Canadian laws regarding Membership to a Union???

[Knuckles28]

Anyone here belong to a union, or in the executive with one? Or is anyone here a employer that deals with a union?
I have a question regarding our laws here in Canada regarding belonging to a union, I looked on the net quickly a found only info for the States. Basically i'm wondering if it is possible to opt out of belonging to the Union while still being employed by the same employer. Is this possible? If i were an American i could be a "religous objector" not sure if thats available here to me though lol.
I'm sick of my Union collecting monthly due's for doing jack squat.. i have reasons for saying this, not just your typical disgruntled member. I have taken up a role in having this Union tossed from our shop and replaced by another, i just got off the phone with our union pres and told him to pound sand, not in those words though.. Thinks im trying to play him and the union as the bad guys, well protect my rights then a**hole..

[BAM]

If the position is one which is contained in the UNION's contract with the employer, then you have to be part of the UNION to hold that job.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ttKJwvFIgw

[Bowlcut]

I believe the laws are provincial jurisdiction so try searching your province.

This is Alberta's http://www.alrb.gov.ab.ca/

[ironwill]

If the position is one which is contained in the UNION's contract with the employer, then you have to be part of the UNION to hold that job.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ttKJwvFIgw

Correct...Ive worked in and mange unions my whole career.....You have to join the union if working for a union company, unless in management....of course...
If working construction and you are on-site working, even if you arent part of the union, you must get a permit through them to be there...pay your dues, as they say....

[Bowlcut]

Unions are just gangs-legitimate because of all the money they kick into political parties.

[Knuckles28]

Thanks for the info, i check our gov's (NS) website and i can find very little there except for your union contract basically over rules labor standards to a degree.

I'm pissed with my union another shop toss them out and brought in CAW, we are with the biggest crooks of em all Teamsters. They told me this when i told them i may look into why Toronto threw out Teamsters " I will remind you for membership it is every members duty not to bring reproach upon the union."

Does this mean they can throw me out of the Union or just a member in bad standing?? Can a Union actually fire me from my job? as it stands for employment we must join the Union. I'm just wondering what kind of recourse i could expect :)

[ironwill]

The union cannot fire you, but you better watch your ps and qs with management, because they (union) will throw you under the bus if they have a hate on for ya....Believe you me, the caw is the worst union by far in canada.....Look what they did to the auto industry...Ive been written about in the caw rag as a union buster....lol....a few times now.....Screw them spineless bastards...They couldnt touch me and my workings as a manager implementing culture change because i cover my ass and know my stuff in regards to contracts etc...So they wrote about me in their newsletters....lmao....I am no union buster, but i dont take shit from lazy pricks either...!!!
yeah baby....

[ironwill]

BTW, keep a journal of anything that happens on the job, any remarks made to you by them or harrassment etc...Document everything, im serious...Thats what will make you, or break you, and stay within the confines of your contract to the letter bro!!!

[budthespud]

I heard a practice whereby one could opt to donate their monthly union dues to a charitable organization in protest of the Union's effort. Not quite sure of the truth to this , but you could look into it.

[Knuckles28]

BTW, keep a journal of anything that happens on the job, any remarks made to you by them or harrassment etc...Document everything, im serious...Thats what will make you, or break you, and stay within the confines of your contract to the letter bro!!!

I have been keeping notes, we've been talking through email so ive got all them saved too. I think after yesterday our business agent may not be very happy with me lol. thanks for the info IW
I always work to the letter of the law (our contract). they know this as does my employer. i think what really pisses the union off is i know the contract better than them. i just dont have the money for lawyers like they do.
oh well i'm hoping ill be out of there in the next year, i'm gona raise hell with the union before i go, my employer (manager) is a good bro of mine so no worries about burning any bridges there. He told me so over beers at Hockey ;)

[Sean]

Local 99 CAW about 15 years ago. Best Union I've ever worked for. I worked for a few other unions and one sucked so bloody bad, I quit after 8 years. No one could believe the BS, they wouldn't protect anyones rights. They had everyone so scared of losing there jobs that no one would stand up including our so called Union Pres. As soon as they made shop steward/Pres they where promoted to lead hand, WTF!! So getting anything done Union wise was impossible. Talk about a conflict of Interests. Our Dues where unbelievible! The kicker is when our Pres promoted a two teir system, we kept our wage and new guys started at minimum wage. Alot of people lost there jobs or quit.

