As requested by Nate!

[Ritch]

For those of you who think 2 hours of cardio is a good thing, I ask the following to you: You think people who are dying of cancer look good? Well that`s how the majority of people who do that end up looking. That or an aids patient. Sexy...

Of course your circle of bodybuilding friends won`t tell you that... They`ll be like, "hey bro, those ripped glutes of yours are awesome!" Simply blinded by the sucked in cheeks and bugged out eyes you have. You look like death. Seriously, it`s beyond gross and horrifyingly ugly. I`m sure 95% of the people would agree with me. But since this is a bodybuilding site, I`m not expecting much backing here by anybody... But it seems that flat stringy look is appraised as "ripped"...

The guys on steroids can get away with this better of course... Maybe a few natural as well. And I have absolutely nothing against that (the steroid use) But those of you who approve this "look" are into competiting. A very, very small minority here. As I`ve said many times, I love bodybuilding, having a body that`s better than the huge majority of people, and 2 hours of cardio is borderline if not plain insanity. Then I hear people say "My life is balanced... Sure it is, 2 hours of cardio and 1 hour of training is "perfect balance", lol. It`s all a matter of perception and that is mine.

Go ahead, I`ve got my flame suit on...

[GYMBRAT]

I'm with ya Ritch, I'm not into that look although have put myself through it many a time....I do believe its all bout the "who" can and "who" cant accomplish it which imho...NOT TOO MANY ;) so it's a matter of are you man/woman enough to get there...jmo

[natenator]

You've kind of taken the conversation out of context and rambled on about nonsense like balance as well so I will too.

Competing is not about balance. Anyone who can maintain a balanced life while in contest prep isn't dieting hard enough. Competing takes a level of effort and dicipline that few can even comprehend. If you want balance, don't compete.

You can lead a very balance lifestyle while continuing to build your physique but in content prep you go to work, to the gym, eat, sleep and on the good days go out for a movie here and there.

Now can you do cardio for 2+ hours and not look like a string bean? Absolutely. I've seen it first hand in myself and in others, esp. other competitors that Praetorian has prepped. Ask djdjn how much cardio he was doing and I don't think he looked like a string bean at all. Nor do I think Tavi, cch, btuffs, etc look like stringbeans and I'm willing to bet they were upwards if not more than 2 hours a day.

Does it suck? Big ****ing balls does it ever suck. I'd rather train for 3 hours than do 2 hours of boring ass cardio but whatever. Bodybuilding isn't ping pong. You suck it up and do what needs to be done to compete.

[steve_d]

doing 2 hours of cardio also doesn't guarantee anyone a ripped look. Tuns of people do 2 hours of vigourous activity per day and still have much more fat than I carry doing none.

I know where you're going with this ritch, but 2 hours of cardio can never be seen as a "bad" thing. I think if I were to do 2 hours of cycling per day, I would be a "healthier" person than doing no cardio. Keeping everything else the same.

[GYMBRAT]

yeah I agree^ 2 hrs of cardio can be a very common protocol of tons of ppl, even with some ppls actual jobs they do for a livin

...I used to do Helli Portable seismic drilling, so I was up and down mountains all day every day wks on end, and I was to say the least "fit as a fiddle" but was eating an awesome diet as well

[Ritch]

I don`t understand how what I posted is out of context. The subject of 2 hours of cardio came up, I had thoughts about it that weren`t to be said in Prae`s thread. You then said, start the thread...

[natenator]

not that this is the be all, end all but I don't think he looks like a string bean here compared to his starting pics and I can assure you he was doing 2+hrs of cardio near the end of his 45 days.

[GYMBRAT]

yeah wicked work there boyz!!

[btufts]

Yep 2 hours cardio a day plus weights and limited diet got me to where I needed to be. That's when I was most ripped, but I was also passing out daily at work near the end. Got the job done though

[natenator]

Yep 2 hours cardio a day plus weights and limited diet got me to where I needed to be. That's when I was most ripped, but I was also passing out daily at work near the end. Got the job done though
and I wouldn't call you a string bean at all.

Maybe Ritch would?

[steve_d]

Just to be clear on my view....I don't actually support 2 hours per day as a necessity to getting ripped. In my opinion if you need that much, it means you are trying to do things in too short period of time. I prefer doing things over a longer time so that you don't actually NEED to get to the point of 2 hours a day of cardio.

I myself am doing about 2 hours a day now. But this has only been for the last 3 days, and it is simply to eliminate the carbs I ate over the last weekend. I would never do 2 hours + for more than a week or 2 as a last minute get ripped for a show routine. Not for months at a time.

[#8]

The amount of cardio one "needs" to do depends on their caloric intake. If you eat 5000 calories a day, Im sure 2 hours of cardio wont make you look like a string bean at all.

