View Full Version : Muhammed Ali, Mike Tyson and Sugar Ray Leonard...
natenator
14-06-2010, 04:56 PM
Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ki4UKsI8bms&feature=related
Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMfZ86oUcSI&feature=related
I love this.
Nice to see such respect paid to the true greatest of all time.
riccosuabe
14-06-2010, 05:45 PM
i remember watchin this years ago,i love ali,and he did a lot for the sport but imo i think sugar ray robinson was the greatest,and id have ali tied with marciano in 2nd.ali always gets the votes because of who he was,he's an iconic figure and gets voted top by guys who dont even watch boxing imho
rob66679
14-06-2010, 05:50 PM
i remember watchin this years ago,i love ali,and he did a lot for the sport but imo i think sugar ray robinson was the greatest,and id have ali tied with marciano in 2nd
Not a real big Marciano fan.
He didn't have the opposition that Ali faced, not even close really. And at 185 lbs with the shortest reach of all heavyweight champs, I don't think he'd last long in todays game with 250 lbs 6'6 guys.
Maybe a top 3 Crusier though........
riccosuabe
14-06-2010, 07:05 PM
Not a real big Marciano fan.
He didn't have the opposition that Ali faced, not even close really. And at 185 lbs with the shortest reach of all heavyweight champs, I don't think he'd last long in todays game with 250 lbs 6'6 guys.
Maybe a top 3 Crusier though........
and you seriously think ali would??its stupid saying this fighter from so many years ago could beat someone of today because the sport and fighters in general have come ten fold.its like saying larry scott or arnold could get top 10 at the olympia now!!hell even majority of amateur heavyweights today could beat arnold.you have to look at the opposition they faced and the conditions etc.marciano wore 6 oz gloves ali wore 12 oz.and i bet a million dollars marciano hit harder than ali,he used to train with a 400 pnd bag and rock that thing like it was nothing!!c'mon ali got rocked off henry cooper ffs and was lucky they carried the count or else it would have been a ko.and your going on opposition,who did ali face?foreman and frazier,they were brawlers at best and made ali look good.hes awesome dont get me wrong but not the best imo
and you seriously think ali would??its stupid saying this fighter from so many years ago could beat someone of today because the sport and fighters in general have come ten fold.its like saying larry scott or arnold could get top 10 at the olympia now!!hell even majority of amateur heavyweights today could beat arnold.you have to look at the opposition they faced and the conditions etc.marciano wore 6 oz gloves ali wore 12 oz.and i bet a million dollars marciano hit harder than ali,he used to train with a 400 pnd bag and rock that thing like it was nothing!!c'mon ali got rocked off henry cooper ffs and was lucky they carried the count or else it would have been a ko.and your going on opposition,who did ali face?foreman and frazier,they were brawlers at best and made ali look good.hes awesome dont get me wrong but not the best imo
Cooper said that in his rematch with Ali he was amazed at how much his defense had improved...he couldn't touch him.Everbody loses a fight.Ali's speed and footwork...the best.
Arnold used miniscule amounts of drugs compared to today's pros.No implants,no synthol,insulin or nightime IV GH drips for Arnold.
rob66679
14-06-2010, 10:01 PM
and you seriously think ali would??its stupid saying this fighter from so many years ago could beat someone of today because the sport and fighters in general have come ten fold.its like saying larry scott or arnold could get top 10 at the olympia now!!hell even majority of amateur heavyweights today could beat arnold.you have to look at the opposition they faced and the conditions etc.marciano wore 6 oz gloves ali wore 12 oz.and i bet a million dollars marciano hit harder than ali,he used to train with a 400 pnd bag and rock that thing like it was nothing!!c'mon ali got rocked off henry cooper ffs and was lucky they carried the count or else it would have been a ko.and your going on opposition,who did ali face?foreman and frazier,they were brawlers at best and made ali look good.hes awesome dont get me wrong but not the best imo
He was the best of his time, but that was an extremely weak time. I understand that the most you can really do is be the best for your era, and Marciano was that. But a prime Joe Louis beats him, hell even a prime walcott..... both were well into their 30's when they fought. And Marciano got pretty lucky in the Walcott fight.
