Here goes....

[#8]

I must say that I am pretty sick and tired of hearing about how pro bodybuilders are the "hardest working" people and their unbelievable gains in size are attributable to their "amazing work ethic".

I am not disputing their hard work, dedication, or motivation to win.......but give me a ****ING BREAK. Why were the bodybuilders of the 70's and 80's so much smaller than the ones now? Has there been some magical breakthrough in nutrition that allows one to know what they need to eat to grow?

Im pretty sure the bodybuilders of the past era's new exactly what they were doing and achieved amazing frames (for their time) doing so.

Yes, bodybuilding at the professional level takes a certain amount of genetic gifting that most will never know. I happen to know an individual who played pro football in his early 20's but had to retire due to injuries. This man takes no steroids anymore and is an elite personal trainer who looks the part. He eats, sleeps, and breathes fitness and nutrition and knows exactly how to train and how to eat. He is nowhere near the size of any pro bodybuilder BECAUSE HE DOESNT USE ANY DRUGS TO COMPENSATE.

For once I would like one pro lifter to step forward and actually be honest with the amounts of shit he is using and at what dosage(s). I wish I could remember the names of some BB who have died on road to a show. It must have been the tremendous amount of dedication and strict diet that killed them.

[Ritch]

I hear what you`re saying, but prefer not to get involved, lol...

[buildinthaskinnys]

Insulin use was probably the biggest factor in the size increase in the last 15 years, way more even than growth hormone. What should be mentioned though, that the conditioning in the early ninetys was far better than today, even though they were on average smaller, they were never puffy like todays BB's, clear cut, defined and separated muscles with highly visable striations have seemed to gone the wayside in favor of an extra 20 pounds of shear mass.

[#8]

Seriously though. I get it that they eat sleep and breathe the sport or they wouldnt be where they are at, but its more than that. There are many natural bodybuilders who are just that, NATURAL, who are equally as dedicated with a FRACTION of the mass.

[BDH]

Now batting... number 16(twice as much as #8...lol)... NATE!!!!

You're up, big guy...

[BDH]

Insulin use was probably the biggest factor in the size increase in the last 15 years, way more even than growth hormone. You are bang on with that assessment...

[Ritch]

What I`ve noticed is that with every generation of bigger guys, we always talk about the previous one being more cut. When the guys in the 90`s were looking the way they were, people would talk about how much better the guys in the 80`s were, and so on. Pretty soon, we`ll have guys saying, "remember what a small waiste Rhul and Ronnie had?"

[#8]

You are bang on with that assessment...

so is it fair to say two people agree with me so far?

[Ritch]

so is it fair to say two people agree with me so far?

Although I have no proof of what I`m saying, yes I agree with what you`re saying. It`s the nature of the sport. More drugs and more of them. But also it must be smarter use of them as well.

[#8]

^^ smarter use or not, it seems like all 3 of you so far agree with what im saying, but wont fully say so.

[519Muscle]

I must say that I am pretty sick and tired of hearing about how pro bodybuilders are the "hardest working" people and their unbelievable gains in size are attributable to their "amazing work ethic".

I am not disputing their hard work, dedication, or motivation to win.......but give me a ****ING BREAK. Why were the bodybuilders of the 70's and 80's so much smaller than the ones now? Has there been some magical breakthrough in nutrition that allows one to know what they need to eat to grow?

Im pretty sure the bodybuilders of the past era's new exactly what they were doing and achieved amazing frames (for their time) doing so.

Yes, bodybuilding at the professional level takes a certain amount of genetic gifting that most will never know. I happen to know an individual who played pro football in his early 20's but had to retire due to injuries. This man takes no steroids anymore and is an elite personal trainer who looks the part. He eats, sleeps, and breathes fitness and nutrition and knows exactly how to train and how to eat. He is nowhere near the size of any pro bodybuilder BECAUSE HE DOESNT USE ANY DRUGS TO COMPENSATE.

For once I would like one pro lifter to step forward and actually be honest with the amounts of shit he is using and at what dosage(s). I wish I could remember the names of some BB who have died on road to a show. It must have been the tremendous amount of dedication and strict diet that killed them.

The reason why their so much bigger now is because back then they trained for 7 hours a day, and yes their has been many breakthroughs in nutrition their wasn't even internet back in the 70's they didn't know how to train or diet as much as they know now.

[#8]

^^ i dont see the advances in nutrition causing the discrepancies we are seeing in the sheer size of the guys competing now. If I am wrong, then I am wrong, but I really dont see that as the MAJOR factor in this equation.

The only major breakthrough that seems to have happened to allow the explosion of frames was already mentioned as insulin and or GH. This combination therapy or use of slin on its own was said to be a major if not the biggest contributor.

I didnt say it. They did.

[bigtavi8]

Ya we have come a long way since the arnold era in terms of supplements, nutrition, science, and of course gear and GH. I dont pretend to think that the top pros use 3 times what dosage i would deem safe and use more compounds depending on the season than we would know. I think the overall advancement of size in the sport does have a certain amount of it to do with the heavier more advanced cycles and the breakthroughs in GH and Slin use. Saying that i wouldnt have it any other way. If i was a pro i would do the super cycles and gh too. Its my career. Its how i eat and how i feed my family at the end of the day. Be as sliced as you want but if your not massy there are others at the olympia stage that are and will beat you.

[Odysseus]

For once I would like one pro lifter to step forward and actually be honest with the amounts of shit he is using and at what dosage(s).

Dorian Yates is pretty honest when it comes to this. During interviews, he doesn't deny using gear and he doesn't try to change the topic or give some bs answer. In fact, I think in this one interview I read online, he actually describes EXACTLY what he takes. Somewhere along the lines of Deca, Test, etc.

I think it's this one: http://www.universalnutrition.ie/posts/list/656.page

[natenator]

I've never denied drugs play an important role in bodybuilding. Show me where I've said it and I'll eat boxer shorts.

You could take everything you take and do your regular gym routine/lifestyle and you will NOT be ANYWHERE as close to their physique level. I'd even wager a significant amount of money on this.

This is their LIFE. They eat, sleep, train. This is how it goes. Sure they have some downtime no doubt but not as much as you or I. We miss meals... big deal. We miss workouts... big deal. They miss workout or meals that IS a big deal.

Drugs are no substitute for hard work (in the gym and at the table). Drugs + hard work and you get a GOOD bodybuilder. Drugs + hard work + genetics and you get an elite bodybuilder.

[O-Train]

At the end of the day it's all about money. All the bs training videos with the music and the yelling. Everything is set up so that a handful of people can make a ton of money off of bullshit supplements being sold to people who don't know how to lift weights. I don't blame the pros for talking the way they do...they wouldn't survive in the industry if they didn't.

...and Dorian Yates kicks ass.

[JifeLacket]

Slin is a big one fo sho, one becomes super insulin sensitive while on gear which is why it is so synergistic. It is like.. blowing up balloons (your muscles) and then packing concrete around them (AAS use solidifies the expansion, the cells want to thicken up their walls because of the expansion). If using slin only, you can only retain so much of what was packed into the muscle.

[Big D]

I think they're bigger also because of the science behind the dieting, they didnt have that type of knowledge back then.