What do you guys think???

[ironwill]

Discuss if so inclined...

This was written by a construction worker.

I work, they pay me. I pay my taxes, and the government distributes my
taxes as it sees fit...... In order to earn that pay check, I work on a
rig site for a Fort McMurray construction project. At any time I am
required to pass a random urine test, with which I have no problem.
HOWEVER, what I do have a problem with is the distribution of my taxes to
people who don't have to pass a urine test. Shouldn't one have to pass a
urine test to get a welfare check because I have to pass one to earn it
for them? Understand - I have no problem with helping people get back on
their feet. I do on the other hand have a real big problem with helping
someone sit on their ass, drink beer and do drugs.. Could you imagine how
much money this country would save if people had to pass a urine test to
get a public assistance check?

[tiramisu]

Written by a man who has never been there and has no clue. While I'm not even close to liberal it doesn't keep me from rolling my eyes when the ignorant or stupid spew crap.

When said dumb**** construction worker has both his legs crushed and his long term disability runs out he'll be singing a different tune. None of us are really that far from being completely ****ed.

[Danger]

I dont agree with this particular statment I dont however agree thats its ****ed up that the harder and longer you work the more you pay in taxes... that seems kinda wrong.

I mean anyone who works any real ovetime has probably noticed that on some cheques the government gets almost as much are you take home... and then they tax you again on every cent you spend, and it only gets worse if you want to buy some gas to actually get to work cuz they tax you again on that... heaven forbid you want to drink or smoke.

Shit with everyone paying so much in taxes im surprised more people arent doing drugs lol, Id love to just get high and forget that every year the government gets more of what I earn than I do....

[Knuckles28]

Seen this before,i dont agree with employers drug testing and no way would i ever let the Gov test me.
Isn't the reason theres so many crack/coke heads in fort mac because of testing?? crack/coke leaves the system fast as opposed to pot.

[rob66679]

Written by a man who has never been there and has no clue. While I'm not even close to liberal it doesn't keep me from rolling my eyes when the ignorant or stupid spew crap.

When said dumb**** construction worker has both his legs crushed and his long term disability runs out he'll be singing a different tune. None of us are really that far from being completely ****ed.

I totally agree that 99% of the time statements like this are made by people who have never been there, and have no idea what it's like.

At the same time, welfare ( as opposed to LTD or EI ) is not, and never was meant to be a way of life. There has to be a combination of carrot and stick here.
There are way to many Fathers who don't financially support their kids so tax dollars have to, and way to many women who are content to sit home and collect Government money instead of trying to become financially independent.

IMHO..... If your on welfare, you should have to be on a long-term plan to be self-suffient. I really think thats the bigger issue here, more so than drug use.
From what I hear about Ft Mac the boys out there do as many drugs as anybody lol. But they pay for it themselves, and thats the point.

The big problem isn't drugs, its peoples attitudes.

[Talo]

All he's saying is they should have to pass a drug test. He's not saying " don't give people money ". And I agree.

It has nothing to do with that fact that I've never been in that situation or not. The thing is if I lost my job today and could not get a job at all them maybe I would go on welfare , but u would not start drinking heavily and do drugs . I would pass that drug test , especially if it meant me feeding my family or not.

[tiramisu]

The implication is that people taking social assistance are drug addicts and alcoholics. This is a the exception not the rule. The mentally ill, physically and mentally handicapped, disabled, singles mothers make up the vast majority. How do I know? Been there, done that. There's no money for alcohol or drugs on social assistance. For a single male there's not enough for food let alone bus fare. It's an evil trap. If you can get some day labour and get yourself bootstrapped out it works but many are trapped by the incredible poverty and their own inability.

When I was down, social assistance provide 400$ a month for rent and 400$ a month for everything else. As an adult male try eating on that let alone paying for bus fare. Good luck paying for a pair of work boots. There isn't any money for drugs or alcohol unless you are a thief or a drug dealer. It simply can't be done. You do the math.

The posting that social systems need to be revamped to aid self-sufficiency is spot on. Sadly those that need social assistance often have permanent crushing physical and mental issues that make it impossible for them to be self sufficient. In the 70's when we kicked the mentally ill out of provincially run institutions they did not simply die or cease to exist. Instead they became the homeless drooling scary people wandering around downtown.

In manitoba we have the extra burden of a significant percentage of our aboriginal population still living a life based on the "indian reserve". None of this will be resolved by drug testing or an assumption that drugs or alcohol are the cause or solution to the problem.

.... Much to long of a response on my part. I should have just stuck with ****tard redneck.

[Talo]

Ok , but if they made you take a drug test would you have passed ? Prob , yes with no worries.

Let's say 30% of the people that are on assistance would not pass a drug test ( far to say ) . Now what if they all got $800 a month also , but now if they don't pass the drug test they will get nothing .

The $800 per person can now go to solid people in real need ( like single moms or dads ) , maybe they will get 1200 instead of 800.

I don't think we can expect to pay leas money in tax , but it would be nice to see the right peole getting this money and possibly more of it since it is so hard to live off of what they currently get.

[tiramisu]

That you think 30% of social assistance receiver are drug dealers or thiefs that such that they can afford to be alcoholics or drug addicts is the problem.

You are missing out on the math.

1. 400 goes directly to the landlord.
2. 400 = 100 per week to live - I'm not sure how much a bag of weed is but if you buy soap, toilet paper, and some food for a week there isn't much left. You pretty much need to beg borrow or steal a bicycle because you can't pay for the bus. Even a cheap bottle of wine is 10$ and there isn't enough money to buy 2 of them.

