Bulking Cycle to Cutting Cycle: Need Opinions

[smithmitchelle]

So the cycle is Test/Deca for 12 Weeks and I was thinking of throwing a cutting cycle and extending my test while adding clen and maybe t4 with a couple shots of hcg in the transition period to perk things up.

It would go like this.

Bulking (12 Weeks):
Test -12 weeks - 500mg/w
Deca - 10 weeks - 400mg/w

Transition Phase (2-3 Weeks):

HCG - 2-3 weeks -250iu/ed
Thinking: 3 weeks Fareston 60mg/d or Nolva 20mg/d
Test - 3 weeks 250mg/w

Cutting Cycle (8 Weeks):

Clen: 2/2 weeks on/off with ECA
Kyto: as needed to keep beta receptors up and going
Test: - 8 Weeks - 250 mg/w

end with: Nolva/Fareston
-----------------------------------------

What do you think I should change?? I would Ideally like minimal muscle loss but will accept a small loss to get right into cutting. I'm thinking the Test will be running long but the HCG will help boot start it half way through and let me keep going.

:fback

[Memo]

i was thinking of doing that in the past but too many people told me you need to let your muscle mature a bit before you cut or you will loose too much.

[PdH]

i was thinking of doing that in the past but too many people told me you need to let your muscle mature a bit before you cut or you will loose too much.

Which is very true. You need at least 8 weeks between a bulking and cutting cycle or your gains won't solidify properly and you'll end up losing much of what you gained. Your body needs to adapt to your new weight set point. 8 weeks minimum, preferably 12. :)

[japh]

What do the guys that stay on year round do then?

[PdH]

What do the guys that stay on year round do then?

Generally die before their time. Just kidding. There's a difference between being on year round with dosages high enough to provide the hormonal support necessary to retain size and dosing for size and then coming off to HRT levels and attempting to cut after 3 weeks.

Essentially he's attempting to bridge from one cycle to another but the bridging period is not long enough and the cutting cycle test dosage should be double what it is. He should also add some EQ or NPP to the cutting cycle. If you're going to do a cycle, it should be done properly, particularly when in a calorie deficit.

Also, the transition period with HCG at 250 ED for 3 weeks seems rather pointless. Either run it 2 weeks before a proper PCT or throughout your entire cycle at 500 EOD. This whole mini PCT while taking 250 test thing is kinda useless.

[smithmitchelle]

Ok, so lets review the bridge cycle...

why is 250/W useless?, it seems at adequate levels for your body to mimic what it would naturally produce and not go into a catabolic state and lose the muscle gained. Clen has Anti-Catabolic properties as well. Will both be enough to sustain majority of gains?

Just to tickle the question.. Why take Test with EQ or NPP - what advantages are they going to give you over the Test by itself in a calorie deficient cycle?

[smithmitchelle]

Oh another question to add to this...

3 weeks in (Test/Deca) I have a BF% of 16 - which I gained loading on the calories the first 2 weeks....

should I lower the Test/Deca from 500/400 to 400/200 and add t3/clen and shred some BF for 4 weeks then kick start right back into bulking for additional 8-10 weeks?

[PdH]

Ok, so lets review the bridge cycle...

why is 250/W useless?, it seems at adequate levels for your body to mimic what it would naturally produce and not go into a catabolic state and lose the muscle gained. Clen has Anti-Catabolic properties as well. Will both be enough to sustain majority of gains?

Just to tickle the question.. Why take Test with EQ or NPP - what advantages are they going to give you over the Test by itself in a calorie deficient cycle?

250 is just above HRT levels. It will help you to retain mass, but minimally. One of the primary reasons for using gear is to utilize the food we eat more efficiently and effectively. If you took gear without adequate nutrition it would do nothing except give you sides.

So, when in a caloric deficit one needs to be able to utilize their nutrition as effectively as possible in order to retain muscle mass. Gear puts you in a positive nitrogen balance which results in greater protein uptake and the maintenance of muscle. 250 test alone is not sufficient for an effective cutting cycle. There are levels which are optimal for cutting and IMO that would be 500 test EW and 100 NPP EOD or 400 - 500 EQ EW. As for the clen and it's anti-catabolic properties, blah, I wouldn't rely on it for much.

[PdH]

Oh another question to add to this...

3 weeks in (Test/Deca) I have a BF% of 16 - which I gained loading on the calories the first 2 weeks....

should I lower the Test/Deca from 500/400 to 400/200 and add t3/clen and shred some BF for 4 weeks then kick start right back into bulking for additional 8-10 weeks?

Bulk or cut, pick one. If you're bulking you're going to gain some fat. Bulking and cutting at the same time is a contradiction in terms and practicality. If you're bulking stay at 500/400 for your entire cycle and focus on cutting in a subsequent cycle.

[smithmitchelle]

Thanks much appreciated... Ill do a clean bulk to minimize further bf% gains

how do some bodybuilders report fat loss during bulking?? I feel it goes against the caloric in/out theory (excess calories = muscle gain, Daily calorie requiremnet = maintainence, low calorie = fat loss (this is in combination with weightlifting and healthy calories))

[Delt King]

Thanks much appreciated... Ill do a clean bulk to minimize further bf% gains

how do some bodybuilders report fat loss during bulking?? I feel it goes against the caloric in/out theory (excess calories = muscle gain, Daily calorie requiremnet = maintainence, low calorie = fat loss (this is in combination with weightlifting and healthy calories))

Technically if you were able to put on 20 of muscle and only 10lbs of fat in a cycle your bodyfat % would be less than your starting point although you lost no bodyfat at all. Bodyfat% is relative to overall bodyweight and lean body mass. Good luck trying to put on those ratios though.lol

[Praetorian]

Thanks much appreciated... Ill do a clean bulk to minimize further bf% gains

how do some bodybuilders report fat loss during bulking?? I feel it goes against the caloric in/out theory (excess calories = muscle gain, Daily calorie requiremnet = maintainence, low calorie = fat loss (this is in combination with weightlifting and healthy calories))

As PDH said run a lean mass gaining cycle and then run proper PCT...then run a proper cutting cycle with proper diet, cardio etc. BB who think they have leaned out while bulking are misinterpreting what an androgen does and are believing an increased hardness is actually fat loss....untrue.
P

[japh]

Thanks for carifying pdh. That makes sense. Moral of the story. Either stay "on" or go "off" for a legitimate amount of time.

[juced_porkchop]

dont bother with novla or hcg mid way if your gonna do this,

run the hcg last 5 weeks of cycle rinning up to BUT NOT into pct.
i would also ad tbol for the 8 weeks along with test.
but afte r cutter keep protien and cals high as then your body will be going on a rolle rcoaster and you dont want too loos too much gains