9/11 conspiracy theorists...

[CanadianIron]

Give it a rest already... after watching retards hold up signs for 3 weeks during the CTV news broadcasts downtown and having seen the booth they set up to enlighten us, I opted to check out this site... SOOOO stupid...

http://www.wtc7.net/index.html

I cant believe people actually think explosives were used to bring down any of the WTC buildings, so brainless.

IMO the ONLY thing that is "dubious" about the whole 9/11 terrorist attack is the fact that they choose to keep and hide the actual footage of the planes hitting the pentagon. But at the same time I can understand them not wanting foreign governments to have information relating to the destruction of one of the countries biggest defensive centers.

Anyways, these people need to find something else to do. 9/11 was not an inside job, it was a bunch of wako terrorists exploiting the extremely lack security we had in our airports pre 9/11. Pretty much anyone that wanted to high jack a plane in the 90's easily could have, and we all know it. Case closed.

[CanadianIron]

Heres a good quote from that site.


It appeared that water on site was limited due to a 20-inch broken water main in Vesey Street. Although WTC 7 was sprinklered, it did not appear that there would have been a sufficient quantity of water to control the growth and spread of the fires on multiple floors. In addition, the firefighters made the decision fairly early on not to attempt to fight the fires, due in part to the damage to WTC 7 from the collapsing towers. Hence, the fire progressed throughout the day fairly unimpeded by automatic or manual suppression activities.

This explanation is highly dubious given that Building 7 was only about two blocks from the Hudson.


There argument is that the fire department should have brought in pump barges and ran large water hoses across the burning WTC towers and went into WTC7 to put out the fires... good one guys.

[cog]

Give it a rest already... after watching retards hold up signs for 3 weeks during the CTV news broadcasts downtown and having seen the booth they set up to enlighten us, I opted to check out this site... SOOOO stupid...

http://www.wtc7.net/index.html

I cant believe people actually think explosives were used to bring down any of the WTC buildings, so brainless.

IMO the ONLY thing that is "dubious" about the whole 9/11 terrorist attack is the fact that they choose to keep and hide the actual footage of the planes hitting the pentagon. But at the same time I can understand them not wanting foreign governments to have information relating to the destruction of one of the countries biggest defensive centers.

Anyways, these people need to find something else to do. 9/11 was not an inside job, it was a bunch of wako terrorists exploiting the extremely lack security we had in our airports pre 9/11. Pretty much anyone that wanted to high jack a plane in the 90's easily could have, and we all know it. Case closed.

The hole in the Pentagon was less than a metre in diameter.The sod in front of the entry point was bulldozed off almost immediately.Hardly conducive to an investigation.I had to go to a Lithuanian site to see this,no western news agencies were allowing discussion at that point....a Russian guy told me about it.

[cog]

At one point in time the Israelis actually admitted to supplying arms covertly to Palestinians.The Americans had these guys on the radar...

[buildinthaskinnys]

Explosives or not, the fact that both buildings fells straight down is simply amazing.

[BAM]

Give it a rest already... after watching retards hold up signs for 3 weeks during the CTV news broadcasts downtown and having seen the booth they set up to enlighten us, I opted to check out this site... SOOOO stupid...

http://www.wtc7.net/index.html

I cant believe people actually think explosives were used to bring down any of the WTC buildings, so brainless.

IMO the ONLY thing that is "dubious" about the whole 9/11 terrorist attack is the fact that they choose to keep and hide the actual footage of the planes hitting the pentagon. But at the same time I can understand them not wanting foreign governments to have information relating to the destruction of one of the countries biggest defensive centers.

Anyways, these people need to find something else to do. 9/11 was not an inside job, it was a bunch of wako terrorists exploiting the extremely lack security we had in our airports pre 9/11. Pretty much anyone that wanted to high jack a plane in the 90's easily could have, and we all know it. Case closed.

So I guess you mean that this is your opinion?

[waderow]

CI... there are actually about 6 morons here who think that bush and the jews brought down the trade ctr

[BAM]

CI... there are actually about 6 morons here who think that bush and the jews brought down the trade ctr

and the rest of them just live ignorance. ;)

[waderow]

and the rest of them just live in ignorance. ;)

lol
the rest are higher intelligence, and understand pullin goff such a feat is impossible, and had no motive

[BAM]

lol
the rest are higher intelligence, and understand pullin goff such a feat is impossible, and had no motive

What do you base your opinion on?

[RagingRandy]

Not sure how it happened or who "dun it" but there seems to be a whole lot of unanswered questions. If the government explanation was so conclusive it seems to me they could easily refute the conspiracy theorists. Instead you have almost 1100 architects and engineers asking questions and not getting answers. These are not your basement wackos but professionals that see inconsistencies in the governments explanations. http://www.ae911truth.org/

[waderow]

Not sure how it happened or who "dun it" but there seems to be a whole lot of unanswered questions. If the government explanation was so conclusive it seems to me they could easily refute the conspiracy theorists. Instead you have almost 1100 architects and engineers asking questions and not getting answers. These are not your basement wackos but professionals that see inconsistencies in the governments explanations. http://www.ae911truth.org/

they are neo-democrats

[BAM]

http://www.911missinglinks.com/watch-movie/

[juced_porkchop]

CI... there are actually about 6 morons here who think that bush and the jews brought down the trade ctr

7

[Mr.Freeze]

8

Wade, it's obvious you dont know what your talking about!

[waderow]

I counted you two dipshits in the 6.

And freeze, I already made you look dumb in another thread, so lets not do this again

[Ritch]

I`m no expert on this subject and will not get into a heated discussion about it, but find it very suspicious how the buildings well straight down.

Wade buddy, you`re gonna have a seizure bro...

[champion99]

Not sure how it happened or who "dun it" but there seems to be a whole lot of unanswered questions. If the government explanation was so conclusive it seems to me they could easily refute the conspiracy theorists. Instead you have almost 1100 architects and engineers asking questions and not getting answers. These are not your basement wackos but professionals that see inconsistencies in the governments explanations. http://www.ae911truth.org/


agreed with this statement...the people that think other wise should read more into it..the fact is the IMPOSSIBLE happened the fact the 1100 architects and engineers are asking questions who have 100 times more knowledge on these things then ANYONE on this board should send RED ****ING FLAGS but it doesnt go anywhere then what the ****ed up corrupt american goverment says happened..****ING BULLSHIT ANYONE ASK WHY FEMA WAS THERE A DAY IN ADVANCE

[waderow]

I`m no expert on this subject and will not get into a heated discussion about it, but find it very suspicious how the buildings well straight down.

Wade buddy, you`re gonna have a seizure bro...

how should it have gone down?

there is the fastest way from point a-b and thats a straight line.

[CanadianIron]

I`m no expert on this subject and will not get into a heated discussion about it, but find it very suspicious how the buildings well straight down.

Wade buddy, you`re gonna have a seizure bro...


Its called gravity. Never in the history of the universe has an object falled sideways. Gravity will pull an object towards the center of the planet everytime.

All it takes is 1 level of failure and pretty much any building will collapse in on itself. No building is build to withstand an off centered load. Steel beams are only strong if they are verticle. I remember watching both of the towers fall, and the top portions of the towers buckled and tipped to one side then collapsed crushing 1 floor at a time with great speed.

If the buildings failed at ground levels you could expect the entire tower to tip over, but the top 1/3 of the buildings acted like a hammer using gravity to crush each and every level below it.

We KNOW there are crazy islamic radicals in the middle east that will happily give their lives to kill americans, and we KNOW that pre 9-11 airport security was a joke. I did a trip to europe a year before 9/11 and brought back half a back pack full of fire crackers from bastille day in Paris and 4 switchblades, in my carry on. Given these 2 factors alone, its easy for me to see that 9/11 was entirely plausible regardless of who orchistrated the attacks, it was extremely possible for civilian terrorists to have pulled it off given the exact same circumstances.

