Testosterone Ester Report Part 1 and 2

[IronRobi]

One of the most misunderstood subjects in the world of steroids is the ester--the mechanism by which injectable esterified steroids like testosterone cypionate, testosterone enanthate, and Sustanon work. If you take a quick look around the Internet you will probably find countless articles that consider one form of a steroid far more effective than another. Arguments over the superiority of cypionate to enanthate, or Sustanon to all other testosterones are of course very common. Such arguments are in all practicality, baseless. In this report we'll take an authoritative look at the ester and what specifically it does to a steroid.

WHAT AN ESTER IS, AND HOW IT WORKS
I'm sure that if you have taken an interest in anabolic steroids you have noticed the similarities on the labeling of many drugs. Let's look at testosterone for example. One can find compounds like testosterone cypionate, enanthate, propionate, heptylate; caproate, phenylpropionate, isocaproate, decanoate, acetate, the list goes on and on. In all such cases the parent hormone is testosterone, which had been modified by adding an ester (enanthate, propionate etc.) to its structure. The following question arises: What is the difference between the various esterified versions of testosterone in regards to their use in bodybuilding?

An ester is a chain composed primarily of carbon and hydrogen atoms. This chain is typically attached to the parent steroid hormone at the 17th carbon position (beta orientation), although some compounds do carry esters at position 3 (for the purposes of this article it is not crucial to understand the exact position of the ester). Esterification of an injectable anabolic/androgenic steroid basically accomplishes one thing, it slows the release of the parent steroid from the site of injection. This happens because the ester will notably lower the water solubility of the steroid, and increase its lipid (fat) solubility. This will cause the drug to form a deposit in the muscle tissue, from which it will slowly enter into circulation as it is picked up in small quantities by the blood. Generally, the longer the ester chain, the lower the water solubility of the compound, and the longer it will take to for the full dosage to reach general circulation.

Slowing the release of the parent steroid is a great benefit in steroid medicine, as free testosterone (or other steroid hormones) previously would remain active in the body for a very short period of time (typically hours). This would necessitate an unpleasant daily injection schedule if one wished to maintain a continuous elevation of testosterone (the goal of testosterone replacement therapy). By adding an ester, the patient can visit the doctor as infrequently as once per month for his injection, instead of having to constantly re-administer the drug to achieve a therapeutic effect. Clearly without the use of an ester, therapy with an injectable anabolic/androgen would be much more difficult.

Esterification temporarily deactivates the steroid molecule. With a chain blocking the 17th beta position, binding to the androgen receptor is not possible (it can exert no activity in the body). In order for the compound to become active the ester must therefore first be removed. This automatically occurs once the compound has filtered into blood circulation, where esterase enzymes quickly cleave off (hydrolyze) the ester chain. This will restore the necessary hydroxyl (OH) group at the 17th beta position, enabling the drug to attach to the appropriate receptor. Now and only now will the steroid be able to have an effect on skeletal muscle tissue. You can start to see why considering testosterone cypionate much more potent than enanthate makes little sense, as your muscles are seeing only free testosterone no matter what ester was used to deploy it.

ACTIONS OF DIFFERENT ESTERS
There are many different esters that are used with anabolic/androgenic steroids, but again, they all do basically the same thing. Esters vary only in their ability to reduce a steroid's water solubility. An ester like propionate for example will slow the release of a steroid for a few days, while the duration will be weeks with a decanoate ester. Esters have no effect on the tendency for the parent steroid to convert to estrogen or DHT (dihydrotestosterone: a more potent metabolite) nor will it effect the overall muscle-building potency of the compound. Any differences in results and side effects that may be noted by bodybuilders who have used various esterified versions of the same base steroid are just issues of timing. Testosterone enanthate causes estrogen related problems more readily than Sustanon, simply because with enanthate testosterone levels will peak and trough much sooner (1-2 week release duration as opposed to 3 or 4). Likewise testosterone suspension is the worst in regards to gyno and water bloat because blood hormone levels peak so quickly with this drug. Instead of waiting weeks for testosterone levels to rise to their highest point, here we are at most looking at a couple of days. Given an equal blood level of testosterone, there would be no difference in the rate of aromatization or DHT conversion between different esters. There is simply no mechanism for this to be possible.

