Theoretical diet strategy... chime in please

[fathead]

what do you think would happen if you combined a keto/palumbo style diet with a low fat moderate carb/carb cycle diet?

idea would be on monday/wed/fri/etc eat pro+fats (trace carbs) and on tues/thu/sat/etc eat low fat and moderate (or cycling) carbs like oats/rice etc.

alternatively (perhaps more effective) eat each of these diets 3-4 days straight or even 1-2 weeks straight before switching back and forth...

would this work at all? or would you just not get anywhere because you arent letting your body take advantage of the idea of either of these diets? would the keto portions be useless because you arent giving enough time to get into ketosis? what if you went 1-2 weeks of each?

just a thought i had as when ive tried keto before i get decent results for a bit then just start looking kinda lousy, then make progress in terms of body fat loss when i go back to carbs/low fat for a bit

and lets assume youre trying to get lean but not necessarily for a show, so you are more concerned with your general progress and looking good more so then peaking by carbing up or whatever for a show

thanks

[Delt King]

what do you think would happen if you combined a keto/palumbo style diet with a low fat moderate carb/carb cycle diet?

idea would be on monday/wed/fri/etc eat pro+fats (trace carbs) and on tues/thu/sat/etc eat low fat and moderate (or cycling) carbs like oats/rice etc.


I've done it successfully many times.

[fathead]

I've done it successfully many times.

REALLY!? could you elaborate a bit... you go and forth every day? this was a cutting diet i assume?

[Andre Gregoire]

Have you heard of Lyle McDonald's Ultimate Diet 2.0?

It's an improvement on Dan Duchaines Ultimate Diet and BodyOpus and it's 4 days of low calorie keto dieting followed by 3 days of carbs. The first day being a carbup and the other 2 days are either maintenance calories or a slight deficit. Works very well.

Besides this approach I have done a targeted keto which is a bit like you described where I would have carbs around training 2-3 days per week plus a 1 day carb up.

All diets work as long as protein is adequate and there is a caloric deficit. It's a matter of implementing it properly and finding a diet that you can adhere too. You need to understand exactly why you are doing things and then it's easy to make any diet work.

From your description it seems like you liked the keto but eventually started looking lousy, that sounds to me like you were glycogen depleted. You could try a simple cyclical keto diet where you keto diet 5 days per week and carbup all weekend. That will keep you full most of the week and allow for good fat loss.

[Praetorian]

what do you think would happen if you combined a keto/palumbo style diet with a low fat moderate carb/carb cycle diet?

idea would be on monday/wed/fri/etc eat pro+fats (trace carbs) and on tues/thu/sat/etc eat low fat and moderate (or cycling) carbs like oats/rice etc. YOU WOULD NEVER ENTER KETOSIS SO IN ESSENCE YOU ARE JUST CARB CYCLING

alternatively (perhaps more effective) eat each of these diets 3-4 days straight or even 1-2 weeks straight before switching back and forth...
1-2 WEEKS WOULD PUT YOU INTO KETOSIS BUT THE BODY WOULD ALWAYS WANT TO SWITCH BACK TO GLYCOGEN BECAUSE YOU HAVE NOT ALLOWED IT TIME TO FULLY TRANSITION...

would this work at all? or would you just not get anywhere because you arent letting your body take advantage of the idea of either of these diets? would the keto portions be useless because you arent giving enough time to get into ketosis? what if you went 1-2 weeks of each?
YOU ARE MISSING THE PRIME ADVANTAGES OF BOTH KETO AND CARB CYCLING

just a thought i had as when ive tried keto before i get decent results for a bit then just start looking kinda lousy, then make progress in terms of body fat loss when i go back to carbs/low fat for a bit
THATS BECAUSE YOU ARE NOT RUNNING KETO CORRECTLY...ITS NOT COOKIE CUTTER

and lets assume youre trying to get lean but not necessarily for a show, so you are more concerned with your general progress and looking good more so then peaking by carbing up or whatever for a show

PROGESS IS PROGRESS SHOW OR NOT MAKES NO DIFFERENCE...ITS ABOUT DROPPING BODY FAT PURE AND SIMPLE

thanks

P

[JonnyO]

Similar to how I do things, I go higher carbs, low fat on training days....higher fats, lower carbs non-training days.

