Squats

[#8]

Ok, maybe this should be in the rants section or whatever but seriously....

Anyone and everyone who does heavy squats (I will say anything over 315 for the purpose of this thread) without going all the way down on each and every rep is a douchebag.

Yes, I just said that. You do your 1/4 or at most 1/2 rep squats with all the weight on to impress anyone who happens to be looking your direction in the gym, but you just end up looking like a ****ing dick. Wow, I'm so impressed you can move that weight 8 inches or less....amazing!

If someone stepped up to a bench claiming to be able to bench 500lbs then moved it halfway down and back up, would you tell them they successfully completed that set? Why are squats any different?

For those with knee injuries: I also suffer from years of hockey abuse, and almost constant knee pain. You know what works the best at making my knees stronger? You guessed it. Full ROM squats. I had to do physio this year to heal my left knee after the hematoma (sp?) and hyper extension that occurred last summer. Now I am back to full ROM squats again with heavy weight.

Moral of the story: If you cant bring your ass all the way down, keep your knees way the **** out, and push it all the way back up, you look like a douchebag. Stop loading up the weight to look cool and do a lighter squat properly.

[natenator]

*cough*

http://www.canadabodybuilding.com/forums/showpost.php?p=287789&postcount=209

http://www.canadabodybuilding.com/forums/showpost.php?p=287832&postcount=211

[slick rick]

^^official thread ender, lol.

[riccosuabe]

couldnt agree more,strangely though ive tried half rep/parallel squats before and i cant lift anywhere near the same weight i can going ass to grass???i use my ass touching my calves as a marker to press up

[GYMBRAT]

LOL!

[#8]

I dont give a shit about either of those posts.

I know SS is a big guy as I have met him, but those squats are not even half reps IMO.

I dont care how big someones legs are. My legs are smaller and I can move more weight more distance.

[#8]

Should I post a vid of me half benching a huge weight? Whatever floats your boat I guess...

[tiramisu]

I disagree :)

High/low bar, wide/narrow stance, box, atg/parallel/quarter they all have a place.
Last month I did everything atg. My knees are feeling a wee bit achy. I may change to parallel this month or next. I know a couple of guys who quite like 1/4 heavy squats to get used to carrying a yoke.

[natenator]

Should I post a vid of me half benching a huge weight? Whatever floats your boat I guess...
No video required but how about you post a pic of your amazing leg development which has obviously been because of your full ROM ass to grass squat movements.

[#8]

I can see that a lot of you practice this fine art. Keep on keepin on I guess....make sure you look around to make sure everyone is watching before you do it though....thats how you become awesome.

[Praetorian]

Agreed...I prefer full ROM and dropping into the hole...when you dont break parallel you dont drop into the hole and glute and ham development suffers. Dont look at quad development..they arent totally activated until past parallel. I started out in PL so bench.deads, and squats had to all be legal lifts...thats how i learned and thats how I teach clients. Ive seen many videos even pros who throw on 5-6 plates and do half reps.Watch Tom Platz...thats how you squat!!
P

[GYMBRAT]

Agreed...I prefer full ROM and dropping into the hole...when you dont break parallel you dont drop into the hole and glute and ham development suffers. Dont look at quad development..they arent totally activated until past parallel. I started out in PL so bench.deads, and squats had to all be legal lifts...thats how i learned and thats how I teach clients. Ive seen many videos even pros who throw on 5-6 plates and do half reps.Watch Tom Platz...thats how you squat!!
P

same here and I also agree 110%

[natenator]

Agreed...I prefer full ROM and dropping into the hole...when you dont break parallel you dont drop into the hole and glute and ham development suffers. Dont look at quad development..they arent totally activated until past parallel. I started out in PL so bench.deads, and squats had to all be legal lifts...thats how i learned and thats how I teach clients. Ive seen many videos even pros who throw on 5-6 plates and do half reps.Watch Tom Platz...thats how you squat!!
P
What is considered full ROM squats to one person may not be full ROM to another even if both are dropping as low as their body will allow them to go.

