Thoughts?

[Sean]

Well, I've been reading alot lately on the old timers. Anyways, it seems there are quite a few people even now that don't use Test. From my understanding Test was considered a dirty drug back in Arnys days.. Some guys use it as a base 250mg and stack it with Deca 500mg Dbol 50mg/day ect.. Barely any or no Test at all. One guy who is very knowledgable and is very respected and has the body to prove it (as well he trains and helps people who compete). He said a long time ago "why do people use Test to get ripped"? One should use things like Winstrol, Tren ect.. (no test).. I also know people who don't use it as well, I've done it myself for dieting down. The general talk with some of todays competitors is using Test as a base Only, while using compounds such as Deca, Dbol, Tren ect at higher dosages then Test.. What's your thoughts? Experience only please..

[Mr Ontario]

Test En cut's me up! 500mg a week

[Canadian Bodybuilding]

I couldn't imagine doing a no test cycle. Especially with deca or tren. I would hate my no sexual desire and dead dick life :(

[MuSuLPhReAk]

I tried a low test 250mg cycle. Was ok. I fould I got much better results and felt better overall when my test was 500mg+.

[IronRobi]

Really, no steroid "burns fat". In reality what happens is you don't get any fat gain which will cause a loss of fat. With Test, you get a higher level of adrenoreceptors in the fat cells which causes "fat loss". Look at obese men. They have an easier time getting fatter. Being overweight causes a decrease in your testosterone level. Having low Test levels will cause you to gain fat.

The reason people don't include test in cutting cycles is to avoid the Test "bloat". Ultimately, they are lowering their Test levels just like an obese man which will really make it easier for them to gain fat instead of losing it. This is why Test should be used in cutting cycles as well. If bloat is a concern, use prop to keep it to a minimum.

Running other compounds at higher levels won't erase the benefits of including Test in the cycle. You also need to think that all compounds are not even in potency/dosage amount. 250mg/wk of Test can be considered a pretty "average" dosage. For Deca, an "average" dosage would be around 400mg/wk. If you were to only run 200mg/wk of deca it would be pretty weak for that compound.

[St]

I did many shows and only one show i did test(sten) won my class.Also did one show on d-bol looked great and when i dropped the d-bol within two weeks i was ripped from all the water loss then hit the winny and halo,looked amazing.The problem with any test is Aromatization drugs is its hard the gauge your fat loss,so if you cut it and you might try to play catch-up game once you see that there is a little fat left on the abs.From all the shows i judged and talked with the people who win(tops three) most do Tren,winny,Eq,anavar,primo,Halo,and nolva's or proviron,but most of them drop the test the last month or weeks before the show,just to shapen up to shift the androgen ratio to estrogen.

[Sean]

This is the thread I read that got me thinking about all this again. If you research it you'll see a whole new/old way of thinking. Anyways, anyone here with experience??

http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14831&highlight=anabolic

[Sean]

Thanks Smart Tony, MP just what I was looking for..

[SiLvErBaK]

Well, I've been reading alot lately on the old timers. Anyways, it seems there are quite a few people even now that don't use Test. From my understanding Test was considered a dirty drug back in Arnys days.. Some guys use it as a base 250mg and stack it with Deca 500mg Dbol 50mg/day ect.. Barely any or no Test at all. One guy who is very knowledgable and is very respected and has the body to prove it (as well he trains and helps people who compete). He said a long time ago "why do people use Test to get ripped"? One should use things like Winstrol, Tren ect.. (no test).. I also know people who don't use it as well, I've done it myself for dieting down. The general talk with some of todays competitors is using Test as a base Only, while using compounds such as Deca, Dbol, Tren ect at higher dosages then Test.. What's your thoughts? Experience only please..

test back in arnies days was dirty. a crude form ,"methyltest" seen today in products like M1T, had recetly been developed but had many problem with it. how can u go wrong with some of the prop, enanthate that's out there today. There are great teat compunds with huge benfits over many other steroids. the first time i used test it was karachi sustanon. kept me hard, lean, and strong. I remember doing 475lb deads at 200lbs at 21, practically could see myself grow, felt fuking great, one of bestmy memories anyway

[Bowlcut]

I tried a low test 250mg cycle. Was ok. I fould I got much better results and felt better overall when my test was 500mg+.

Did you run anything else with that?

I honestly think test on its own has to be at least 500mg, but 400mg of test with 400mg of EQ would probably be a decent 2nd cycle.

[MuSuLPhReAk]

Did you run anything else with that?