There is however one way that we can say an ester does technically effect potency; it is calculated in the steroid weight. The heavier the ester chain, the greater is its percentage of the total weight. In the case of testosterone enanthate for example, 250mg of esterified steroid (testosterone enanthate) is equal to only 180mg of free testosterone. 70mgs out of each 250mg injection is the weight of the ester. If we wanted to be really picky, we could consider enanthate slightly MORE potent than cypionate (I know this goes against popular thinking) as its ester chain contains one less carbon atom (therefore taking up a slightly smaller percentage of total weight). Propionate would of course come out on top of the three, releasing a measurable (but not significant) amount more testosterone per injection than cypionate or enanthate.

IN CONCLUSION
While the advent of esters certainly constitutes an invaluable advance in the field of anabolic steroid medicine, clearly you can see that there is no magic involved here. Esters work in a well-understood and predictable manner, and do not alter the activity of the parent steroid in any way other than to delay its release. Although the lure surrounding various steroid products like testosterone cypionate, Sustanon, Omnadren etc. certainly makes for interesting conversation, realistically it just amounts to misinformation that the athlete would be better off ignoring. Testosterone is testosterone and anyone who is going to tell you one ester form of this (or any) hormone is much better than another one should do a little more research, and a lot less talking.

ESTER PROFILES
Sustanon: The "king" of testosterone blends.
The four different testosterone esters in this product certainly look appealing to the consumer, there is no denying that. But for the athlete I think it is all just a matter of marketing (Hell, why buy one ester when you can get four?). In clinical situations I can see some strong uses for it. If you were undergoing testosterone replacement therapy for example, you would probably find Sustanon a much more comfortable option than testosterone enanthate. You would need to visit the doctor less frequently for an injection, and blood levels should be more steadily maintained between treatments. But for the bodybuilder who is injecting 4 ampules of Sustanon per week, there is no advantage over other testosterone products. In fact, the high price tag for Sustanon usually makes it a very poor buy in the face of cheaper testosterone enanthate/cypionate. Bodybuilders should probably stop looking at the four ester issue, and stick with totals (Sustanon is just a 250mg testosterone ampule). Were enanthate to be available for say $XX per amp of 250mg, and Sustanon priced nearly double that, buying the Sustanon would be like throwing money away. If you could get nearly double the milligram amount for the same price with enanthate, this is the better product to go with hands down. Leave the high priced stuff for the guys who don't know any better.

[IronRobi]

Acetate: Chemical Structure C2H4O2.
Also referred to as Acetic Acid; Ethylic acid; Vinegar acid; vinegar; Methanecarboxylic acid. Acetate esters delay the release of a steroid for only a couple of days. Contrary to what you may have read, acetate esters do not increase the tendency for fat removal. Again, there is no known mechanism for it to do so. This ester is used on oral primobolan tablets (metenolone acetate), Finaplix (trenbolone acetate) implant pellets, and occasionally testosterone.

Propionate: Chemical Structure C3H6O2.
Also referred to as Carboxyethane; hydroacrylic acid; Methylacetic acid; Ethylformic acid; Ethanecarboxylic acid; metacetonic acid; pseudoacetic acid; Propionic Acid. Propionate esters will slow the release of a steroid for several days. To keep blood levels from fluctuating greatly, propionate compounds are usually injected two to three times weekly. Testosterone propionate and methandriol dipropionate (two separate propionate esters attached to the parent steroid methandriol) are popular items.

Phenylpropionate: Chemical Structure C9H10O2.
Also referred to as Propionic Acid Phenyl Ester. Phenylpropionate will extend the release of active steroid a few days longer than propionate. To keep blood levels even, injections are given at least twice weekly. Durabolin is the drug most commonly seen with a phenylpropionate ester (nandrolone phenylpropionate), although it is also used with testosterone in Sustanon and Omnadren.

Isocarpoate: Chemical Structure C6H12O2.
Also referred to as Isocaproic Acid; isohexanoate; 4-methylvaleric acid. Isocaproate begins to near enanthate in terms of release. The duration is still shorter, with a notable hormone level being sustained for approximately one week. This ester is used with testosterone in the blended products Sustanon and Omnadren.

