have no respect for people who knowingly break the law and act tough while things are going good but as soon as they get a little heat they take it on their knees.

[Mr.Freeze]

100%right

[Mr Ontario]

No Bro..... Your wrong you can't speak for everyone else. I would never Rat on nobody! It all depends on the person. 90% is a high stat. would you be one of those 90%?


You wont believe how many ****in people you think are the coolest straight up dudes will turn on you when pressured with "you know how much time you looking at" about 90 percent ...I know everyone can sit here and say I would never RAT but chances are they or you will...thats how the cops do their job, their is no shortage of rats or people looking to get off charges.

[Namelessone]

Have you seen the photos of some of these guys busted in ORD? Most of them even look like rats. The funny thing is prior to the busts I always assumed these guys were big, experienced gym boys. Most of them were fat or skinny crackhead looking dealers.

Grant it I know looks shouldn't matter just saying.

I also disagree with the 90% comment. I know I would take my time and serve it with pride knowing I didn't give in and rat everyone out. Hell, in Canada our laws are so lenient you'd probably get a slap on the wrist for dealing NON-LETHAL performance enhancing drugs.

[champcar99]

No Bro..... Your wrong you can't speak for everyone else. I would never Rat on nobody! It all depends on the person. 90% is a high stat. would you be one of those 90%?

Dude I have been and seen alot of people go down and we all went down because of rats or in some cases jealousy , One thing I know I trust no one and this is because I ****IN KNOW BETTER.. And no dude I am not "one of those 90 % " I have seen the inside of a courtroom few too many times..
" I would never Rat on nobody" thats funny thats the first thing they say when they get busted ratting.....Ontario when someone is looking at going to JAIL ,not probation, not house arrest, but locked up, you will be suprised how many people turn on you..Ontario explain to me where the cops get all their information from to make all the drug busts..#1 reason RATS...dude I am not calling you a rat but my point is anyone anytime can rat you out..

[Mr Ontario]

Good investigative skills by the police. Your assuming everything started and ended with someone rating someone out. Your watching to much DEA lol J/K

But would be curious as to whether any of them get jail time for dealing steroids.


Dude I have been and seen alot of people go down and we all went down because of rats or in some cases jealousy , One thing I know I trust no one and this is because I ****IN KNOW BETTER.. And no dude I am not "one of those 90 % " I have seen the inside of a courtroom few too many times..
" I would never Rat on nobody" thats funny thats the first thing they say when they get busted ratting.....Ontario when someone is looking at going to JAIL ,not probation, not house arrest, but locked up, you will be suprised how many people turn on you..Ontario explain to me where the cops get all their information from to make all the drug busts..#1 reason RATS...dude I am not calling you a rat but my point is anyone anytime can rat you out..

[champcar99]

Good investigative skills by the police. Your assuming everything started and ended with someone rating someone out. Your watching to much DEA lol J/K

But would be curious as to whether any of them get jail time for dealing steroids.

"Good investagation skills" .too funny.. Dude you should of been there listening to the cops explain their "Good investagation skills" just before the judge tossed out the search warrant wich in turn all charges where dropped..
"Good investagation skills" thats funny...



"Your assuming everything started and ended with someone rating someone out" most drug cases bro ... the paticulars in all cases will explian eveything you need to know as to what was said, location when it was said, time it was said, but all information about the "informant' will be blacked out..

[shithead]

"Good investagation skills" .too funny.. Dude you should of been there listening to the cops explain their "Good investagation skills" just before the judge tossed out the search warrant wich in turn all charges where dropped..
"Good investagation skills" thats funny...



"Your assuming everything started and ended with someone rating someone out" most drug cases bro ... the paticulars in all cases will explian eveything you need to know as to what was said, location when it was said, time it was said, but all information about the "informant' will be blacked out..

Sounds like you've been busted before. lol

I agree, there's lotsa rats. They are snakes in the grass. I wouldnt say 90%.

[champcar99]

"But would be curious as to whether any of them get jail time for dealing steroids."

I would believe that if you are repeat offender you would probably, but first time charge NO... probably not until like 3 rd time.. Canada doesnt have enough jails to hold all criminals but from what I have read... the gov have increased budgets to build more jails and are talking minimum sentencing coming soon...