[japh]

A peron who is big and in shape shouldn't have to ever do more than an hour daily in GENERAL unless their trying to fast track progress IMHO.

It would be counterproductive in my opinion over a long period of time. Any more than 4 weeks.

MMA guys do it all the time and look descent but could look better if "looks" was their number one goal. lol

Maybe for the last month tops before a contest just to get that last 5 pounds without changing ones diet at all.

I personally like the way bodybuilders look 4 weeks out more than the day of a contest so I know what ritch is saying there. However, the illusion on stage demands those last 5 pounds not to mention a fake tan. Thats just the way it is.

Anyone who's in shape can JOG 10 km in one hour EASY. Who the hell wants to do that more than once a day! lol A bodybuilder of descent size over 200 pounds will generally burn around a 1000 calories doing that as well. Thats enough in one day IMHO

[tiramisu]

Serious poopy thread.

By the time I had been dieting for 12 weeks the only way to sustain weight loss was with 2 - 1 hour sessions of cardio plus clen plus a couple of veg protein days per week.

My body is entirely happy at about 14% body fat. Any time I go past about 12-14 weeks of reduced calories my body stops cooperating with me. If a diet runs 16 weeks or more long cardio is pretty much unavoidable for me.

If I were only dieting for 8-12 weeks I'm pretty sure I could do it on diet alone but that would require maintaining a sub 10% body fat level and that's not the way I'm built.

[Ritch]

^^^ I pretty much prefer the look competitors have at the 6 weeks out...

Yeah L3 looks great in those pics, but flirting with the "undesired look" though. I always thought he looks overall better a little heavier and fuller however. The avatar pic with his veiny forearm looked stringy to me though. I actually think L3 has one of the nicer builds here from the front.

[Ritch]

Serious poopy thread.

By the time I had been dieting for 12 weeks the only way to sustain weight loss was with 2 - 1 hour sessions of cardio plus clen plus a couple of veg protein days per week.

My body is entirely happy at about 14% body fat. Any time I go past about 12-14 weeks of reduced calories my body stops cooperating with me. If a diet runs 16 weeks or more long cardio is pretty much unavoidable for me.

If I were only dieting for 8-12 weeks I'm pretty sure I could do it on diet alone but that would require maintaining a sub 10% body fat level and that's not the way I'm built.

In all fairness though, do you train like a bodybuilder? I`m sure you`d look different if you didn`t give the 5x5 stuff so much priority. You`ve stated yourself that your ab exercises are squats, deads and such. I think you need more days training (4-5) with more emphasis on bodybuilding.

[natenator]

^^^ I pretty much prefer the look competitors have at the 6 weeks out...

Yeah L3 looks great in those pics, but flirting with the "undesired look" though. I always thought he looks overall better a little heavier and fuller however. The avatar pic with his veiny forearm looked stringy to me though. I actually think L3 has one of the nicer builds here from the front.
again, we're talking contest ready conditioning here. Not saying he was IN contest conditioning but he wasn't that far off in my opinion.

Big difference between the 2 so lets keep the discussion to contest conditioning and if 2 hours of cardio yield a string bean.

[Ritch]

Yep 2 hours cardio a day plus weights and limited diet got me to where I needed to be. That's when I was most ripped, but I was also passing out daily at work near the end. Got the job done though

Had you ever been super lean before?

[natenator]

In all fairness though, do you train like a bodybuilder? I`m sure you`d look different if you didn`t give the 5x5 stuff so much priority. You`ve stated yourself that your ab exercises are squats, deads and such. I think you need more days training (4-5) with more emphasis on bodybuilding.
seriously?

Greg Doucette (correct me if I am wrong, Greg/Steve) trains like a powerlifter and had a bodybuilding physique.

[Ritch]

seriously?

Greg Doucette (correct me if I am wrong, Greg/Steve) trains like a powerlifter and had a bodybuilding physique.

Yes seriously. If that type of training works for you and you look like a bodybuilder. That`s great! If you train that way and don`t look like one, then maybe. Go ahead say it Nate, I`m right on this one!

[natenator]

Yes seriously. If that type of training works for you and you look like a bodybuilder. That`s great! If you train that way and don`t look like one, then maybe. Go ahead say it Nate, I`m right on this one!
not sure what you want me to say you're right about but if it turns out you are then I'll happily say it.

[Ritch]

Stop playing dumb, lol. I said that to look like a bodybuilder you should train like one. OK, as ALWAYS, there`s a few exeptions to the rule. Let`s not make a case about Gregg and Steve. I said 5X5 training is not the best way to look like a bodybuilder and you bring up the 2 guys I just mentioned.

What I`m saying is that 5x5 training is not the best way to look like a bodybuilder. Yes or no?

Or good for some and not for most I`d take as an acceptable answer.

