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View Full Version : Why does the injection site hurt?



Delt King
12-03-2010, 12:31 PM
Just some good info, since some have been asking lately.

First, there are five primary causes of injection pain.

1) High Benzyl Alcohol content.

Benzyl Alcohol (BA) is used to increase the lipid solubility of esterfied compounds and to prevent bacteria growth in the oil. Most UGL's use excess BA or only BA as the co-solvent, due to it's modest price. Unfortunately, it can cause the destruction of cells and significant localised pain and inflammation. The discomfort is characterised by fairly rapid onset of a painful, red, swollen area. This can be ameliorated by diluting the compound with sterile cutting oil (grapeseed, cottonseed, sesameseed). A 1:1 ratio often works well.

2) Precipitation of short estered compounds

The shorter an ester, the less solubility is has in oil. This necessitates higher concentrations of BA to prevent the compound from 'crashing' out of solution. When the oil is injected, the BA is absorbed from the location of the oil depot. This caused the active compound to precipitate fine crystals within the muscle. The onset of this pain is often 4-12 hours after injection and is characterised by a hard, red, swelling at the injection site. To prevent this an additional co-solvent is needed, Benzyl Benzoate. BB maintains solubility of the esterfied compound past the point at which BA has been removed, preventing crystaline precipitation. Most UGL's don't add this to their compounded oils due to the higher cost. If added at approximately 20% by volume you can prevent most associated short ester pain.

3) High concentration (mg/ml)

Per above, Long ester = high solubility, short ester = less solubility. Human grade pharmaceutical hormones are almost never dosed higher then 200mg/ml for long esters (cypionate). To increase the concentration, a larger amount of BA is necessary as a co-solvent. This can result in a similar reaction to that caused by short esters with pain and swelling as the BA is absorbed and solubility decreases and precipitation occurs. In this instance you don't 'need' the additional co-solvent (BB, but it still helps!). Instead, you can simply dilute the compounding oil with sterile cutting oil to lower the concentration to within the solubility for that ester.

4) Fascia displacement

This occurs when a large volumetric quantity is injected into a single site. The oil pushes the muscle fascia apart and results in stretching and eventually scarring with the muscle. This can be avoided by reducing single site injection volume and spreading the injections between multiple sites. This is also a good idea as more smaller, more frequent dosing significantly reduces many of the side effects of AAS. These become exacerbated by peak and troughs in hormone levels. The reduction in side effects is particularly dramatic with trenbolone acetate when an ED injection schedule is maintained.

5) Histamine reaction

This doesn't occur as often, but is still a potential possibility. For a compound to become biologically active the ester must be cleaved from the parent molecule. This results in the formation of a carboxylic acid. Some people find that they are sensitive to one of these. This results in swelling, warmth, redness and possibly a rash at the injection site. In the worst instance the individual may have an existing allergy to the carrier oil (sessame, etc...) that can result in anaphylaxis (swelling and occlusion of the airway) in addition to localised inflammation. If any histamine reaction results, immediately discontinue use and switch to an alternate carrier oil and/or alternate ester. If anaphylaxis results, immediately seek medical attention.


Ultimately I break these down into the following set of rules.

1) Dilute compound with sterile cutting oil to get mg/ml at <=200 for long esters and <=100 for short esters.
2) Add 20% Benzyl Benzoate by volume to propionate and phenylpropionate esters.
3) Use a 23g needle to prevent high output pressure from smaller needles
4) Inject very slowly to reduce muscle fascia displacement
5) Inject frequently w/ less volume, <3ml for large muscles and <2ml for smaller muscles
6) Rotate sites every time
7) Gently warm the oil to improve viscosity
8) Ensure that the injection is deep intra-muscular and fully through any sub cutaneous fat

BigDane
12-03-2010, 12:38 PM
Thanks bro, some great info and advice.

Green for you :D

pblade
12-03-2010, 01:41 PM
Top grade thread. Appreciate the info, as I am currently experiencing a lot of discomfort from my ugl brand. I would contribute it to a high BA content most likely.

White-Tiger
12-03-2010, 02:05 PM
Very good info! Green! :D

bigtavi8
12-03-2010, 06:03 PM
Informative post...green for you if i could. We should make this a sticky for the hrt section. Best info weve had in a while.

bongd
12-03-2010, 08:35 PM
Forgot the last one, bro. Shitty gear.

Never heard of anyone in real life complain so much about injection pain until I came to this site. There must be some shitty dealer that solicits on here or something. I've had a couple shitty injects before but nothing like on here with all the swelling and pain. Scares the shit out of me what some guys here inject.

dremen
13-03-2010, 03:42 AM
Forgot the last one, bro. Shitty gear.

Never heard of anyone in real life complain so much about injection pain until I came to this site. There must be some shitty dealer that solicits on here or something. I've had a couple shitty injects before but nothing like on here with all the swelling and pain. Scares the shit out of me what some guys here inject.

I don't think it's shitty gear being used at all, actualy quite the opposite only that the gear is EO based and at a HIGH mg/ml ratio thus painful injections. ALSO i think there are quite a few people out there that don't know what a REALLY painful shot feels like.....lol

A lil burning or swelling will happen from time to time with any gear IMHO.