[champcar99]

Sounds like you've been busted before. lol

I agree, there's lotsa rats. They are snakes in the grass. I wouldnt say 90%.

maybe my numbers might be high because of my trust issues, "I TRUST NO ONE" i would think maybe around 80 % ..But also dudes I am not talking about people getting busted for small charges I am talking people looking at time..

[Kronis]

If people would just keep quiet and speak to a lawyer before saying ANYTHING they wouldn't need to rat people out. Most people incriminate themselves, if you just keep quiet they either won't have a case or you'll get about the same sentence as somebody who rolls over but you won't bring anyone down with you.

[Mr Ontario]

No! I wasn't there lol...not sure why anyone would be there in court unless they had direct connection to these people or it was one of there friends being charged!


"Good investagation skills" .too funny.. Dude you should of been there listening to the cops explain their "Good investagation skills" just before the judge tossed out the search warrant wich in turn all charges where dropped..
"Good investagation skills" thats funny...



"Your assuming everything started and ended with someone rating someone out" most drug cases bro ... the paticulars in all cases will explian eveything you need to know as to what was said, location when it was said, time it was said, but all information about the "informant' will be blacked out..

[champcar99]

No! I wasn't there lol...not sure why anyone would be there in court unless they had direct connection to these people or it was one of there friends being charged!

I was referring to the comment you made ""Good investagation skills" and then you would of seen first hand the ""Good investagation skills" that got all my charges dropped within the first 2 hours of a four day trial..."Good investagation skills" ...hahahaha ...Not that I want you to go hangout in courtroom dude..nothing fun about being there..lol..lol..unless you leave a WINNER...:laugh

[IronRobi]

I'm with champ on this one. Trust NO ONE. It's crazy how when pressured people will spill it all. You can even get it to happen when they aren't facing jail time because they'll tell everything before they even realize what they've done.

[kawikaratekid]

Considering the pedos and rapists get next to no time in prison I would gladly not rat anyone out and take my 2 year suspended sentence and keep my dignity and honor.
Canseco may be right but he is still a rat and I have no respect for people who knowingly break the law and act tough while things are going good but as soon as they get a little heat they take it on their knees.

I agree with you on both points. You probably won't even see two years anyways....
Canseco is a bum. I can't believe he ratted on all these athletes. They use to be his boy and kept his secret for him. Now he sticks it to them years down the road to make some money by selling the info. I'm really surprised he isn't dead yet to be honest with you. He's really screwing up things for all athletes!!
Canseco was on the Best Damn Sports Show Period the other night and he was getting chirped pretty hard from the guys on the show. They basically called him a piece of sh*t, but professionally on the air.

[kawikaratekid]

I find it hard to believe that Law Enforcement is so worried about these UG labs creating a product that they use. I personally know guys that are on and have tin. Hell Ronnie Coleman is a cop but of course all the stuff that he took was "doctor prescribed" so it's legit lol....

[Mr Ontario]

Double standards no doubt.....but its the higher ups who are enforcing such laws...the ones who some GH and a little test! lol


I find it hard to believe that Law Enforcement is so worried about these UG labs creating a product that they use. I personally know guys that are on and have tin. Hell Ronnie Coleman is a cop but of course all the stuff that he took was "doctor prescribed" so it's legit lol....

[tony_canuck]

rats or not, this really is crazy to believe that anyone thinks society is safer because a bunch of dbol is off our streets....

[champcar99]

brainwashing..it happens all the time...look at the states, the biggest ****in believers in bullshit, **** look who's been pres for 8 years a ****in war criminal.. :wtf

[physique]

brainwashing..it happens all the time...look at the states, the biggest ****in believers in bullshit, **** look who's been pres for 8 years a ****in war criminal.. :wtf

brainwashing canadian style reminds me of what happened here today.



what a joke

[Grunt76]

brainwashing canadian style reminds me of what happened here today.



what a joke

Oh the bullshit.

And... Damn bro, your avy is plain driving me ****ing nuts... :(

[Freebsd1977]

"But would be curious as to whether any of them get jail time for dealing steroids."

I would believe that if you are repeat offender you would probably, but first time charge NO... probably not until like 3 rd time.. Canada doesnt have enough jails to hold all criminals but from what I have read... the gov have increased budgets to build more jails and are talking minimum sentencing coming soon...

Beautiful Kingston does :mock

[phatkid77]

TRUE IF SENTENCED TO MORE THAN 2 YRS...

it takes that long for the case to go to trial however..

phats

[ManInTheBox]

Canada doesnt have enough jails to hold all criminals but from what I have read... the gov have increased budgets to build more jails and are talking minimum sentencing coming soon...

