Will Tren or Mast affect Test BW?

[Solo59]

This is an old question, so I apologize for repeating it, but I'll be brief. I'm pretty sure that non-androgenic anabolics like Deca, EQ, Primo, and what not will have no effect on blood tests that seek to measure one's testosterone levels (total or bioavailable). However, I'm wondering if androgenic hormones like Tren or Mast will affect one's testosterone readings. Seems likely they will. What is the correct answer?

Solo

[Redz]

Deca is non-androgenic? That doesn`t sound right to me.

[Praetorian]

This is an old question, so I apologize for repeating it, but I'll be brief. I'm pretty sure that non-androgenic anabolics like Deca, EQ, Primo, and what not will have no effect on blood tests that seek to measure one's testosterone levels (total or bioavailable). However, I'm wondering if androgenic hormones like Tren or Mast will affect one's testosterone readings. Seems likely they will. What is the correct answer?

Solo

All aas will affect endogenous test levels(they will drop) because of the suppression of the HPTA via the negative feedback loop...unless you are taking test itself which will artifically boost test levels.
P

[Solo59]

All aas will affect endogenous test levels(they will drop) because of the suppression of the HPTA via the negative feedback loop
Of course, but that's not what I'm asking.

...unless you are taking test itself which will artifically boost test levels.
Yes, exogenous testosterone will boost measurable testosterone levels (and that's more to the point). What I want to know is whether adding masteron or trenabol will also boost those measurable testosterone levels. Will they?

Am I wrong to assume that mainly nonandrogenic anabolics (EQ, Deca, Primo, etc.) will not increase measurable testosterone levels?

Solo

[Praetorian]

Of course, but that's not what I'm asking.

Yes, exogenous testosterone will boost measurable testosterone levels (and that's more to the point). What I want to know is whether adding masteron or trenabol will also boost those measurable testosterone levels. Will they?

Am I wrong to assume that mainly nonandrogenic anabolics (EQ, Deca, Primo, etc.) will not increase measurable testosterone levels?

Solo

Only testosterone will boost measured test levels....because it is testosterone. All other aas will not raise measured test levels....they are not testosterone their chemical structure is quite different. FYI...anabolics are not nonandrogenic....all anabolics have a level of androgen to them...some are just more androgenic then others.
P

[Solo59]

Only testosterone will boost measured test levels....because it is testosterone. All other aas will not raise measured test levels....they are not testosterone their chemical structure is quite different.
Really? So I could still run Mast & Tren while going off Test to meet my doc's expectation of testosterone levels in the low to normal range? I'm surprised but this makes sense. Thanks Praetorian.


FYI...anabolics are not nonandrogenic....all anabolics have a level of androgen to them...some are just more androgenic then others.
Okay, I just learned something today. But clearly some AAS is much more anabolic than androgenic (e.g., Deca) while others are much more androgenic than anabolic (e.g., Mast). So it's a continuum, eh? Thanks again, Mr. P.

Solo

[Praetorian]

Really? So I could still run Mast & Tren while going off Test to meet my doc's expectation of testosterone levels in the low to normal range? I'm surprised but this makes sense. Thanks Praetorian.


Okay, I just learned something today. But clearly some AAS is much more anabolic than androgenic (e.g., Deca) while others are much more androgenic than anabolic (e.g., Mast). So it's a continuum, eh? Thanks again, Mr. P.

Solo

Running mast and tren would push your endo test levels below normal...they would suppress your HPTA and the negative feedback would shut down endo test production almost completely.
The ratio of anabolic to androgenic is higher is some aas yes.
P

[Delt King]

Running mast and tren would push your endo test levels below normal...they would suppress your HPTA and the negative feedback would shut down endo test production almost completely.
The ratio of anabolic to androgenic is higher is some aas yes.
P

Sounds like this is what he wants in order to get a script for test. Solo, you're a sly dog, unless he gives you the cream (useless) lol

[Solo59]

Running mast and tren would push your endo test levels below normal...they would suppress your HPTA and the negative feedback would shut down endo test production almost completely.
The ratio of anabolic to androgenic is higher is some aas yes.
P

Bill Roberts on Mesomorphosis (http://forum.mesomorphosis.com/steroid-forum/trenbolone-mast-testosterone-bw-134287715.html) opined that one can't be too sure what will affect testosterone level readings. Much depends on who is doing the testing and how it is done:


Where the typical immunological-type assays are used, it is not predictable. It simply has to be determined by experiment whether a given compound that is not testosterone, but structurally similar, may be falsely picked up as testosterone.

For example, ZRT's tests, at least in the past, picked up 4-androstenediol as being, supposedly, testosterone.

The antiaromatase ATD can also be picked up as being, supposedly, testosterone. This incidentally is how a certain pseudo-PCT product is able to claim astoundingly high testosterone increases.

I don't know whether, for example, the method Quest uses would pick up dromostanolone (Masteron) or not. Only experiment would answer that.

The reason is that antibodies which have been created that bind an analyte (e.g. testosterone) well will often also strongly bind similarly-shaped molecules.

Makes it seem like a crap shoot, maybe yes, maybe no. However, I prefer Praetorian's suggestion. IF I stopped all exogenous Test for four weeks, and maybe ran a little Mast and/or Tren, I should be within range of normal. (I told my urologist doc of my AAS use but he wants to give me blood tests to see if my HRT test-gel protocol is working off-cycle. I of course want injects prescribed.)