I'm no Ali bag licker.... But he fought at least 3 guys who would have beaten Marciano... Foreman, Frasier and Liston. Marciano was a brawler at best, and how well would he do against a brawler at least 3 inch's taller and 30 lbs heavier? Ali and Marciano were only about 10 years apart..... Pretty much the same era.
Ali started off it was still probably 6 oz gloves, it's 10 right now and I'm pretty sure it was 8 up until the 80's. Even amateur was never 12, at least in North America.
So why do you think Marciano is the best of all time?
pseclint
15-06-2010, 02:17 AM
Heres a good Tyson clip
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bEVFOAQyRk&feature=fvw
riccosuabe
15-06-2010, 06:34 AM
He was the best of his time, but that was an extremely weak time. I understand that the most you can really do is be the best for your era, and Marciano was that. But a prime Joe Louis beats him, hell even a prime walcott..... both were well into their 30's when they fought. And Marciano got pretty lucky in the Walcott fight.
I'm no Ali bag licker.... But he fought at least 3 guys who would have beaten Marciano... Foreman, Frasier and Liston. Marciano was a brawler at best, and how well would he do against a brawler at least 3 inch's taller and 30 lbs heavier? Ali and Marciano were only about 10 years apart..... Pretty much the same era.
Ali started off it was still probably 6 oz gloves, it's 10 right now and I'm pretty sure it was 8 up until the 80's. Even amateur was never 12, at least in North America.
So why do you think Marciano is the best of all time?
i never said marciano was the greatest,i said ray robinson was,who if you know anything about ali,was ali's inspiration and he tried to mimick his style.i think with fighters its what kind of a fighter you like to watch.i grew up watchin marciano,dempsey,jack johnson,jess willard etc and those guys were REAL fighters.fought for hardly any money and probably lived really below par standard lives.but they would fight for nearly double the rounds pros in our era did and they were toe to toe battles in the red hot sun not dance around and be defensive for 5-6 rounds kind of fights.to me thats a fighter,ali was great but to say marciano never fought real calibre,he was 49-0-0 in a time when people really came to bang!!and imho his challengers were no greater than ali's.but neither of them are as good as sugar ray robinson.for his time he was light years ahead!!
evoke
15-06-2010, 08:19 PM
good video. thx.
rob66679
15-06-2010, 11:06 PM
i never said marciano was the greatest,i said ray robinson was,who if you know anything about ali,was ali's inspiration and he tried to mimick his style.i think with fighters its what kind of a fighter you like to watch.i grew up watchin marciano,dempsey,jack johnson,jess willard etc and those guys were REAL fighters.fought for hardly any money and probably lived really below par standard lives.but they would fight for nearly double the rounds pros in our era did and they were toe to toe battles in the red hot sun not dance around and be defensive for 5-6 rounds kind of fights.to me thats a fighter,ali was great but to say marciano never fought real calibre,he was 49-0-0 in a time when people really came to bang!!and imho his challengers were no greater than ali's.but neither of them are as good as sugar ray robinson.for his time he was light years ahead!!
Of the 49 wins, who was any good?
Foreman, Liston and Joe Frasier were all linear heavyweight champs. His challengers were no better than Ali's? Cmon man.