[rob66679]

Anyone here belong to a union, or in the executive with one? Or is anyone here a employer that deals with a union?
I have a question regarding our laws here in Canada regarding belonging to a union, I looked on the net quickly a found only info for the States. Basically i'm wondering if it is possible to opt out of belonging to the Union while still being employed by the same employer. Is this possible? If i were an American i could be a "religous objector" not sure if thats available here to me though lol.
I'm sick of my Union collecting monthly due's for doing jack squat.. i have reasons for saying this, not just your typical disgruntled member. I have taken up a role in having this Union tossed from our shop and replaced by another, i just got off the phone with our union pres and told him to pound sand, not in those words though.. Thinks im trying to play him and the union as the bad guys, well protect my rights then a**hole..

Its pretty much all been said, IW gave some really good perspective from a Management POV too.
It all comes down to what your beef is really. If theres enough guys on board with you, you could possibly jump ship IMHO and find another..... You'd likely need a legal opinion on that though.
You really need to be careful what you say and around who its said...... My Union has provisions regarding speaking "negatively" about the Union and they can and will make your life hell.

Everything should be in your contract..... Theres usually some descretion for the Business Agent, but if you crossed your T's and dotted your I's you should be GTG....... So really it comes down to what rights are they not protecting, are those "rights" as defined in your contract, and why isn't your rep defending you?

[rob66679]

I have been keeping notes, we've been talking through email so ive got all them saved too. I think after yesterday our business agent may not be very happy with me lol. thanks for the info IW
I always work to the letter of the law (our contract). they know this as does my employer. i think what really pisses the union off is i know the contract better than them. i just dont have the money for lawyers like they do.
oh well i'm hoping ill be out of there in the next year, i'm gona raise hell with the union before i go, my employer (manager) is a good bro of mine so no worries about burning any bridges there. He told me so over beers at Hockey ;)

What did you do?
Your friends with your Employer/Manager, but your mad because the Union won't defend you????? Usually they defend you against Management or Employers..........

[Knuckles28]

What did you do?
Your friends with your Employer/Manager, but your mad because the Union won't defend you????? Usually they defend you against Management or Employers..........

Essentionally it's a senority issue.. ya i know sounds shitty and may sound like im wineing too, but Senority is decided through the union managment has no say. There was a clause in our contract that allowed me to retain senority while working part time, now that im FT again their screwing with my senority, change date of hire blah, blah, blah...
I'm assuming it's due to our 2 new stewards one's junior to me well er a maybe. My anger towards the union doesnt just stem from this one issue it's been 10 years in the making.
Well got to go work and pay some dues.

[BAM]

Do you ever go to the meetings?

Surprising how much that helps your cause.

[Knuckles28]

Do you ever go to the meetings?

Surprising how much that helps your cause.

I do go to our contract meetings, but as for general meetings they usuall are when im working. But ya i was thinking this too, i may go too the next one.

[rob66679]

Do you ever go to the meetings?

Surprising how much that helps your cause.

Meetings equals making friends and having "Union" people see you there, which means they'll see you as one of them.

Yep, in my union anyway theres a lot of "discretion" involved in almost all matters.
And discretion could mean how hard they will fight for someones rights, or it could mean dispatching someone else to a job ahead of you lol.
Its actually in our Constitution that the Manager can waive any rule, at any time, at his/her sole discretion. Now you tell me thats not opening the door for back room deals or politics lol.


It can go either way, but its a big game of politics...... You need friends on both sides. Just like Survivor.... The real world edition.

[gingerbreadman]

If the position is one which is contained in the UNION's contract with the employer, then you have to be part of the UNION to hold that job.



Ditto

[gingerbreadman]

The union cannot fire you, but you better watch your ps and qs with management, because they (union) will throw you under the bus if they have a hate on for ya....Believe you me, the caw is the worst union by far in canada.....Look what they did to the auto industry...Ive been written about in the caw rag as a union buster....lol....a few times now.....Screw them spineless bastards...They couldnt touch me and my workings as a manager implementing culture change because i cover my ass and know my stuff in regards to contracts etc...So they wrote about me in their newsletters....lmao....I am no union buster, but i dont take shit from lazy pricks either...!!!
yeah baby....