Caproate: Chemical Structure C6H12O2.
Also referred to as Hexanoic acid; hexanoate; n-Caproic Acid; n-Hexoic acid; butylacetic acid; pentiformic acid; pentylformic acid; n-hexylic acid; 1-pentanecarboxylic acid; hexoic acid; 1-hexanoic acid; Hexylic acid; Caproic acid. This ester is identical to isocarpoate in terms of atom count and weight, but is laid out slightly different (Isocaproate has a split configuration, difficult to explain here but easy to see on paper). Release duration would be very similar to isocaproate (levels sustained for approximately one weak), perhaps coming slightly closer to enanthate due to its straight chain. Caproate is the slowest releasing ester used in Omnadren, which is why most athletes notice more water retention with this compound.

Enanthate: Chemical Structure C7H14O2.
Also referred to as heptanoic acid; enanthic acid; enanthylic acid; heptylic acid; heptoic acid; Oenanthylic acid; Oenanthic acid. Enanthate is one of the most prominent esters used in steroid manufacture (most commonly seen with testosterone but is also used in other compounds like Primobolan Depot). Enanthate will release a steady (yet fluctuating as all esters are) level of hormone for approximately 10-14 days. Although in medicine enanthate compounds are often injected on a bi-weekly or monthly basis, athletes will inject at least weekly to help maintain a uniform blood level.

Cypionate: Chemical Structure C8H14O2.
Also referred to as Cyclopentylpropionic acid, cyclopentylpropionate. Cypionate is a very popular ester here in the U.S., although it is scarcely found outside this region. Its release duration is almost identical to enanthate (10-14 days), and the two are likewise thought to be interchangeable in U.S. medicine. Althletes commonly hold the belief than cypionate is more powerful than enanthate, although realistically there is little difference between the two. The enanthate ester is in fact slightly smaller than cypionate, and it therefore releases a small (perhaps a few milligrams) amount of steroid more in comparison.

Decanoate: Chemical Structure C10H20O2.
Also referred to as decanoic acid; capric acid; caprinic acid; decylic acid, Nonanecarboxylic acid. The Decanoate ester is most commonly used with the hormone nandrolone (as in Deca-Durabolin) and is found in virtually all corners of the world. Testosterone decanoate is also the longest acting constituent in Sustanon, greatly extending its release duration. The release time with Decanoate compounds is listed to be as long as one month, although most recently we are finding that levels seem to drop significantly after two weeks. To keep blood levels more uniform, athletes (as they have always known to do) will follow a weekly injection schedule.

Undecylenate: Chemical Structure C11H20O2.
Also referred to as Undecylenic acid; Hendecenoic acid; Undecenoic acid. This ester is very similar to decanoate, containing only one carbon atom more. Its release duration is likewise very similar (approximately 2-3 weeks), perhaps extending a day or so past that seen with decanoate. Undecylenate seems to be exclusive to the veterinary preparation Equipoise (boldenone undecylenate), although there is no reason it would not work well in human-use preparations (Equipoise certainly works fine for athletes). Again, weekly injections are most common.

Undecanoate: Chemical Structure C11H22O2.
Also referred to as Undecanoic Acid; 1-Decanecarboxylic acid; Hendecanoic acid; Undecylic acid. Undecanoate is not a commonly found ester, and only appears to be used in the nandrolone preparation Dynabolan, and oral testosterone undecanoate (Andriol). Since this ester is chemically very similar to undecylenate (it is only 2 hydrogen atoms larger), it has a similar release duration (approximately 2-3 weeks). Although this ester is used in the oral preparation Andriol, there is no reason to believe it carries any properties unique of other esters. Andriol in fact works very poorly at delivering testosterone, bolstering the idea that oral administration is not the idea use of esterified androgens.

Laurate: Chemical structure C12H24O2.
Also referred to as Dodecanoic acid, laurostearic acid, duodecyclic acid, 1-undecanecarboxylic acid, and dodecoic acid. Laurate is the longest releasing ester used in commercial steroid production, although longer acting esters do exist. Its release duration would be closer to one month than the other esters listed above, although realistically we are probably to expect a notable drop in hormone level after the third week. Laurate is exclusively found in the veterinary nandrolone preparation Laurabolin, perhaps seen as slightly advantageous over a decanoate ester due to a less frequent injection schedule. Again athletes will most commonly inject this drug weekly, no doubt in part due to its low strength (25mg/ml or 50mg/ml).

