Outside the box diet plan advice needed!!!!

[japh]

I've been dieting for 2 months now. Its not my first BBQ but have been doing so using aproximately

100 grams fat (3-6-9)

100 grams of carbs

300 grams of protein.

In the past I've never gone that high with my fats.

I have not lost any weight on the scale yet am 100% sure I am leaner because its visibly evident.

Many people have notived and ade comments as well.

I suscribe to the general rule of thumb that a person cannot build muscle and lose fat yet there it is?

I believe this has to do with the individual his genetics and where he is at personally when it comes to having had maximized his genetic potential.

I am natural, 6 feet and 230 pounds at about 15% right now would be my guess. I am also getting stronger while losing bodyfat as well. Managed to get 26 reps tonight with 225 pounds on the bench press and have been adding 1 rep a week consistently so far.

So I am pleased with my diet. That being said I am not losing bodyfat as quickly in years past dieting this way but it has been absolutely painless so far and I eat pretty much as much as I want still. Never been a big eater.

All that aside this is my point. I've been kicking around the idea of manipulating fat for my next bulk rather than carbs.

Basically using udo oil and 3-6-9. I'm wondering if it woud be healthy still taking in that much fat whether it be considered healthy fat or not?

My diet would look something like this

400 protein

200 carbs

200 fat to start adding 50 grams of fat each consecutive month until 500 grams of fat is reached in 6 months going from 4200 calories to 6900 aproximately.

Of course with that much protein I will be adding in super supplements having had been off for over a year.

My meals would mostly be shakes other than solid food pre and post workout only. Thats when I would eat my carbs (100 grams pre and post each) along with either steak or chicken pre workout and eggs/cottage cheese post workout(I workout late at night) . Shakes would be drank every 2 hrs throughout the day for a total of 8 shakes.

This diet interests me and I see it having potential. Is it feasible and potentially plausible?

[japh]

I forgot to mention.

Since dieting I have started training legs again seriously.

I started on 20 grams of creatine and 30 grams of glutamine daily

I train legs on my off day where I take in approximatey 1000 grams of carbs.

My legs are noticeably bigger

In the middle of the week I have a clean off meal and go out for all you can eat mongolian grill. Basically consists of a coule pounds of beef and a shitload of every volumizing low carb veggie you can think of.

I go by feel also. Some days I might increase my carbs by 50 grams to 150 or my protein by 50 to 350.

I take in a ton of supplemental fibre. Not sure how much but well ove 150 grams and poop 4 times a day. lol

I never got to bed hungry. Eat eggs, cottage cheese, shrimp, kippers etc etc before bed.

[MMASTAR]

20 grams creatine a day?? i think 10 is lots, 5 in the morning and 5 post WO.

[japh]

MMA you're right its just that I don't trust supplement companies in general especially when it comes to creatine. lol I double up just in case their full of it when it comes to their labelling.

One last thing. I forgot to mention my reasoning behind this type of muscle gain diet.

I'm naturally bigger than most. My mom is 5'4" 240, my dad 6'0" 275 my sister 5'3 315, my other sister 5'4" 230. Naturally big people.

Some of us are also more carb sensitive than others. lol My little sister that weighs 315 should weigh at least 100lbs less than that I believe based on her calorie intake but shes a carb addict. Pretty much all she eats.

I can gain 60 lbs in 6 months no problem without even really trying and not eating that much. I used to do this when I was younger. Its gross though. lol In recent past I've been trying to control it more and only gain 30 -40 lbs after diet.

So anyways I'm thinking this type of bulk with limited carbs and manipulating calories through healthy supplemental fat would be a great thing for carb sensitive mesomorphs like myself.

Also the fat would not necessarily have to go all the way to 500 grams. If I'm getting results with less I'd stay there until I wasn't. Just wondering if its possible in theory?

[Ritch]

I'm naturally bigger than most. My mom is 5'4" 240, my dad 6'0" 275 my sister 5'3 315, my other sister 5'4" 230. Naturally big people.





Holy shit dude...

5`3, 315lbs???