Can it be worked on to go even lower? Yup, it can but eventually you can only do so much with one's own biomechanics.

You see guys with great leg development who don't appear to go full ROM and you see guys with shit leg development (notice I didn't say quad development) who do appear to go full ROM. Which way is better? Whatever way gets the job done without causing injury is my opinion.

[Praetorian]

What is considered full ROM squats to one person may not be full ROM to another even if both are dropping as low as their body will allow them to go.

Can it be worked on to go even lower? Yup, it can but eventually you can only do so much with one's own biomechanics.

You see guys with great leg development who don't appear to go full ROM and you see guys with shit leg development (notice I didn't say quad development) who do appear to go full ROM. Which way is better? Whatever way gets the job done without causing injury is my opinion.

Full ROM motion squats means breaking parallel or a legal lift...this can be measured on any individual no matter what their leverages or biomechanics are....the hip has to drop below the top of the knee....that is a full squat....anything else is not. Yes some guys have great development from not full squatting they also are gentically gifted to perform the squat or in the leg department....that doesnt mean we should follow their lead. For the vast majority of trainees full squatting will always give the best overall leg development.
The other issue comes from ego....when you hear someone say they squatted x amount etc....if it wasnt full ROM ....then NO they did not squat x amount....they did partials with it.
Show me anyone with shit leg development who full squats 500lbs for reps...just one.
P

[drdnj]

I can see that a lot of you practice this fine art. Keep on keepin on I guess....make sure you look around to make sure everyone is watching before you do it though....thats how you become awesome.

Just curious... why do you worry so much about what everyone else is doing? Unless these guys are coming up to you and disrupting your training, then who really cares.

[gingerbreadman]

milk crate works well, unless you're a midget

[O-Train]

Agreed...I prefer full ROM and dropping into the hole...when you dont break parallel you dont drop into the hole and glute and ham development suffers. Dont look at quad development..they arent totally activated until past parallel. I started out in PL so bench.deads, and squats had to all be legal lifts...thats how i learned and thats how I teach clients. Ive seen many videos even pros who throw on 5-6 plates and do half reps.Watch Tom Platz...thats how you squat!!
P

Hey Praetorian, quick question. When I drop down below parallel I find my hip flexors tighten up. Do you think it's more of a flexability issue or form? Maybe a combination of both?

[L3]

what about these squats?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQKYEPLwU_k

[ironwill]

looks good L3.....IMO.....id personally go a bit slower on the negative, but im anal about the negative portion on pretty much anything, then loosen up for the last couple if i want to cheat some........always have been...I believe you are going low enough, but try and go slower and pause at bottom and power that sucker up, and tell me if you feel it more when done.....All in all i say good job man....

[japh]

I believe in both. As a person who enjoys powerlifting as a hobby full range is just the way it is, no exceptions.

As a person who enjoys bodybuilding, heavy partials on a leg press to solely isolate the quad.

I also like partials because I believe in working a muscle to its maximum capacity in a certain range of motion for sport.

I worry that some people won't understand what it is I'm doing when I perform partials and think I'm an egotistiacal douche because of that. There are those types too. lol I'd like to think I'm the exception though. lol

As a person who also enjoys powerlifting like I said. There are these things called board presses done on a bench press. Hmmm... maybe that principle could be applied to legs as well???......what do I now. Only one way to find out I guess. lol

[japh]

Oh ya!!! What about rack pulls? I'm the biggest douchebag in the world I guess. lol

[Ritch]

what about these squats?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQKYEPLwU_k

what type of retard of a gym owner puts a "pizza pizza" add in his gym? ****! But overall those reps looked good. A few times the left knee would look a little off, and some hip movement going on (side to side) but good reps L3!

[japh]

That being said I do get your point #8. If a peron only does partials and then houston we got a problem.

[#8]

I would call those half squats L3. at no point does he go below parallel that i saw in that vid. could have been because his legs were so far apart, and it might have been painful to do so.