As for the 1 meter hole in the pentagon, that was like 3-4 layers into the building. If you stacked up a bunch of layers of walls and threw an object of varying density/materials (an airplane) you would have a hole that would taper from large to small. The first layer would catch all the materials of lesser density and the more dense objects with more inertia would penetrate deeper into the structure. And if you're wondering why the clean up was fast or why they arent releasing more photos... its the ****ing pentagon... duh.

[CanadianIron]

Not sure how it happened or who "dun it" but there seems to be a whole lot of unanswered questions. If the government explanation was so conclusive it seems to me they could easily refute the conspiracy theorists. Instead you have almost 1100 architects and engineers asking questions and not getting answers. These are not your basement wackos but professionals that see inconsistencies in the governments explanations. http://www.ae911truth.org/

I remember watching a 2 hour special maybe 2-3 years after 9-11 about the towers, they know EXACTLY how they fell. Instead of searching for conspiracy theory sites, look for legit sites that explain the events, they arent as easy to find, but the happenings of 9/11 are quite well explained.

The only unanswered questions is EXACTLY how WTC7 fell, and its not because they're dumb founded and totally puzzled, its because they're not sure which of the possible cases brought the building down. They had raging infernos on multiple levels of the building, but they also had exterior damage from the falling north tower, not to mention the largest sky scraper in the USA had just falled to the ground 100 feet away. Fire fighters saw a large bulge in the building hours before it fell, that in itself debunks the explosives theory. If you want a conspiracy theory to carry, you'd have to assume everyone of the people who gave testimony as to these kinds of details were "in" on it... you'd have to assume thousands of americans were briefed on this theory and that they were prepared to live out the remainders of their lives carrying the lie.

I dunno, using small unanswered questions to throw off the whole attack seems silly, its pretty obvious to most people what happened that day.

So whats more likely.... a bunch of Islamic radicals took some flight training, spent some time learning the cockpit of 767's, and high jacked 4 planes with things we know they could get onto planes and flew them into buildings that failed when they were hit by large planes full of fuel... or thousands of americans worked against themselves orchistrating an attack on their own cities?

[waderow]

Its called gravity. Never in the history of the universe has an object falled sideways. Gravity will pull an object towards the center of the planet everytime.

All it takes is 1 level of failure and pretty much any building will collapse in on itself. No building is build to withstand an off centered load. Steel beams are only strong if they are verticle. I remember watching both of the towers fall, and the top portions of the towers buckled and tipped to one side then collapsed crushing 1 floor at a time with great speed.

If the buildings failed at ground levels you could expect the entire tower to tip over, but the top 1/3 of the buildings acted like a hammer using gravity to crush each and every level below it.

We KNOW there are crazy islamic radicals in the middle east that will happily give their lives to kill americans, and we KNOW that pre 9-11 airport security was a joke. I did a trip to europe a year before 9/11 and brought back half a back pack full of fire crackers from bastille day in Paris and 4 switchblades, in my carry on. Given these 2 factors alone, its easy for me to see that 9/11 was entirely plausible regardless of who orchistrated the attacks, it was extremely possible for civilian terrorists to have pulled it off given the exact same circumstances.

As for the 1 meter hole in the pentagon, that was like 3-4 layers into the building. If you stacked up a bunch of layers of walls and threw an object of varying density/materials (an airplane) you would have a hole that would taper from large to small. The first layer would catch all the materials of lesser density and the more dense objects with more inertia would penetrate deeper into the structure. And if you're wondering why the clean up was fast or why they arent releasing more photos... its the ****ing pentagon... duh.

the conspiracy theorists watch one liberal propaganda video, and become engineering experts.

at 43000 ft2 per level, with steel concrete hybrid design, you will have a 100 pound per ft2 dead load. Weakened and removed columns would have collapsed one or more levels onto a level below at or slightly below impact.
4.3million pounds of additional weight, per collapsed floor rests on a floor that is designed for less then that. After failure, you also have kinetic energy forming in addition to mass, and the numbers are ****ing astronomical.

The only questions I have is what brought down flight 93. I think it was shot down, and early reports that day said as much. I can understand why the govt censors that though

[CanadianIron]

What reports said it was shot down?

I personally buy the idea that flight 93 was high jacked and the passengers got wind of the other attacks and the high jackers took it into the ground.

Ever tried your cell phone in a plane.. I have.. and it will work during certain periods in your flight. A plane flies 5 miles high, with a direct line of sight to pretty much every cell tower below. If you dont believe me, turn on your cell phone and watch the bars the next time you're on a flight.

[waderow]

What reports said it was shot down?

I personally buy the idea that flight 93 was high jacked and the passengers got wind of the other attacks and the high jackers took it into the ground.

Ever tried your cell phone in a plane.. I have.. and it will work during certain periods in your flight. A plane flies 5 miles high, with a direct line of sight to pretty much every cell tower below. If you dont believe me, turn on your cell phone and watch the bars the next time you're on a flight.

I watched live coverage that day, and they had flash news that a plane had just been shot down by scrambled f-16's. By the end of the day, they said nothing about it.

[buildinthaskinnys]

Wow waderow and canadianiron should become demolitions experts, because with these two, they could save millons of dollars on explosives each year. according too you guys the first couple floors fell and inititiated a chain reaction? And then the towers fell perfectly straight? Bravo!!! Thats what everyone else is saying so that makes it true!!! Not saying its impossible but I bet in a million years you would never be able to recreate that scenario again. Two towers almost identical, both accidently fall straight down, even a demolitons expert would have a hard time getting that to happen.

[waderow]

Wow waderow and canadianiron should become demolitions experts, because with these two, they could save millons of dollars on explosives each year. according too you guys the first couple floors fell and inititiated a chain reaction? And then the towers fell perfectly straight? Bravo!!! Thats what everyone else is saying so that makes it true!!! Not saying its impossible but I bet in a million years you would never be able to recreate that scenario again. Two towers almost identical, both accidently fall straight down, even a demolitons expert would have a hard time getting that to happen.

a controlled demo would have miles of det cord, and computer programs written, and maybe ten thousand charges all requiring coring and weakening cuts into structural steel.

It would take a crew months of full time hardcore prep to demo that building with explosives.

oh wait.... OR maybe the cia went in afterhours one night and did it all without anyone knowing.... right?

[buildinthaskinnys]

the conspiracy theorists watch one liberal propaganda video, and become engineering experts.

at 43000 ft2 per level, with steel concrete hybrid design, you will have a 100 pound per ft2 dead load. Weakened and removed columns would have collapsed one or more levels onto a level below at or slightly below impact.
4.3million pounds of additional weight, per collapsed floor rests on a floor that is designed for less then that. After failure, you also have kinetic energy forming in addition to mass, and the numbers are ****ing astronomical.

The only questions I have is what brought down flight 93. I think it was shot down, and early reports that day said as much. I can understand why the govt censors that though

I didnt know you were an architect or an engineer, now can you explain, how that the buildings fell exactly the same way even though the planes entered at different levels and areas of the building. Now obviously Im not highly educated like yourself here dude so maybe you can explain to me how with all the variables that were in effect, how the buildings could fall exactly the same way? It seems to me the looming mass of the upper portion of the building (above the plane) would only fall straight down if its supports crumbled at the exact same time, with one plane actually entering the building crooked with its wings almost diagonal woudnt this leave all the supports intact on one side of he building? Oh!! I forgot the raging fire made everything the same, thanks anyway man peace out!!

[buildinthaskinnys]

a controlled demo would have miles of det cord, and computer programs written, and maybe ten thousand charges all requiring coring and weakening cuts into structural steel.

It would take a crew months of full time hardcore prep to demo that building with explosives.

oh wait.... OR maybe the cia went in afterhours one night and did it all without anyone knowing.... right?

You know a shit load about firearms, but you know little of the capabilitys of modern explosives. Theres no ****ing way they used generic demo charges on the building, the residue would have been all over the place, too obvious, try again?

[Mr.Freeze]

I counted you two dipshits in the 6.