:a+ Yeah baby I'm management as well, same attitude, don;t hate them , but take no shit from them either. They will push and push and push to places they have no business in. Their greed seems never-ending

[gingerbreadman]

Basically my opinion is Unions served a purpose during the industrial revolution of the early 1900's when some employers were exploiting employees. Now I believe Unions have run their course. Not only that they've taken their authority too far. They're feeding greedy execs and possibly the mafia - lol. They slow doen the efficiency of the system and the overall economy with their B.S.

For example as a manager I have to fight tooth and nail to hire the "best candidate" for the job. They will fight tooth and nail to force me to hire the most senior candidate and usually this person is a lazy-ass shit that leans on the union to support them in their lazy-ass behaviours and the efficiency and morale overall just keeps going down more and more. Our government's efficiency could improve at least 40% or more without Unions not to mention the morale and motivation of the employees involved,

That's my 2 cent rant

[BAM]

I disagree with the above post.

In these times, a union is what you need.

[natenator]

I disagree with the above post.

In these times, a union is what you need.
And for what need is that?

[BAM]

Although no guarentee.. it's the only shot the blue collar working man has to keep a livable wage and job security. I'm pretty sure if we had no union where I work that they would have replaced us all already with contractors that pay their employees shit. Then I'd have to go work for one of these contractors and work for peanuts.. fuq that.

[rob66679]

Basically my opinion is Unions served a purpose during the industrial revolution of the early 1900's when some employers were exploiting employees. Now I believe Unions have run their course. Not only that they've taken their authority too far. They're feeding greedy execs and possibly the mafia - lol. They slow doen the efficiency of the system and the overall economy with their B.S.

For example as a manager I have to fight tooth and nail to hire the "best candidate" for the job. They will fight tooth and nail to force me to hire the most senior candidate and usually this person is a lazy-ass shit that leans on the union to support them in their lazy-ass behaviours and the efficiency and morale overall just keeps going down more and more. Our government's efficiency could improve at least 40% or more without Unions not to mention the morale and motivation of the employees involved,

That's my 2 cent rant

While I agree with some of what you said, when 99% of all the wealth is controlled by the top 1% of earners, I really don't think they've run their course.
If you think Union Execs are overpaid, you should look at what the CEO's of big companys are making.

Its a balance, Unions have done a lot of shitty things but there would be no middle class without them. And the middle class is getting smaller every year.

It was Union rules that started a 5 day work week, overtime pay ETC long before Governments regulated it.

[rob66679]

And for what need is that?

An honest dollar for an honest days work, under safe working conditions.

In a construction union thats what its all about. If you don't pull your weight you're gone, Iron Will can tell you all about that.

[natenator]

An honest dollar for an honest days work, under safe working conditions.

In a construction union thats what its all about. If you don't pull your weight you're gone, Iron Will can tell you all about that.
and auto workers unions? Public Service Unions/Gov't Unions?

are you trying to tell me these people honestly are worth what they make? People who often barely speak the language as is the case with Gov't or are under qualified for their position (again gov't workers) or have zilch education and simply are required to push a button (auto workers).

I;m not talking about skilled trade laborers.

[BAM]

The only way a lazy employee is kept around is managements fault not the union's. It is the unions job to protect its members even if they are a piece of toxic shit unfortunately. With that said, if the employer follows procedure, there is nothing that the union can do to stop a shit employee from being fired unless management sloppily leaves a loophole with regard to the firing process.

Secondly, most of the social safety net programs that exist now, health care, minimum wage.. all this was developed over time with the help of the unions. and some of these unions that you may feel have an overly decadent collective agreement have developed that agreement not overnight, but over 100 year period.

Let me state again that toxic lousy employees that are allowed to stick around are the fault of the employer and equate to poor management.

For the most part, it is people that do not belong to a union that cry the most about unions. Funny how that works eh?

BTW, This wage freeze the government is implementing? Guess what.. From what I heard tonight..It only affects NON-union employees


Basically my opinion is Unions served a purpose during the industrial revolution of the early 1900's when some employers were exploiting employees. Now I believe Unions have run their course. Not only that they've taken their authority too far. They're feeding greedy execs and possibly the mafia - lol. They slow doen the efficiency of the system and the overall economy with their B.S.