The numbers just don't add up for me. Again unless you are a drug dealer or a thief there isn't any money while on social assistance to allow for being on drugs/alcohol.

To assume 30% are is a gross misunderstanding of the brutal poverty that social assistance imposes.

[Ritch]

That you think 30% of social assistance receiver are drug dealers or thiefs that such that they can afford to be alcoholics or drug addicts is the problem.

You are missing out on the math.

1. 400 goes directly to the landlord.
2. 400 = 100 per week to live - I'm not sure how much a bag of weed is but if you buy soap, toilet paper, and some food for a week there isn't much left. You pretty much need to beg borrow or steal a bicycle because you can't pay for the bus. Even a cheap bottle of wine is 10$ and there isn't enough money to buy 2 of them.

The numbers just don't add up for me. Again unless you are a drug dealer or a thief there isn't any money while on social assistance to allow for being on drugs/alcohol.

To assume 30% are is a gross misunderstanding of the brutal poverty that social assistance imposes.

very well said.

[Talo]

It was just a number I used as an example.

All I'm saying is if a person is using drugs and that is what their money is going to then I don't think they should get assistance and they should be drug tested.

Like the original letter said if I have to get drug tested for my job then why shouldn't they ?

There are people that abuse the system and there are those that need it and could use more , while they are down and hurting. So if we can eliminate the 30% ( again just a number , shit for all I know it could be higher ) of abusers then that woul give more money to the ones in true need.

[tiramisu]

Here are real numbers from 2003 in Manitoba. It's even bleaker than it was 15 years ago when I needed help.

You can not "abuse" this little money. It is not enough survive on.
http://www.winnipegharvest.org/hunger/2003%20A.L.L.%20Report.pdf

While Alberta may be the land of milk and honey the issue of extreme poverty here is a real one. Our native population here have no mineral rights and we don't have a billion dollar fund to dip into.

We likely need to double or quadruple our social assistance funding to make it effective in helping people be self sufficient but there's generally not enough money to fill the damn pot holes in the tax base.

There's a reason why places like Winnipeg and Regina are as violent and dirty as major sea ports.

I really should have moved to Alberta with all the guys from PEI and New Brunswick when the latest oil boom took off so I could be a wealthy red neck too.

[BIGABOY]

I belive in this statment to and IW will back me on this one i pay alot in taxes cause i work alot of overtime, and I have certian standards to keep my job to , I would like to see the drug testing to get a welfare check, but i dont belive in people that where on welfare when alberta was booming if you could breathe you had a job. I am only 24 and i have worked my butt off to get where iam and when i see people older then that are fine to work on welfare or asking for money i tell them to f off

BIGABOY

[ironwill]

Tiramisu, he said that he has no problem with folks getting back on their feet......What he is saying is that if he has to take a drug test to make money and be safe, then he feels that folks on assistance should need a random test to make sure they are functional and able to search for work.....Now i do agree that many welfare folks are not on drugs, but ill guarantee a lot of drug dealers collect welfare....
Obviously this is a touchy issue with you...no shame in being down and out and needing help bro, but quite a few dont do that, quite a few make it a lifestyle, dont kid yourself....My perception of what the author is saying is that if you want assistance you should do a random test now and then when your number comes up to be sure you are fit to search for work and coherent enough to make it through an interview....

[MMASTAR]

there should definetly be better screening to decide who ges welfare...i dont think anyone can argue that.

[guest]

The implication is that people taking social assistance are drug addicts and alcoholics. This is a the exception not the rule. The mentally ill, physically and mentally handicapped, disabled, singles mothers make up the vast majority. How do I know? Been there, done that.

then drug testing should not affect them. i say weed out the shitheads, even if it is a low percentage. will that not allow the people that need help to be better served?

[Talo]

I thought welfare and such were a National issue , didn't realize it was so bad in Winni .

Alberta has natives and homelessness , but I guess they don't count because we are all rich up here.


I'm sure glad I got out of Ontario when I did because these golden highways are alot smoother.

[ironwill]

then drug testing should not affect them. i say weed out the shitheads, even if it is a low percentage. will that not allow the people that need help to be better served?

said better than me!!!!:)

[rob66679]

Tiramisu, he said that he has no problem with folks getting back on their feet......What he is saying is that if he has to take a drug test to make money and be safe, then he feels that folks on assistance should need a random test to make sure they are functional and able to search for work.....Now i do agree that many welfare folks are not on drugs, but ill guarantee a lot of drug dealers collect welfare....
Obviously this is a touchy issue with you...no shame in being down and out and needing help bro, but quite a few dont do that, quite a few make it a lifestyle, dont kid yourself....My perception of what the author is saying is that if you want assistance you should do a random test now and then when your number comes up to be sure you are fit to search for work and coherent enough to make it through an interview....

I don't have a problem with drug testing for social assistance.

That being said, I think the bigger problem is that for many their "number" never does come up, because they lack the skills and mindset to actually do an effective job search.

Forget about being coherent for the interview, actually getting the interview is the big issue. For a lot of people it doesn't happen, for some its mental issues, some maybe physical. But for the majority IMHO its attitude.

Even if the people who are caught using are denied assistance, it won't save enough money to make a difference for those that are clean or working.
**** drug testing, long term career planning, education, and mentoring would make me feel better about it. At least I'd know they were working towards being self-suffient, and thats the ultimate money saver.

Give a man a fish, he eats for a day.
Teach a man to fish...........

[Victor85]

Taxes arent just for social programs, they are used for many different things. Canada is a great place to live. I am originaly from Guatemala and I can honestly say that we are f*cking lucky to be here, even with taxes. Guatemala may be my birth place, but its a horrible place to be in.