I honestly think test on its own has to be at least 500mg, but 400mg of test with 400mg of EQ would probably be a decent 2nd cycle.

Tren/eq.

[outshine]

steroids don't cut fat, diet and cardio do

With that said, you could get lean off dbol alone as long as you ate and trained properly. The only reason you wouldn't use a compound with heavy aromitization ,like test or dbol, when trying to get ripped would be water retention. Water retention on test is not even that bad if you watch your diet, sodium intake, and use A.Is or SERMS . The main reason you include test in even a cutting cycle is comfort. I admit that I do look better on non-armoatizing steroids liek tren, winstrol but what is the point of looking good naked if you can't get it up? Since most people aren't entering body building competitions which require like ridiciolously low water and body fat levels (which come at the expense of libido), there is no point in cutting out the test.

Test is the basis of all my cycles.250/week of test provides me with some comfort, 500 provides me with that much more. 500mg/ week of any ester provides an acceptable level of cost/benefit. If water retention is a huge concern run a shorter ester but always include test.

[Kronis]

This is the thread I read that got me thinking about all this again. If you research it you'll see a whole new/old way of thinking. Anyways, anyone here with experience??

http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14831&highlight=anabolic

I just read that whole thread. It really makes you look at cycling in a different way.

Great read, thanks.

[grindtight]

This is the thread I read that got me thinking about all this again. If you research it you'll see a whole new/old way of thinking. Anyways, anyone here with experience??

http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14831&highlight=anabolic

wow what a long but interesting and educational thread .gota fix a few things about my own cycles now.

[Sean]

I've been posting about this subject since I first came to these boards. Alls I ever got was "You have to run test with everything, otherwise you'll be riddled with sides". No you won't!! I know people who don't use Test, one who uses only Deca and makes great gains. I do understand that you (most) won't get it up and I (personally) seem to crash harder (longer PCT) when I'm not using Test. So I can see why Test is good in a cycle.. Who here actually runs Deca, Tren ect.. at higher dosages then Test? Example:

Test E 250mg/week
Tren 500mg/week
Deca 500mg/week

Is there actually any benefit to this? I mean you'll probably shut down because the Test isn't higher then the rest. Tren is a strong Androgen and can shut people down quick. But by adding a little Test to it, do you really think it would be of any real benefit? I think not. I guess what I'm trying to say, is if you don't mind going limp (You can use things to help in this department) then there is really no reason to avoid it like the plague?

By the way to all you newbies, this is an Educational thread so make sure you use your Test in a cycle.. I'm simply trying to figure something out...

[Musclehead]

Testosterone is why males are leaner naturally compared to females.

[Sean]

A Sergio Oliva interview - talks about IFBB,drug use...
In Conversation with Sergio Oliva
By Brian D. Johnston

BDJ: Could you relay your own experience with drug use?


SO: This is an area of great interest for people. I don't care who wants to take steroids, because that's a personal choice... that's his life. Now, today, everybody has access to them. I even saw in one of the big magazines that Arnold denies having used them, but Arnold was one of the first to bring steroids over to America. And everybody in the old days used them: Zane, Columbu, myself, Arnold, Larry Scott, Harold Poole, Dave Draper, and even Steve Reeves. There's no way to deny it. It wasn't much, nothing like today. But the development of drugs is much different. I used decca and dianabol, and that was something really big at the time; and decca was not considered that bad. It was even prescribed by doctors to help make your bones strong. Today you have guys weighing 200 pounds, and six months later they weigh 250-300 pounds! So you know these guys are taking something unbelievable. When they say they haven't taken any thing, you know that it's phony.

[IronRobi]

[QUOTE=Sean;24296]Who here actually runs Deca, Tren ect.. at higher dosages then Test? Example:

Test E 250mg/week
Tren 500mg/week
Deca 500mg/week
QUOTE]


Most of us have. As I said before 500mg/week of test does not equal 500mg/week of deca, or 500mg/week of tren, or 500mg/week of eq... each compound is effective at different dosages. Just because you would run 500mg of test does not mean you need to run the same for everything else.

I know I have personally run 250mg/week of Test E and 75mg ED of Tren A which works out to 525mg/week of Tren. Pretty basic cycle and just because my tren was at 525 doesn't mean I had to match that with test because it is a completely different compound!