And freeze, I already made you look dumb in another thread, so lets not do this again

here we go,
first of all you should be more polite when you reply to people on CBB, just because you have 5000 post it doesnt give you the right to go around and tell people off! Funny cuz for more then two years i was the top poster over here and i always rectected every single member on this board.
CBB is a discussion board not you ****en house so keep your smart ass reply's for your house.
Its ****en people like you that bring the qualety of this board down instead of talking shit all the time why dont you make your self usefull for once and make thread's about bodybuilding, nutrition, supplement and training.
its so funny how people are all tough guy behind a keyboard but in the real life there always the first to run when shit goes down.
You should get a life , i mean a real life you know like working have a house, car, wife, kid or better yet you should start training and maybe you will have a little bit more to do then just waste your time as well as other's time reading your pointless reply on CBB.

im out of here cuz I got thing to do today :greet

[waderow]

here we go,
first of all you should be more polite when you reply to people on CBB, just because you have 5000 post it doesnt give you the right to go around and tell people off! Funny cuz for more then two years i was the top poster over here and i always rectected every single member on this board.
CBB is a discussion board not you ****en house so keep your smart ass reply's for your house.
Its ****en people like you that bring the qualety of this board down instead of talking shit all the time why dont you make your self usefull for once and make thread's about bodybuilding, nutrition, supplement and training.
its so funny how people are all tough guy behind a keyboard but in the real life there always the first to run when shit goes down.
You should get a life , i mean a real life you know like working have a house, car, wife, kid or better yet you should start training and maybe you will have a little bit more to do then just waste your time as well as other's time reading your pointless reply on CBB.

im out of here cuz I got thing to do today :greet

its obvious you dont know what youre talking about

[cog]

CI,you are such a trusting soul.I like you.Are there ANY pics of that "plane" that hit the pentagon?

[waderow]

You know a shit load about firearms, but you know little of the capabilitys of modern explosives. Theres no ****ing way they used generic demo charges on the building, the residue would have been all over the place, too obvious, try again?

so they used space age demo from nasa designed by aliens from mars.

either way, it didnt or couldnt happen

[waderow]

I didnt know you were an architect or an engineer, now can you explain, how that the buildings fell exactly the same way even though the planes entered at different levels and areas of the building. Now obviously Im not highly educated like yourself here dude so maybe you can explain to me how with all the variables that were in effect, how the buildings could fall exactly the same way? It seems to me the looming mass of the upper portion of the building (above the plane) would only fall straight down if its supports crumbled at the exact same time, with one plane actually entering the building crooked with its wings almost diagonal woudnt this leave all the supports intact on one side of he building? Oh!! I forgot the raging fire made everything the same, thanks anyway man peace out!!

i have been involved in high rise construction from hole to completion on 10 towers at least. yes, I am more qualified than you

these engineers reiterate my beliefs

The basic theory of Bazant & Zhou is explained as follows, and sketched in their Fig. 1:

In stage 1 (Fig. 1), the conflagration caused by the aircraft fuel spilled into the structure causes the steel of the columns to be exposed to sustained temperatures apparently exceeding 800°C. The heating is probably accelerated by a loss of the protective thermal insulation of steel during the initial blast. At such temperatures, structural steel suffers a decrease of yield strength and exhibits significant viscoplastic deformation (i.e., creep—an increase of deformation under sustained load). This leads to creep buckling of columns (e.g., Bazant and Cedolin 1991, Sec. 9), which consequently lose their load carrying capacity (stage 2). Once more than about a half of the columns in the critical floor that is heated most suffer buckling (stage 3), the weight of the upper part of the structure above this floor can no longer be supported, and so the upper part starts falling down onto the lower part below the critical floor, gathering speed until it impacts the lower part. At that moment, the upper part has acquired an enormous kinetic energy and a significant downward velocity. The vertical impact of the mass of the upper part onto the lower part (stage 4) applies enormous vertical dynamic load on the underlying structure, far exceeding its load capacity, even if it is not heated. This causes failure of an underlying multi-floor segment of the tower (stage 4), in which the failure of the connections of the floor-carrying trusses to the columns is either accompanied or quickly followed by buckling of the core columns and overall buckling of the framed tube, with the buckles probably spanning the height of many floors (stage 5, at right), and the upper part possibly getting wedged inside an emptied lower part of the framed tube (stage 5, at left). The buckling is initially plastic but quickly leads to fracture in the plastic hinges. The part of building lying beneath is then impacted again by an even larger mass falling with a greater velocity, and the series of impacts and failures then proceeds all the way down (stage 5).

[CanadianIron]

Wow waderow and canadianiron should become demolitions experts, because with these two, they could save millons of dollars on explosives each year. according too you guys the first couple floors fell and inititiated a chain reaction? And then the towers fell perfectly straight? Bravo!!! Thats what everyone else is saying so that makes it true!!! Not saying its impossible but I bet in a million years you would never be able to recreate that scenario again. Two towers almost identical, both accidently fall straight down, even a demolitons expert would have a hard time getting that to happen.



First you have to concider the fact that, these buildings even standing where they did was quite a marvel. These were the 2 tallest buildings in the world for a while, so even to keep them there was testing the limits of engineering in their day.

How many times in history have explosives been used to demolished buildings 1000+ ft tall? Never... its never been done, period. So you're assuming even the demolision experts knew what they were doing. You're assuming demolision experts brought down the 2 tallest towers in the world, on their first try, with hundreds and thousands of people in the building, while the building was on fire and after 2 planes hit the building in unpredictable ways.

Just cause you're a little simple, I'll make this easier to understand.

Go get a bathroom scale and stand on it. Write down the weight you see. Now jump up a foot and land on the scale. Write down the weight you see.
Now climb onto something 10' tall and drop onto the scale, and write down the number you see, nm you just crushed the scale.

Once one level of the building failed, the top portion of the building effective mulitplied its applied weight by a large multiple, the building effectively doubled in height on the floors under it. Imagine for a second if you could place a large weight on the top of a tall building, capable of crushing the entire building. Picture a meteor placed on the top of the WTC and released. The ****ing thing would crush the builing right where it stood. Simple as that. That is what happened when the floors collapsed where the planes hit.

You dont have to be an expert or engineer to see an obvious scenario play out.

[buildinthaskinnys]

i have been involved in high rise construction from hole to completion. yes, I am more qualified than you

What is this supposed to mean? are an engineer? or you are an architect?

[waderow]

What is this supposed to mean? are an engineer? or you are an architect?

on a management level overseeing construction with tech courses on structural concrete design and construction, so I would say engineering background, with more hands on and site time than any engineer will ever have, with no degree. Never said I was though did i.

[CanadianIron]

Those titles dont mean shit, you dont need to be an explosives engineer to blow up a building just like you dont have to be a licensed mechanic to change your own oil.

[CanadianIron]

CI,you are such a trusting soul.I like you.Are there ANY pics of that "plane" that hit the pentagon?

No, but there is a missing plane, missing passengers, a large hole in the exterior of the pentagon and eye witnesses that are living to this day.

[buildinthaskinnys]

First you have to concider the fact that, these buildings even standing where they did was quite a marvel. These were the 2 tallest buildings in the world for a while, so even to keep them there was testing the limits of engineering in their day.

How many times in history have explosives been used to demolished buildings 1000+ ft tall? Never... its never been done, period. So you're assuming even the demolision experts knew what they were doing. You're assuming demolision experts brought down the 2 tallest towers in the world, on their first try, with hundreds and thousands of people in the building, while the building was on fire and after 2 planes hit the building in unpredictable ways.

Just cause you're a little simple, I'll make this easier to understand.

Go get a bathroom scale and stand on it. Write down the weight you see. Now jump up a foot and land on the scale. Write down the weight you see.
Now climb onto something 10' tall and drop onto the scale, and write down the number you see, nm you just crushed the scale.

Once one level of the building failed, the top portion of the building effective mulitplied its applied weight by a large multiple, the building effectively doubled in height on the floors under it. Imagine for a second if you could place a large weight on the top of a tall building, capable of crushing the entire building. Picture a meteor placed on the top of the WTC and released. The ****ing thing would crush the builing right where it stood. Simple as that. That is what happened when the floors collapsed where the planes hit.