[IronRobi]

Author of the article is unknown, but some great info

[shithead]

I agree, great info. Too many ppl jump on the GAS before they know anything about it!

[Demonwolf]

What's the dat on this?? 1995??

I thought all this differing release times standardization was debunked back in 2002??

All esters do is alter soluability, they all break off of the parent hormone by the esterase enzyme group at the same point chemically and there is little timing difference between them. Most of the injection bolus becomes active in the first 24 hours and parent hormone blood levels drop significantly within 10 days.

Sick of reading this garbage,really.

[IronRobi]

What's the dat on this?? 1995??

I thought all this differing release times standardization was debunked back in 2002??

All esters do is alter soluability, they all break off of the parent hormone by the esterase enzyme group at the same point chemically and there is little timing difference between them. Most of the injection bolus becomes active in the first 24 hours and parent hormone blood levels drop significantly within 10 days.

Sick of reading this garbage,really.

You are the first person I have EVER seen make a claim that all esters offer the same half life. So according to you, test prop, test e and test cyp are both active in your system for the same amount of time... Do you have any data to support this because I have never heard anything like this before.

[Demonwolf]

Too much work as this has taken me days to research in the past, so I 'll just say no.

Do you have any data that supports a "half-life decay" style of injecting various esters?

[IronRobi]

An important consideration when planning a steroid cycle, in particular the timing of dosing to be administered, is the active half-life of the drug being employed. The half-life may be defined as the time (t) the level is half of the starting level of a given compound; at time 2t, the level is a quarter of the starting level, and at time 3t, the level is an eighth of the starting level, and so on.

This information is vital in the timing of the dosing when attempting to achieve a more stable blood concentration, which leads to greater overall results and maintenance of gains. Some fluctuations of concentration levels are acceptable, and are also mostly unavoidable, but should be kept to a minimum.

This article covers the half-life's of the most commonly used steroids, esters and ancillary compounds.

Oral steroids

Drug Active half-life
Anadrol / Anapolan50 (oxymetholone) 8 to 9 hours
Anavar (oxandrolone) 9 hours
Dianabol (methandrostenolone, methandienone) 4.5 to 6 hours
Methyltestosterone 4 days
Winstrol (stanozolol)
(tablets or depot taken orally) 9 hours

Depot steroids

Drug Active half-life
Deca-durabolin (Nandrolone decanate) 15 days
Equipoise 14 days
Finaject (trenbolone acetate) 3 days
Primobolan (methenolone enanthate) 10.5 days
Sustanon or Omnadren 15 to 18 days
Testosterone Cypionate 12 days
Testosterone Enanthate 10.5 days
Testosterone Propionate 4.5 days
Testosterone Suspension 1 day
* Winstrol (stanozolol) 1 day

*Winstrol depot does not actually possess a classical half-life because it is un-esterified. Instead, the microcrystals dissolve slowly. Once they have all dissolved levels of the drug fall very rapidly. It is still an important consideration, and we have included it with a half-life of one day.

Steroid esters

Drug Active half-life
Formate 1.5 days
Acetate 3 days
Propionate 4.5 days
Phenylpropionate 4.5 days
Butyrate 6 days
Valerate 7.5 days
Hexanoate 9 days
Caproate 9 days
Isocaproate 9 days
Heptanoate 10.5 days
Enanthate 10.5 days
Octanoate 12 days
Cypionate 12 days
Nonanoate 13.5 days
Decanoate 15 days
Undecanoate 16.5 days

Ancillaries

Drug Active half-life
Arimidex 3 days
Clenbuterol 1.5 days
Clomid 5 days
Cytadren 6 hours
Ephedrine 6 hours
T3 10 hours

A practical example is if one was to inject 100mg of testosterone propionate and allow blood levels to peak. In 4.5 days time (half-life duration from the above tables) and providing no other injections had taken place, the level would be reduced to 50mg. Again, a further 4.5 days down the line and levels would have dropped to 25mg, and the value keeps halving every 4.5 days.

[Demonwolf]

Bro that is not proof. Have you read any research that proves this theory?