I hate this irrational conservative belief that more bars+more cops+more laws+more jail = less crime. We've follwed the classical theory of crime control forever and its been proven by countless contemporaries that it does not work!. Longer sentences, especially for first-time offenders, only makes better and more efficient criminals once released into the general population.

I'm a big believer in restorative justice. Sadly, politicians just don't get the message.

[trykillthis]

CRIME - PUNISHMENT = ANARCHY

Lets bring back the death penalty and make some fuken room.

[gustavo77]

CRIME - PUNISHMENT = ANARCHY

Lets bring back the death penalty and make some fuken room.

Smartest thing i heard all day..

[kawikaratekid]

brainwashing canadian style reminds me of what happened here today.



what a joke

That is a joke. Just making it look like they're doing something to help the people.

[kawikaratekid]

I hate this irrational conservative belief that more bars+more cops+more laws+more jail = less crime. We've follwed the classical theory of crime control forever and its been proven by countless contemporaries that it does not work!. Longer sentences, especially for first-time offenders, only makes better and more efficient criminals once released into the general population.

I'm a big believer in restorative justice. Sadly, politicians just don't get the message.

That's a touchy subject. Some will get out and be productive members of society and not re-offend. Others will get the chance and violate parole because jail is a better place for them. Good drugs, free food, free roof over there head, sports, t.v., dentists and physiotherapists. The harder American jails would be more of a deterrence for some of our common criminals who continue to re-offend.

[Bowlcut]

I say we bring back corporal punishment. Better to cane a deadbeat dad in the public than take him to court.

[Mr.Freeze]

Smartest thing i heard all day..

:laugh

[trykillthis]

Do the tent city jails like they have in Texas. Inmates wear pink and no AC. Lowest return
rate of all state prisons. Jail should have the bare necessities and thats it. The local regional jail here had a riot 1 or 2 years ago because they felt they didn't get enough pancakes for breakfast. Yeah, life is rough.

[champcar99]

they felt they didn't get enough pancakes for breakfast. Yeah, life is rough.

NOT ENOUGH PANCAKES WTF is wrong with the world when a ****in criminal can't get a decent plate of PANCAKES....LOL..****IN FUNNY

[ManInTheBox]

That's a touchy subject. Some will get out and be productive members of society and not re-offend. Others will get the chance and violate parole because jail is a better place for them. Good drugs, free food, free roof over there head, sports, t.v., dentists and physiotherapists. The harder American jails would be more of a deterrence for some of our common criminals who continue to re-offend.

It's only really a touchy subject because most people refuse to consider anything different than radical draconiansim. Look at the posts already.

The common belief that many offenders re-offend because prison is better than the outside world can only be attributed to archaic classical thought. All signs point that criminals are irrational beings, as pointed out by positivist criminological thought. The public tends to believe that all criminals had free will and rationally chose their path; however, this belief does not take into account the social environment and social structure that most criminals arise from. This belief is further fueled by the "success story" scenario, where an individual from the ghetto claws up and makes it big without resorting to crime. This results into many classical conservatives to say "Why can't they just stop bitching about poverty and be like that guy?". Honestly, for every 1 guy that manages to make it out of that setting through "acceptable" means, there are another 100 trying to claw their way up but continue to be dragged down by necessity and a vicious cycle of deviance.

Harder jails and more jail time, capitol punishment etc. do not serve as an effective deterrence. This is now fact among modern criminologists - theres a wealth of data revealing the high recidivism rates, particularly among young offenders with 60% of them having a prior record. The problem is that our methods of social control are inadequate. More assistance given to impovershed areas would help to provide alternatives to street crime and better support programs for offenders could help prevent them from viewing crime as a necessity when they are released.

Consider that it costs $42,000 a year to incarcerate an individual in a federal prison. Now picture saving half of that by pumping it into programs such as restorative justice (ie. victim offender mediations) and increasing the social structure of lower socio-economic areas. Ostensibly, the government could stand to save more money by just making things better in society.