Solo

[Solo59]

Sounds like this is what he wants in order to get a script for test. Solo, you're a sly dog, unless he gives you the cream (useless) lol

Hey, 500 posts. I've just become a bodybuilder!

I'm already on prescribed test-gel but it doesn't do for me what I expect, so I'm trying to get my new urologist doc to prescribe injects. Having a scrip for testosterone injects is also a very good insurance policy against detainment by legal authorities.

Solo

[dremen]

Hey, 500 posts. I've just become a bodybuilder!

I'm already on prescribed test-gel but it doesn't do for me what I expect, so I'm trying to get my new urologist doc to prescribe injects. Having a scrip for testosterone injects is also a very good insurance policy against detainment by legal authorities.

Solo

Well if you're still going to be lifting while on the tren/mast and then go to the doc for a blood test he MIGHT look at the test results then look at you all jacked up and think somethings a lil fishy....lol

Best o luck brudda:)

[Praetorian]

Bill Roberts on Mesomorphosis (http://forum.mesomorphosis.com/steroid-forum/trenbolone-mast-testosterone-bw-134287715.html) opined that one can't be too sure what will affect testosterone level readings. Much depends on who is doing the testing and how it is done:



Makes it seem like a crap shoot, maybe yes, maybe no. However, I prefer Praetorian's suggestion. IF I stopped all exogenous Test for four weeks, and maybe ran a little Mast and/or Tren, I should be within range of normal. (I told my urologist doc of my AAS use but he wants to give me blood tests to see if my HRT test-gel protocol is working off-cycle. I of course want injects prescribed.)

Solo

Bill Roberts advice I woudl take with a grain of salt...any strong androgen especially tren will seriously affect HPTA...that is proven science not opinion. If HPTA is affected then the negative feedback loop will push endo test to the low range...if this did not happen PCT would not be necessary would it.
P

[Solo59]

Bill Roberts advice I woudl take with a grain of salt...any strong androgen especially tren will seriously affect HPTA...that is proven science not opinion. If HPTA is affected then the negative feedback loop will push endo test to the low range...if this did not happen PCT would not be necessary would it.

Yes, I suppose that's likely, Praetorian. However, bloodwork doesn't just measure endogenous testosterone but any testosterone in the body (including exogenous). Might not a non-testosterone androgen appear like it is testosterone on the blood test? You say no and, in general, I believe you, but there have been other substances that led to "false" readings. Think I'll chance it, however.

Bill Roberts (http://www.tmuscle.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance_interviews/an_interview_with_the_big_cheese_part_i), a chemist, is generally well-regarded, I think. He's not the fraud, Anthony Roberts.

Solo

[Solo59]

Well if you're still going to be lifting while on the tren/mast and then go to the doc for a blood test he MIGHT look at the test results then look at you all jacked up and think somethings a lil fishy....lol

Best o luck brudda:)

Well, I don't entirely fabricate, Dremen. I told him I've used roids in the past and will tell him I just finished a cycle in January. Hopefully, my low readings can be blamed on this, and he will be so understanding of my athletic endeavours he'll just dance over to his prescription pad to write me out 200 mg of Test cyp per week.:rolleyes:

Solo

[tiramisu]

Yes, I suppose that's likely, Praetorian. However, bloodwork doesn't just measure endogenous testosterone but any testosterone in the body (including exogenous). Might not a non-testosterone androgen appear like it is testosterone on the blood test? You say no and, in general, I believe you, but there have been other substances that led to "false" readings. Think I'll chance it, however.

Bill Roberts (http://www.tmuscle.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance_interviews/an_interview_with_the_big_cheese_part_i), a chemist, is generally well-regarded, I think. He's not the fraud, Anthony Roberts.

Solo

a non testosterone androgen is NOT going to look like testosterone on your blood test.

[Praetorian]

a non testosterone androgen is NOT going to look like testosterone on your blood test.

Exactly nothing appears to be testosterone unless it is. You are not doing an epi/test epi ratio test you are testing the blood for the actual hormone free and bound.
P

[KoN]

Aren't all steroids derivatives or forms of testosterone?

[dremen]

Aren't all steroids derivatives or forms of testosterone?

Yes, but the chemical structure is different. When it comes to testing think of it like milk. Say 3.25% is testosterone and skim is masteron, but you don't know this so you test the milk for fat content and the one with the most is 3.25% and the one with the least is skim. Both are close to being the same, but equally different.

Ok maybe a bad analogy, but i ment well.....lol:D

[Solo59]

a non testosterone androgen is NOT going to look like testosterone on your blood test.

I'm convinced! I'm running masteron right through my tests, and then I'll add some mast & EQ to my HRT dose of Test cyp. (I'll keep the Test low so my prostate can shrink.)

Sincere thanks for the input (from Praetorian too, and even from Dremen).

Solo

[tiramisu]

Aren't all steroids derivatives or forms of testosterone?

yes and no, 3 different related common derivatives; 19Nor-testosterone, testosterone, and Dihydrotestosterone (dht). That they are derivatives however does not mean that they break down into the substance that they are akin to. They are unique hormones of themselves that have a different but similar molecular structure.

eq - derived from test
masteron - derived from dht
trenbolone/nandrolone et al - derived from 19Nor-testosterone

[dremen]

Sincere thanks for the input (from Praetorian too, and even from Dremen).



Wow now aint that a ****ing first...lol

Here's to you getting a script for the inject test brudda:D

P.s. If all else fails with the doc tell him/her you will just get it off the street then and if you use dirty gear it's their fault. Maybe the doc would rather have you on watson cyp then street gear???