opinions on fruits and when to eat them

[kev ute]

I never really here much said about fruits consumption on here.

Are fruits not a good thing to be eating? I have one banana first thing in the morning with a shake. then i try to eat 3 apples and 1-2 oranges a day. i try to eat them early in the day.

But sometimes i'll have an apple 1-2 hours before bed as a cheat instead of some sort of junk, as before bed is the hardest time for me. This is when i get major sugar cravings and i figure an apple is better than some crap that my mind will crave!

So what are your thoughts on all this? When are fruits ok to eat and how much? My current diet is pretty high in protein and good fats, and medium low for carbs as far as i'm concerned. Wanting to lose BF but still keep most of my muscle and strength. Is this still possible with my current fruit intake?

My thought is that fruits are a natural sugar and therefore easier for the body to burn off.

Am i totally off on all of this?

[JonnyO]

I would try to keep the fruits to a minimum at night if trying to lean down.

Having some with your first meal as well as before and/or after training is fine. Apples are a good choice with the benefit of some fiber. I been eating a lot of Kiwi lately, very good for you and taste awesome high in vitamins.

But as you want to get even leaner, fruits would be the first thing I would suggest to cut out after dairy.

If your craving something sweet at night, try some sugar free jello or popsicles.

[MMASTAR]

If you are going to be eating fruits try to stick to the ones lower on the GI, like berries and melons. Fruits are good as a snack but when dieting you need to watch your fruit intake.

[Delt King]

Best time to take in fruits...offseason bulking. lol

[White-Tiger]

I thought fruits post-workout were a bad idea because fructose can only be used to replenish liver glycogen as where dextrose is able to replenish both liver and muscle glycogen?

When I'm cutting I typically cut out fruits pretty early. I'll have some on carb up days...and sometimes ill cheat a little on a cup of berries (which has only like 69 calories and high fiber so I dont feel so bad).

[Ritch]

I thought fruits post-workout were a bad idea because fructose can only be used to replenish liver glycogen as where dextrose is able to replenish both liver and muscle glycogen?

When I'm cutting I typically cut out fruits pretty early. I'll have some on carb up days...and sometimes ill cheat a little on a cup of berries (which has only like 69 calories and high fiber so I dont feel so bad).

True about the fructose issue.

When cutting frozen berries in your morning oatmeal is fine. I do it everyday even when cutting.

[JonnyO]

When I refer to cutting I refer to contest prep guys. SOrry for the confusion.

[ironwill]

Fruits are great to eat around beef meals and heavy meals...It has great enzymes in many of them to assist in digestion etc...Not all sugars in fruits are fructose and i used them when cutting, not in contest prep, but for good health and digestion when cutting up for BF loss...
Great in the am, and early in the day...I dont eat after 3-4 pm any day even when bulking...When bulking i eat chocolate cake etc....lol...

[sneakyfingers]

I agree with JonnyO, first meal and pre and post-workout is a good time

[kev ute]

I like johnnyO's suggestion of sugar free jello and popsickles at night as cheats! That could work for me. And what is an excellent source of dextrose?

[Jazzy]

i'm agree with JohnnyO Too!

Fruits are good, but for bulking, but for cutting, i'll cut them or, if i'm down 10%BF, I have some carbs in the breakfast and post-workout!

And for eating an apple before bed, I think it's not a good idea because the release fo insuline inhibit the production of GH! So, It's counter-productive!

[rickyboy36]

First meal is fine cause glycogen levels are really low in the morning.Id stick with berries,grapefruit or an apple.After your PWO shake is another time where your body/liver will absorb it pretty well..

[LondonMuscle]

fructose is a highly lipogenic sugar but it only exists in small portions in nature and our body is quite capable handling small amounts... most veggies have some and fruits have a bit more but 1 cup of blueberries for example has only 7g of fructose

it is believed that the carb intake of ancesterol diets was less than 5% fructose while today it is closer to 20%, you can thank HFCS for this of course! the body was never meant to handle such huge influxes of fructose but as a result fructose in general has gotten a bad rap and now ppl want to avoid any food at all that contains it including nutrition fruits and veggies

my thoughts are that 1-2 fruits per day are fine even for competitors cept maybe the last few weeks of a diet dependent on progress... if one can consume 5 cups of rice per day without a second thought, im confident they can also handle a cup or 2 of berries!