Retribution cannot be the only method towards dealing with crime. Hell, the foundation of modern law is based around both retribution and rehabilitation - yet, our system while claiming to promote rehabilitation is lacking. Recognizing the priority of rehabilitation is paramount - it is better to aid one to become a productive member of society than lock them away forever and lose a potential gain. Otherwise, we are just locking people away and throwing them into the proverbial meatgrinder. Sure, it is impossible to rehabilitate the more dangerous members of society such as sociopaths and child molesters. Yet the dangerous sociopaths make up less than 10% of the prison population.

Please note that I do not discredit punishment. Punishment is a necessity if only by virtue of the fact that one must pay for their transgressions against the people and the state. All I'm trying to say is that there needs to be a balance between punishment/retribution and rehabilitation. As it stands, the scales are tipped towards the punishment side - and yet we still have crime, that is actually increasing as the years pass. Factor in the dark figure of crime (crime that goes unreported or unknown, estimated to be 58% of crime committed) and one can see that after 141 years since confederation, something different should at least be considered.


..............Sorry.. I tend to go on and on when I'm running tren ;)

[leeroy]

Good post.

[gustavo77]

Bump, nice post. I do agree that more focus and money of course should be placed at the root of the problem. The thing is that there will always be certain people who cannot be rehabbed and placed back on the street. Whether this is something that is innate or simply one's choice we can leave for psychologists/sociologists to debate till the end of time. Until then we need to find a better way to deal with unrecoverable individuals rather than clothe them and feed them and have them bitch about whether or not they get ****ing pancakes for breakfast...****..just flip the switch already..lol, j/k..

[Kronis]

It's only really a touchy subject because most people refuse to consider anything different than radical draconiansim. Look at the posts already.

The common belief that many offenders re-offend because prison is better than the outside world can only be attributed to archaic classical thought. All signs point that criminals are irrational beings, as pointed out by positivist criminological thought. The public tends to believe that all criminals had free will and rationally chose their path; however, this belief does not take into account the social environment and social structure that most criminals arise from. This belief is further fueled by the "success story" scenario, where an individual from the ghetto claws up and makes it big without resorting to crime. This results into many classical conservatives to say "Why can't they just stop bitching about poverty and be like that guy?". Honestly, for every 1 guy that manages to make it out of that setting through "acceptable" means, there are another 100 trying to claw their way up but continue to be dragged down by necessity and a vicious cycle of deviance.

Harder jails and more jail time, capitol punishment etc. do not serve as an effective deterrence. This is now fact among modern criminologists - theres a wealth of data revealing the high recidivism rates, particularly among young offenders with 60% of them having a prior record. The problem is that our methods of social control are inadequate. More assistance given to impovershed areas would help to provide alternatives to street crime and better support programs for offenders could help prevent them from viewing crime as a necessity when they are released.

Consider that it costs $42,000 a year to incarcerate an individual in a federal prison. Now picture saving half of that by pumping it into programs such as restorative justice (ie. victim offender mediations) and increasing the social structure of lower socio-economic areas. Ostensibly, the government could stand to save more money by just making things better in society.

Retribution cannot be the only method towards dealing with crime. Hell, the foundation of modern law is based around both retribution and rehabilitation - yet, our system while claiming to promote rehabilitation is lacking. Recognizing the priority of rehabilitation is paramount - it is better to aid one to become a productive member of society than lock them away forever and lose a potential gain. Otherwise, we are just locking people away and throwing them into the proverbial meatgrinder. Sure, it is impossible to rehabilitate the more dangerous members of society such as sociopaths and child molesters. Yet the dangerous sociopaths make up less than 10% of the prison population.

Please note that I do not discredit punishment. Punishment is a necessity if only by virtue of the fact that one must pay for their transgressions against the people and the state. All I'm trying to say is that there needs to be a balance between punishment/retribution and rehabilitation. As it stands, the scales are tipped towards the punishment side - and yet we still have crime, that is actually increasing as the years pass. Factor in the dark figure of crime (crime that goes unreported or unknown, estimated to be 58% of crime committed) and one can see that after 141 years since confederation, something different should at least be considered.


..............Sorry.. I tend to go on and on when I'm running tren ;)

How did you get a hold of the Criminology exam I just wrote??? :D

[Canadian Bodybuilding]

Give the man some good reputation. Great post!!

[kawikaratekid]

It's only really a touchy subject because most people refuse to consider anything different than radical draconiansim. Look at the posts already.