[natenator]

Stop playing dumb, lol. I said that to look like a bodybuilder you should train like one. OK, as ALWAYS, there`s a few exeptions to the rule. Let`s not make a case about Gregg and Steve. I said 5X5 training is not the best way to look like a bodybuilder and you bring up the 2 guys I just mentioned.

What I`m saying is that 5x5 training is not the best way to look like a bodybuilder. Yes or no?

Or good for some and not for most I`d take as an acceptable answer.
there are many ways to skin a cat and each and every one of them have their place.

5x5 works for a period of time then you need to switch it up. HIT works as does volume training. They all have their place.

Dorian was a volume trainer initially and had a pretty damn good physique and then switched to HIT and took it to the next level.

We're getting off topic though don't you think?

[Praetorian]

The comments on my thread were in relation to contest prep. Some clients have to do 2 hours of cardio daily,...some dont...it comes down to many variables ie metabolism, BF percentage, amount of lean muscle...the list goes on. The amount also does not start at 2hrs daily...it begins with a much smaller amount once daily and increases as the body adapts to that amount along with other changes. It funny to see guys debating the subject but who have never actually gone through the process to get down to contest shape or worked with hundreds of clients and have gone thorugh it with them. Every client is different and requires a specific program..but 2 hours of cardio is not going to string you out nor make you lose muscle...again the fear of this keeps these people very far away from contest shape. Toney Freeman does 3 hours a day at times and sure doesnt look like a string bean.
P

[Ritch]

I was going to mention the very discussion of that would be off topic yes.

2 hours of cardio for the majority of people (especially drug free=beanpole status) And if I were to put a stat on that it would mean a guy who`s 5`10 under 190 competition shape. At that point you`re just to small, thus stringy and kinda small no matter how lean you are. At one point the benefit of being lean outweighs it`s aesthetic value.

How does that sound?

[natenator]

I was going to mention the very discussion of that would be off topic yes.

2 hours of cardio for the majority of people (especially drug free=beanpole status) And if I were to put a stat on that it would mean a guy who`s 5`10 under 190 competition shape. At that point you`re just to small, thus stringy and kinda small no matter how lean you are. At one point the benefit of being lean outweighs it`s aesthetic value.

How does that sound?
5'10, 189lbs of pure ripped, peeled glutes and hams goodness is not what I'd call small and stringy at all.

I am not going to agree with you on this one. I do not believe you can say with such certainty as you have that doing 2 hours of cardio a day will make a person small and stringy.

[#8]

^^ agree.

our conception of "small" or "stringy" is completely ****ing wacked nowadays.

A guy who is 5'10, 190 lean, is a pretty ****ing solid dude, regardless of his proportions or symmetry. Maybe his arms arent 19" but, he still has more muscle than 99.99999999% of human beings.

[Ritch]

OK then, I say with certainty that most people who do 2 hours of cardio will end up stringy.

Also if you`re 5`10 189 ripped... It just sucks. Nobody when they see you dressed will even think you train. I like to be lean naked... And have a body when people see me in clothes that dare I say "impresses people" And am pleased to say I have this without the suffering of any cardio!

All that suffering to be labeled a toothpick seems sad to me.

Or how about this? 2 hours of cardio? Fine! As long as you still look big in regular clothes. But then again for the majority of people it just won`t turn out that way in reality, hence my whole reason of this thread. It will make you like one cancer/aids skinny ass dude. Desirable? Not to me. I guess some people dig that, which is cool, dosen`t affect me. Just stating how I see things.

To me a guy who`s 5`10 should be a good 210 before competing. Of course that`s tough to get to and takes a long time. Skip Lacour looked awesome at 198! An exeption so I won`t make a huge case. He did hit cardio anyway, totally off topic here...

[tiramisu]

In all fairness though, do you train like a bodybuilder? I`m sure you`d look different if you didn`t give the 5x5 stuff so much priority. You`ve stated yourself that your ab exercises are squats, deads and such. I think you need more days training (4-5) with more emphasis on bodybuilding.

Being old I have tried pretty much everything at one point or another.
Heavy compound routines with limited volume are the most effective muscle builders for me - 5x5, SS, DC. I can put on 10 pounds very quickly with a volume routine. I puff up nicely but once that 10 pounds of volume hypertrophy is done I hit a wall. With the strength based routines I have been able to consistently grow over that last 2 1/2 years without stalling or plateaus.

I am fairly certain that the "look" of the muscle is pretty much set by your genetics; muscle attachments, muscle bellies, fast/slow twitch, muscle shape.

For me, I find that the best bang for the buck in putting meat on the bones is through heavy compound movements rather than isolation or volume. I would never "look like a bodybuilder" through the use of 5 day a week programs. In my youth on the bodybuilding type programs the best I could manage would a middle weight @ 5' 10". Using the strength based programs I can comfortably sit in the heavy weight division. At my height to "look like a bodybuilder" I personally believe you need to be in the heavy weight class. 185 looks good on a guy who is 5' 6" but at 5' 10" 185 looks "athletic".