You dont have to be an expert or engineer to see an obvious scenario play out.

wow looks like something that I have already read, on the internet, give me something new you milky licker!!, I have already read a huge amount of material on this subect, everything from the straight story to how the ****ing reptiles were involved.

[cog]

Wow waderow and canadianiron should become demolitions experts, because with these two, they could save millons of dollars on explosives each year. according too you guys the first couple floors fell and inititiated a chain reaction? And then the towers fell perfectly straight? Bravo!!! Thats what everyone else is saying so that makes it true!!! Not saying its impossible but I bet in a million years you would never be able to recreate that scenario again. Two towers almost identical, both accidently fall straight down, even a demolitons expert would have a hard time getting that to happen.

They could go into the high rise demo biz and make millions.Yup,that one looks like it will come straight down,no worries.

[CanadianIron]

So tell me how the buildings should have fallen in your opinion.

[waderow]

wow looks like something that I have already read, on the internet, give me something new you milky licker!!, I have already read a huge amount of material on this subect, everything from the straight story to how the ****ing reptiles were involved.

all you are doing is disagreeing with everyone who doesnt think the absurdities you do. Post up how you think it all went down with the spies and jews, and bush the antichrist

[buildinthaskinnys]

on a management level overseeing construction with tech courses on structural concrete design and construction, so I would say engineering background, with more hands on and site time than any engineer will ever have, with no degree. Never said I was though did i.

I never said the buildings were demolished either. But it dosent change the fact that they both fell straight down and it was nothing short of spectacular. But there are lots of smart people that dont believe what the government said either waderow, I might venture to say, smarter than you even.:yeah

[waderow]

on a management level overseeing construction with tech courses on structural concrete design and construction, so I would say engineering background, with more hands on and site time than any engineer will ever have, with no degree. Never said I was though did i.

I never said the buildings were demolished either. But it dosent change the fact that they both fell straight down and it was nothing short of spectacular. But there are lots of smart people that dont believe what the government said either waderow, I might venture to say, smarter than you even.:yeah

see if you can get your head around this:

Journal of Engineering Mechanics ASCE, in press
9/13/01, Expanded 9/22/01, Appendices 9/28/01)
Why Did the World Trade Center Collapse?—Simple Analysis

By Zdenek P. Bazant1, Fellow ASCE, and Yong Zhou2

Abstract: This paper3 presents a simplified approximate analysis of the overall collapse of the towers of World Trade Center in New York on September 11, 2001. The analysis shows that if prolonged heating caused the majority of columns of a single floor to lose their load carrying capacity, the whole tower was doomed. The structural resistance is found to be an order of magnitude less than necessary for survival, even though the most optimistic simplifying assumptions are introduced.
Introduction and Failure Scenario

The 110-story towers of the World Trade Center were designed to withstand as a whole the forces caused by a horizontal impact of a large commercial aircraft (Appendix I). So why did a total collapse occur? The cause was the dynamic consequence of the prolonged heating of the steel columns to very high temperature. The heating lowered the yield strength and caused viscoplastic (creep) buckling of the columns of the framed tube along the perimeter of the tower and of the columns in the building core. The likely scenario of failure is approximately as follows.

In stage 1 (Fig. 1), the conflagration caused by the aircraft fuel spilled into the structure causes the steel of the columns to be exposed to sustained temperatures apparently exceeding 800°C. The heating is probably accelerated by a loss of the protective thermal insulation of steel during the initial blast. At such temperatures, structural steel suffers a decrease of yield strength and exhibits significant viscoplastic deformation (i.e., creep—an increase of deformation under sustained load). This leads to creep buckling of columns (e.g., Bazant and Cedolin 1991, Sec. 9), which consequently lose their load carrying capacity (stage 2). Once more than about a half of the columns in the critical floor that is heated most suffer buckling (stage 3), the weight of the upper part of the structure above this floor can no longer be supported, and so the upper part starts falling down onto the lower part below the critical floor, gathering speed until it impacts the lower part. At that moment, the upper part has acquired an enormous kinetic energy and a significant downward velocity. The vertical impact of the mass of the upper part onto the lower part (stage 4) applies enormous vertical dynamic load on the underlying structure, far exceeding its load capacity, even if it is not heated. This causes failure of an underlying multi-floor segment of the tower (stage 4), in which the failure of the connections of the floor-carrying trusses to the columns is either accompanied or quickly followed by buckling of the core columns and overall buckling of the framed tube, with the buckles probably spanning the height of many floors (stage 5, at right), and the upper part possibly getting wedged inside an emptied lower part of the framed tube (stage 5, at left). The buckling is initially plastic but quickly leads to fracture in the plastic hinges. The part of building lying beneath is then impacted again by an even larger mass falling with a greater velocity, and the series of impacts and failures then proceeds all the way down (stage 5).

Elastic Dynamic Analysis

The details of the failure process after the decisive initial trigger that sets the upper part in motion are of course very complicated and their clarification would require large computer simulations. For example, the upper part of one tower is tilting as it begins to fall (see Appendix II); the distribution of impact forces among the underlying columns of the framed tube and the core, and between the columns and the floor-supporting trusses, is highly nonuniform; etc. However, a computer is not necessary to conclude that the collapse of the majority of columns of one floor must have caused the whole tower to collapse. This may be demonstrated by the following elementary calculations, in which simplifying assumptions most optimistic in regard to survival are made.

For a short time after the vertical impact of the upper part, but after the elastic wave generated by the vertical impact has propagated to the ground, the lower part of the structure can be approximately considered to act as an elastic spring (Fig. 2a). What is its stiffness C? It can vary greatly with the distribution of the impact forces among the framed tube columns, between these columns and those in the core, and between the columns and the trusses supporting concrete floor slabs.

For our purpose, we may assume that all the impact forces go into the columns and are distributed among them equally. Unlikely though such a distribution may be, it is nevertheless the most optimistic hypothesis to make because the resistance of the building to the impact is, for such a distribution, the highest. If the building is found to fail under a uniform distribution of the impact forces, it would fail under any other distribution. According to this hypothesis, one may estimate that C 71 GN/m (due to unavailability of precise data, an approximate design of column cross sections had to be carried out for this purpose).

The downward displacement from the initial equilibrium position to the point of maximum deflection of the lower part (considered to behave elastically) is h + (P/C) where P = maximum force applied by the upper part on the lower part and h = height of critical floor columns (= height of the initial fall of the upper part) 3.7 m. The energy dissipation, particularly that due to the inelastic deformation of columns during the initial drop of the upper part, may be neglected, i.e., the upper part may be assumed to move through distance h almost in a free fall (indeed, the energy dissipated in the columns during the fall is at most equal to 2πX the yield moment of columns, X the number of columns, which is found to be only about 12% of the gravitational potential energy release if the columns were cold, and much less than that at 800°C). So the loss of the gravitational potential energy of the upper part may be approximately equated to the strain energy of the lower part at maximum elastic deflection. This gives the equation mg[h + (P/C)] = P2/2C in which m = mass of the upper part (of North Tower) 58·106 kg, and g = gravity acceleration. The solution P = Pdyn yields the following elastically calculated overload ratio due to impact of the upper part:
http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/2065/69711858.gif (http://img525.imageshack.us/i/69711858.gif/) where P0 = mg = design load capacity. In spite of the approximate nature of this analysis, it is obvious that the elastically calculated forces in columns caused by the vertical impact of the upper part must have exceeded the load capacity of the lower part by at least an order of magnitude.

Another estimate, which gives the initial overload ratio that exists only for a small fraction of a second at the moment of impact, is http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/7041/38406701.gif (http://img176.imageshack.us/i/38406701.gif/)
where A = cross section area of building, Eef= cross section stiffness of all columns divided by A, ρ = specific mass of building per unit volume. This estimate is calculated from the elastic wave equation which yields the intensity of the step front of the downward pressure wave caused by the impact if the velocity of the upper part at the moment of impact on the critical floor is considered as the boundary condition (e.g., Bazant and Cedolin, Sec. 13.1). After the wave propagates to the ground, the former estimate is appropriate.