The common belief that many offenders re-offend because prison is better than the outside world can only be attributed to archaic classical thought. All signs point that criminals are irrational beings, as pointed out by positivist criminological thought. The public tends to believe that all criminals had free will and rationally chose their path; however, this belief does not take into account the social environment and social structure that most criminals arise from. This belief is further fueled by the "success story" scenario, where an individual from the ghetto claws up and makes it big without resorting to crime. This results into many classical conservatives to say "Why can't they just stop bitching about poverty and be like that guy?". Honestly, for every 1 guy that manages to make it out of that setting through "acceptable" means, there are another 100 trying to claw their way up but continue to be dragged down by necessity and a vicious cycle of deviance.

Harder jails and more jail time, capitol punishment etc. do not serve as an effective deterrence. This is now fact among modern criminologists - theres a wealth of data revealing the high recidivism rates, particularly among young offenders with 60% of them having a prior record. The problem is that our methods of social control are inadequate. More assistance given to impovershed areas would help to provide alternatives to street crime and better support programs for offenders could help prevent them from viewing crime as a necessity when they are released.

Consider that it costs $42,000 a year to incarcerate an individual in a federal prison. Now picture saving half of that by pumping it into programs such as restorative justice (ie. victim offender mediations) and increasing the social structure of lower socio-economic areas. Ostensibly, the government could stand to save more money by just making things better in society.

Retribution cannot be the only method towards dealing with crime. Hell, the foundation of modern law is based around both retribution and rehabilitation - yet, our system while claiming to promote rehabilitation is lacking. Recognizing the priority of rehabilitation is paramount - it is better to aid one to become a productive member of society than lock them away forever and lose a potential gain. Otherwise, we are just locking people away and throwing them into the proverbial meatgrinder. Sure, it is impossible to rehabilitate the more dangerous members of society such as sociopaths and child molesters. Yet the dangerous sociopaths make up less than 10% of the prison population.

Please note that I do not discredit punishment. Punishment is a necessity if only by virtue of the fact that one must pay for their transgressions against the people and the state. All I'm trying to say is that there needs to be a balance between punishment/retribution and rehabilitation. As it stands, the scales are tipped towards the punishment side - and yet we still have crime, that is actually increasing as the years pass. Factor in the dark figure of crime (crime that goes unreported or unknown, estimated to be 58% of crime committed) and one can see that after 141 years since confederation, something different should at least be considered.


..............Sorry.. I tend to go on and on when I'm running tren ;)

Great post and very good read...One quick note before I say some things. Surprisingly the costs of housing a criminal in the federal system for a year are well above $42,000. The amount is more then triple that....

The majority of criminals re-offend. Canadian jails do not deter criminals to come back. Cable television, excellent food (steak, chicken, fish, pretty much everything we have access to), allowance (even if you do nothing to earn it), sleep all day, and play organized sports to name a few. You can go to jail and do nothing what so ever and still be released early. How does this deter a criminal from returning? If I had nothing and lived in the "ghetto" or a trailer park and could barely afford to feed myself it sounds like the place to be. If I was homeless why not commit a crime. I'll have three squares and a warm place to sleep versus sleeping on the street. Only if jail wasn't so pleasant. Meals that were that were based on a strict daily caloric intake for inmates. No cable television in there cells. Wake up calls early in the morning. No sleeping during the day.

Don't get me wrong there are dangerous and reckless criminals that are in jail. I read a report on the Toronto Police Services website recently. This young man was walking with a few of his friends. They seen the police officers in the distance. As they approached them the young man began firing at the officers. Fortunately no one was injured at all. Said young man received four years. Multiple weapons charges and attempted murder but this is all he gets for a sentence. Now I doubt this young man is going to come out completely rehabilitated. My guess is he'll get into the sub culture within one of our fine institutions with relative ease because he'll be a hero. Well almost a hero because he didn't get the kill.

Fortunately the system works for some but just not enough though. The statistics that Canadian citizens see are some what fudged. If an offender gets out on statutory release or parole and re-offends this is not considered a new offense. It's considered a violation of his early release term. If this was considered a new crime instead of nothing at all it would greatly change the numbers.

I don't write near as well as ManintheBox but I hope I got a little information out there for you all.

[kawikaratekid]

You may change your tune when someone close to you is murdered for no reason and the person gets a manslaughter charge and six years. Think of those people. I could get a little more graphic but I don't think that is going to help. The people that criminals effect will have to live with this for the rest of there lives but the criminals will be able to start a new life once they serve there sentence.

[Grunt76]

Any assraping going on in canadian jails?