[steve_d]

Also if you`re 5`10 189 ripped... It just sucks. Nobody when they see you dressed will even think you train. I like to be lean naked... And have a body when people see me in clothes that dare I say "impresses people" And am pleased to say I have this without the suffering of any cardio!


while it's true with enough clothes on people may not think I am a bodybuilder. I am 5'6 and under 170. If I were 5'10 with the same proportions, I may not be much over 190. So yeah, I am going to have to disagree with the 5'10 189 ripped = sucks.

Not to mention, when I was 5'6, 175-180, no one looked at me twice in the gym. Now that I am sub 170, all of a sudden people who never talked to me once in the past year want to strike a conversation and I've never been complimented so much in my life. I think you're point is you don't like the drawn competitive bodybuilder look. I can agree with that to a point. But if you're dieting down correctly, you should never get "drawn out" until the day of the show. I am 2 days away, and I am FULL especially after 1 set of anything. I only get "drawn out" the day of the show. And that's the only time I would look small in clothes, or strange to a normal person. And that's the way it should be. To look good on stage you should look strange under normal conditions. but a week before a show, you should NOT look flat or drawn out - if you do, you're doing something wrong.

Ripped = Big. I look heavier at 165 than I do at 180. I much prefer the way I look in the gym, in the mall, at work at 165 then I do at 180. The problem is a feel way better at 175.

It's okay that you prefer the look of a guy 6 weeks out then 6 days out. Same as I prefer a woman with abs compared to a woman with big boobs.

My final point though, and this is key...Weight means nothing. And you're probably right...Alot of guys look like sticks at 189 5'10 (even at contest weight). Weight is an illusion.

[Ritch]

^^^ good post, I think for the guy who looks big at 190 and 5`10 has alot of muscle maturity creating that look. I mean a guy can be 200lbs at that height in his late teens then in his 30`s be the same weight and looke jacked. Of course most people won`t get that look as it takes a good decade to achieve it. Once again putting them in my "small category" lol...

[GYMBRAT]

while it's true with enough clothes on people may not think I am a bodybuilder. I am 5'6 and under 170. If I were 5'10 with the same proportions, I may not be much over 190. So yeah, I am going to have to disagree with the 5'10 189 ripped = sucks.

Not to mention, when I was 5'6, 175-180, no one looked at me twice in the gym. Now that I am sub 170, all of a sudden people who never talked to me once in the past year want to strike a conversation and I've never been complimented so much in my life. I think you're point is you don't like the drawn competitive bodybuilder look. I can agree with that to a point. But if you're dieting down correctly, you should never get "drawn out" until the day of the show. I am 2 days away, and I am FULL especially after 1 set of anything. I only get "drawn out" the day of the show. And that's the only time I would look small in clothes, or strange to a normal person. And that's the way it should be. To look good on stage you should look strange under normal conditions. but a week before a show, you should NOT look flat or drawn out - if you do, you're doing something wrong.

Ripped = Big. I look heavier at 165 than I do at 180. I much prefer the way I look in the gym, in the mall, at work at 165 then I do at 180. The problem is a feel way better at 175.

It's okay that you prefer the look of a guy 6 weeks out then 6 days out. Same as I prefer a woman with abs compared to a woman with big boobs.

My final point though, and this is key...Weight means nothing. And you're probably right...Alot of guys look like sticks at 189 5'10 (even at contest weight). Weight is an illusion.

yeah man great post!!

[tiramisu]

Piffle, If you are 180 at 5'10" even @ 4% you look like an underwear model not a bodybuilder.

Now there is nothing wrong with looking like an underwear model. Most women prefer it. The thing is to me you simply don't "look" like a bodybuilder.

Of course, I'm not entirely convinced you should be able to call yourself a man unless you break 200 pounds. That's just the way I see it :)

[Ritch]

Piffle, If you are 180 at 5'10" even @ 4% you look like an underwear model not a bodybuilder.

Now there is nothing wrong with looking like an underwear model. Most women prefer it. The thing is to me you simply don't "look" like a bodybuilder.

Of course, I'm not entirely convinced you should be able to call yourself a man unless you break 200 pounds. That's just the way I see it :)

Finally some relief... I think the guys who say I was this weight and now I`m smaller and people talk to me and want to know what I`m doing is exactly what you said here. The majority of people like that. But the opposite can also be true. Mostly will attract guys, when you`re 5`10 220 plus, they will seek out your advice as well... Depends what kind of a gym you train at I guess.

The last paragraph though is a little tough on the manlets though... A guy who`s 5`6 200 lbs will most likely be a real life walking dough boy. He`s better off not being 200lbs!

[Praetorian]

OK then, I say with certainty that most people who do 2 hours of cardio will end up stringy.

