Which AI to use on cycle??

[MMASTAR]

Just posted this on another forum so for some of you its a double post, but i want CBB's advice as well. (cause your all such great guys!! lol)

Hey, just planning out the winter bulker, gonna be running T400 and EQ. Was thinking 400mg T400 and 360mg EQ EW. (possibly 500mg test and 400 EQ) Might add some t-bol or var to start off, not sure yet. Just doing some reading about AI's and SERM's while on cycle. I would like to run an AI throught out this cycle because of how anabolic it is. I was thinking 50mg proviron (not acctually an AI) daily because of its synergistic properties with anabolic hormones, but im worried that wont be enough. So i was thinking A-dex (so as not to reduce estro to low) at .5mg daily, or should i go even lower?? .25mg daily?? I was thinking nolva originally but dont like that it can hinder gains. Any thoughts on which compound would be best to run throughout cycle? No need to worry about PCT because i am on HRT (thanks Doc!!)

[Praetorian]

I doubt you would need an AI on low dose cycle such as that. I would also only use an AI if absolutely necessary as they will reduce overall gains. If you have to your best choices are aromasin or femara as they do little to affect HDL which arimidex does. Proviron is not an effective AI and is not preferred since much better third generation AI's have been available.
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[MMASTAR]

Im getting this low dosage thing alot, i figured i would bump the test to 525mg a week and leave the EQ at 360mg, isnt 885mg of anabolics a week enough?? this will be my second cycle, what do you suggest would be a better dosage?? my first cycle was 500mg a week test e. I am on HRT and used this cycle to kickstart my lifelong journy.

[MMASTAR]

side note, may kickstart cycle with var or t bol for 7 weeks.

[GYMBRAT]

I doubt you would need an AI on low dose cycle such as that. I would also only use an AI if absolutely necessary as they will reduce overall gains. If you have to your best choices are aromasin or femara as they do little to affect HDL which arimidex does. Proviron is not an effective AI and is not preferred since much better third generation AI's have been available.
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I love your way of thinkin Prae! Great advice a always!!

[Praetorian]

Im getting this low dosage thing alot, i figured i would bump the test to 525mg a week and leave the EQ at 360mg, isnt 885mg of anabolics a week enough?? this will be my second cycle, what do you suggest would be a better dosage?? my first cycle was 500mg a week test e. I am on HRT and used this cycle to kickstart my lifelong journy.

I meant you probably dont need an AI on a low dose cycle like that...however the dose is fine ...you really dont need more.
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[bigtavi8]

P hit the nail on the head when he was saying you probobly dont need one with that low dose. But if your prone to gyno or estro sensitive which i believe i am ill give you some personal insight. IMHO letrozole( femera) is the most potent AI i have used and no matter how much gear i used it kept estro at bay at 1.25mg ED. It is very very potent stuff. With that being sed sex drive after a week or so took a painful dive. Another i like was arimidex .5mg ED while on and used it for a few cycles and liked it. But if it was a harsh cycle or involved tren or deca id use letro (femera) just to be safe.

[bigtavi8]

Back to the original post you could run .5mg arimidex EOD and then monitor the sides and move to ED if it becomes an issue. The less AI the better but everyone reacts differnt. For me .5mg adex on a test 500mg/ew cycle is just enough to prevent gyno. EOD did not do it. But for you it may so try EOD and if you feel something coming on move to ED and then go from there. Or get letro and be 110% good right from the get go. (sex drive :( will suffer tho)

[ironwill]

P hit the nail on the head when he was saying you probobly dont need one with that low dose. But if your prone to gyno or estro sensitive which i believe i am ill give you some personal insight. IMHO letrozole( femera) is the most potent AI i have used and no matter how much gear i used it kept estro at bay at 1.25mg ED. It is very very potent stuff. With that being sed sex drive after a week or so took a painful dive. Another i like was arimidex .5mg ED while on and used it for a few cycles and liked it. But if it was a harsh cycle or involved tren or deca id use letro (femera) just to be safe.

Try 1.25 eod as ed is typically to high for many...You need some estrogen to keep libido alive as well.....It is also beneficial for many other parts of our existence...dont kill all estro, not good aT ALL...

[bigtavi8]

Try 1.25 eod as ed is typically to high for many...You need some estrogen to keep libido alive as well.....It is also beneficial for many other parts of our existence...dont kill all estro, not good aT ALL...

Good call IW i read in MD a few weeks back that totally supressing estro can wreak havoc on your HDL cholestrol, lipid levels, joint pain, etc.

[ironwill]

^^^ definitely!!!

[OntariOMuscle101]

Like previously stated before you dont need it on that low of a dose, but if you are suseptable to estrogen, id say Aromasin for the simple fact that its is much better for your blood lipids rather then arimidex or letro.