That would IMO be an element of "discomfort"... :eek:

[ManInTheBox]

You may change your tune when someone close to you is murdered for no reason and the person gets a manslaughter charge and six years. Think of those people. I could get a little more graphic but I don't think that is going to help. The people that criminals effect will have to live with this for the rest of there lives but the criminals will be able to start a new life once they serve there sentence.

Classic scenario that everyone places forth. You know what, if my daughter was raped by a gangbanger or was killed in a drive-by I probably would want blood in return. Such is a natural feeling for ANY human being, blood for blood is apparently in our nature.

Yet more questions lie beneath the scenes that require rejoinders that most give absolutely no thought. Where did the chain of causality originate from the offenders? Was the rapist molested or abused in the past by a family member? Was the drive-by shooter involved in the drug trade that was necessitated because he was born into a life of crime and poverty? There is always a reason for crime, even what seems to be murder for no reason.

Nobody will deny to predicate the necessity of punishment in such scenarios. The issue at hand is how we can obviate further crimes of analogous disposition.

It is a fallacy to make the supposition that criminals are given the opportunity to inaugurate a new life upon release from prison. Ever attempt to apply for a meaningful job as a convict? You'll ascertain that it is nearly unrealizable. The most a convict can anticipate is a position as a janitor in a less-than-favourable area. Now, you may say "serves them right, should of thought about that before you did xxx to Mr.Doe." While it is true it may be their penitence for transgression, all it serves to do is embolden them to further deviance. So, said convict cannot make a decent living for himself/family righteously; therefore, he turns to a more profitable career-crime.

So, you see, criminals never verily receive "fresh starts". Even if they repent and are rehabilitated they are branded by the public as miscreants, incapable of remorse or rectitude; a petechia that is likely to be unremitting.

Of special note I am perturbed by the mutual belief among the public that prison is a ****ing paradise. Honestly, how many people have actually been inside a prison? Sure there is shitty television, 100 year old weights and a malnutritious 3 meals a day. Yet, people make it seem like prison is about kicking back with a 2-4 of Heinekin while tokin' up a blunt with the Warden. Get real. The public also seriously misjudges the average Canadian's enjoyment of their freedom. Sure growing up in the 'hood is arduous and all; however, ask any brotha in the ghetto if he favors the joint or the street and you'll hear a resounding preference for the outside world.

Outside, you may be nobody but at least you're a man. In prison everone is a bitch - its just that some are bigger than others.

Another thing to note about the homeless person scenario is that the vast majority are mentally ill - I doubt they have the cranial capacity to realize that prison offers meals and a bed. However, I also don't put much faith into them wanting to be part of Bubba's SausageFest '08.

Again, I would like to clarify that I am not promoting that we relax laws and give criminals the Order of Canada, just refine the justice system by expunging Draconian ideals.

[kawikaratekid]

Classic scenario that everyone places forth. You know what, if my daughter was raped by a gangbanger or was killed in a drive-by I probably would want blood in return. Such is a natural feeling for ANY human being, blood for blood is apparently in our nature.

Yet more questions lie beneath the scenes that require rejoinders that most give absolutely no thought. Where did the chain of causality originate from the offenders? Was the rapist molested or abused in the past by a family member? Was the drive-by shooter involved in the drug trade that was necessitated because he was born into a life of crime and poverty? There is always a reason for crime, even what seems to be murder for no reason.

Nobody will deny to predicate the necessity of punishment in such scenarios. The issue at hand is how we can obviate further crimes of analogous disposition.

It is a fallacy to make the supposition that criminals are given the opportunity to inaugurate a new life upon release from prison. Ever attempt to apply for a meaningful job as a convict? You'll ascertain that it is nearly unrealizable. The most a convict can anticipate is a position as a janitor in a less-than-favourable area. Now, you may say "serves them right, should of thought about that before you did xxx to Mr.Doe." While it is true it may be their penitence for transgression, all it serves to do is embolden them to further deviance. So, said convict cannot make a decent living for himself/family righteously; therefore, he turns to a more profitable career-crime.

So, you see, criminals never verily receive "fresh starts". Even if they repent and are rehabilitated they are branded by the public as miscreants, incapable of remorse or rectitude; a petechia that is likely to be unremitting.