Shit i did a glute shot years ago and 2 days after the injection my glute felt like it had been shot with a gun full of salt and a few days later my entire leg swelled up from my glute down to my calf and you could push in on the skin and it would leave a ****ing indent like there was putty under the skin....lol

The pain/swelling lasted almost 2 full weeks and from what i was told the gear crashed inside me or crystalised whatever and gravity pulled it down my entire leg.

Now THAT was some ****ed up and scarry ass shit man.

Victor85
13-03-2010, 06:58 AM
Just some good info, since some have been asking lately.

First, there are five primary causes of injection pain.

1) High Benzyl Alcohol content.

Benzyl Alcohol (BA) is used to increase the lipid solubility of esterfied compounds and to prevent bacteria growth in the oil. Most UGL's use excess BA or only BA as the co-solvent, due to it's modest price. Unfortunately, it can cause the destruction of cells and significant localised pain and inflammation. The discomfort is characterised by fairly rapid onset of a painful, red, swollen area. This can be ameliorated by diluting the compound with sterile cutting oil (grapeseed, cottonseed, sesameseed). A 1:1 ratio often works well.

2) Precipitation of short estered compounds

The shorter an ester, the less solubility is has in oil. This necessitates higher concentrations of BA to prevent the compound from 'crashing' out of solution. When the oil is injected, the BA is absorbed from the location of the oil depot. This caused the active compound to precipitate fine crystals within the muscle. The onset of this pain is often 4-12 hours after injection and is characterised by a hard, red, swelling at the injection site. To prevent this an additional co-solvent is needed, Benzyl Benzoate. BB maintains solubility of the esterfied compound past the point at which BA has been removed, preventing crystaline precipitation. Most UGL's don't add this to their compounded oils due to the higher cost. If added at approximately 20% by volume you can prevent most associated short ester pain.

3) High concentration (mg/ml)

Per above, Long ester = high solubility, short ester = less solubility. Human grade pharmaceutical hormones are almost never dosed higher then 200mg/ml for long esters (cypionate). To increase the concentration, a larger amount of BA is necessary as a co-solvent. This can result in a similar reaction to that caused by short esters with pain and swelling as the BA is absorbed and solubility decreases and precipitation occurs. In this instance you don't 'need' the additional co-solvent (BB, but it still helps!). Instead, you can simply dilute the compounding oil with sterile cutting oil to lower the concentration to within the solubility for that ester.

4) Fascia displacement

This occurs when a large volumetric quantity is injected into a single site. The oil pushes the muscle fascia apart and results in stretching and eventually scarring with the muscle. This can be avoided by reducing single site injection volume and spreading the injections between multiple sites. This is also a good idea as more smaller, more frequent dosing significantly reduces many of the side effects of AAS. These become exacerbated by peak and troughs in hormone levels. The reduction in side effects is particularly dramatic with trenbolone acetate when an ED injection schedule is maintained.

5) Histamine reaction

This doesn't occur as often, but is still a potential possibility. For a compound to become biologically active the ester must be cleaved from the parent molecule. This results in the formation of a carboxylic acid. Some people find that they are sensitive to one of these. This results in swelling, warmth, redness and possibly a rash at the injection site. In the worst instance the individual may have an existing allergy to the carrier oil (sessame, etc...) that can result in anaphylaxis (swelling and occlusion of the airway) in addition to localised inflammation. If any histamine reaction results, immediately discontinue use and switch to an alternate carrier oil and/or alternate ester. If anaphylaxis results, immediately seek medical attention.


Ultimately I break these down into the following set of rules.

1) Dilute compound with sterile cutting oil to get mg/ml at <=200 for long esters and <=100 for short esters.
2) Add 20% Benzyl Benzoate by volume to propionate and phenylpropionate esters.
3) Use a 23g needle to prevent high output pressure from smaller needles
4) Inject very slowly to reduce muscle fascia displacement
5) Inject frequently w/ less volume, <3ml for large muscles and <2ml for smaller muscles
6) Rotate sites every time
7) Gently warm the oil to improve viscosity
8) Ensure that the injection is deep intra-muscular and fully through any sub cutaneous fat

Damn brah!!! u sound like a FREAKIN HRT specialist/doctor. I need to talk to you more often. (U dont want to hear my 2 cents mang)

bigtavi8
13-03-2010, 07:51 AM
Bongd i hear ya in some cases it could be shitty gear but in a case were you have been using the same gear, carrier, mg/ml and all of the sudden it gets inflammed or painful. Then its something else like the ba, bb, etc. etc.

bigtavi8
13-03-2010, 07:53 AM
. Scares the shit out of me what some guys here inject.

top quality snake oil + 150m beaver tramquillizers+ 1 moldy bacteria filled bathtub

=top notch gear.

j-dub
13-03-2010, 08:21 AM
i've personally never had issues with injections other than one batch of winny a few years back. it was made by spectre?? if i remember correctly. this stuff killed me, no swelling or other such trivial things, just pain. thigh shots felt like a charlie horse from a ball peen hammer and lasted two to three days. i think it is alcohol in to high concentration in some of the underground stuff because the upjohn or zambon brands never bothered me a bit. ahh the good ol days