[gustavo77]

IMHO as long a person runs a replacement dose of test 100-150mg/wk, there will be no prbs with libido running other anabolics. That said i do believe emphatically that you have to have at least a replacement dose in there to function normally..deca, rol, tren, var etc...all AAS shut down natural test production and they are chemical similar to test but NOT the same so they will not act exactly the same as test nor provide the benefits of test in the body...ie libido, energy, mood balance etc...

I really do not understand this fascination with proving that you do not need to run test..we are MEN FOR CHRIST'S SAKE!! Why the f**k would you NOT want to run it. Test is what makes up who we are gender wise, why f**k with that and try to eliminate it??..Test makes you horny, full of energy, vitality, drive and it is the cheapest AAS to run. IMHO anyone who does not run it in their cycles (with the exception of the last few week of pre-comp) is CRAZY!!

[Kronis]

The thread that was posted @ promuscle talked a lot about collagen synthesis. A lot of guys said that a test only cycle was a bad idea and that you should always run deca, eq, primo, tren, and maybe anavar (i forget) with test to keep your tendons in good shape.

What are people opinions on that for a first cycle. I know most people say to stick to one compound for the first run, that compound being test, but would 250test 3-400deca be a better cycle than 500 test for a first run?

[Sean]

I just don't buy into the parrot mentality. I think there is alot of Bullshit on alot of these boards, and you have to sift through it and try it for yourself to actually figure it out. The reason I asked is because some people DON'T use TEST and get great results. Some bloat, some Do not, what I'm trying to figure out is simply a different way of thinking of why some people don't use Test. Pro's & Con's ect.. without the "OH MY GOD, HE'S NOT USING TEST, I BETTER PM A MOD" lol.. Anyways, still up to hearing experiences..

[Sean]

What are people opinions on that for a first cycle. I know most people say to stick to one compound for the first run, that compound being test, but would 250test 3-400deca be a better cycle than 500 test for a first run?

Depends on which board you ask it at. Some boards slam into your head to keep the Test higher then Deca, EQ, Tren ect, while some say that would be fine..

[Kronis]

I just don't buy into the parrot mentality. I think there is alot of Bullshit on alot of these boards, and you have to sift through it and try it for yourself to actually figure it out. The reason I asked is because some people DON'T use TEST and get great results. Some bloat, some Do not, what I'm trying to figure out is simply a different way of thinking of why some people don't use Test. Pro's & Con's ect.. without the "OH MY GOD, HE'S NOT USING TEST, I BETTER PM A MOD" lol.. Anyways, still up to hearing experiences..

It's always good to have an open discussion. I browse the bb.com roid section sometimes and they chastise guys who aren't using a dozen AI's during their whole cycle; followed by a 4 compound pct for a simple test only cycle.

[St]

I just don't buy into the parrot mentality. I think there is alot of Bullshit on alot of these boards, and you have to sift through it and try it for yourself to actually figure it out. The reason I asked is because some people DON'T use TEST and get great results. Some bloat, some Do not, what I'm trying to figure out is simply a different way of thinking of why some people don't use Test. Pro's & Con's ect.. without the "OH MY GOD, HE'S NOT USING TEST, I BETTER PM A MOD" lol.. Anyways, still up to hearing experiences..


I've talked with a few guys that did only test and they were fine on a anti-estrogen.If i had the pick between Deca or test i would do test.With deca you get progesterone,seen some bad gyno from it on stage,and were not ripped.All you can do is try both ways and see how you look.

[grindtight]

IMHO as long a person runs a replacement dose of test 100-150mg/wk, there will be no prbs with libido running other anabolics. That said i do believe emphatically that you have to have at least a replacement dose in there to function normally..deca, rol, tren, var etc...all AAS shut down natural test production and they are chemical similar to test but NOT the same so they will not act exactly the same as test nor provide the benefits of test in the body...ie libido, energy, mood balance etc...

I really do not understand this fascination with proving that you do not need to run test..we are MEN FOR CHRIST'S SAKE!! Why the f**k would you NOT want to run it. Test is what makes up who we are gender wise, why f**k with that and try to eliminate it??..Test makes you horny, full of energy, vitality, drive and it is the cheapest AAS to run. IMHO anyone who does not run it in their cycles (with the exception of the last few week of pre-comp) is CRAZY!!

bingoooooooooooo

[Sean]

^^^^ :rofl

[td1111]

gustavo77 has got it right. I prefer non-aromatizing compounds(due to gyno and bloat) along with a 150-200mg/wk replacement dose of test. Currently I'm making my best gains ever on Primo and Eq, with a little test. Feeling good and getting frequent boners from the test.