Of special note I am perturbed by the mutual belief among the public that prison is a ****ing paradise. Honestly, how many people have actually been inside a prison? Sure there is shitty television, 100 year old weights and a malnutritious 3 meals a day. Yet, people make it seem like prison is about kicking back with a 2-4 of Heinekin while tokin' up a blunt with the Warden. Get real. The public also seriously misjudges the average Canadian's enjoyment of their freedom. Sure growing up in the 'hood is arduous and all; however, ask any brotha in the ghetto if he favors the joint or the street and you'll hear a resounding preference for the outside world.

Outside, you may be nobody but at least you're a man. In prison everone is a bitch - its just that some are bigger than others.

Another thing to note about the homeless person scenario is that the vast majority are mentally ill - I doubt they have the cranial capacity to realize that prison offers meals and a bed. However, I also don't put much faith into them wanting to be part of Bubba's SausageFest '08.

Again, I would like to clarify that I am not promoting that we relax laws and give criminals the Order of Canada, just refine the justice system by expunging Draconian ideals.

Well, well. I think all the big words in there make this quite the essay. I had to use a dictionary for a couple of them lol...

Criminals that have made a mistake in there lives won't have a problem getting decent job. The only jobs that won't be available to them are jobs that ask for a record check. They don't get the "good" jobs because they're not educated or they have tattoos all over there body including there face and neck. Tattoos that aren't tasteful ones that are given in the jail with dirty needles that have a good chance of carrying HIV or Hep. C.

As for the Canadian jails. Well I know that the provincial jails are much harsher then federal jails. Criminals who commit more heinous crimes get more rights in the federal system. The reason for this is the federal system is trying to encourage the offenders to go out and become law abiding citizens.

As for jail being a cake walk, I wouldn't say that. The maximum security jails in Canada are definitely a place you don't want to be. All criminals that have received a sentence that is two years plus a day will start in a max. If you've murdered someone you're in a max. for two years before you're eligible for a reclassification. Others may spend the minimum of three months in the max. assessment unit. The offenders that are lucky enough to have a high reintegration potential are then able to move down the ladder to a medium. This is where things really loosen up at certain institutions. Several institutions allow offenders the opportunity to do there own shopping within the institution and make there own food. The same food that we eat. Steak, roasts, chicken, fresh vegetables, canned foods, and frozen pizza to name some of the stuff on the menu. This is to help them better manage when the become citizens of the community again. Then we have minimums. Similar to a medium but they also have the opportunity to work in the public. Have unescorted absences home to see other family members. Security is a lot more relaxed there also. The weight rooms in most of the facilities have equipment that you would see in your local YMCA or Goodlife. They also have houses in the public where offenders are able to come and go as they please but must return for curfew at night. Interesting isn't it.

The correctional system of Canada focuses on taking away the persons right to free movement. The different levels of security are just so we can better manage the more reckless individuals. Hence why a murderer serves a minimum of two years at a maximum.

So I do like your essay, but the things that I speak of are only the truth. If you're truly interested in what the facilities have to offer call a few institutions in the different levels. Ask to speak with the media relations person and see what type of information they will offer you. The things that I have listed they will be able to answer as it doesn't jeopardize them at all.

Should I have used a thesaurus? Just playin bro....

[kawikaratekid]

Had a few typos in there...

[BolicPower]

ManInTheBox you have lots of great information, thank you.

[leeroy]

I think this one slipped through.

Steroid drug raid region's largest: police
April 17, 2008
Liz Monteiro
RECORD STAFF


WATERLOO REGION

A Kitchener man is to appear in court tomorrow after what RCMP describe as the biggest seizure of steroids ever in Waterloo Region.

Mounties and Waterloo Regional Police raided a house at 34 Zeffer Place near Fairway and River roads on Monday night, Staff Sgt. Don Miller of the Kitchener RCMP detachment said yesterday.

"The drugs were all over the house," Miller said.

Steroids were found packaged in cardboard boxes, some containing as many as 10,000 pills, Miller said. The drugs, which speed muscle growth and are linked to performance enhancement in bodybuilding and other sports, were also found in powder and liquid form.

Miller said he could not place a dollar value on the steroids but called the seizure "huge." Police also found counterfeit Viagra, he said.

The man who was arrested owned a storage unit and another house, where police also found steroids, Miller said.

The man allegedly made the steroids himself by "mixing chemicals," Miller said. Police were tipped off about the steroids when a private firm complained the counterfeit drugs resembled its products.