[IronRobi]

Too much work as this has taken me days to research in the past, so I 'll just say no.

Do you have any data that supports a "half-life decay" style of injecting various esters?

Please, do take the time to educate us all. You are so sick of reading "garbage" it may be because this "garbage" is what has been accepted for years in the bodybuilding and scientific communites. If you are aware of information that the rest of us should know about.

I will give you a tip though, you're on the right track when you talk about solubility.... but I don't think you fully understood what you read and how solubility effects the release

[Demonwolf]

Soluability effecting release from depot, I understand.
what i have never understood is how people think that esterases work by some force that changes the effectiveness time.

The parent hormone can only fuction at the ar after the ester has been cleaved. Hopeful we agree on that.
Let us say that we shot 500mg of test undeconate a big ester, by this way on thinking only negligable changes in circulating test would occur 24 and 48 hours after injection.

Why is it than that when you go have a blood panel 2 days after the injection that your test levels are through the roof?
Because the half-life theory doesn't hold up.
why is it that i can shoot my horse with 300mg of suspension once a week and he still maintains significant blood levels 4 days later?

What i say is that since the half-life thing isn't just a "theory", because it is so widely accpted as truth, there must be tons of data out there proving its valid, no??

[Mr Ontario]

The original author was a guy/handle named.... CaptAmera9

[IronRobi]

Soluability effecting release from depot, I understand.
what i have never understood is how people think that esterases work by some force that changes the effectiveness time.

The parent hormone can only fuction at the ar after the ester has been cleaved. Hopeful we agree on that.
Let us say that we shot 500mg of test undeconate a big ester, by this way on thinking only negligable changes in circulating test would occur 24 and 48 hours after injection.

Why is it than that when you go have a blood panel 2 days after the injection that your test levels are through the roof?
Because the half-life theory doesn't hold up.
why is it that i can shoot my horse with 300mg of suspension once a week and he still maintains significant blood levels 4 days later?

What i say is that since the half-life thing isn't just a "theory", because it is so widely accpted as truth, there must be tons of data out there proving its valid, no??

OK, here's how it works... and this is scientific. ALL DRUGS HAVE HALF LIFE`S, from tylenol to testosterone. It`s not just theory. What a half-life is, is the amount of time it takes for the values to decrease by half. Basic chemistry right? In practice, you shoot 1000mg of test. At the half life, you will have 500mg left. At twice the half life 250mg. At 3 times the half life 125. And it keeps going until it is out of your system completely.

Now, this is where you're starting down the right track. Testosterone by itself is not soluble in oil or water even though it can be suspended in water (hence test suspension) Esterfication is done to improve the compounds solubility in oil, and making it less solubale in water. The term for the ratio of it's solubility in oil:solubility in water is called the partition coefficient. The partition coefficient is what effects just how long the compound stays active in your blood stream because it slows the release into your blood. This happens because the higher the solubility in oil, the harder time it has entering your blood.

Now you may wonder how to know what the partition coefficient is of certain esters. You`re rule of thumb is the more carbons that are added, the higher solubility in oil which leads to a higher partition coefficient. So we take a minute to look back at the second thread.

Acetate: Chemical Structure C2H4O2
Enanthate: Chemical Structure C7H14O2
Decanoate: Chemical Structure C10H20O2

I`ll just use 3 as an example. You`ll see by the chemical structures of these that acetate has 2 carbons, enanthate has 7, and decanoate has 10. Since the more carbons that are added, the higher the partition coefficient and the harder it is the enter the blood, it is scientifically impossible for acetate and decanoate to be active for the same amount of time.

With a little bit of chemistry, I think I`ve just succesfully proven the half-life ``theory`` to be true, and confirmed the info in the first post.

[IronRobi]

The original author was a guy/handle named.... CaptAmera9

Thanks bro! Props to CaptAmera9 for the great article!

[RJ*]

this thread hurts my brain
for the most part mr wolf is right

blood levels reach the same peak blood levels regardless of ester - (no, not 100 % , but insignificant to the majority of users- )

ie this is why you dont need to "kickstart" a cycle is garbage, you dont

do you need to inject a prop or acetate ester more often, of course.

if you want ill get into it, but i dont want to so i wont.