[outshine]

for your first cycle i'd keep it simple and just stick to test, if your popping your anabolic cherry you will grow crazy on pretty much anything so why not keep it simple?.

[IronRobi]

The thread that was posted @ promuscle talked a lot about collagen synthesis. A lot of guys said that a test only cycle was a bad idea and that you should always run deca, eq, primo, tren, and maybe anavar (i forget) with test to keep your tendons in good shape.

What are people opinions on that for a first cycle. I know most people say to stick to one compound for the first run, that compound being test, but would 250test 3-400deca be a better cycle than 500 test for a first run?


The reason test should be run alone for the first cycle is because test should be used as a base for all your cycles. Even if it's as gustavo77 has said and just a replacement dose to keep your body in check while the other compounds shut your natural levels down. Running test alone gives you a chance to see how your body reacts. If you were to start with test and deca and you suddenly get some really bad sides, which of the 2 is causing it? It becomes guess-work at that time, and when it comes to your health and safety guess-work isn't good enough.

[bigdaddydrew123]

IMHO as long a person runs a replacement dose of test 100-150mg/wk, there will be no prbs with libido running other anabolics. That said i do believe emphatically that you have to have at least a replacement dose in there to function normally..deca, rol, tren, var etc...all AAS shut down natural test production and they are chemical similar to test but NOT the same so they will not act exactly the same as test nor provide the benefits of test in the body...ie libido, energy, mood balance etc...

I really do not understand this fascination with proving that you do not need to run test..we are MEN FOR CHRIST'S SAKE!! Why the f**k would you NOT want to run it. Test is what makes up who we are gender wise, why f**k with that and try to eliminate it??..Test makes you horny, full of energy, vitality, drive and it is the cheapest AAS to run. IMHO anyone who does not run it in their cycles (with the exception of the last few week of pre-comp) is CRAZY!!your friggin right , even the last few weeks of no test b4 comp is hell. even by adding test back after comp it takes a long time to get feeling normal again. no way id cycle w/o test except for comp.

[gustavo77]

I just don't buy into the parrot mentality. I think there is alot of Bullshit on alot of these boards, and you have to sift through it and try it for yourself to actually figure it out. The reason I asked is because some people DON'T use TEST and get great results. Some bloat, some Do not, what I'm trying to figure out is simply a different way of thinking of why some people don't use Test. Pro's & Con's ect.. without the "OH MY GOD, HE'S NOT USING TEST, I BETTER PM A MOD" lol.. Anyways, still up to hearing experiences..

In my case, it has nothing to do with being a parrot bro...i have ran deca alone, i have ran d-bol alone and i have also ran M1T alone so i know what it feels like to have almost no test flowing in my body...never again. There is science and sound reasoning behind including test in a cycle and i also have my own experience to back it up my opinion. Sure you can get good gains from deca only, tren only etc, but how will you FEEL during the time you are on?? i know i felt like crap..lethargy, loss of libido and finally depression...

As far as always keeping the test higher than the anabolic, i am not one who subscribes to that that type of thinking. I believe that as long as you have a min of 125-150mg of test per week, you should be fine provided other hormones are within normal range (estrogen, prolactin etc).

[gustavo77]

The reason test should be run alone for the first cycle is because test should be used as a base for all your cycles. Even if it's as gustavo77 has said and just a replacement dose to keep your body in check while the other compounds shut your natural levels down. Running test alone gives you a chance to see how your body reacts. If you were to start with test and deca and you suddenly get some really bad sides, which of the 2 is causing it? It becomes guess-work at that time, and when it comes to your health and safety guess-work isn't good enough.

Nice post bro! Good advice for a novice.

[Sean]

In my case, it has nothing to do with being a parrot bro...i have ran deca alone, i have ran d-bol alone and i have also ran M1T alone so i know what it feels like to have almost no test flowing in my body...never again. There is science and sound reasoning behind including test in a cycle and i also have my own experience to back it up my opinion. Sure you can get good gains from deca only, tren only etc, but how will you FEEL during the time you are on?? i know i felt like crap..lethargy, loss of libido and finally depression...