Fernando Reis, 46, is charged with trafficking in steroids and possession of steroids for the purpose of trafficking. He has been in custody since his arrest on Monday.

This was the third time in five months that police have made substantial seizures of steroids in the region. In late November, regional police seized more than 10,000 steroid pills and other drugs with an estimated street value of $60,000.
Vincent Gemmiti, 33, of Burlington was arrested outside a Waterloo home. He faces a dozen counts of possession for the purpose of trafficking steroids and other drug-related charges. Police have not alleged a connection between Reis and Gemmiti.

[leeroy]

Looks like it's game over on the streets too. I don't think this was a net lab. Looks like AAS just became very important to LE.

[grindtight]

Teragon was busted because he was exporting to the US.

well thats wasnt to bright was it.

[srt8]

One of these guys was already busted in the jellybean operation and now was busted again. Probably brought on by himself, not that the cops all of a sudden have a hardon for juice.

[physique]

posted by mcbastard on anabolex.

I personally know the guy. I am not saying anything other than what the media says but this guy was huge. The tally is still not done, but it is estimated at 3-5 million just in stock alone. Never mind his 2 beautiful homes/cars etc. He is a nice guy, but got greedy. He made tons of money without having to sell on-line.


3-5million in stock alone?????????????????????????? thats ****ing nuts. wonder if thats RCMP 500x over market value or the true amount.

[BolicPower]

That would for sure be far fetched


posted by mcbastard on anabolex.

I personally know the guy. I am not saying anything other than what the media says but this guy was huge. The tally is still not done, but it is estimated at 3-5 million just in stock alone. Never mind his 2 beautiful homes/cars etc. He is a nice guy, but got greedy. He made tons of money without having to sell on-line.


3-5million in stock alone?????????????????????????? thats ****ing nuts. wonder if thats RCMP 500x over market value or the true amount.

[leeroy]

What UG lab name was it? I'm sure he must have put a name on the bottle. Would be good to know so someone doesn't just pop up a new lab and put the same label on it.

[simone]

this guy had ALOT.. the rcmp is still investigating this

he had 3 uhaul storage units full of shit... he was making lots of ephedrine and m1t etc. also.

[Gettin'r'round]

messing with large amounts ephedrine and/or it's basic ingredients is NOT smart considering how easy it is to turn into meth.... dumb dumb.

[leeroy]

Again, what lab name was this guy running under?

[z83]

from what i've read it could be S*****

[ergie]

You shouldn't really say things like that unless your very sure and I dont think you have a clue.

[gustavo77]

** does not carry ephedrine.

[z83]

You shouldn't really say things like that unless your very sure and I dont think you have a clue.

it's internet, we never really know what's true or rumor and I can only wish it's rumors

[Sean Summers]

Here is the other thread on the same topic. I've posted the "Lab's" name in that thread.
SS

http://www.canadabodybuilding.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1963

[ergie]

it's internet, we never really know what's true or rumor and I can only wish it's rumors

I have confirmed that it is definitely not the lab mentioned earlier in this thread....... Stupid newbies need to quit spreading rumours, if you dont know for sure don't post it.

If anybody wants to details on how I confirmed it please shoot me a pm.

[leeroy]

Here is the other thread on the same topic. I've posted the "Lab's" name in that thread.
SS

http://www.canadabodybuilding.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1963

Ah, thank you SS. The lab in question is Andro Technologies. Never heard of it on the net so it seems it was a street thing.

[ergie]

Andro Technologies......... that was what all of the retail supplemts were selling for
M1T's and DHEA in Canada.

[Sean Summers]

I could probably get a few pics of their products. Let me see what I can do. All the stuff I saw was "under the counter" so I will have to ask when I hit my accounts and see if they have some hidden away.
SS

[bmorlock]

ive used there m1t a few times it worked nice

[Gettin'r'round]

So this was for behind the counter stuff eh?

On a separate note, i happen to know a health food store owner i was chatting to told me that some dude faxed a price list to him for REAL GH kits!!!!!! he thought the dude was selling home homepathic HG or somethin, oh no! What a dope.

[physique]

some of you are right in this thread and some are wrong as to the lab name.

the supplement line though is andro technologies. they made all kinds of things. from dhea,m1t, 4ad and a few other items.

heres a pic

[IronRobi]

Good ol' andro tech. I know many many many people that popped those like candy :p

[srt8]

oropharm