For example as a manager I have to fight tooth and nail to hire the "best candidate" for the job. They will fight tooth and nail to force me to hire the most senior candidate and usually this person is a lazy-ass shit that leans on the union to support them in their lazy-ass behaviours and the efficiency and morale overall just keeps going down more and more. Our government's efficiency could improve at least 40% or more without Unions not to mention the morale and motivation of the employees involved,

That's my 2 cent rant

[natenator]

For the most part, it is people that do not belong to a union that cry the most about unions. Funny how that works eh?

I could careless. I will always have a job and it will ALWAYS pay more then 90% of those people who work in Unions.

I'd just like to see a level playing field. Someone with a high school education does not deserve to be making the kind of money you see them make working in the auto industry or as a garbage man or any other job that see's them paid that much unless they've started their own business.

I knew plenty of anti union peeps until they became union members (teachers) and now do nothing but sing the praises. Funny how you become pro union when you get a job ****ing the dog all day.

[BAM]

I could careless. I will always have a job and it will ALWAYS pay more then 90% of those people who work in Unions.

I'd just like to see a level playing field. Someone with a high school education does not deserve to be making the kind of money you see them make working in the auto industry or as a garbage man or any other job that see's them paid that much unless they've started their own business.

I knew plenty of anti union peeps until they became union members (teachers) and now do nothing but sing the praises. Funny how you become pro union when you get a job ****ing the dog all day.

Dog****ers are not protected by the union. Fire them justly, according to propper agreed upon procedure and the union has no way to protect them. Trust me, the unions don't want lazy toxic arseholes either. It ruins morale keeping people like that around. Dog****ers remain on the job because of poor managers, not because of the Unions.

2ndly.. the job description dictates the paycheck.. not the persons education per se.

3rdly what qualifies you to judge what a fair wage is for someone who works in an occupation foreign to you?

[rob66679]

and auto workers unions? Public Service Unions/Gov't Unions?

are you trying to tell me these people honestly are worth what they make? People who often barely speak the language as is the case with Gov't or are under qualified for their position (again gov't workers) or have zilch education and simply are required to push a button (auto workers).

I;m not talking about skilled trade laborers.

You could be right, I can't speak about auto workers or the guys in the Post office. With us theres no seniority or protection from a lay-off.... I suppose with seniority dictating layoffs it would be a lot different.
And from my outsiders POV a auto worker with a $60 an hour package looks pretty sweet, sweeter than mine for sure.

As far as Teachers, these days you need a bachelor degree plus the education degree which is another 2 years. Not to mention that most teachers wind up subbing for at least a few years at around $100 a day in my province, and start off at around 35k a year.
Yeah, summers off are a great thing but it comes at a high price, starting with 6 years in University.

[gingerbreadman]

The only way a lazy employee is kept around is managements fault not the union's. It is the unions job to protect its members even if they are a piece of toxic shit unfortunately. With that said, if the employer follows procedure, there is nothing that the union can do to stop a shit employee from being fired unless management sloppily leaves a loophole with regard to the firing process.

I can agree with that, but its a real pain in the ass and alot of perfect procedures and paperwork to prevent any loopholes.

But I can picture at least one situation where a lazy-ass employee is moulded. They earn some seniority time and don;t get written up or disiplined/fired by management, then years down the road when their output and attitude stink they apply for another union job. The manager hires an external candidate because they are phenominal and the union employee doesn't even come close in the interview. Immediately thereafter the union employee screams grievance to the union and the employer is forced to take the lazy union employee who's attitude has not changed. Then the employees in the Dept. they get hired into create animosity because they have to work with this person and they all know they're not the best candidate and morale goes down and they all loose the motivation to work hard and do a good job. And the whole system slows down a little more in efficiency & morale.

[Bowlcut]

I have worked union and tax payers should be infuriated as to what their tax dollars pay for. There was one guy who had a drinking problem and instead of being fired was paid to go to rehab. Some guys got caught gambling and management couldn't do shit because if they have a gambling "addiction".

All they did was complain about how better paid the private contractors were but I never could understand why; they work 2 days of the week and try to look busy for 3.

[BAM]

Private contractors employees are not paid more than union employees and from my experiences, union employees do a superior job on the whole.

How hard do managers work?

[Bowlcut]

Private contractors employees are not paid more than union employees and from my experiences, union employees do a superior job on the whole.