[ironwill]

^^ Femara doesnt affect hdl that much either...Good stuff, just very powerful.....Start low and see how it goes..

[Dragon1911]

What do you guys think of Nolva at a low dose say 10mg /day while on cycle.

Ive read that it binds to the receptor site in breast tissue thus reducing chance of gyno while on cycle.

However it has been shown to reduce gains in some while on cycle due to lowering IGF.

[MMASTAR]

If it reduces gains why use it?? many other better options IMO

[cog]

I thought Letro was the sledgehammer approach?Not so?

[Dragon1911]

If it reduces gains why use it?? many other better options IMO

Im by no means an expert on the matter im just quoting what ive read.
It only shows reduced gains in some test subjects due to lowered IGF.

From what ive read it binds to the breast receptors thus stopping gyno from forming and has addiitonal benefits such as improved lipid profile, increased serum levels of LH ans FSH and its used to fight cancer.

Im not saying its the best to use on cycle but just that some people do at a dose of 10-20mg daily and see no hinderance to gains.

[Praetorian]

Tamoxifen can slow gains somewhat but for those with HDL issues it does keep HDL levels up while on cycle.
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[MMASTAR]

In one study, both .5mg and 1mg doses of Arimidex were shown to decrease estrogen by roughly 50%. The 1mg/day dose also increased testosterone levels by 58% (1). In that same study, in both groups, LH and FSH also went up slightly.

That means if you choose to take proviron with testosterone (and I know you wouldn´t even be doing a cycle without including some form of testosterone) and/or any aromatizable steroid, it should actually serve to prevent estrogen build up by the aforementioned binding to the aromatase enzyme, which prevents aromatase from doing it´s dirty work and making a bunch of estrogen out of the other steroids you are taking


So, I just want to be clear, A-dex should be taking everyday correct?? Would taking .5mg A-dex ED as a precaution hinder gains?? What about a lower dose of .25mg ED?? As for proviron, does it control estrogen at all?? If not, what are the benefits of using it on cycle other than for libido??

[Praetorian]

In one study, both .5mg and 1mg doses of Arimidex were shown to decrease estrogen by roughly 50%. The 1mg/day dose also increased testosterone levels by 58% (1). In that same study, in both groups, LH and FSH also went up slightly.

That means if you choose to take proviron with testosterone (and I know you wouldn´t even be doing a cycle without including some form of testosterone) and/or any aromatizable steroid, it should actually serve to prevent estrogen build up by the aforementioned binding to the aromatase enzyme, which prevents aromatase from doing it´s dirty work and making a bunch of estrogen out of the other steroids you are taking


So, I just want to be clear, A-dex should be taking everyday correct?? Would taking .5mg A-dex ED as a precaution hinder gains?? What about a lower dose of .25mg ED?? As for proviron, does it control estrogen at all?? If not, what are the benefits of using it on cycle other than for libido??

Depending on the dose Adex can be run ED or EOD. It will hinder gains if you use too much... and if its not required you shouldnt use it...ie do not take it just to take it....if you have serious estro sides then fine...otherwise it is not necessary. Proviron is not as good at controlling estrogen as the current AI's...it was used prior to these compounds being available and is now considered redundant and less then effective. Why would anyone use proviron for libido on cycle...are they not running test...silly.

The overall answer is simple...use an AI only if necessary...aromasin or femara are much better choices then adex for reasons regarding HDL. Also the effectiveness of any AI is dose dependant just like any drug...they will all work 100% at controlling estrogen...depending on the dose.
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[Dragon1911]

Can aromasin be dosed EOD since it is a type I inhibitor?

[MMASTAR]

Thanks Prae, looks like ill keep some a-sin and some nolva on hand just in case. If estro sides arise, what dosage of aromasin or nolva should i jump on?

[#8]

^^ just wondering what the answer is to this question

[Praetorian]

I would suggest 12.5mg Aromasin ED and see how that goes...increase to 25mg only if necessary. Nolvadex 10mg twice daily dosed 8-10 hours apart.
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[#8]

^^ Thanks

[gustavo77]

Aromasin is the safest and most effective AI. It should be dosed ED due to it's short half life (appox 24hrs). 12.5mg/day to start if needed.

Proviron is not an AI, nor does it directly lower estrogen. Proviron is an androgen. It competes with estrogen and lowers SHBG, increasing free-testosterone. Hence it's effects of increased libido, lower water retention and increased muscle hardness. Some say that it can even increase the effectiveness of testosterone supplementation...which could be true since it lowers SHBG and frees up bound testosterone...

[Praetorian]

Proviron is old school and redundant nowadays...especially with the advent of third generation AI's.
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