Its hard not to care about what other people are lifting when they are constantly bugging me

"How many sets do you have left? Are you almost done?"

"No Im not almost done, because I actually squat properly with heavy ass weight and it takes me a long time between sets to recover so **** off and do you bullshit, loser squats somewhere else."

P said it best. Everyone has their own full ROM that can be calculated based on angles and leverage and proper training.

If you can squat X amount of weight and its not a full squat. Guess what? You didnt squat that much weight. The end.

[natenator]

Full ROM motion squats means breaking parallel or a legal lift...this can be measured on any individual no matter what their leverages or biomechanics are....the hip has to drop below the top of the knee....that is a full squat....anything else is not. Yes some guys have great development from not full squatting they also are gentically gifted to perform the squat or in the leg department....that doesnt mean we should follow their lead. For the vast majority of trainees full squatting will always give the best overall leg development.
The other issue comes from ego....when you hear someone say they squatted x amount etc....if it wasnt full ROM ....then NO they did not squat x amount....they did partials with it.
Show me anyone with shit leg development who full squats 500lbs for reps...just one.
P
ok then we agree on what full ROM is then.

[Talo]

1/8 , 1/4 and 1/2 squats all have their place in training.

You are loading up your CNS and that is huge. It helps and it works.

If you can squat 400 full rom , then 500 1/2 and 600 1/4 and you practice this then in a few months you will be able to do 500 full and 600 1/2 and 700 1/4.

It's not about what people see in the gym . Who ****ing cares if people are looking at you or not. Sure I guess there are people that that only care what other people see , but for the most part guys that are pushing 500,600lbs lifts dont . They are there to increase strength and there are small tricks to that.

Same goes for the bench and the deadlift .

But I'm always looking at it as a powerlifting and not a bodybuildier :) if that even matters.

[GYMBRAT]

Your ****ed !!

1/8 , 1/4 and 1/2 squats all have their place in training.

You are loading up your CNS and that is huge. It helps and it works.

If you can squat 400 full rom , then 500 1/2 and 600 1/4 and you practice this then in a few months you will be able to do 500 full and 600 1/2 and 700 1/4.

It's not about what people see in the gym . Who ****ing cares if people are looking at you or not. Sure I guess there are people that that only care what other people see , but for the most part guys that are pushing 500,600lbs lifts dont . They are there to increase strength and there are small tricks to that.

Same goes for the bench and the deadlift .

But I'm always looking at it as a powerlifting and not a bodybuildier :) if that even matters.

I can totally see your point on this actually Talo

[Talo]

But yes if you don't do full ROM ( past par ) you wont pass in a meet.

[drdnj]

I would call those half squats L3. at no point does he go below parallel that i saw in that vid. could have been because his legs were so far apart, and it might have been painful to do so.

Its hard not to care about what other people are lifting when they are constantly bugging me

"How many sets do you have left? Are you almost done?"

"No Im not almost done, because I actually squat properly with heavy ass weight and it takes me a long time between sets to recover so **** off and do you bullshit, loser squats somewhere else."

P said it best. Everyone has their own full ROM that can be calculated based on angles and leverage and proper training.

If you can squat X amount of weight and its not a full squat. Guess what? You didnt squat that much weight. The end.

#8 sorry man, I rarely chime in.....But your posts are starting to kinda get to me. So how strong are you? We all know (from previous and on going posts) that you are quite a ladies man and now guru of the heavy and full ROM squat.... lets see something. Put up a pic of your wheels and "squat creds" ---- anyone who is as frustrated as you about others workouts must have some serious leg development (especially hams and glutes due to deep squats).

D

[Praetorian]

1/8 , 1/4 and 1/2 squats all have their place in training.

You are loading up your CNS and that is huge. It helps and it works.

If you can squat 400 full rom , then 500 1/2 and 600 1/4 and you practice this then in a few months you will be able to do 500 full and 600 1/2 and 700 1/4.