Marciano was tough, and he could hit. But thats about it.
riccosuabe
16-06-2010, 05:23 AM
Of the 49 wins, who was any good?
archie moore,ezzard charles,don cockell,roland lastarza,walcott and louis (they wernt that finished and still coulda finished the top guys) all were credible fighters of there day.he had a ko rate of 88% not many people have that kind of finish rate even today.
and ali's opponents:
sonny liston - 50-4-0 and ali and patterson(who was a rubbish champion)were his best fights.
joe frazier - 32-4-1 best fights were ali,foreman and bugner??
george foreman - 76-5-0 the better of the three with best fights being frazier,norton and ali and imo fought better quality of opponents after ali.
and no one ever mentions ken norton regarding ali?he was his toughest opponent in his prime imho
i think people rate ali's fights because of the media circus that he was,no doubt a truly great fighter i just dont think he was the greatest,robinson all the way for me
natenator
16-06-2010, 07:41 AM
I will go back to what I said about the greatest BBers thread in that to be considered great or the best you, in my eyes, had to bring something different to the table. More than just wins.
As Arnold and Dorian revolutionized and revamped their sports so to did Ali. That's what makes him the greatest. He took boxing from being about fighting to being about the mind. His techniques are STILL employed today. Anyone can fight. Few can box.
http://i46.tinypic.com/z09jl.gif
riccosuabe
16-06-2010, 08:20 AM
http://a8.vietbao.vn/images/vn75/tong-hop/75108080-_42451513_ali4.jpg
bear in mind cooper was proper pants!!!and he was given nearly 5 mins to get over this ko
(Cooper fought Muhammad Ali twice, firstly in a non-title fight in 1963 at Wembley Stadium, when Cooper knocked Clay down in the dying seconds of the fourth round with his trademark left hook, "Enry's 'Ammer". The bell rang before Cooper could try to complete a knockout. Clay was literally, "saved by the bell." Prior to the fight Clay's trainer Angelo Dundee had noticed a small tear in one of Clay's gloves but didn't bring it to the referee's attention. With Clay now staggered from the knock down, Dundee opened up the tear with his finger and told the referee that his fighter needed a new pair of gloves, thus delaying the start of the 5th round. Cooper has always insisted that this delay lasted anywhere from 3–5 minutes and denied him the chance to try to knock Clay out while he was still dazed. In reality it has been shown that Clay only received an extra six seconds, and the gloves were not replaced. When the 5th round started Clay ferociously attacked Cooper's cuts, leaving Cooper's face streaming with blood and referee Tommy Little was forced to stop the fight in the American's favour.
After this fight a spare pair of gloves was always required at ringside. What is certain however, is that Dundee broke a phial containing an unknown substance and held it under Clay's nose in an effort to revive his man, which was illegal.[6] Clay was obviously impressed by the knockdown and on the 40th anniversary telephoned Cooper to reminisce. Clay who had changed his name to Muhammad Ali in 1964, later said, on British television, that Cooper "had hit [him] so hard that his ancestors in Africa felt it". In 1966 they met a second time at Arsenal Stadium in London to contest the world title. Cooper was defeated again by Ali.)
how times would've been different if they had actually counted him out.
and nate im curious at how you can elaborate that ALI revolutionised boxing?sugar ray robinson was doing what he was doing way before him who do you think he copied from,jack johnson was playing rope a dope even earlier and mind games weren't ali's invention they've been employed as far back as we can journal.if ali hadn't caused the controversy he did i guarantee he wouldn't be classed as the greatest just one of them
rob66679
16-06-2010, 08:36 AM
archie moore,ezzard charles,don cockell,roland lastarza,walcott and louis (they wernt that finished and still coulda finished the top guys) all were credible fighters of there day.he had a ko rate of 88% not many people have that kind of finish rate even today.
and ali's opponents:
sonny liston - 50-4-0 and ali and patterson(who was a rubbish champion)were his best fights.
joe frazier - 32-4-1 best fights were ali,foreman and bugner??
george foreman - 76-5-0 the better of the three with best fights being frazier,norton and ali and imo fought better quality of opponents after ali.
and no one ever mentions ken norton regarding ali?he was his toughest opponent in his prime imho
i think people rate ali's fights because of the media circus that he was,no doubt a truly great fighter i just dont think he was the greatest,robinson all the way for me
Ezzard Charles never fought higher than 185 lbs, and had 25 losses.