An important hypothesis implied in this analysis is that the impacting upper part, many floors in height, is so stiff that it does not bend nor shear on vertical planes, and that the distribution of column displacements across the tower is almost linear, like for a rigid body. If, however, the upper part spanned only a few floors (say, 3 to 6), then it could be so flexible that different column groups of the upper part could move down separately at different times, producing a series of small impacts that would not be fatal (in theory, if people could have escaped from the upper part of the tower, the bottom part of the tower could have been saved if the upper part were bombed, exploded or weakened by some "smart" structure mechanism to collapse onto the lower part gradually as a pile of rubble, instead of impacting it instantly as an almost rigid body).

Analysis of Inelastic Energy Dissipation

The inelastic deformation of the steel of the towers involves plasticity and fracture. Since we are not attempting to model the details of the real failure mechanism but seek only to prove that the towers must have collapsed and do so in the way seen (Engineering 2001, American 2001), we will here neglect fracture, even though the development of fractures is clearly discerned in the photographs of the collapse. Assuming the steel to behave plastically, with unlimited ductility, we are making the most optimistic assumption with regard to the survival capacity of the towers (in reality, the plastic hinges, especially the hinges at column connections, must have fractured, and done so at relatively small rotation, causing the load capacity to drop drastically).

The basic question to answer is: Can the fall of the upper part be arrested by energy dissipation during plastic buckling which follows the initial elastic deformation? Many plastic failure mechanisms could be considered, for example: (a) the columns of the underlying floor buckle locally (Fig. 1, stage 2); (b) the floor-supporting trusses are sheared off at the connections to the framed tube and the core columns and fall down within the tube, depriving the core columns and the framed tube of lateral support, and thus promoting buckling of the core columns and the framed tube under vertical compression (Fig. 1, stage 4, Fig. 2c); or (c) the upper part is partly wedged within the emptied framed tube of the lower part, pushing the walls of the framed tube apart (Fig. 1, stage 5). Although each of these mechanism can be shown to lead to total collapse, a combination of the last two seems more realistic (the reason: multi-story pieces of the framed tube, with nearly straight boundaries apparently corresponding to plastic hinge lines causing buckles on the framed tube wall, were photographed falling down; see, e.g., Engineering 2001, American 2001).

Regardless of the precise failure mode, experience with buckling indicates that the while many elastic buckles simultaneously coexist in an axially compressed tube, the plastic deformation localizes (because of plastic bifurcation) into a single buckle at a time (Fig. 1, stage 4; Fig. 2c), and so the buckles must fold one after another. Thus, at least one plastic hinge, and no more than four plastic hinges, per column line are needed to operate simultaneously in order to allow the upper part to continue moving down (Fig. 2b, Bazant and Cedolin 1991) (this is also true if the columns of only one floor are buckling at a time). At the end, the sum of the rotation angles θi (i = 1, 2, . . ) of the hinges on one column line, Σθi, cannot exceed 2π (Fig. 2b). This upper-bound value, which is independent of the number of floors spanned by the buckle, is used in the present calculations since, in regard to survival, it represents the most optimistic hypothesis, maximizing the plastic energy dissipation.

Calculating the dissipation per column line of the framed tube as the plastic bending moment Mp of one column (Jirasek and Bazant 2002), times the combined rotation angle θi = 2π (Fig. 2b), and multiplying this by the number of columns, one concludes that the plastically dissipated energy Wp is, optimistically, of the order of 0.5 GN m (for lack of information, certain details such as the wall thickness of steel columns, were estimated by carrying out approximate design calculations for this building).

To attain the combined rotation angle Σθi = 2π of the plastic hinges on each column line, the upper part of the building must move down by the additional distance of one buckle, which is at least one floor below the floor where the collapse started. So the additional release of gravitational potential energy Wg ≥ mg · 2h 2 X 2:1 GN m = 4.2 GN m. To arrest the fall, the kinetic energy of the upper part, which is equal to the potential energy release for a fall through the height of at least two floors, would have to be absorbed by the plastic hinge rotations of one buckle, i.e., Wg=Wp would have to be less than 1. Rather, http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/8674/71729840.gif (http://img22.imageshack.us/i/71729840.gif/)

if the energy dissipated by the columns of the critical heated floor is neglected. If the first buckle spans over n floors (3 to 10 seems likely), this ratio is about n times larger. So, even under by far the most optimistic assumptions, the plastic deformation can dissipate only a small part of the kinetic energy acquired by the upper part of building.

When the next buckle with its group of plastic hinges forms, the upper part has already traveled many floors down and has acquired a much higher kinetic energy; the percentage of the kinetic energy dissipated plastically is then of the order of 1%. The percentage continues to decrease further as the upper part moves down. If fracturing in the plastic hinges were considered, a still smaller (in fact much smaller) energy dissipation would be obtained. So the collapse of the tower must be an almost free fall. This conclusion is supported by the observation that the duration of the collapse of the tower, observed to be 9 s, was about the same as the duration of a free fall in a vacuum from the tower top (416 m above ground) to the top of the final heap of debris (about 25 m above ground), which is It further follows that the brunt of vertical impact must have gone directly into the columns of the framed tube and the core and that any delay Δt of the front of collapse of the framed tube behind the front of collapsing (‘pancaking’) floors must have been negligible, or else the duration of the total collapse of the tower, 9 s + Δt, would have been significantly longer than 9 s. However, even for a short delay Δt, the floors should have acted like a piston running down through an empty tube, which helps to explain the smoke and debris that was seen being expelled laterally from the collapsing tower.
Problems of Disaster Mitigation and Design

Designing tall buildings to withstand this sort of attack seems next to impossible. It would require a much thicker insulation of steel, with blast-resistant protective cover. Replacing the rectangular framed tube by a hardened circular monolithic tube with tiny windows might help to deflect much of the debris and fuel from an impacting aircraft sideways, but regardless of cost, who would want to work in such a building?

The problems appear to be equally severe for concrete columns because concrete heated to such temperatures undergoes explosive thermal spalling, thermal fracture and disintegration due to dehydration of hardened cement paste (e.g., Bazant and Kaplan 1996). These questions arise not only for buildings supported on many columns but also for the recent designs of tall buildings with a massive monolithic concrete core functioning as a tubular mast. These recent designs use high-strength concrete which, however, is even more susceptible to explosive thermal spalling and thermal fracture than normal concrete. The use of refractory concretes as the structural material invites many open questions (Bazant and Kaplan 1996). Special alloys or various refractory ceramic composites may of course function at such temperatures, but the cost would increase astronomically. It will nevertheless be appropriate to initiate research on materials and designs that would postpone the collapse of the building so as to extend the time available for evacuation, provide a hardened and better insulated stairwell, or even prevent collapse in the case of a less severe attack such as an off-center impact or the impact of an aircraft containing little fuel. Lessons should be drawn for improving the safety of building design in the case of lesser disasters. For instance, in view of the progressive dynamic collapse of a stack of all the floors of the Ronan Point apartments in the U.K., caused by a gas explosion in one upper floor (Levy and Salvadori 1992), the following design principle, determining the appropriate ff of redundancy, should be adopted: If only a certain judiciously specified minority of the columns or column-floor connections at one floor are removed, the mass that might fall down from the superior structure must be so small that its impact on the underlying structure would not cause dynamic overload.

Closing Comments

Once accurate computer calculations are carried out, various details of the failure mechanism will doubtless be found to differ from the present simplifying hypotheses. Errors by a factor of 2 would not be terribly surprising, but that would hardly matter since the present analysis reveals order-of-magnitude differences between the dynamic loads and the structural resistance. There have been many interesting, but intuitive, competing explanations of the collapse. To decide their viability, however, it is important to do at least some crude calculations. For example, it has been suggested that the connections of the floor-supporting trusses to the framed tube columns were not strong enough. Maybe they were not, but even if they were it would have made no difference, as shown by the present simple analysis.