[LondonMuscle]

First meal is fine cause glycogen levels are really low in the morning.Id stick with berries,grapefruit or an apple.After your PWO shake is another time where your body/liver will absorb it pretty well..

if you go to bed glycogen loaded, you should wake up glycogen loaded... unless of course you are and avid sleep walker/runner :)

[bigtavi8]

I undertand what everyone is saying here is that fruits wont help or hurt. They taste good and get the glycogen up. Offseason chow down just if im in pre contest mode i think of my body like this. A well tuned machine. You get out in your physique exactly what you put in. Ex. If i put in once cup of rice VS 1 cup of berries. Which carb is better for growth and a better option. Same with differnt types of meat. Eat lean and trimmed chicken and your lean and trim. Eat fatty ass meats and your going to be fat. Variance and changing it up keeps dieting interesting but i only trust what works for me and fruits have never helped me in any season. I overload vitamins so im not worried about that issue.

[btufts]

Fruits are great to eat around beef meals and heavy meals...It has great enzymes in many of them to assist in digestion etc...Not all sugars in fruits are fructose and i used them when cutting, not in contest prep, but for good health and digestion when cutting up for BF loss...
Great in the am, and early in the day...I dont eat after 3-4 pm any day even when bulking...When bulking i eat chocolate cake etc....lol...

krispy kreme donuts for me... just one dozen though

[Ritch]

I undertand what everyone is saying here is that fruits wont help or hurt. They taste good and get the glycogen up. Offseason chow down just if im in pre contest mode i think of my body like this. A well tuned machine. You get out in your physique exactly what you put in. Ex. If i put in once cup of rice VS 1 cup of berries. Which carb is better for growth and a better option. Same with differnt types of meat. Eat lean and trimmed chicken and your lean and trim. Eat fatty ass meats and your going to be fat. Variance and changing it up keeps dieting interesting but i only trust what works for me and fruits have never helped me in any season. I overload vitamins so im not worried about that issue.

I like what you say in the last sentence. To me fruits while gaining are a nice portable source of carbs. While dieting, I just prefer oatmeal and brown rice as my stable carb sources.

[Ritch]

if you go to bed glycogen loaded, you should wake up glycogen loaded... unless of course you are and avid sleep walker/runner :)

Well said...

[rickyboy36]

if you go to bed glycogen loaded, you should wake up glycogen loaded... unless of course you are and avid sleep walker/runner :)

What i meant was you'll be burning glycogen from your liver all night.It is this that fuels your heart and brain along with other vital organs.If im not mistaken its something along the lines of 30 calories an hour.In the morning when you wake up,liver glycogen is 1/2 depleted ,therefore leaving you room for some fruit

And remember..our bodies need a certain amount of calories just to survive and in my case its 2600 calories a day..and this is being burned even if I decide to sleep all day...:).Glycogen would also be released by the muscles if the body ever needs some..along with proteins and fats...

[LondonMuscle]

you only store about 100g of glycogen in the liver, so even if you used half it would only be 50g, plus only the brain requires glucose... you would also use less glycogen at night than you would at any other point in the day due to low energy expenditure... as well even though all energy systems are always at work, when sleeping its almost completely aerobic energy based ie. lypolysis

my point is that your demands for glucose are lower at night than they are at any other point in the day... if you go to bed glycogen loaded and use almost nothing when you sleep, u will not wake up in a depleted state... even marathon runners after their races still have glycogen reserves left over!

im totally against the old myth that a high carbohydrate meal is necessary in the morning, especially if the reasoning behind that strategy is to recover lost glycogen while sleeping! in your case you said they were "really low" while id say they barely have a dent in them

[rickyboy36]

you only store about 100g of glycogen in the liver, so even if you used half it would only be 50g, plus only the brain requires glucose... you would also use less glycogen at night than you would at any other point in the day due to low energy expenditure... as well even though all energy systems are always at work, when sleeping its almost completely aerobic energy based ie. lypolysis

my point is that your demands for glucose are lower at night than they are at any other point in the day... if you go to bed glycogen loaded and use almost nothing when you sleep, u will not wake up in a depleted state... even marathon runners after their races still have glycogen reserves left over!

im totally against the old myth that a high carbohydrate meal is necessary in the morning, especially if the reasoning behind that strategy is to recover lost glycogen while sleeping! in your case you said they were "really low" while id say they barely have a dent in them

You see,just being asleep at night for 8 hours,your body requires 800 calories to survive and probably more because this is the time of day where repairs are being made and so forth.Your body burns more than 50 carbs a night..probably in the range of 100 carbs +.That of course is assuming your BSM is 2400 calories a day.Remember BSM is calculated as your body being at rest with zero energy expenditure on your part..Ya ok,im splitting hairs here but my point is when you wake up in the morning there is enough "room" for fruit if you care to have some.Plus,how many people have 100g carb meals in the morning without any problems.The thing we must also take into consideration is "cut off" time the night before.My 2 last meals have practically zero carbs in them which therefore leaves me a bit depleted by the time i hit the sack..

