ECA stack?

[lawton]

ive done a bit of research but would like to know first hand from anyone if they lost muscle mass while on a ECA stack also how much they would take per body mass

sorry for run on sentence.

[Andre Gregoire]

ECA itself is not catabolic and should not cause lose of LBM. If anything it's supposed to spare lean body mass.

It doesn't seem like you know a whole lot about ECA so you should read up on it first before using it.

I have used it a lot over the years probably since 1998 or so. I wouldn't use the aspirin.

Start by reading this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECA_stack

Then make sure to read the studies referenced, especially this meta-analysis:

Efficacy and Safety of Ephedra and Ephedrine for Weight Loss and Athletic Performance
http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/full/289/12/1537

You need to be fully aware of what you are taking, the benefits as well as the side effects and then weigh the risk and decide if you should be taking it.

[lawton]

cool that was pretty much the answer i was looking for.

but why not do the aspirin? ive gone deaf off taking 1000mg in a sitting before.
my mistake LOL

[Andre Gregoire]

In the studies the aspirin has only been shown to significantly enhance the thermogenic effect in obese females.

Bad sides of aspirin:
-May cause stomach ulcers, especially in woman and is dose dependent
-Suppresses prostaglandins, some of which are needed for muscle growth

Good sides of aspirin:
-Helps lower risk of heart attack in those prone to heart disease
-Lowers systematic inflammation
-Enhances length and intensity of stimulant effect of ECA stack
-Like any oral drug, effects liver enzymes

I wouldn't take 3 full tabs of aspirin per day for weeks on end that's just asking for problems.

Aspirin has a long half-life, 18hrs if I recall correctly so taking 1 baby aspirin (81mg) with your first stack of the day would have you covered if you must have it.

[CMoney]

Can I chime in here? I'm of the less is more school of thought when it comes to supplements.

During prep, I use and ECA stack because of it's wicked effectiveness and dirt cheap cost.

I use the stuff very prudently. Your body adapts quickly, so it's best to cycle (3 days' use, 1 day off, 2 days' use, 1 day off or something like that). My thinking is that if the stack seems to be becoming less effective, don't take more! Lay off of it for 2-3 days. Tough it out, suck it up, and go easy on your body.

I take the stack on an empty stomach about two hours before I train in the mid morning. Any closer to my training time than that and I'm way too jittery. Any later in the day, and well, you know, hella hard to get to sleep (it's already hard enough to sleep during prep, right?). I take 200mg caffeine, 24 mg (3 x 8 mg tabs) ephedrine, and 1/2 of a regular strength aspirin.

I don't touch the stuff outside of contest prep, which ensure it works like a damn when I need it for fat loss.

But this is the natty thread, right? Isn't ephedrine banned at natural contests?

[Andre Gregoire]

The jittery effect of ECA goes away after 2-3 weeks of constant usage if you keep using it but the fat burning effects don't. Most people like to use it constantly for this purpose, get rid of the jitter but still keep the fat burning properties.

ephedrine and methylephedrine are prohibited when its
concentration in urine is greater than 10 micrograms per milliliter.

http://www.wada-ama.org/rtecontent/document/2010_Prohibited_List_FINAL_EN_Web.pdf

So basically, ephedrine is banned when used in large dosages that enhance sports performance. In our sport it's used for fat burning and most don't take ephedrine on the day of the show. Even if you take Ephedrine on the day of the show I am sure no one would use it in large enough dosages as there would be no benefit.

[steve_d]

but caffeine can show up too...and caffeine as a diuretic could be used for show day purposes. so beware if doing a tested show (that actually does legit testing)...would be pretty crappy to be busted for something as silly as caffeine.

[gingerbreadman]

In the studies the aspirin has only been shown to significantly enhance the thermogenic effect in obese females.

Bad sides of aspirin:
-May cause stomach ulcers, especially in woman and is dose dependent
-Suppresses prostaglandins, some of which are needed for muscle growth

Good sides of aspirin:
-Helps lower risk of heart attack in those prone to heart disease
-Lowers systematic inflammation
-Enhances length and intensity of stimulant effect of ECA stack
-Like any oral drug, effects liver enzymes

I wouldn't take 3 full tabs of aspirin per day for weeks on end that's just asking for problems.

Aspirin has a long half-life, 18hrs if I recall correctly so taking 1 baby aspirin (81mg) with your first stack of the day would have you covered if you must have it.


Excessive aspirin..............

I'm recovering from angiodysplasia, internal bleeding believed to be caused by ECA stacks mainly the aspirin. Relied on it for preworkout energy for well over a year straight. Some days aspirin intake was at 800mg (325mg x 2 in 2 ECA stacks) and 2x 81mg to reduce flushing from naicin. But for 1st 9 mths it was just 1 ECA stack/day & no baby aspirin. It'll be many months for recovery to normal training & who knows what long term effects I've caused.

[lawton]

ok so who wants a update haha i started doing just EC stack about 2 weeks ago. helped a bit but then just made me shit like 5 times a day so ya i quit that.

[Praetorian]

Can I chime in here? I'm of the less is more school of thought when it comes to supplements.

During prep, I use and ECA stack because of it's wicked effectiveness and dirt cheap cost.

I use the stuff very prudently. Your body adapts quickly, so it's best to cycle (3 days' use, 1 day off, 2 days' use, 1 day off or something like that). My thinking is that if the stack seems to be becoming less effective, don't take more! Lay off of it for 2-3 days. Tough it out, suck it up, and go easy on your body.

I take the stack on an empty stomach about two hours before I train in the mid morning. Any closer to my training time than that and I'm way too jittery. Any later in the day, and well, you know, hella hard to get to sleep (it's already hard enough to sleep during prep, right?). I take 200mg caffeine, 24 mg (3 x 8 mg tabs) ephedrine, and 1/2 of a regular strength aspirin.

I don't touch the stuff outside of contest prep, which ensure it works like a damn when I need it for fat loss.

But this is the natty thread, right? Isn't ephedrine banned at natural contests?

ECA is one of the worst and most abused stacks people use today. I've posted this many time and it seems people jus dont want to heed the advice. Adrenal fatigue, cortisol issues, cardiac and blood pressure issue are just a few....and they dont manifest themselves until its almost tool late.
P