[IronRobi]

this thread hurts my brain
for the most part mr wolf is right

blood levels reach the same peak blood levels regardless of ester - (no, not 100 % , but insignificant to the majority of users- )

ie this is why you dont need to "kickstart" a cycle is garbage, you dont

do you need to inject a prop or acetate ester more often, of course.

if you want ill get into it, but i dont want to so i wont.

I want to see how! If any ester hits it's peak at the same time and drops significantly in 10 days time like was claimed, then there should be absolutely no difference between the acetate ester and the enanthate ester because they'll both hit their "peak" at the same time and drop off in those 10 days.

In reality, at the 10 day mark the acetate ester will be hitting 3x half-life while the enant ester will just be hitting 1x half-life meaning the 1000mg you injected of each there will be 125mg of acetate left and 500mg of enant left. This is why, as you have agreed, you need to inject the shorter esters more often to keep your blood levels stabilized.

You both say it's garbage, but neither offer any explanation of how or why.

[Demonwolf]

Ok, first of all, nice post.

2nd, when you say "500mg enanth left" - WHERE is it left? En depot?

Part of the problem is that oil IS soluable in blood, and the capilary bed starts to instantly pick up little globules of oil and then enters in to general circulation. Some esterases work almost immediately[forgetting genetic variation] in the general circulation, some exist only in the liver.

3rd Esterase activity and efficiency[time] work faster the more there are[again genetics]. And the larger the depot generally speaking, the longer it will take to leave the depot.

These factors all effect time, giving a decent variation.

Trust when we say levels peak quickly and then start to die off almost as quickly. Or simply try for yourself. Shoot a long ester of testosterone and the run a panel 36-48hrs later.

[Demonwolf]

ok so I've looked for a while and haven't found it yet, but here' something that starts you pointed along the line.

Do a search on google or whatever on "logarythmic hormone levels" and notice that the blood concentrations of injected hormones is logarythmic in action and not linear.

Sorry, like i sad this type of research really only started popping up in the last 5-10 yrs and prior, the half-life decay [likened to elements of the periodic table] was the acepted theory.

[IronRobi]

Hey sorry, I missed your reply here. I'm at work right now but I'll look up logarythmic hormone levels when I get home and see what I find.

[Sean]

The goal of injecting steriods is to increase blood levels of testosterone much higher than can be achieved normally. One of our criteria in doing this is to keep blood levels as stable as possible throughout cycle to provide the best environment for growth and to avoid as many sides as possible. I believe many side effects are caused by the spikes and dips created by once or twice a week injections, even using long esters. A way to reduce these sides would be to use a proper half life to determine when to inject or more importantly how much to frontload with.

Now most half lives are calculated on 1.5 x the number of carbon atoms to determine 1/2 life in days. Thats wrong! If you go to PMed or AMJ you can look up numerous studies showing a much shorter half life(@ .7 per carbon atom)

That difference is because esters decay at a logarithmic rate, meaning the more esterified hormone in the injection depot, the more is released. This release rate slows as the amount of esterified hormone in the depot is reduced over time.
The general rule is about 0.7 X the number of carbons atoms in a linear ester . However when the body builder needs to keep in mind is that the majority of the esterified hormone is released, regardless of the ester, with the first 24hrs of injection because of the logarithmic rate of decay.


What does this mean in simple terms?
I'll useTestosterone Enthante in an 8 week cycle as an example:

Assume a 5 day half life for enthanate based on .7 x it's carbons.
Injecting 579mg on day one of your cycle will provide stable levels of 550 mg per week for the duration of your cycle provided you replentish 75 mg EVERY DAY.
INJECT
Day 1- 579- giving you 550 mg in 24 hours
Day 2 75 giving you 550 mg
Day 3 75 550
Day 4 75 550
Day 5 75 550
Day 6 75 550
Day 7 75 550
Day 8 75 550
Day 9 75 550
Day10 75 550
Day11 75 550
Day12 75 550

and so on until day 57 when you stop injections
decay clearance is as follows
DAY Total MG
58 479
59 417
60 363
61 316
62 275
63 240
64 209
65 182
66 158
67 138
68 120
69 104
70 91
71 79
72 69
73 60
74 52
75 45
76 40
77 34
78 30
79 26
80 23
81 20
82 17
83 15
84 13
85 11
all the way down to day 98 (end of week 14) before the enth is totally cleared.
__________________


Enthanate Clearance 500 mg

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now let's look at 1 shot of test enthanate of 500mg taken on day one.