Also if you`re 5`10 189 ripped... It just sucks. Nobody when they see you dressed will even think you train. I like to be lean naked... And have a body when people see me in clothes that dare I say "impresses people" And am pleased to say I have this without the suffering of any cardio!

All that suffering to be labeled a toothpick seems sad to me.

Or how about this? 2 hours of cardio? Fine! As long as you still look big in regular clothes. But then again for the majority of people it just won`t turn out that way in reality, hence my whole reason of this thread. It will make you like one cancer/aids skinny ass dude. Desirable? Not to me. I guess some people dig that, which is cool, dosen`t affect me. Just stating how I see things.

To me a guy who`s 5`10 should be a good 210 before competing. Of course that`s tough to get to and takes a long time. Skip Lacour looked awesome at 198! An exeption so I won`t make a huge case. He did hit cardio anyway, totally off topic here...


I would have to disagree with you. I can say with 100% certainty that most people who do 2 hours of cardio will not look stringy provided they are following a decent diet. I say this with certainty because I have done it multiple times and have had many clients do the same and go on to win their classes and overalls. You see its not what you think may happen...or what could happen, or what might happen...its about what does happen...and you just wont know this without real life experience on yourself and others.
P

[tiramisu]

I think we need a separate forum for hobbits, gnomes, elves, trolls, and the occasional ent.

I fully appreciate the strength of the trolls and the ents and I dig the garden gnomes but it's kind of hard comparing them with men.

[Ritch]

I would have to disagree with you. I can say with 100% certainty that most people who do 2 hours of cardio will not look stringy provided they are following a decent diet. I say this with certainty because I have done it multiple times and have had many clients do the same and go on to win their classes and overalls. You see its not what you think may happen...or what could happen, or what might happen...its about what does happen...and you just wont know this without real life experience on yourself and others.
P

Good post, but dosen`t change the fact that the people I see who are getting ready for a show look like death. And most don`t even do that much cardio. And they gave "guru`s" telling them how to eat and train. I think we just, as it`s been pointed out find different looks acceptable and others not so...

[Ritch]

I think we need a separate forum for hobbits, gnomes, elves, trolls, and the occasional ent.

I fully appreciate the strength of the trolls and the ents and I dig the garden gnomes but it's kind of hard comparing them with men.

LOL!

[tiramisu]

Striated striations have become progressively more important to the judges in the last 15 years. Personally I think they've gone too far but I think the same with bunchy musculatures and bloated guts.

The death mask conditioning is pretty much required to win any significant competition in the NPC/IFBB/CBBF.

[Praetorian]

Good post, but dosen`t change the fact that the people I see who are getting ready for a show look like death. And most don`t even do that much cardio. And they gave "guru`s" telling them how to eat and train. I think we just, as it`s been pointed out find different looks acceptable and others not so...

I agree completely...as these so called "gurus" have little to no applicable knowledge or experience. That is why i said as long as they are on a decent diet program.
P

[Ritch]

I agree completely...as these so called "gurus" have little to no applicable knowledge or experience. That is why i said as long as they are on a decent diet program.
P

Prae, by saying that it sounds like you think that you`re the only one who can pull off or give out a decent diet. And if the person didn`t work with you, they didnt`have a decent diet and that`s why 2 hours of cardio didn`t work for them. Sure you didn`t say that, but that`s what if sounds like. I truely respect you and appreciate your posts here, but gotta disagree with you here.

You like the death mask look, I and a bunch of people don`t... Another reason competitive bbìng will never make it big. It`s a tiny sub culture, it`s just not marketable.

People like good looking people... Dennis Newman was the last chance bodybuilding had to reach the mainstream. Heath is a new "perhaps" then again like the others, I`m willing to bet his gut will get "turtle ish" in time, marking him off the list like all the others.

[JonnyO]

Last show I was up to 35 minutes cardio a day. few guys i train right now for shows arent doing more than that either. But everyone is different and those that compete do what they have to do, Im sure their families understand that for the time being or else they wouldnt be doing it. Being a good bodybuilder is about self discipline and dedication. If your not into that look a well conditioned bodybuilder carries those last few weeks then so be it, I dont see the need to make a thread about it at all.

[Ritch]

I dont see the need to make a thread about it at all.

Maybe you should ask a certain somebody that question? Just kidding big guy, well maybe not...

[JonnyO]

I agree completely...as these so called "gurus" have little to no applicable knowledge or experience. That is why i said as long as they are on a decent diet program.
P


Agreed. See it all the time and I wonder why some guys keep working with the same person over and over again and get nowhere.

I am not satisfied unless my clients do well and make progress, probably why I will not work with just anybody. Its not just about making a buck for me.