How hard do managers work?

Ellis Don was paying $40/hr for electricians whereas government was about $28-30 without benefits.

Management worked 60 hours a week.

[natenator]

Ellis Don was paying $40/hr for electricians whereas government was about $28-30 without benefits.

Management worked 60 hours a week.
Administrative employees in gov't are treated like gold. Skilled trades people like electricians, plumbers, etc get ****ed.

Pretty ass backwards if you ask me.

[rob66679]

Ellis Don was paying $40/hr for electricians whereas government was about $28-30 without benefits.

Management worked 60 hours a week.

I don't believe that for a second.


Where I live a Union Journeyman Electrician makes around 28-30 an Hr, which is a couple bucks more than non-union. But then theres the pension, health and dental benifits that don't come off your paycheck, and other things that would whittle a non-union guys check a lot lower by the time its done.

Its not even ****ing close. Believe me, I know.


The only Electricians the Government would need is for maintenence, which would be in a Hospital ETC. These guys are generally a bit older, have a background in construction but don't like the cold winters outside or the hard labour......... so they take a pay cut and finish their careers in what would be considered an Industrial Electricians job description.
Industrial Electricians make much less, because they're not required to be licenced and thus not as valued.

Then again whats the value of a red seal in Quebec anyway lol....... We should not allow any of you to work outside your ****in province at all.
Protectionism at its very best...... You guys don't recognize any other provinces certification of Tradesmen ( The Red Seal ) so nobody can legally work there thats not a Quebecor.
But you expect to work everywhere else and we should respect yours? Lol..... Sounds like a Bowlcut law to me.

[Bowlcut]

I don't believe that for a second.


Where I live a Union Journeyman Electrician makes around 28-30 an Hr, which is a couple bucks more than non-union. But then theres the pension, health and dental benifits that don't come off your paycheck, and other things that would whittle a non-union guys check a lot lower by the time its done.

Its not even ****ing close. Believe me, I know.


The only Electricians the Government would need is for maintenence, which would be in a Hospital ETC. These guys are generally a bit older, have a background in construction but don't like the cold winters outside or the hard labour......... so they take a pay cut and finish their careers in what would be considered an Industrial Electricians job description.
Industrial Electricians make much less, because they're not required to be licenced and thus not as valued.

Then again whats the value of a red seal in Quebec anyway lol....... We should not allow any of you to work outside your ****in province at all.
Protectionism at its very best...... You guys don't recognize any other provinces certification of Tradesmen ( The Red Seal ) so nobody can legally work there thats not a Quebecor.
But you expect to work everywhere else and we should respect yours? Lol..... Sounds like a Bowlcut law to me.

THis was actually in the west at the time. And WTF is a Bowlcut law?

Ellis Don was paying more because labour was tight a the time. There are two guys who used to be on this board that worked the job I am talking about and they would tell you the same thing that electricians were making $40 plus free parking too.

[gingerbreadman]

Private contractors employees are not paid more than union employees and from my experiences, union employees do a superior job on the whole.

How hard do managers work?

Well, speaking for myself, this manager had accumulated 260hrs of unpaid (because we're salary) overtime in 2009 beyond the 1,950 hrs expected. My boss works about 360 days/year, and that is no lie, when he goes home his wife says "well what are you doing here?" LOL. We work in healthcare.

Recently the province paid consultants to review all mgt positions for salary appropriateness but before the report was released the NDP jumped in and said forget it, we;re in a recession. Here's 1% do with it what you please. Then when they ask us to prepare our annual budget to run the Health Authority they say prepare it on the assumption of 1% reduction from last year's revenue we gave you (we normally receive a 7% increase for inflation). Meanwhile one of our unions goes on strike (all my employees) so while I'm scrambling to do all their work while they strike, the government caves in and agrees to give them a 3.9% wage increase. And life goes on.......

[BAM]

I haven't seen a manager work hard in my life regardless of hours spent drinking coffee and going to meetings.

[gingerbreadman]

I haven't seen a manager work hard in my life regardless of hours spent drinking coffee and going to meetings.


Lol geez intelligent response

[BAM]

I haven't seen a manager work hard in my life regardless of their hours spent drinking coffee and going to meetings.


Lol geez intelligent response

The only time I ever see management sweat is when they are getting back half and hour late from lunch after their squash match.