It's not about what people see in the gym . Who ****ing cares if people are looking at you or not. Sure I guess there are people that that only care what other people see , but for the most part guys that are pushing 500,600lbs lifts dont . They are there to increase strength and there are small tricks to that.

Same goes for the bench and the deadlift .

But I'm always looking at it as a powerlifting and not a bodybuildier :) if that even matters.

Agree completely as I have done that for years when I started as a PL....as a BB things are quite different however.
P

[Praetorian]

Hey Praetorian, quick question. When I drop down below parallel I find my hip flexors tighten up. Do you think it's more of a flexability issue or form? Maybe a combination of both?

Hip flexibility is huge in squatting expecially when using a very wide stance.
P

[slick rick]

1/8 , 1/4 and 1/2 squats all have their place in training.

You are loading up your CNS and that is huge. It helps and it works.

If you can squat 400 full rom , then 500 1/2 and 600 1/4 and you practice this then in a few months you will be able to do 500 full and 600 1/2 and 700 1/4.

It's not about what people see in the gym . Who ****ing cares if people are looking at you or not. Sure I guess there are people that that only care what other people see , but for the most part guys that are pushing 500,600lbs lifts dont . They are there to increase strength and there are small tricks to that.

Same goes for the bench and the deadlift .

But I'm always looking at it as a powerlifting and not a bodybuildier :) if that even matters.

I'd give you green if i could Talo.. but I must spread the love..good post.. partials have their place in getting stronger and passing plateaus, they have helped me tremendously along the way. This thread just reminds me all the more why i love my home gym.

[Victor85]

I guess it depends on your discipline.
One of my good buddies, Burt, is a World caliber powerlifter and he uses partials in his training. He is 62 years old and he is one of the strongest guys in my gym. He is stronger then me...Damnit!! However, as a bodybuilder, I do hate it when ass clowns load up the bar with crazy weights and do half ass squats. They are hogging the power rack and using too many plates!! GRR!
You more or less can tell if someone is serious or not by the type of development they carry on their frame.
Working out at the YMCA, I have seen my fair share of idiots feeding their skinny punk ass bitch egos. IMO

[japh]

Warming up with just the bar then 95lbs doing an overhead squat is a great way to increase flexibility.

Learn to drop well below parallel doing that. Your technique will increase dramatically.

Learning to squat with less flexion as a result of this I find helpful as well obviously.


Its NOT easy for some.

[japh]

Overhead wide stance squats will teach anyone to drop and sit in the hole properly.

You'll have to stay upright the entire way as you get down below parallel.

People with inflexible hips will not be able to do this.

[natenator]

#8 sorry man, I rarely chime in.....But your posts are starting to kinda get to me. So how strong are you? We all know (from previous and on going posts) that you are quite a ladies man and now guru of the heavy and full ROM squat.... lets see something. Put up a pic of your wheels and "squat creds" ---- anyone who is as frustrated as you about others workouts must have some serious leg development (especially hams and glutes due to deep squats).

D
this.

when you open your mouth and call someone out it speaks volumes about the person you're calling out given I don't think you've EVER done that and are pretty low key. Damn academic types ;)

[Praetorian]

1/8 , 1/4 and 1/2 squats all have their place in training.

You are loading up your CNS and that is huge. It helps and it works.

If you can squat 400 full rom , then 500 1/2 and 600 1/4 and you practice this then in a few months you will be able to do 500 full and 600 1/2 and 700 1/4.

It's not about what people see in the gym . Who ****ing cares if people are looking at you or not. Sure I guess there are people that that only care what other people see , but for the most part guys that are pushing 500,600lbs lifts dont . They are there to increase strength and there are small tricks to that.

Same goes for the bench and the deadlift .

But I'm always looking at it as a powerlifting and not a bodybuildier :) if that even matters.

100% but I think its pretty easy to spot guys who are seriously using partials as a training aid and guys who are just being lazy.
P

[slick rick]

100% but I think its pretty easy to spot guys who are seriously using partials as a training aid and guys who are just being lazy.
P


I agree.. and to #8's credit, I think that it was the lazy posers he was speaking of.