[btufts]

You see,just being asleep at night for 8 hours,your body requires 800 calories to survive and probably more because this is the time of day where repairs are being made and so forth.Your body burns more than 50 carbs a night..probably in the range of 100 carbs +.That of course is assuming your BSM is 2400 calories a day.Remember BSM is calculated as your body being at rest with zero energy expenditure on your part..Ya ok,im splitting hairs here but my point is when you wake up in the morning there is enough "room" for fruit if you care to have some.Plus,how many people have 100g carb meals in the morning without any problems.The thing we must also take into consideration is "cut off" time the night before.My 2 last meals have practically zero carbs in them which therefore leaves me a bit depleted by the time i hit the sack..

even when bulking? I've been basically eating maybe on average 80g carbs give or take a meal for 6 meals a day and maybe i'm still just rebounding from the competition but i was 190 on stage and 215 right now still with 6 pack lol sorry to switch topics but i tend to have my cup of blueberries in the morning... if that adds to the conversation :)

[rickyboy36]

even when bulking? I've been basically eating maybe on average 80g carbs give or take a meal for 6 meals a day and maybe i'm still just rebounding from the competition but i was 190 on stage and 215 right now still with 6 pack lol sorry to switch topics but i tend to have my cup of blueberries in the morning... if that adds to the conversation :)

Yup,even when bulking.I get all my carbs in the beginning of the day.I think DC also supports this notion of cutting carbs off in the evening.To me it makes sense eating carbs when you wake up,after 8 hours of fasting.Your body absorbs them like a sponge.Then at night,eat the required amount of fat and proteins.Of course veggies can be eaten at this time seeing they are very slow to digest.But once ive reached my 400g of carbs a day,thats it for me.

[btufts]

How much do you weigh when your bulking up rick? do you find you get very fat when you get bulky?

[LondonMuscle]

You see,just being asleep at night for 8 hours,your body requires 800 calories to survive and probably more because this is the time of day where repairs are being made and so forth.Your body burns more than 50 carbs a night..probably in the range of 100 carbs +.That of course is assuming your BSM is 2400 calories a day.Remember BSM is calculated as your body being at rest with zero energy expenditure on your part..Ya ok,im splitting hairs here but my point is when you wake up in the morning there is enough "room" for fruit if you care to have some.Plus,how many people have 100g carb meals in the morning without any problems.The thing we must also take into consideration is "cut off" time the night before.My 2 last meals have practically zero carbs in them which therefore leaves me a bit depleted by the time i hit the sack..

not sure how many carbs your body burns at night but there are a few figures i know for sure... 1. your brain requires 120g of glucose per day for it to operate 2. the brain is the only organ in the body that MUST have glucose in order to operate 3. the brain uses less glucose at night than it does during the day which means that out of that 120g less than a third is used while sleeping so less than 40g 4. 10-15% of your protein intake is converted into glucose via gluconeoegensis, so 300g of protein = 30-45g of glucose 5. your main energy system while sleeping is lypolysis, not glycolosis

what all of the above means is that the amount of glycogen you use while you sleep is next to nothing at all, like basically zippo... as well, your BMR cannot be level loaded throughout the day, the mere act of being awake and performing cognitive tasks increases metabolic rate consistently... but pretend that you do burn 800 cals while sleeping, if you said you also burn 100g of carbs, u are saying 400 of those 800 cals are from glycolosis which we know is false... a 1500m race is over 80% aerobic energy system based, so resting is likely over 90% which means that less than 100 cals of those 800 are being supported by glycolosis, so about 20-30g of carbs!

not sure if there are any studies that specifically show this but id be willing to bet my left nut that appreciably change in muscle glycogen status tested via a muscle biopsy cannot be witnessed by the mere act of sleeping one night!


now perhaps if the goal is to be glycogen loaded at all points of the day for every second then you could make the arguement that you do have some "room" in the AM for more carbs, but this can case could be made at any point of the day really, especially during and immediately pwo... however id argue with the very premise that being glycogen loaded is not a goal at all... your car runs just as well off the first third of a tank of gas as it does the second, it just doesnt run when its on empty

anyways, the reason for this post was simply because you said your glycogen status was "very low" but it now seems you have revised your stance to say there is just some room, which maybe there is, i just dont think thats important

[rickyboy36]

How much do you weigh when your bulking up rick? do you find you get very fat when you get bulky?