[gingerbreadman]

The only time I ever see management sweat is when they are getting back half and hour late from lunch after their squash match.


Now I did laugh out loud at that, where the hell do you work? hahaha nevermind

[rob66679]

THis was actually in the west at the time. And WTF is a Bowlcut law?

Ellis Don was paying more because labour was tight a the time. There are two guys who used to be on this board that worked the job I am talking about and they would tell you the same thing that electricians were making $40 plus free parking too.

As a Union Electrician, who knows Union and non-Union Electricians from coast to coast, I don't need anybody else to tell me that you totally misrepresented things in order to shit on Unions.

The IBEW rate in Alberta is currently $48 an Hr.... And thats not including benifits. You can look that up for yourself, its local 424.

If you can find anywhere other than the Alberta oil patch, or some middle of nowhere mine operation, that pays non-union CONSTRUCTION Electricians $10an hour more I'd like to know where.
And try to be honest this time lol.

I totally believe that a Construction Electrician would get $40 plus parking..... I just don't buy that the Union guys were getting $28.

[ironwill]

I haven't seen a manager work hard in my life regardless of hours spent drinking coffee and going to meetings.

Come hang with me my friend...!!! If you can keep up.....:greet

[ironwill]

Meetings equals making friends and having "Union" people see you there, which means they'll see you as one of them.

It can go either way, but its a big game of politics...... You need friends on both sides. Just like Survivor.... The real world edition.

This sums it all up nicely, IMO!!!!

Brother , brother in the union hall, and on the job **** ya all!!!!:greet

Not always , but quite often...

[natenator]

I haven't seen a manager work hard in my life regardless of hours spent drinking coffee and going to meetings.
Spoken like someone who lacks the intelligence factor to move up the chain of command. You'd rather be a follower than a leader

[the-vanilla-gorilla]

local 92!!! and proud!

simple yeah theres lazy ****ers in the union
but there every where !

its just like most jobs union or not every site has them!


TVG

[ironwill]

local 92!!! and proud!

simple yeah theres lazy ****ers in the union
but there every where !

its just like most jobs union or not every site has them!


TVG

I can honestly say i dont have 1 lazy sob on my crew...I am lucky, and it took some work.....laying out expectations, making guys accountable for their actions...Making guys feel recognized when they do great things!!, My biggest trick is do not, i repeat do not paint everyone with the same brush...If you have guys hitting the shower early, or taking advantage of situations , I have 1 CREW talk and set out my expectations on the matter and let all the folks hear the same message, But If there are repeat offenders, its a one on one in my office...No need to drag the good guys down to that level once again....A crew is what one makes it....I agree that some managers suck at running crews and managing people and situations.....
It works both ways, and respect on both sides needs to be earned and sustained....Sustainment is the hard part.....

[natenator]

I can honestly say i dont have 1 lazy sob on my crew...I am lucky, and it took some work.....laying out expectations, making guys accountable for their actions...Making guys feel recognized when they do great things!!, My biggest trick is do not, i repeat do not paint everyone with the same brush...If you have guys hitting the shower early, or taking advantage of situations , I have 1 CREW talk and set out my expectations on the matter and let all the folks hear the same message, But If there are repeat offenders, its a one on one in my office...No need to drag the good guys down to that level once again....A crew is what one makes it....I agree that some managers suck at running crews and managing people and situations.....
It works both ways, and respect on both sides needs to be earned and sustained....Sustainment is the hard part.....
Agreed and I think people take things too personally.

I can reprimand someone who works for me one minute and then go out for an after work drink or dinner with them the next. It's not personal. it's business and there is a difference.

[ironwill]

Agreed and I think people take things too personally.

I can reprimand someone who works for me one minute and then go out for an after work drink or dinner with them the next. It's not personal. it's business and there is a difference.

Yes, i fully agree 100 percent.......Ive hired friends and explained that at times they may not like what im handing out, but i try and be open and consistent in what i do....Sometimes they may not enjoy what im handing out, but at the end of the day, they still have my respect and friendship....But on the job we are all equals and we all get shit and good jobs and i have to manage it as required..

[BAM]

......

[BAM]

Spoken like someone who lacks the intelligence factor to move up the chain of command. You'd rather be a follower than a leader

I do not think you are qualified to quantify intelligence.