[GYMBRAT]

I agree.. and to #8's credit, I think that it was the lazy posers he was speaking of.

I agree with ya, I'm sure #8 knows the diff

[#8]

100% but I think its pretty easy to spot guys who are seriously using partials as a training aid and guys who are just being lazy.
P

exactly!

did you guys actually believe i was talking about SERIOUS lifters doing partials to push past plateaus? If they were that serious at lifting I, and most other people would probably know as I would see them there every day.

You guys all know who and what I am talking about I dont know why so many of you are choosing to defend these clowns with such vigor.

I will try to post a vid of me doing real squats but it prolly wont happen until sep when Im back in london with my training partner JifeLacket. I dont have anyone to spot / film me until then.

[#8]

this.

when you open your mouth and call someone out it speaks volumes about the person you're calling out given I don't think you've EVER done that and are pretty low key. Damn academic types ;)

I dont know what this means....as to who anyone is talking to or whats going on...?

Spit it out.

[natenator]

I dont know what this means....as to who anyone is talking to or whats going on...?

Spit it out.
it was meant for drdnj. when he calls someone out it speaks volumes as that is not his manner at all.

[warlock]

looks good L3.....IMO.....id personally go a bit slower on the negative, but im anal about the negative portion on pretty much anything, then loosen up for the last couple if i want to cheat some........always have been...I believe you are going low enough, but try and go slower and pause at bottom and power that sucker up, and tell me if you feel it more when done.....All in all i say good job man....


I guess we are in the same page.

I am anal as well, no pauses with bottoms here, no pauses at all BTW and I always power the sucker up.

I feel great when done.:hu

[PdH]

This is squatting:

http://www.ironscene.com/videos/72_tom_platz_500_for_23_reps_squat

[cog]

No pause at the bottom.He always smiled.

[#8]

This is squatting:

http://www.ironscene.com/videos/72_tom_platz_500_for_23_reps_squat

yes. that is squatting indeed. anything less than that is simply not a squat. there is no debating this. and 99.9% of the people in the gym doing "squats" are ****ing fags who like to load up bars with weight while people are looking.

:beat

[PdH]

No pause at the bottom.

And the best legs bodybuilding has ever seen. I think pausing is over-rated. Depth is what's important.

[japh]

Yup, perfect depth and nice and upright. One of the best vids ever!

There are not many powerlifters in canada and I think thats why proper squatting is elusive to a lot of bodybuilders.

I think many bodybuilders would do well if they started their leg day much like a powerlifter.

The squat is their sport afterall

Stands to reason that bodybuilders might be able to learn a lot from them.

[japh]

From a muscular standpoint I'd say pauses are overrated yes.

From a pure power 1 rep max standpoint I'd say they are not.

[cog]

The Russians used to(and maybe still do)employ those force platforms.Anybody seen one in Canada?

[cog]

From a muscular standpoint I'd say pauses are overrated yes.

From a pure power 1 rep max standpoint I'd say they are not.

That force multiplier device that Fred Hatfield employed was good for that.Never seen one of those in a gym either.

[warlock]

Every variation of squat has its purpose therefore saying that one is the right is just justifiable when considering goals.

ATG recruit more motor units and glute activation happens at 90 degrees of hip flexion making a case for #8 as that being a golden standard among other types.

Unfortunately most people just don't have the right orthopedic profile to perform them, lack of lower body flexibility, bad form (like one of the videos where the guy is bending over 45 degrees in the spine and using the ligament system instead of his erectors), faulty lumbo pelvic ritm and so on.

The point that I believe should be taken is that we all should include ATG squats in our programs according to whatever goals we are working towards but never let our egos to take over our programs

[Baconbits]

Here's an interesting video about squatting

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEgm7WJBURQ

[#8]

^^ Brilliant.

"If you cannot squat low, you aint worth shit!"

So basically anybody worth listening to is agreeing with me 100%. Hmmmm.....cool