The main purpose of the present analysis is to prove that the whole tower must have collapsed if the fire destroyed the load capacity of the majority of columns of a single floor. This purpose justifies the optimistic simplifying assumptions regarding survival made at the outset, which include unlimited plastic ductility (i.e., absence of fracture), uniform distribution of impact forces among the columns, disregard of various complicating details (e.g., the possibility that the failures of floor-column connections and of core columns preceded the column and tube failure, or that the upper tube got wedged inside the lower tube), etc. If the tower is found to fail under these very optimistic assumptions, it will certainly be found to fail when all the detailed mechanisms are analyzed, especially since there are order-of-magnitude differences between the dynamic loads and the structural resistance.

An important puzzle at the moment is why the adjacent 46-story building, into which no significant amount of aircraft fuel could have been injected, collapsed as well. Despite the lack of data at present, the likely explanation seems to be that high temperatures (though possibly well below 800°C) persisted on at least one floor of that building for a much longer time than specified by the current fire code provisions.
Appendix I. Elastic Dynamic Response to Aircraft Impact

A simple estimate based on the preservation of the combined momentum of the impacting Boeing 767-200 ( 179,000 kg X 550 km/h) and the momentum of the equivalent mass Meq of the interacting upper part of the tower ( 141 ·106 X v0 ) indicates that the initial average velocity v0 imparted to the upper part of the tower was only about 0.7 km/h = 0.19 m/s. Mass Meq, which is imagined as a concentrated mass mounted at the height of the impacted floor on a massless free-standing cantilever with the same bending stiffness as the tower (Fig. 2d), has been calculated from the condition that its free vibration period be equal to the first vibration period of the tower, which has been roughly estimated as T1 = 14 s (Meq 44% of the mass of the whole tower). The dynamic response after impact may be assumed to be dominated by the first free vibration mode, of period T1. Therefore, the maximum horizontal deflection w0 = v0Ti/2π 0.4 m, which is well within the design range of wind-induced elastic deflections. So it is not surprising that the aircraft impact per se damaged the tower only locally.

The World Trade Center was designed for an impact of Boeing 707-320 rather than Boeing 767-320. But note that the maximum takeoff weight of that older, less effcient, aircraft is only 15% less than that of Boeing 767-200. Besides, the maximum fuel tank capacity of that aircraft is only 4% less. These differences are well within the safety margins of design. So the observed response of the towers proves the correctness of the original dynamic design. What was not considered in design was the temperature that can develop in the ensuing fire. Here the lulling experience from 1945 might have been deceptive; that year, a two-engine bomber (B-25), flying in low clouds to Newark at about 400 km/h, hit the Empire State Building (381 m tall, built in 1932) at the 79th floor (278 m above ground)—the steel columns (much heavier than in modern buildings) suffered no significant damage, and the fire remained confined essentially to two floors only (Levy and Salvadori 1992).
Appendix II. Why Didn’t the Upper Part Pivot About Its Base?

Since the top part of the South Tower tilted (Fig. 3a), many people wonder: Why didn’t the upper part of the tower fall to the side like a tree, pivoting about the center of the critical floor? (Fig. 3b) To demonstrate why, and thus to justify our previous neglect of tilting, is an elementary exercise in dynamics. Assume the center of the floor at the base of the upper part (Fig. 3b) to move for a while neither laterally nor vertically, i.e., act as a fixed pivot. Equating the kinetic energy of the upper part rotating as a rigid body about the pivot at its base (Fig. 3c) to the loss of the gravitational potential energy of that part (which is here simpler than using the Lagrange equations of motion), we have http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/8558/84897203.gif (http://img690.imageshack.us/i/84897203.gif/) where x is the vertical coordinate (Fig. 3c). 5 This provides

http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/378/84573802.gif (http://img169.imageshack.us/i/84573802.gif/)

where θ = rotation angle of the upper part, H1 = its height, and the superposed dots denote time derivatives (Fig. 3c). Considering the dynamic equilibrium of the upper part as a free body, acted upon by distributed inertia forces and a reaction with horizontal component F at base (Fig. 3d), one obtains http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/2163/24208011.gif (http://img38.imageshack.us/i/24208011.gif/) . Evidently, the maximum horizontal reaction during pivoting occurs for θ = 45°, and so

http://img682.imageshack.us/img682/5697/40465139.gif (http://img682.imageshack.us/i/40465139.gif/)

where, for the upper part of South Tower, m 87 · 106 kg.

Could the combined plastic shear resistance Fp of the columns of one floor (Fig. 3f) sustain this horizontal reaction? For plastic shear, there would be yield hinges on top and bottom of each resisting column; Fig. 3e (again, aiming only at an optimistic upper bound on resistance, we neglect fracture). The moment equilibrium condition for the column as a free body shows that each column can at most sustain the shear force F1 = 2Mp/h1 where h1 2:5 m = effective height of column, and Mp 0:3 MN m = estimated yield bending moment of one column, if cold. Assuming that the resisting columns are only those at the sides of the framed tube normal to the axis of rotation, which number about 130, we get Fp 130F1 31 MN. So, the maximum horizontal reaction to pivoting would cause the overload ratio

http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/2696/76924080.gif (http://img412.imageshack.us/i/76924080.gif/)

if the resisting columns were cold. Since they are hot, the horizontal reaction to pivoting would exceed the shear capacity of the heated floor still much more (and far more if fracture were considered).

Since F is proportional to sin 2θ, its value becomes equal to the plastic limit when sin 2θ = 1/10.3. From this we further conclude that the reaction at the base of the upper part of South Tower must have begun shearing the columns plastically already at the inclination

http://img63.imageshack.us/img63/1286/32143376.gif (http://img63.imageshack.us/i/32143376.gif/)

The pivoting of the upper part must have started by an asymmetric failure of the columns on one side of building, but already at this very small angle the dynamic horizontal reaction at the base of the upper part must have reduced the vertical load capacity of the remaining columns of the critical floor (even if those were not heated). That must have started the downward motion of the top part of the South Tower, and afterwards its motion must have become predominantly vertical. Hence, a vertical impact of the upper part onto the lower part must have been the dominant mechanism.

Finally note that the horizontal reaction Fmax is proportional to the weight of the pivoting part. Therefore, if a pivoting motion about the center of some lower floor were considered, Fmax would be still larger.
Appendix III. Plastic Load-Shortening Diagram of Columns

Normal design deals only with initial bifurcation and small deflections, in which the diagram of load versus axial shortening of an elasto-plastic column exhibits hardening rather than softening. However, the columns of the towers suffered very large plastic deflections, for which this diagram exhibits pronounced softening. Fig. 5 shows this diagram as estimated for these towers. The diagram begins with axial shortening due to plastic yielding at load P10 = A1fi where A1 = crosssection area of one column and fy = yield limit of steel. At the axial shortening of about 3%, there is a plastic bifurcation (if imperfections are ignored). After that, undeflected states are unstable and three plastic hinges (Fig. 5) must form (if we assume, optimistically, the ends to be fixed). From 6 the condition of moment equilibrium of the half-column as a free body (Fig. 5), the axial load then is P1 = 4Mp/L sinθ, while, from the buckling geometry, the axial shortening is u = L(1 - cosθ), where L = distance between the end hinges. Eliminating plastic hinge rotation θ, we find that the plastic load-shortening diagram (including the pre- and post-bifurcation states) is given by

http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/9857/63939695.gif (http://img189.imageshack.us/i/63939695.gif/)

which defines the curve plotted in Fig. 5. This curve is an optimistic upper bound since, in reality, the plastic hinges develop fracture (e.g., Bazant and Planas 1998), and probably do so already at rather small rotations. The area under this curve represents the dissipated energy.

If it is assumed that one or several floor slabs above the critical heated floor collapsed first, then the L to be substituted in (8) is much longer than the height of columns of one floor. Consequently, P1(u) becomes much smaller (and the Euler elastic critical load for buckling may even become less than the plastic load capacity, which is far from true when L is the column height of a single floor).