It will take 8 weeks to clear(assuming a 5 day 1/2 life)

DAY Injected 500 mg(level)

1 500
2 475
3 414
4 360
5 313
6 273
7 238
8 207
9 180
10 157
11 136
12 119
13 103
14 90

and so- on until week 9 when it reaches 0.

Enthanate injected E3D at 250 mg-levels

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

NOw lets look at Injections of Test Enthanate every 4 days with 250 mg.
Blood levels are all over the place and create many dips and spikes.
Not a prime anabolic environment. It takes 7 days and 3 injections to even get to 500 mg(498) adn then continues to dip and spike the 500 mark until week 4 but then the spikes are over 600 mg. This daily flucuation cannot be good for combating sides or keeping steady growth rate.
The other way to look at it is $$$$. 500 ed levels would be more economical. You'd gain more.
I wonder if the 2 grams a week guys would do better on 1 gram injected every day vs 3x a week.


DAY INJECT TOTAL

1 250 238
2 0 207
3 0 180
4 250 394
5 0 343
6 0 299
7 250 498
8 0 433
9 0 377
10 250 566
11 0 493
12 0 429
13 250 611
14 0 532
15 0 463
16 250 640
17 0 558
18 0 485
19 250 660
20 0 575
21 0 500
22 250 673
23 0 586
24 0 510
25 250 681
26 0 593
27 0 518
28 250 687
29 0 598
30 0 521

and so on.

Posted by Warriorwithin

I don't know if I agree with those numbers. None the less Demonwolf is right
, just have to go look for yourself. Not on these boards but on tests done like Pubmed. By the way can I stick winny under my tongue IR?

[RJ*]

several studies show peak blood levels are reached within 4 days regardless of ester
i cant get into it, it is pretty elementary, i dont knock the poster, he knows more than 90 % of the gym people i know.
same studies show the prop and acetate ester tapers off much more quickly, hence quicker injection schedule


hence hwy "kicking in" is my biggest pet peeve

[IronRobi]

and so on until day 57 when you stop injections
decay clearance is as follows
DAY Total MG
58 479
59 417
60 363
61 316
62 275
63 240
64 209
65 182
66 158
67 138
68 120
69 104
70 91
71 79
72 69
73 60
74 52
75 45
76 40
77 34
78 30
79 26
80 23
81 20
82 17
83 15
84 13
85 11
all the way down to day 98 (end of week 14) before the enth is totally cleared.

I don't know if I agree with those numbers. None the less Demonwolf is right
, just have to go look for yourself. Not on these boards but on tests done like Pubmed. By the way can I stick winny under my tongue IR?

If anything, this post just shows how the original thread is correct +/- the difference in the half life time. Starting at 500mg, at the half life you will have 50% of that so 250mg. Yes obviously the time in between it will be a gradual drop. It's not like for the first X amount of days you will have 500mg then as soon as the next day hits it suddenly drops to 250mg.

What I like about this thread is how it does bring up a really good point about dosing and blood levels. It's really interesting to think of dosing as replenishing values instead of total weekly values. The idea of daily injections though just brings back nightmares of running suspension hahaha.

This thread also uses the calculation of .7 x number of carbons for the half life, and in the original thread it shows the number of carbons for each ester showing once again it is impossible for enanthate and acetate to have the same levels from day one through day 10.

However, if you use replenishing dosages ED instead of twice weekly you CAN achieve a steady level with both esters, however because of the shorter half life of ace or prop compared to enanthate it will require higher replenishing dosages to achieve this.

Good thread! It does give me something to think about for planning my injections for my next cycle.

[Sean]

If you look for it, there is a research paper on HRT patients and how the Enanthate Esters Peaked within the first 24 hours and then dropped. Again I wouldn't put to much stock in the numbers on that post I laid out. There are alot of theories but to say Enanthate has a half life of 10 days is really misleading IMO. Too many factors, but if you look around some boards have profiles that Enanthate has a half life of 5 days, hell even the roid calculator says 5 days lol. People use the copy and paste Esters half lifes as simply a referance for bodybuilding. If you dig deep you'll see other things alot of people don't. These boards need people to research because the old stuff that held true once, is really out dated. Time for an over haul IMO..