[steve_d]

My diet would look something like this

400 protein

200 carbs

200 fat to start adding 50 grams of fat each consecutive month until 500 grams of fat is reached in 6 months going from 4200 calories to 6900 aproximately.


Somehow this doesn't look healthy to me at all. You're eating 2500 calories a day now, and you are going to bump that to about 4200. That's quite a jump to begin with...But then to start adding another 500 calories of fat per month until you're basically eating 65% of a high calorie diet in pure fat...Something doesn't seem smart about it to me.

If I were you, I'd just add about 500 calories a day from what you're doing now (in fats protein, and carbs). And take it from there. If need be, add another 500 calories after a few weeks. But I don't think you need to eat 7000 calories a day unless you're looking to gain way more fat than necessary to acheive your goals (or you plan on racing the tour de france).

[japh]

Yeah, me too. I wonder about my liver a bit on this one, not to mention my bowels. lol I doubt I could absorb that much fat either but thats kinda the point. My body might not absorb more fat than it coud use unlike carbs.

The fat is negotiable of course. The general diet plan is not, could it work for someone such as myself?

For sure steve I would do what you are suggesting normally and probably will again this year to some degree but am really wondering if this could work. I'd basically be eating a lot like I do while dieting just with more fat poured into my shakes on this muscle gain diet and a couple more shakes.

Say I start where I'm at, at 100 grams of fat and raise it by 25 a month to start instead and see how that works while keeping carbs at 200 consistently and protein at 400 consistently.

So I would then get a 400 calorie bump from carbs to start initially and then get a 225 calorie a month bump from fat each month. That might be smarter since the whole idea is to not gain fat in the first place. lol

I'm a bit of an extremist so maybe I went overboard on that.

And yeah Ritch thats not a typo. Thats my baby sister buddy. lol

[warlock]

I'm naturally bigger than most. My mom is 5'4" 240, my dad 6'0" 275 my sister 5'3 315, my other sister 5'4" 230. Naturally big people.

Some of us are also more carb sensitive than others. lol My little sister that weighs 315 should weigh at least 100lbs less than that I believe based on her calorie intake but shes a carb addict. Pretty much all she eats.



No disrespect.

But like your family, my older brothers are obese or fat and I am not. The only difference is in the lifestyle options

My mo was heavy due to her diet that she taught to us all (she didn't know better) and we found fine to eat like that. I am the only one that changed those behaviours and my outcomes re different from the rest of my family.

Udo's 3-6-9?

Dump it and have only Omega 3s

[japh]

Yup, I agree 100%

Proper diet and exercise can trump genetics for the most part.

I've recently moved back home as part of a career change and have started training both my parents.

They've both lost considerable weight in the last 2 months.

I have a goal of taking 100lbs off of both of them in 1 year

I think that will be my greatest accomplishment to date if I accomplish it.

My plan is to continue living with them for 1 year to accomplish this. They need monitoring. lol I'd like to extend both their lives.

I might not get laid for the next year but it'll be worth it. lol

[japh]

If any other guys wouldn't mind chiming in with some experience I'd appreciate it.

I'm basically wondering if this tye of diet has potential as a form of clean bulk for carb sensitive people, or if it just has potential as a bulk type diet in general?

I've been my own guinea pig many times but don't want to spin my wheels anymore than necessary.

Praetorian, DeltKing etc etc a quick thought would help if you guys have the time. Yay or nay?

[Andre Gregoire]

In a caloric deficit I prefer to do keto type diets and I believe there is definitely an advantage to having low insulin levels while dieting but when you go to maintenance or beyond there is no benefit to having carbs so low and fats so high in my opinion.

Once you have a caloric surplus fat is the easiest macronutrient to store as fat, carbs is second and protein is third. So if you are eating maintenance then having a high fat diet is fine but when you start eating above your maintenance level fat gains come pretty fast.

I tend to start a diet plan by setting protein at 1.5g per lb of LBM and fats at 0.5g per lb of LBM then the rest is carbs, that is my baseline. The only diet variable is carbs.

So protein would be 250-300g and fat would be 75-90g always and when the calories get really low then it's almost a keto, on maintenance I might have 200g of carbs per day and when bulking it might be 300-400g.