It has been suggested that the inelastic deformation of columns might have ‘cushioned’ the initial descent of the upper part, making it almost static. However, this is impossible because, for gravity loading, a softening of the load-deflection diagram (Fig. 5) always causes instability and precludes static deformation (Bazant and Cedolin 1991, Chpt. 10 and 13). The downward acceleration of the upper part is ü = N[P10 - P1(u)]/m where N = number of columns and, necessarily, P10 = mg/N. This represents a differential equation for u as a function of time t, and its integration shows that the time that the upper part takes to fall through the height of one story is, for cold columns, only about 6% longer than the duration of a free fall from that height, which is 0.87 s. For hot columns, the difference is of course much less than 6%. So there is hardly any ‘cushioning’.
References

* American Media Specials, Vol. II, No. 3, September 2001, J. Lynch, ed., Boca Raton, Florida.
* Bazant, Z.P., and Cedolin, L. (1991). Stability of structures: Elastic, inelastic, fracture and damage theories. Oxford University Press, New York.
* Bazant, Z.P., and Kaplan, M.F. (1996). Concrete at high temperatures. Longman – Addison-Wesley, London.
* Bazant, Z.P., and Planas, J. (1998). Fracture and size effect of concrete and other quasibrittle materials. CRC Press, Boca Raton, Florida, and London.
* Bazant, Z.P. (2001a). ”Why did the World Trade Center collapse?” SIAM News (Society for Industrial and Applied Mathematics, M.I.T., Cambridge), 34 (8), October (submitted Sept. 14).
* Bazant, Z.P. (2001b). “Anatomy of Twin Towers Collapse.” Science and Technology (part of Hospodarske Noviny, Prague) No. 186, Sept. 25, p.1.
* Jirasek, M., and Bazant, Z.P. (2002). Inelastic Analysis of Structures. J. Wiley and Sons, London and New York.
* Levy, M., and Salvadori, M. (1992). Why buildings fall down. W.W. Norton and Co., New York.
* “Massive assault doomed towers” (editorial), Engineering News Record 247 (12), September 17, 2001, pp. 10–13.

Footnotes

1. Walter P. Murphy Professor of Civil Engineering and Materials Science, Northwestern University, Evanston Illinois 60208; z-bazant@northwestern.edu.
2. Graduate Research Assistant, Northwestern University.
3. The original version with equations (1) and (2) was originally submitted to ASCE on September 13, and an expanded version with equation (3) was submitted to ASCE on September 22. Appendix II was added on September 28, and I and III on October 5. The basic points of this paper, submitted to SIAM, M.I.T., on September 14, were incorporated in Bazant (2001a,b). Posted with updates since September 14 at http://www.civil.northwestern.edu/news, http://www3.tam.uiuc.edu/news/200109wtc/, and http://math.mit.edu/~bazant.

Captions:

* Fig. 1 Stages of collapse of the building (floor height exaggerated).
* Fig. 2 (a) Model for impact of upper part on lower part of building. (b) Plastic buckling mechanism on one column line. (c) Combination of plastic hinges creating a buckle in the tube wall. (d) Equivalent mass Meq on a massless column vibrating at the same frequency.
* Fig. 3 Pivoting of upper part of tower about its base; (a,b) with and without horizontal shear at base; (c) model for simplified analysis; (d) free-body diagram with inertia forces; (d,e) plastic horizontal shearing of columns in critical floor at base.
* Fig. 4 Scenario of tilting of upper part of building (South Tower).
* Fig. 5 (a) Plastic buckling of columns; (b) plastic hinge mechanism; (b) free-body diagram; (d) dimensionless diagram of load P1 versus axial shortening u of columns of the towers if the effects of fracture and heating are ignored; and (e) the beginning of this diagrams in an expanded horizontal scale (imperfections neglected).

[waderow]

/thread

[cog]

No, but there is a missing plane, missing passengers, a large hole in the exterior of the pentagon and eye witnesses that are living to this day.

And no pieces of a plane either.Maybe Criss Angel was involved.

[Ritch]

Just curious, did anyone read those long ass posts explaining how the buildings feel? I saw math or phsics formulas and automatically acknowledged it being over my head.

[Ritch]

And no pieces of a plane either.Maybe Criss Angel was involved.

Funny!

[cog]

So tell me how the buildings should have fallen in your opinion.

CI,they use controlled,precisely timed explosive material to knock out the supporting members at each floor.That's what the slow motion film footage looks like,doesn't it?

[buildinthaskinnys]

/thread

Another interesting theory, it even lays question as to why the hell wtc 7 fell haha. Though this is a good exlanation as to how it might of happened but simply because this uses mathematical formulas to explain itself this is supposed to completely vanquish every other theory? Still not buying it all. And what about the south tower? most of the plane (along with the fuel which is clearly seen in the video) blew out the side of the building, there is no question that the fire caused by what little fuel that was able to remain in the building would have been contained to one side of it, still seems fishy to me.

The case will remain open. :lick

[waderow]

The case will remain open. :lick


For the simple minded and gullible

That report uses math to calculate loads, stress, shear, movement etc to corroborate advanced engineering principles.

This is the whole story.

Bldg 7 is unknown due to lack of data on damages

[buildinthaskinnys]

"An important puzzle at the moment is why the adjacent 46-story building, into which no significant amount of aircraft fuel could have been injected, collapsed as well. Despite the lack of data at present, the likely explanation seems to be that high temperatures (though possibly well below 800°C) <persisted on at least one floor of that building for a much longer time than specified by the current fire code provisions.> current fire code provisions? HAHA
Appendix I. Elastic Dynamic Response to Aircraft Impact"

Now you are insulting me? haha so funny, here is quoted, a theory inside of a theory, keep em coming.The whole theory of how the first tower fell is played off now, apparently a fire of 800 degrees celcius isnt needed in this case, gee I wonder why? This report is a joke. How can you call names when you post something like this? Im done arguing, I can actually feel a little dumber after reading that whole piece of shit report. There has got to better ones than that, most of the whack jobs I have heard have more consistancy.

[buildinthaskinnys]

This thread needs to be closed, no one is going to prove anyone wrong ever, with whatever evidence one can provide, and is just going to leave everyone hating eachother more than we did before. :dftt

[BAM]

http://www.911missinglinks.com/watch-movie/


I take it you have not watched this Wade or Canadian? It has some interesting information.

[Mr.Freeze]

For the simple minded and gullible

That report uses math to calculate loads, stress, shear, movement etc to corroborate advanced engineering principles.

This is the whole story.

Bldg 7 is unknown due to lack of data on damages


i got a question for you "Bob The Builder" how much time should it take to prepare a building for a controlled demolition??
and dont tell me you dont know cuz it seems like you know everything so how much time should it take about?

[waderow]

i got a question for you "Bob The Builder" how much time should it take to prepare a building for a controlled demolition??
and dont tell me you dont know cuz it seems like you know everything so how much time should it take about?

Wtc disaster? Prob 6 months with complete building shutdown

Any old tower? 6-8 weeks with complete shut down

[Mr.Freeze]

look at this video for a minute, tell me whats wrong with it?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3E-26oVIIs

[waderow]

nothing is wrong.

pull it, means pull out the fire fighters, as the building is a lost cause

what do you think it means

[buildinthaskinnys]

Since fires are so effective at bringing down buildings why don't they use them in all demolishions?. Seems like it would save alot of money. There wouldnt even be any planning necessary, just haul in a truckload of kerosene and let'er rip perfect fall everytime. 3 for 3 so far, 100% success ratio.

[waderow]

Since fires are so effective at bringing down buildings why don't they use them in all demolishions?. Seems like it would save alot of money. There wouldnt even be any planning necessary, just haul in a truckload of kerosene and let'er rip perfect fall everytime. 3 for 3 so far, 100% success ratio.

and jet liner impacts.

get your head out of your ass. you're just being a troll so **** off unless you have something to add.

did you know that all structural steel gets coated with a fire retardant coating first so it doesnt collapse the building in a fire?

you are talking out of your ass so quit it before you look dumber ;)

[BAM]

and jet liner impacts.

get your head out of your ass. you're just being a troll so **** off unless you have something to add.

did you know that all structural steel gets coated with a fire retardant coating first so it doesnt collapse the building in a fire?

you are talking out of your ass so quit it before you look dumber ;)

Hey Wade..