[Delt King]

REALLY!? could you elaborate a bit... you go and forth every day? this was a cutting diet i assume?

Yes it's a fairly standard practice in my carb cycling. And i understand what you're saying...you want the results but still want to look good everyday not just one day. I follow this then do a large refeed when i look too depleted, it all depends on how i look.

[gingerbreadman]

I've tried Torbjörn Äkerfeldt's ABCDE diet (anabolic burst cycling of diet and exercise) for 3 months once. Was the hardest I've ever been natural with great energy & strength.

Premise is you "overfeed" for 12-14 days then underfeed for 12-14 days. Idea is based on hunter-gatherer days of our ancestors where we'd have to adapt to when there was a big kill & food aplenty to a period where we had to starve waiting for the next kill. Our hormones and enzymes haven't adapted much from this structure since. Research says it takes about 12-14 days for the body's hormones & enzymes to adapt to the overfeeding or underfeeding stage hence you're always making the body adapt. After three months my metabolism WAS ON FIRE!

Overfeeding I was around 4,000 cals and underfeeding around 1,800

Here's a link

http://www.mindandmuscle.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=4967

[fathead]

Similar to how I do things, I go higher carbs, low fat on training days....higher fats, lower carbs non-training days.

how many days a week are you training then? cause for me that would be 5 days of carb+pro and 2 days of pro+fat.... and could you ballpark amount of pro/fat and carb/pro on each of those days?

[fathead]

P

ya youve pretty much stated what was in the back of my mind that trying to implement both of these strategies will possibly result in neither of them working :( kinda like trying to catch 2 chickens at the same time

you really dont think there is a difference in the way you look day to day going for ultimate show condition vs just trying to get lean without peaking? i understand at the end of the day the guy in peak shape who depleted and carbed up or what have you would likely look the best after doing so (the leanest) but in the weeks leading up to it im not so sure.

[ubcpower]

fathead, if you were to try this carb cycling approach it might be a good time to try the interval cardio sessions on the carb days , id be interested to that effect

[fathead]

fathead, if you were to try this carb cycling approach it might be a good time to try the interval cardio sessions on the carb days , id be interested to that effect

that sounds like hard work. how about you do it. OR now that you are a hillbilly again you could chase chickens in a pen... rocky style

[natenator]

that sounds like hard work. how about you do it. OR now that you are a hillbilly again you could chase chickens in a pen... rocky style
LOL

[ubcpower]

Here is my current regime, maybe you would like to try:

7am Weights (horrible effort) 500-800 kcal burned
+
10-4pm Nailing fences, painting fences, bailing hay 1200-1500 kcal burned
+
10pm 45 mins cardio elliptical (worst time to do cardio)
=
zero fat loss and muscle atrophy

[JonnyO]

Here is my current regime, maybe you would like to try:

7am Weights (horrible effort) 500-800 kcal burned
+
10-4pm Nailing fences, painting fences, bailing hay 1200-1500 kcal burned
+
10pm 45 mins cardio elliptical (worst time to do cardio)
=
zero fat loss and muscle atrophy

LOL, good to see things are working out for ya bro!

[fathead]

Here is my current regime, maybe you would like to try:

7am Weights (horrible effort) 500-800 kcal burned
+
10-4pm Nailing fences, painting fences, bailing hay 1200-1500 kcal burned
+
10pm 45 mins cardio elliptical (worst time to do cardio)
=
zero fat loss and muscle atrophy

i dont see your weekly asian volleyball session accounted for here... what gives?