The Journey For Size

[chiplin]

Hey guys, I'm graduating school right away and in about a month I'm going to be working at my hardest to put on some more mass and hopefully find some sort of bodybuilding activity within my future. I've only ever lifted for myself and to achieve my goals, I understand you still have to set goals as a bodybuilder, but what are some other overlooked things on the verge of being a bodybuilder ? Eating, Recovery, and hard work are obviously a must, but what about supplementation ? Training times, how many times to train a day, a week ? I'm really anxious and any input would be great. Thanks guys.

[Jazzy]

If you want to put mass...The more imporant is the diets, after the training and the rest( 8 hours minimum) and for supplementation..If you have a good diets, a good training and a good rest..It can be a must, like a whey protein right after your training for muscle recovery and building, creatine for strenght and muscle building, and of course, the basis: multi-vitamines and fish oil!

for training, I prefer split training, Doing 12-15 sets for larger muscles groups( pecs,back,shoulder ans traps,quads and hams) ans small group, 8-12( biceps,triceps,calves) You can do one larger muscles with a small one, like this:

monday: pec/biceps
tuesday: back/triceps
wednesday: off
thursday: legs
friday: shoulder/traps

it's depend of your goals too and how you eat and rest, but 4 days is can be good is your work really really hard!..Theere a lot of way of how to separate training, some people prefer doing chest with triceps because the trieceps are pre-exausted!

Also, put emphasis on compound exercice such as bench press,deadlift,squat,shoulder press, BB curl, close grip bench press, shrugs for traps..etc!

How many times to train, around 1h30 maximum, with a good warm-up in the begining and strech after...Weighttraining around 45min-1h15!^^

[chiplin]

So it's just a matter of doing what I'm doing now, which is basic weight training, and putting it into better goals and making my diet more strict. I've read some articles and talked to some people and I've heard more than once that if it was like a Back/Biceps day, they'd do the larger muscle in the afternoon then go back in the evening and do the smaller one. Is this efficient ?

[Jazzy]

Good too, but I think you workout won't be really long..because like you said, back take maybe 30 minutes to do..if it's not less..it's depend if you superset, you rest between sets or superset..etc

but, there also this thing, like, you go to the gym in the morning, doing for exampls light hamstring..the evening quadriceps, the next, light quads and hamstring

or, you can do, the morning, chest, and the afternoon, back...etc.. but Agreeing to me, If i was training like that, I'll do more sets for each muscles because you can focus on the muscles you want and destroy him :P and relax and the afternoon and after, doing anoter muscles group!

I'm not an expect in the double-split training, maybe someone can help us better!:)

[ubcpower]

consistency

[japh]

I'd follow a basic powerbuilding routine to start concentrating on form and SMALL consistent gains. 5 sets of 5 type of routine.

I'd concentrate on compound movements only with just one maybe 2 isolation exercises to end the routine.

I would end each routine with some bodybuilding intensity techniques. Using a compound movement. rest-pause, drop sets, tabata, etc etc

I'd do this cosistently for years and learn what my body responds to the best.

[chiplin]

Sorry for this bump boys, but I figured I've been making enough threads lately. Anyways. For size, the best way for growth is to hit complete failure on every set, correct ? I've also heard increasing every set and hitting failure on all of those is also effective, which would you recommend ? I've been training for about 15 months in total now so I wouldn't say I'm a beginner anymore.


For stretching, what are some stretches for each muscle group ? Stretch for about 45-60 seconds after that muscles workout is completed right ?

Negatives, does anyone designate a set JUST for negatives ? Or do you get a spotter to help you devastate your muscle further by doing a few ? How often do you do them ?

Final thing, for partials or "X-reps" how often should one do them ? At the end of every exercise, or the last set of your last exercise for that muscle group ?

[tiramisu]

1. no training to failure is not the best way for growth.
2. increasing every set and hitting failure on all is not terribly effective
3. duration of training has nothing to do with whether you are a beginner or not.
4. Not really sure what you are trying to stretch or why.
5. negatives are generally not a useful technique for a novice.

The best definition I have seen for a novice is a trainee for whom a linear program is no longer effective. For most people that's somewhere around 1.5x bodyweight on the bench, 2x bodyweight on the squat, and 2.25x bodyweight on the deadlift. Not scientific but roughly.

A novice trainee will put on the most muscle using a strength based program that emphasizes heavy compound lifting (not to failure). Rippetoe's Starting strength, Bill Starr's 5x5, etc in combination with excess calories (gallon of milk a day over the normal eating pattern).

This is generally good for a 1-2 years although you would likely be floating into an advanced novice program after a year to 18 months.

As a rule the more advanced a program is the LESS effective it is in terms of speed in increasing strength or mass. Intermediate and Advanced programs are designed to allow stronger athletes the time that their CNS and muscles need to recover as the result of them both being stronger and that their bodies require more stimulus as they get closer to their physical potential.

[Ritch]

monday: pec/biceps
tuesday: back/triceps
wednesday: off
thursday: legs
friday: shoulder/traps

How many times to train, around 1h30 maximum, with a good warm-up in the begining and strech after...Weighttraining around 45min-1h15!^^

I know splits are highly individual but back and triceps? That`s gotta be alot of sets there. Also why would you train biceps the day before back?

[Jazzy]

Yeah, I know it's a bit weird doing biceps the day before you do back! I did it and work well for me, yeah, sometimes, I was sore, but my coach did my program like this..I'll answer him why! maybe, It would be better like this

monday:Chest/biceps
tuesday:legs
wednesday: off
thursday: back/triceps
friday:shoulder/traps

for back/triceps, because My triceps were full of energy because they don't play a lot in back mouvement, if even not..So, I can hit my triceps with all my strenght and energy! it worked well to..but doing back/biceps too can be good, but I think they can be pre-exhausted, even if you concentrate a lot on your back. So, doing this, Each muscle was fresh!^^ and for lot of sets, I'm around 12-15 sets for big muscles group like back, and for smaller muscles, between 8-12 reps! My training last around 1h30 with 15-20 warm-up and strecthing after and rest no more than 1min30

[shredded_Tris]

Dude I would switch it at least to Chest and Tris, Then Back and Bi's thats if I wouldnt change anything else.
Why would you do it this way?
When you work chest your hitting your triceps and they are all push movements so put them on the same day. Do Chest first then Tri's
When you work your back, your Bi's and getting engaged so why not do biceps after back on that day, plus that makes that workout all pulling motion. It's called a push/pull split. I think you may find it works a little better

[Jazzy]

Yeah, I know this, but it's my coach that makes my taining program, but I read a lot to understand and learn new things!

That's a good point Shredded_tris, Yeah, doing chest/triceps in the same days are good, because triceps works too, but they are pre-exhausted, so they aren't fresh when you hit your set of triceps because when you blast you chest, tricpes plays too, so doing them in another day when they're fresh, you'll have all you strength and put more weight with you exercice!

But, it's different, for me I prefer doing them like this, but maybe I'll try the push/pull split and see how my muscles respond!^^

Thanx! :)

[shredded_Tris]

No Worries man
Hope it works for ya

[Jazzy]

It works, but Now, I'm doing somethings very differents, German body composition!..LOLL

Legs and Chest day 1...O_O .:D kind of crazy! LOLL