[Demonwolf]

That isn't the exact thing i was looking for, but along very similar lines. So thank you.


The goal of injecting steriods is to increase blood levels of testosterone much higher than can be achieved normally. One of our criteria in doing this is to keep blood levels as stable as possible throughout cycle to provide the best environment for growth and to avoid as many sides as possible. I believe many side effects are caused by the spikes and dips created by once or twice a week injections, even using long esters. A way to reduce these sides would be to use a proper half life to determine when to inject or more importantly how much to frontload with.

Now most half lives are calculated on 1.5 x the number of carbon atoms to determine 1/2 life in days. Thats wrong! If you go to PMed or AMJ you can look up numerous studies showing a much shorter half life(@ .7 per carbon atom)

That difference is because esters decay at a logarithmic rate, meaning the more esterified hormone in the injection depot, the more is released. This release rate slows as the amount of esterified hormone in the depot is reduced over time.
The general rule is about 0.7 X the number of carbons atoms in a linear ester . However when the body builder needs to keep in mind is that the majority of the esterified hormone is released, regardless of the ester, with the first 24hrs of injection because of the logarithmic rate of decay.


What does this mean in simple terms?
I'll useTestosterone Enthante in an 8 week cycle as an example:

Assume a 5 day half life for enthanate based on .7 x it's carbons.
Injecting 579mg on day one of your cycle will provide stable levels of 550 mg per week for the duration of your cycle provided you replentish 75 mg EVERY DAY.
INJECT
Day 1- 579- giving you 550 mg in 24 hours
Day 2 75 giving you 550 mg
Day 3 75 550
Day 4 75 550
Day 5 75 550
Day 6 75 550
Day 7 75 550
Day 8 75 550
Day 9 75 550
Day10 75 550
Day11 75 550
Day12 75 550

and so on until day 57 when you stop injections
decay clearance is as follows
DAY Total MG
58 479
59 417
60 363
61 316
62 275
63 240
64 209
65 182
66 158
67 138
68 120
69 104
70 91
71 79
72 69
73 60
74 52
75 45
76 40
77 34
78 30
79 26
80 23
81 20
82 17
83 15
84 13
85 11
all the way down to day 98 (end of week 14) before the enth is totally cleared.
__________________


Enthanate Clearance 500 mg

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Now let's look at 1 shot of test enthanate of 500mg taken on day one.

It will take 8 weeks to clear(assuming a 5 day 1/2 life)

DAY Injected 500 mg(level)

1 500
2 475
3 414
4 360
5 313
6 273
7 238
8 207
9 180
10 157
11 136
12 119
13 103
14 90

and so- on until week 9 when it reaches 0.

Enthanate injected E3D at 250 mg-levels

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

NOw lets look at Injections of Test Enthanate every 4 days with 250 mg.
Blood levels are all over the place and create many dips and spikes.
Not a prime anabolic environment. It takes 7 days and 3 injections to even get to 500 mg(498) adn then continues to dip and spike the 500 mark until week 4 but then the spikes are over 600 mg. This daily flucuation cannot be good for combating sides or keeping steady growth rate.
The other way to look at it is $$$$. 500 ed levels would be more economical. You'd gain more.
I wonder if the 2 grams a week guys would do better on 1 gram injected every day vs 3x a week.


DAY INJECT TOTAL

1 250 238
2 0 207
3 0 180
4 250 394
5 0 343
6 0 299
7 250 498
8 0 433
9 0 377
10 250 566
11 0 493
12 0 429
13 250 611
14 0 532
15 0 463
16 250 640
17 0 558
18 0 485
19 250 660
20 0 575
21 0 500
22 250 673
23 0 586
24 0 510
25 250 681
26 0 593
27 0 518
28 250 687
29 0 598
30 0 521

and so on.

Posted by Warriorwithin

I don't know if I agree with those numbers. None the less Demonwolf is right
, just have to go look for yourself. Not on these boards but on tests done like Pubmed. By the way can I stick winny under my tongue IR?