[bigtavi8]

am i a string bean at 205 dam near constant ready? I do 3hs a day and 1.5 training. **** balance. Its all or nothing. Do you want to compete or be a swimmer. Choose one. Not everything in life worth having is easy to get or everyone would do it. Do i wish i had superman metabolism and could get a way with none. Of course but the reality is i cant. Ya i look flat and stringy and depleted but let me carb up for a day or two and look out.

[Ritch]

So if it`s all or nothing I take it you`re gonna turn pro one day? ^^^

[liquidfire]

LOL @ most of this thread. I powerlift and do as little cardio as possible. I think most reasonable people can agree that 2 hours of cardio per day is neither desirable nor reasonable to reach any level of leaness.


seriously?

Greg Doucette (correct me if I am wrong, Greg/Steve) trains like a powerlifter and had a bodybuilding physique.

If he trained like a powerlifter he'd be a whole hell of a lot stronger (not to say he is not freaky strong right now) and wouldn't bomb out cuz he doesn't know how to use his gear.

From what I have seen and heard, he trains like a bodybuilder with powerlifting equipment.

[Andre Gregoire]

I asked the original question in Praetorian's thread because he is a respected, top national level, experienced competitor and trainer.

Nate and Praetorian are correct in pointing out that Ritch took this out of context, I was asking whether in Prae's experience the natural bodybuilders he trained were able to retain LBM while doing 2 hours of LISS cardio per day in preparation for a bodybuilding contest.

I have been in this game for a long time, I have competed and even prepped a few guys and I have done 2 hours of cardio per day. I wasn't really interested in Ritch's opinion I was looking for Prae's opinion based on his extensive EXPERIENCE.

However, I did find it funny that Ritch had to balls to answer questions in Prae's thread and state very factually that I shouldn't do this or I would look like a string-bean.

When I started bodybuilding 17 yrs ago, I was constantly bombarded with myths and one of them is that cardio will starve off muscle and to avoid it as much as possible. I was scared to do too much cardio when prepping but when I was late for a show I said screw it and let the cardio get up to 2 hours per day for the last 4-6 weeks and it wasn't as catabolic as I figured it would be and it enabled me to get ripped on time.

I am an endo-meso and I look better doing more cardio and eating more calories as opposed to no cardio/less calories.

I agree with the guys that 2hrs of cardio isn't needed and it's best to stay leaner off-season and start dieting earlier but the point is if you are late or hit a plateau 2hrs of LOW-INTENSITY cardio won't cause your muscles to fall off.

[Ritch]

I asked the original question in Praetorian's thread because he is a respected, top national level, experienced competitor and trainer.

Nate and Praetorian are correct in pointing out that Ritch took this out of context, I was asking whether in Prae's experience the natural bodybuilders he trained were able to retain LBM while doing 2 hours of LISS cardio per day in preparation for a bodybuilding contest.

I have been in this game for a long time, I have competed and even prepped a few guys and I have done 2 hours of cardio per day. I wasn't really interested in Ritch's opinion I was looking for Prae's opinion based on his extensive EXPERIENCE.

However, I did find it funny that Ritch had to balls to answer questions in Prae's thread and state very factually that I shouldn't do this or I would look like a string-bean.

When I started bodybuilding 17 yrs ago, I was constantly bombarded with myths and one of them is that cardio will starve off muscle and to avoid it as much as possible. I was scared to do too much cardio when prepping but when I was late for a show I said screw it and let the cardio get up to 2 hours per day for the last 4-6 weeks and it wasn't as catabolic as I figured it would be and it enabled me to get ripped on time.

I am an endo-meso and I look better doing more cardio and eating more calories as opposed to no cardio/less calories.

I agree with the guys that 2hrs of cardio isn't needed and it's best to stay leaner off-season and start dieting earlier but the point is if you are late or hit a plateau 2hrs of LOW-INTENSITY cardio won't cause your muscles to fall off.

I`m not the first to answer a question in P`s thread, so how about calling out everyone else who has also? I`m an ecto meso, see where I`m comming from? Do what you gotta do I guess.

Can you not read? Nate requested this thread.

Chill out.

[Praetorian]

Prae, by saying that it sounds like you think that you`re the only one who can pull off or give out a decent diet. And if the person didn`t work with you, they didnt`have a decent diet and that`s why 2 hours of cardio didn`t work for them. Sure you didn`t say that, but that`s what if sounds like. I truely respect you and appreciate your posts here, but gotta disagree with you here.

You like the death mask look, I and a bunch of people don`t... Another reason competitive bbìng will never make it big. It`s a tiny sub culture, it`s just not marketable.

People like good looking people... Dennis Newman was the last chance bodybuilding had to reach the mainstream. Heath is a new "perhaps" then again like the others, I`m willing to bet his gut will get "turtle ish" in time, marking him off the list like all the others.