Joe Louis was after he came out of retirement to pay off his back taxes..... Not even close to any kind of prime. He was 37 years old in his 69th fight.
Walcott was 38 YO in his 70th fight.....
When Ali fought Foreman, Liston & Frasier he was the underdog. Nobody gave him a chance, those guys were the big dogs like Tyson was in the 80's.
Marciano never went into a fight being an underdog like that.
I guess the thing that sticks out about Ali to me is that he could have given any heavyweight in any era hell, if not flat out beat them. Even in todays game with 6'6 250 lbs guys.
I'm not talking about the post suspension, rope-a-dope ali but the young, fast prime one. He had one of the best chins of all time but at that time he didn't have to use it.
To each his own I guess.
rob66679
16-06-2010, 08:43 AM
I will go back to what I said about the greatest BBers thread in that to be considered great or the best you, in my eyes, had to bring something different to the table. More than just wins.
As Arnold and Dorian revolutionized and revamped their sports so to did Ali. That's what makes him the greatest. He took boxing from being about fighting to being about the mind. His techniques are STILL employed today. Anyone can fight. Few can box.
Good post.
A trainer told me once pretty much the same thing, he said that anybody can throw a punch.
But not getting hit, defence, thats the art form. And thats where boxing has really evolved over the years is in defence... Ali did have a big part in it.
I still have not seen many people with as much will to win either. He literally was beaten half to death in a few fights, and is paying for it now. Those fights with Frasier...still makes me shake my head.
But he had NO quit in him at all, you would have had to kill him.
riccosuabe
16-06-2010, 10:31 AM
Ezzard Charles never fought higher than 185 lbs, and had 25 losses.
ezzard fought above 185lbs loads of times if you check his record.infact the first marciano fight was ezzard 185 1/2 rocky 187 1/2. and the second fight was ezzard 192 1/2 rocky 187.and ezzard had only been beat 10 times when he fought marciano?
Just check Ali's progeny.
rob66679
17-06-2010, 09:47 AM
Just check Ali's progeny.
Over rated lol.
rob66679
17-06-2010, 03:26 PM
Isn't she undefeated?
She is/was, but she ducked Ann Wolfe and Lucia Ryker ( who played the ass kicker in million dollar baby ) for years. I don't know if I would want to fight ryker, she fights like a man lol.... a tough one. Check out the link...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4eplLem4jPs
She did beat Cristy Martin, but at 160 lbs .... Martins a natural 130-140, her fight before Ali was at was at 140 and after at 135.
Its deceiving, kind of like when you look at Butterbeans record.
I wouldn't want to be married to that chick.Could she catch Layla with that amount of windup?
rob66679
18-06-2010, 01:10 AM
I wouldn't want to be married to that chick.Could she catch Layla with that amount of windup?
Dunno... Laila didn't want to find out though.
Theres a bunch of her fights on youtube, she fought a man once ( she got knocked out COLD ).
Theres vids of her training, she's got great technique too.
Ann Wolfe was one tough bitch too....
natenator
18-06-2010, 08:10 AM
couldn't they have done that to his right side, away from his heart?
Man, that stupid ****ing shit some people are willing to do.
guest
18-06-2010, 01:24 PM
so a leaping left hook has more power than a straight left?
still an awesome punch for a woman.
Nate, i am doubting he wanted his liver smashed.
O-Train
18-06-2010, 04:57 PM
She is/was, but she ducked Ann Wolfe and Lucia Ryker ( who played the ass kicker in million dollar baby ) for years. I don't know if I would want to fight ryker, she fights like a man lol.... a tough one. Check out the link...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4eplLem4jPs
She did beat Cristy Martin, but at 160 lbs .... Martins a natural 130-140, her fight before Ali was at was at 140 and after at 135.
Its deceiving, kind of like when you look at Butterbeans record.
Take a look at the gloves they're wearing and the amount of padding on the gloves. They look totally different to me.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.1 Copyright © 2026 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.