As far as always keeping the test higher than the anabolic, i am not one who subscribes to that that type of thinking. I believe that as long as you have a min of 125-150mg of test per week, you should be fine provided other hormones are within normal range (estrogen, prolactin etc).

lol, I think I might know a little bit about Test. If I could only find out if I can drink winny? Anyways, I'm NOT advocating NO TEST CYCLES!!! I want to hear why some people swear by them. What do they think, Pro's Cons ect... I don't think I can make that any CLEARER!! I don't want to hear You're crazy if you don't take Test ect.. That's not what this thread is about!! It's about learning.. Like it or not there are people out there that do NO TEST CYCLES!! Shit, back in the old CJM days there was a Guy who (who was a Mod of CJM or Elite can't remember) and never ran Test. I don't see these guys throwing a rope around the bathroom rail every night wanting to commit suicide. It's funny I never felt like shit, limbido can be an issue but I wasn't using a Dopamine agonists. Dos/Cab can help with the limbido issues as well. If you look around, how many people shut down because there isn't enough Test to Tren/Deca ect ratio.. ALOT! I don't believe in that theory, Test should be higher then the Tren/Deca ect.. Anyways I'M NOT ADVOCATING NO TEST CYCLES!!!! However I highly doubt this thread will bring the NO TEST members out..

[bigdaddydrew123]

maybe their are none left.

[Mr Ontario]

Your such a Boner :) lol


gustavo77 has got it right. I prefer non-aromatizing compounds(due to gyno and bloat) along with a 150-200mg/wk replacement dose of test. Currently I'm making my best gains ever on Primo and Eq, with a little test. Feeling good and getting frequent boners from the test.

[tripleA]

I'm not a high dose guy anymore. 2 years ago I ran 250 mg of cyp/week. Last year ran the same thing with HGH 2iu 5on/2 off and looked freakin awesome. lol.
Guess I'm kinda more into HRT doses, well maybe a bit more than that.

[Mr Ontario]

Just admit it....your a juice pig like the rest of us and addicted! How do you think you got a chest like that. Spot pec injections :)


I'm not a high dose guy anymore. 2 years ago I ran 250 mg of cyp/week. Last year ran the same thing with HGH 2iu 5on/2 off and looked freakin awesome. lol.
Guess I'm kinda more into HRT doses, well maybe a bit more than that.

[St]

lol, I think I might know a little bit about Test. If I could only find out if I can drink winny? Anyways, I'm NOT advocating NO TEST CYCLES!!! I want to hear why some people swear by them. What do they think, Pro's Cons ect... I don't think I can make that any CLEARER!! I don't want to hear You're crazy if you don't take Test ect.. That's not what this thread is about!! It's about learning.. Like it or not there are people out there that do NO TEST CYCLES!! Shit, back in the old CJM days there was a Guy who (who was a Mod of CJM or Elite can't remember) and never ran Test. I don't see these guys throwing a rope around the bathroom rail every night wanting to commit suicide. It's funny I never felt like shit, limbido can be an issue but I wasn't using a Dopamine agonists. Dos/Cab can help with the limbido issues as well. If you look around, how many people shut down because there isn't enough Test to Tren/Deca ect ratio.. ALOT! I don't believe in that theory, Test should be higher then the Tren/Deca ect.. Anyways I'M NOT ADVOCATING NO TEST CYCLES!!!! However I highly doubt this thread will bring the NO TEST members out..

All my cycle are now test-free.But if you want major size or want to look like a pro,then test is best as test is the cheapest,poor man' drug.i'm rich so i go with Drinking winny for the longest time,now it Var,eq,tren,Primo,oral-turn,Did some Furazabol amazing stuff but its not made anymore.Yes you can drink winny.

[mcgee]

Thanks tony that saves me from starting a new thread about whether or not you can drink winny :)

[St]

Thanks tony that saves me from starting a new thread about whether or not you can drink winny :)

What you can drink winny.:laugh
Were did i see this oh on Musclenexus.:)

[tripleA]

Drinking winnie gives me the runs.

[tripleA]

Just admit it....your a juice pig like the rest of us and addicted! How do you think you got a chest like that. Spot pec injections :)

Actually my chest was sculpted by god as a gift to women.

[Turtle]

i think test in too high amounts run for too long will work against you in fat loss, estrogen will get too high. But that doesn't take away from the fact that it probably the best muscle builder around. and adding a bit of arim of nolva should take care of any estrogen issues.

[Mr Ontario]

I like 500 to 750mg per week...back and forth!

[Mr Ontario]

Never drank winny before myself! especially when it injects nicely in the bis....


Drinking winnie gives me the runs.