LOL far from it...I am definitely not the only prep guy out there who pulls it off or gets his clients in shape. There are many out there that I respect, that I have worked with, and that I would consider top notch. What I am saying is that there are many on the other side of the coin as well...as JohnnyO pointed out. I ve seen it hundreds of times myself and I ve seen guys end up in the ER because of stupid advice from a so called guru. I am not really sure what you mean by the death mask look...if its being extremely lean then really there is no choice...you cant spot reduce so the point is moot. Newman and Heath are freaks...what we mortals do doesnt apply to them.
To be truthful its not about what we like or want to look like etc...if you want to be successful in BB you display the look the judges are rewarding athletes for...if that isnt what you want to do thats your choice...just dont be pissed off with being out of the top five. At the moment the look is shredded, dry, and hard as nails. It may change in years to come it may not...but for now thats what they are looking for...like it or not.
P

[Ritch]

Well there`s just no way to not like this Prae fellow is there? LOL!!!

[Talo]

Really I can't beleive your talking about this.

This is a bodybuilding site and their are more members on here that actually do compete then any other board I've been on. They do what has to be done , yes some up to or over 2hrs of cardio , but that is what they have to do to step on stage. And if you have never done a show , don't talk .

Why would you come on here and say that they look bad , they put so much work into it and they should get nothing but respect and complements on how they look and what they have done.

Maybe you should post up your picture since you think your in such good shape and look like what a bodybuilder should look like.

[Ritch]

^^^ So I should compliment an anorexic because that person did what they had to do to look thin as well?

I train covered up, walk the streets covered up. It`s just how I am. In my 20`s I was much different, shakes head... Why the hell would I undress just to take some pics? I don`t even have a cell phone or camera. I know where I stand. Besides I`d feel like a total tool asking one of my friends to take pics of me half naked. Them knowing me and how I am, they wouldn`t think I was being serious, lol...

And admit I`m not at a level where I`d make an impact competing. Maybe natural which I am, but it`s not something I`d be satisfied with. I`d like to be a good 210 ripped on stage. Not this year... And natural, I don`t think ever.

I`m just stating my opinion. As far as I can tell there`s no rule against that.

But I do respect the dicipline, just don`t like the look. Fair enough? Not everyone on a bodybuilding site has to dig that kind of thing...

[Talo]

^^^ So I should compliment an anorexic because that person did what they had to do to look thin as well?

Yes you should or don't say anything at all.

[baza]

The day I do even an hour cardio, plus weights, is the day I stop going to the gym and caring about my body.

[Delt King]

Well it seems everybodys got an opinion on this topic. First let me also say that doing 2 hours of cardio combined with the proper diet it is possible to maintain LBM while cutting. Now as Prae has aleady said nobody starts at 2 hours of cardio...most of my clients started with none at all and i added it in slowly when it was needed. I in fact did no cardio at all last year when i won the ontarios at 175.5lbs (i guess i'm a stringy bean pole lol) So i also say it isn't needed unless it's actually needed.
I'm now sitting at 189lbs at 5 foot 10 and with clothes on i still have people regularly commenting and asking me questions when i walk in anywhere including grocery stores, walmart, the local mall, gas stations etc etc. so compared to the majority of people including those in gyms i'm considered a freak. and i wouldn't have it any other way. lol
anyway the look of a contest shape bodybuilder is very temporary and needed to be successfull. Some people also don't get a super drawn look as much as others.
If Ritch doesn't like the look that's ok too. This sport isn't for everybody nor do i ever see it going mainstream.

[Victor85]

For those of you who think 2 hours of cardio is a good thing, I ask the following to you: You think people who are dying of cancer look good? Well that`s how the majority of people who do that end up looking. That or an aids patient. Sexy...

Of course your circle of bodybuilding friends won`t tell you that... They`ll be like, "hey bro, those ripped glutes of yours are awesome!" Simply blinded by the sucked in cheeks and bugged out eyes you have. You look like death. Seriously, it`s beyond gross and horrifyingly ugly. I`m sure 95% of the people would agree with me. But since this is a bodybuilding site, I`m not expecting much backing here by anybody... But it seems that flat stringy look is appraised as "ripped"...

The guys on steroids can get away with this better of course... Maybe a few natural as well. And I have absolutely nothing against that (the steroid use) But those of you who approve this "look" are into competiting. A very, very small minority here. As I`ve said many times, I love bodybuilding, having a body that`s better than the huge majority of people, and 2 hours of cardio is borderline if not plain insanity. Then I hear people say "My life is balanced... Sure it is, 2 hours of cardio and 1 hour of training is "perfect balance", lol. It`s all a matter of perception and that is mine.

Go ahead, I`ve got my flame suit on...