I weigh in at around 210lbs-220 when bulking.I only get fat when i dont count calories,or when I dont choose the right "carbs".I tend to retain water when i eat rice,and potatoes,so i stay away from those carb sources.Oatmeal and pasta(cooked aldenté actually has a lower GI value than rice and oatmeal) are my carbs of preference...along with veggies of course and "some" fruit.

The thing is though,at the age of 39,Ive kinda changed my way of thinking I have towards weight training where maintaining and staying lean and eating healthy is what's paramount to me now.My goal is to look good yr round now,so choosing the right foods and the right amounts is what helps me achieve this.

[rickyboy36]

not sure how many carbs your body burns at night but there are a few figures i know for sure... 1. your brain requires 120g of glucose per day for it to operate 2. the brain is the only organ in the body that MUST have glucose in order to operate 3. the brain uses less glucose at night than it does during the day which means that out of that 120g less than a third is used while sleeping so less than 40g 4. 10-15% of your protein intake is converted into glucose via gluconeoegensis, so 300g of protein = 30-45g of glucose 5. your main energy system while sleeping is lypolysis, not glycolosis

what all of the above means is that the amount of glycogen you use while you sleep is next to nothing at all, like basically zippo... as well, your BMR cannot be level loaded throughout the day, the mere act of being awake and performing cognitive tasks increases metabolic rate consistently... but pretend that you do burn 800 cals while sleeping, if you said you also burn 100g of carbs, u are saying 400 of those 800 cals are from glycolosis which we know is false... a 1500m race is over 80% aerobic energy system based, so resting is likely over 90% which means that less than 100 cals of those 800 are being supported by glycolosis, so about 20-30g of carbs!

not sure if there are any studies that specifically show this but id be willing to bet my left nut that appreciably change in muscle glycogen status tested via a muscle biopsy cannot be witnessed by the mere act of sleeping one night!


now perhaps if the goal is to be glycogen loaded at all points of the day for every second then you could make the arguement that you do have some "room" in the AM for more carbs, but this can case could be made at any point of the day really, especially during and immediately pwo... however id argue with the very premise that being glycogen loaded is not a goal at all... your car runs just as well off the first third of a tank of gas as it does the second, it just doesnt run when its on empty

anyways, the reason for this post was simply because you said your glycogen status was "very low" but it now seems you have revised your stance to say there is just some room, which maybe there is, i just dont think thats important

What i should of said is not they are "very low" but rather you have sufficient room to store carbs upon awakeing.Maybe our bodies can supercompensate in the morning???Just by personal expierience,and im sure you will agree, that when you wake up and look at yourself you can see that your muscles are somewhat depleted.They are flat looking.And even though you seem to be leaner and more muscular,this is from being dehydrated(outside the muscle).The first two meals i eat have 90-125 grams of carbs in them.Now if the numbers you mentioned above where true,then my body would not be able to absorb them.But this isnt the case.It doesnt take long before i start seeing veins come out,and my muscles filling up.Plus,after my first meal,I usually go back to bed,so im not using up any energy.Then when it comes time for the second meal(3 hours later)all is absorbed just like the first one.I cannot explain what is going on,or what went on during the night..but all i know is my body was able to absorb 200grams of carbs pretty easily upon awakeing.

And from what i have read,you burn more calories sleeping than you would doing absolutely nothing and just thinking during the day.Reparing and dreaming use up alot of energy,although im not sure what type of "fuel" is being used.I guess the more you approach towards the morning,the more your liver stores go down and the more you use fat as your main source of fuel.And to respond to where you said the brain absolutely needs carbs is somewhat true,depending on the situation.When your body is being fed more than 50grams of carbs in a day,then yes,your brain will have priority over them.But as you know,when people are on a Keto diet,then the brain doesnt rely on carbs..it uses ketones as its main supply.

[Jazzy]

Yup,even when bulking.I get all my carbs in the beginning of the day.I think DC also supports this notion of cutting carbs off in the evening.To me it makes sense eating carbs when you wake up,after 8 hours of fasting.Your body absorbs them like a sponge.Then at night,eat the required amount of fat and proteins.Of course veggies can be eaten at this time seeing they are very slow to digest.But once ive reached my 400g of carbs a day,thats it for me.

+1 ^^

and for me it's the same, when I wake up and see me in front of a mirror, I'm depleted and my muscles are flats, but after eating my fruits and my oatmeal, my veins come out too!^^