[mcgee]

What you can drink winny.:laugh
Were did i see this oh on Musclenexus.:)

Ya bolex seems to have one of those threads every week :puff

[gustavo77]

lol, I think I might know a little bit about Test. If I could only find out if I can drink winny? Anyways, I'm NOT advocating NO TEST CYCLES!!! I want to hear why some people swear by them. What do they think, Pro's Cons ect... I don't think I can make that any CLEARER!! I don't want to hear You're crazy if you don't take Test ect.. That's not what this thread is about!! It's about learning.. Like it or not there are people out there that do NO TEST CYCLES!! Shit, back in the old CJM days there was a Guy who (who was a Mod of CJM or Elite can't remember) and never ran Test. I don't see these guys throwing a rope around the bathroom rail every night wanting to commit suicide. It's funny I never felt like shit, limbido can be an issue but I wasn't using a Dopamine agonists. Dos/Cab can help with the limbido issues as well. If you look around, how many people shut down because there isn't enough Test to Tren/Deca ect ratio.. ALOT! I don't believe in that theory, Test should be higher then the Tren/Deca ect.. Anyways I'M NOT ADVOCATING NO TEST CYCLES!!!! However I highly doubt this thread will bring the NO TEST members out..

I know you know a lot about test bro, so get so fired up..you know i love you...:flagC:flagC..lmao! As far as having a discussion on why i feel test is necessary, i feel i have given some of MY reasons on why i think it is essential but hey that is just my experience and parts of my own research.

If someone wants to run a no test cycle, that;s fine but they should be aware of the possible sides and no i am not saying anything about suicide..i said depression, and a lot of guys get mild to moderate depression while recovering on pct..so for ME it is similar with no test cycles, mabe not right away but weeks to months later.. I also know guys who run deca and or d-bol only cycles and they say they are fine so...it depends on the person buti have already found out that my body needs test to feel normal..

[td1111]

My first cycle was Primo, Var, and EQ, and I felt fine, possibly because those compounds suppressed me very little. I'm on my third cycle which I kick-started with D-Bol before Primo and EQ and I just recently read about replacement doses of test. I was feeling a bit lethargic and the test helped that and boosted libido a lot.

I think the NO TEST guys might not be suppressed enough for them to feel "off".

P.S. lol at Mr. Ontario and lol @ this thread :)

[fathead]

i dont beleive in the "test is best" or test is mandatory protocols.

The best cycle I ever ran was a big dose of equ with anavar. I never felt shut down and barely noticed coming off. slow solid maintanable gains. I ran a pct but wasnt sure i needed one!

I would say there are certain things you may not want to run without test though... like tren. that could be problematic.

Last year I ran the same cycle as above but with 300mg test/wk. I was bigger and fuller but didnt look as good in my opinion, and definitley felt more of a need for a pct afterwards.

[IronRobi]

Wait wait wait... everybody hold on!! You can really drink Winny??? hahaha :p

[Sean]

Wait wait wait... everybody hold on!! You can really drink Winny??? hahaha


I see you're still not on D-bol. Thanks guys for the honest opinions, I've talked to some other people as well. Alot of different opinions depending on the sport ect...

[Roid Pimp]

Everyone has there own opinions and every drug reacts different with other ppl. I personal don’t run anything other than Cyp and D-bol. And i have gained a lean 27lbs in 12 weeks and, if its like usual, i will keep 18-20 lbs. I’m running 1200mg of cyp/week and 4 d-bol about an hour before i work out for strength gains. My body is not susceptible to gyno so i don’t have to worry about taking an anti. I think people over complicate this stuff and add to much trying to gain to much. But like i said, everyone is different right.

[Sean]

Everyone has there own opinions and every drug reacts different with other ppl. I personal don’t run anything other than Cyp and D-bol. And i have gained a lean 27lbs in 12 weeks and, if its like usual, i will keep 18-20 lbs. I’m running 1200mg of cyp/week and 4 d-bol about an hour before i work out for strength gains. My body is not susceptible to gyno so i don’t have to worry about taking an anti. I think people over complicate this stuff and add to much trying to gain to much. But like i said, everyone is different right.

I agree. Try helping people in different sports where weight class means everything. I've talked to PLers who eat handfulls of d-bol before a competition or Halo ect.. I know Tren (only) users who use it for there fighting careers. Alot of these people have run test and didn't like it reguardless of anti E. I can go on and on, it's not a simple take Test and run with it answer. Even in bodybuilding. The trick I found is researching the shit out of everything, what does this and what does that, sides, gains ect (filter through the crap)... Only then will you find a reasonable answer.. Also, you're own experiences help find a good base..