I am not competing in no bodybuilding show, but I still know that people doing 2 hours a day of cardio, are more or less getting near their comps, and that they need to get rid of fat %s and/or look ready for the stage. If u aint competing and doing this crazy ass cardio then u are borderline nearing "plain insanity". That aint balanced. IMO

[JonnyO]

Ritch, didnt you say something along the lines of if you train like a bodybuilder you should look like one?

How do you train? And why do you cover yourself up all the time?

You also mentioned something earlier like a bodybuilder or some all dieted down with their clothes on you wouldnt be able to tell they even worked out...we all know its whats beneath the clothes that counts...

[natenator]

^^^ So I should compliment an anorexic because that person did what they had to do to look thin as well?

I train covered up, walk the streets covered up. It`s just how I am. In my 20`s I was much different, shakes head... Why the hell would I undress just to take some pics? I don`t even have a cell phone or camera. I know where I stand. Besides I`d feel like a total tool asking one of my friends to take pics of me half naked. Them knowing me and how I am, they wouldn`t think I was being serious, lol...

And admit I`m not at a level where I`d make an impact competing. Maybe natural which I am, but it`s not something I`d be satisfied with. I`d like to be a good 210 ripped on stage. Not this year... And natural, I don`t think ever.

I`m just stating my opinion. As far as I can tell there`s no rule against that.

But I do respect the dicipline, just don`t like the look. Fair enough? Not everyone on a bodybuilding site has to dig that kind of thing...
didn't you do a cycle?

You are not natural so don't give me this bullshit that you are natural. You stuck a needle full of steroidal hormones in you... NOT natural.

[btufts]

You asked if I was super lean a few pages back yes, I was my leanest I had ever been about 3 weeks out from my contest and I was doing 2 hours cardio a day with limited diet. I definately didn't look like a bean pole at 172.5lbs at 5'10 my legs were still porportionate and my lats made me look wide with my 28" waist. Bb'ing is all an illusion weight really doesn't mean anything. I'm 205 right now still with 6 pack but I wish I was close to that freaky lean, I can see what I just ate look. My girlfriend loves it too, i would much rather be lghter and ripped to bits all year than big bloaty **** look 9 months of the year.

[L3]

at 190lbs ppl at my gym thought i was over 220....

[btufts]

at 190lbs ppl at my gym thought i was over 220....

Agreed, at 180 I was hearing 200, at 205 lean I've been getting 220-230

[Ritch]

Ritch, didnt you say something along the lines of if you train like a bodybuilder you should look like one?

How do you train? And why do you cover yourself up all the time?

You also mentioned something earlier like a bodybuilder or some all dieted down with their clothes on you wouldnt be able to tell they even worked out...we all know its whats beneath the clothes that counts...

I`ve been at this for a long time JonnyO. I`m not the biggest or most ripped but am usually one of the better physiques in the gym at any given time. And I usually compare myself to guys on gear.

Why I cover myself? I know I`ve got big legs and it embarasses me when I walk in public and I hear and see people talk and point. I should take it as a compliment, but I`m very shy about it. I`d hate for others to think I`m a show off. I know, who cares what others think, lol.. It`s to the point now I don`t even wear a sleevesless t shirt anymore. I ever prefer to wear darker colored shirts as a white shirt, well, nevermind...

Also I use public transportation and would just feel like a narcistic fool wearing a tank top. I mean nobody is built in when you use the system (most people like maybe one in 1000, and don`t want to feel singled out like that.

And again about me posting a pic? Pfff, no matter how good I am, I know there are many here just waiting to rip me to pieces...
Could go on and on about this one...

[baza]

Why I cover myself? I know I`ve got big legs and it embarasses me when I walk in public and I hear and see people talk and point. I should take it as a compliment, but I`m very shy about it. I`d hate for others to think I`m a show off.

Maybe they are pointing because you're wearing cut off jean shorts? There are thousands of people with huge legs, and as long as you aren't wearing cut off jean shorts, people won't even notice lol. That really made no sense.

You seem to have some insecurities and are too worried about what everyone thinks.

[Talo]

but am usually one of the better physiques in the gym at any given time. And I usually compare myself to guys on gear.

I guess that's debateble.

[natenator]

I guess that's debateble.
true. It's not hard to look good at Curves or Shapes or whatever the male version of those places are.

[ironwill]

true. It's not hard to look good at Curves or Shapes or whatever the male version of those places are.

Awesome....Thanks for the tip......:beer:gayfight

[natenator]

Awesome....Thanks for the tip......:beer:gayfight

unless she trains there...http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_FpTXDkEdJQk/S-S2HRSUwDI/AAAAAAAAAhc/63OBWfXF6o4/s320/DSCF1651.JPG

[ironwill]

then you dont use the tip....you use the whole thing!!! so much to teach, so lil time yung uns....sigh!!!

[japh]

Sadly.....there aren't any girls like that at my gym for me to gawk at quietly using the mirror like a creeper...sigh...

[L3]

id let her beat me up any day