[japh]

OK thanks Andre.

I'm getting the sense that my diet idea was nothing more than a "seemed like a good idea at the time" diet. lol

I'll just do the the accepted method again this year and really try to keep track of my carbs this year better than previous years.

[Andre Gregoire]

I understand your reasoning and have tried higher calorie low carb diets because I feel so good on hypocaloric keto diets. The thing is they never worked out as well in practice as in theory.

Lots of guys have tried it and they pretty much all come to the same conclusion, you add fat faster.

Once you are done dieting try reverse dieting and add back carbs in slowly. I like to add like 100 calories per week from carbs. So you could move to 125, 150, 175, 200, etc..

Chose low glycemic carbs and you will feel better I like brown rice, oats, brocoli and some sweet potatoes.

Natural don't need 7000calories to grow, you will just get fat and you have the genetics for that.

I aim to gain 0.5lbs per week, if you don't gain it one week then add 100calories per day from carbs, if you do gain it keep calories the same.

26lbs of weight gain per year is huge and even that won't be all muscle.

[japh]

Yeah, thanks. I like the term "reverse dieting." Never heard it before. I wanna stay strict and "on it" this offseason like I do when dieting so that type of mentality will definately help! Tired of looking good for a portion of the year and like 5 lbs of crap in a 3 lb bag the rest. Thats what I'll do coupled with a 1 month diet every 3 months during my muscle gain portion of the year. Thanks

[Andre Gregoire]

Yeah, thanks. I like the term "reverse dieting." Never heard it before. I wanna stay strict and "on it" this offseason like I do when dieting so that type of mentality will definately help! Tired of looking good for a portion of the year and like 5 lbs of crap in a 3 lb bag the rest. Thats what I'll do coupled with a 1 month diet every 3 months during my muscle gain portion of the year. Thanks

I am also considering doing 4-6 weeks of cutting after slow bulking for 3mths to make sure to keep fat gains reasonable. From what I know and from others experience this works very well.

[Delt King]

I would agree on this one. although the amount of carbs you start with will depend on what you're running now and slowly work up from there. 300 to 500 calories above maintenance on average is what you should shoot for, Having a set meal plan is the only way to achieve that consistently. Also periods of caloric deficit within the bulk (a few weeks at a time) can keep you below the 15-16% BF range which should be top end for offseason conditioning.


In a caloric deficit I prefer to do keto type diets and I believe there is definitely an advantage to having low insulin levels while dieting but when you go to maintenance or beyond there is no benefit to having carbs so low and fats so high in my opinion.

Once you have a caloric surplus fat is the easiest macronutrient to store as fat, carbs is second and protein is third. So if you are eating maintenance then having a high fat diet is fine but when you start eating above your maintenance level fat gains come pretty fast.

I tend to start a diet plan by setting protein at 1.5g per lb of LBM and fats at 0.5g per lb of LBM then the rest is carbs, that is my baseline. The only diet variable is carbs.

So protein would be 250-300g and fat would be 75-90g always and when the calories get really low then it's almost a keto, on maintenance I might have 200g of carbs per day and when bulking it might be 300-400g.

[japh]

Thanks delt ing. Its good to have a general consensus from a few knowledgeable guys.

[Jazzy]

I understand your reasoning and have tried higher calorie low carb diets because I feel so good on hypocaloric keto diets. The thing is they never worked out as well in practice as in theory.

Lots of guys have tried it and they pretty much all come to the same conclusion, you add fat faster.

Once you are done dieting try reverse dieting and add back carbs in slowly. I like to add like 100 calories per week from carbs. So you could move to 125, 150, 175, 200, etc..

Chose low glycemic carbs and you will feel better I like brown rice, oats, brocoli and some sweet potatoes.

Natural don't need 7000calories to grow, you will just get fat and you have the genetics for that.

I aim to gain 0.5lbs per week, if you don't gain it one week then add 100calories per day from carbs, if you do gain it keep calories the same.

26lbs of weight gain per year is huge and even that won't be all muscle.


I like what you'd said!^^ and the first post too, with the keto!^^

I'm on the same way than you!:)