Have you watched this ****ing documentary yet?

http://www.911missinglinks.com/watch-movie/

You might learn something you don't know.

[buildinthaskinnys]

and jet liner impacts.
get your head out of your ass. you're just being a troll so **** off unless you have something to add.
did you know that all structural steel gets coated with a fire retardant coating first so it doesnt collapse the building in a fire?
you are talking out of your ass so quit it before you look dumber ;)

Yah and the world trade centers were built to withstand impacts from airliners too, apparently not the combination of fires and impacts, amazing that the experts never anticipated a plane full of fuel to blow up and start a fire afer crashing into the building though huh? Hmm, wait a tic!!, wtc 7 wasnt directly hit by a plane!, I dont know whos going to explain that one. :ne Keep hurling the insults!:laugh mwah wahwah

[waderow]

Hey Wade..

Have you watched this ****ing documentary yet?


You might learn something you don't know.

I have seen so much of this bullshit that it turns my stomach... just a bunck of hippes asking dumb questions like build the skinnys. Ummmmm, but the building is designed for jet impacts...so it HAD to be bush and the cia man.... <insert toking sound here>


these videos do not back up anything they say, but I will try to watch it tomorrow for a laugh

[CanadianIron]

Yah and the world trade centers were built to withstand impacts from airliners too, apparently not the combination of fires and impacts, amazing that the experts never anticipated a plane full of fuel to blow up and start a fire afer crashing into the building though huh? Hmm, wait a tic!!, wtc 7 wasnt directly hit by a plane!, I dont know whos going to explain that one. :ne Keep hurling the insults!:laugh mwah wahwah



They were not built to withstand impacts from fully loaded airliners. They were built to withstand smaller aircraft impacts. Obviously they didnt design the buildings to take on a fully loaded 747, a 747 would have cut them in half. Likewise you wouldnt expect a cesna to bring them down either. No one can really build anything to sustain an impact from an object of unknown size, proportion, density and cargo.

As for WTC7


As the North Tower collapsed on September 11, 2001, heavy debris hit 7 World Trade Center, causing damage to the south face of the building.[4] The bottom portion of the building's south face was damaged by debris, including damage to the southwest corner from the 8th to 18th floors, a large vertical gash on the center-bottom extending at least ten floors, and other damage as high as the 18th floor.[4] The building was equipped with a sprinkler system, but had many single-point vulnerabilities for failure: the sprinkler system required manual initiation of the electrical fire pumps, rather than being a fully automatic system; the floor-level controls had a single connection to the sprinkler water riser; and the sprinkler system required some power for the fire pump to deliver water. Also, water pressure was low, with little or no water to feed sprinklers.[27][28]

After the North Tower collapsed, some firefighters entered 7 World Trade Center to search the building. They attempted to extinguish small pockets of fire, but low water pressure hindered their efforts.[29] A massive fire burned into the afternoon on the 11th and 12th floors of 7 World Trade Center, the flames visible on the east side of the building.[30][31] During the afternoon, fire was also seen on floors 6–10, 13–14, 19–22, and 29–30.[4] In particular, the fires on floors 7 through 9 and 11 through 13 continued to burn out of control during the afternoon.[32] At approximately 2:00 p.m., firefighters noticed a bulge in the southwest corner of 7 World Trade Center between the 10th and 13th floors, a sign that the building was unstable and might collapse.[33] During the afternoon, firefighters also heard creaking sounds coming from the building.[34] Around 3:30 pm FDNY Chief Daniel Nigro decided to halt rescue operations, surface removal, and searches along the surface of the debris near 7 World Trade Center and evacuate the area due to concerns for the safety of personnel.[35] At 5:20:33 p.m. EDT on September 11, 2001, 7 World Trade Center started to collapse, with the crumble of the east mechanical penthouse, while at 5:21:10 p.m. EDT the entire building collapsed completely[1]. There were no casualties associated with the collapse.

In May 2002, the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) issued a report on the collapse based on a preliminary investigation conducted jointly with the Structural Engineering Institute of the American Society of Civil Engineers under leadership of Dr. W. Gene Corley, P.E. FEMA made preliminary findings that the collapse was not primarily caused by actual impact damage from the collapse of 1 WTC and 2 WTC but by fires on multiple stories ignited by debris from the other two towers that continued unabated due to lack of water for sprinklers or manual firefighting. According to FEMA, structural elements were exposed to high temperatures for a sufficient period of time to reduce their strength to the point of collapse[1]; nevertheless, it has since been determined that the fires burned out in 20 minutes at any given location as they moved from point to point.[15]


Plan view of collapse progression, with structural failure initiating on lower floors, on the east side of the building and vertical progression up to the east mechanical penthouseThe report did not reach conclusions about the cause of the collapse and called for further investigation:

Loss of structural integrity was likely a result of weakening caused by fires on the 5th to 7th floors. The specifics of the fires in WTC 7 and how they caused the building to collapse remain unknown at this time. Although the total diesel fuel on the premises contained massive potential energy, the best hypothesis has only a low probability of occurrence. Further research, investigation, and analyses are needed to resolve this issue. [Ch. 5, p. 31.][1]

In response to FEMA's concerns, the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) was authorized to lead an investigation into the structural failure and collapse of the World Trade Center twin towers and 7 World Trade Center.[36] The investigation, led by Dr S. Shyam Sunder, drew not only upon in-house technical expertise, but also upon the knowledge of several outside private institutions, including the Structural Engineering Institute of the American Society of Civil Engineers (SEI/ASCE), the Society of Fire Protection Engineers (SFPE), the National Fire Protection Association (NFPA), the American Institute of Steel Construction (AISC), the Council on Tall Buildings and Urban Habitat (CTBUH), and the Structural Engineers Association of New York (SEAoNY).[37]

The bulk of the investigation of 7 World Trade Center was delayed until after reports were completed on the collapse of the World Trade Center twin towers.[32] In the meantime, NIST provided a preliminary report about 7 World Trade Center in June 2004, and since then has released occasional updates on the investigation.[4] According to NIST, the investigation of 7 World Trade Center has been delayed for a number of reasons, including that NIST staff who had been working on 7 World Trade Center were assigned full-time from June 2004 to September 2005 to work on the investigation of the collapse of the twin towers.[38] In June 2007, Shyam Sunder explained, "We are proceeding as quickly as possible while rigorously testing and evaluating a wide range of scenarios to reach the most definitive conclusion possible. The 7 WTC investigation is in some respects just as challenging, if not more so, than the study of the towers. However, the current study does benefit greatly from the significant technological advances achieved and lessons learned from our work on the towers."[39]


Few photos and video clips exist that show the damage sustained to south face of 7 World Trade Center on 9/11. From a news helicopter, ABC News captured footage of the south face of 7 World Trade Center, including a glimpse of a gash, extending approximately 10 stories.In its progress report, NIST released a video and still-photo analysis of 7 World Trade Center before its collapse that appears to indicate a greater degree of structural damage from falling debris than originally assumed by FEMA. Specifically, NIST's interim report on 7 World Trade Center displays photographs of the southwest facade of the building that show it to have significant damage. The report also highlights a 10-story gash in the center of the south facade, toward the bottom, extending approximately a quarter of the way into the interior.[4][40] A unique aspect of the design of 7 World Trade Center was that each outer structural column was responsible for supporting 2,000 sq ft (186 m²) of floor space, suggesting that the simultaneous removal of a number of columns severely compromised the structure's integrity.[41] Consistent with this theory, news footage shows cracking and bowing of the building's east wall immediately before the collapse, which began at the penthouse floors.[4] In video of the collapse, taken from the north by CBS News and other news media, the first visible sign of collapse is movement in the east penthouse 8.2 seconds before the north wall began to collapse, which took at least another 7 seconds.[4][42]

The working hypothesis, released in the June 2004 progress report and reiterated in a June 2007 status update, was that an initial failure in a critical column occurred below the 13th floor, caused by damage from fire and/or debris from the collapse of the two main towers. The collapse progressed vertically up to the east mechanical penthouse. The interior structure was unable to handle the redistributed load, resulting in horizontal progression of the failure across lower floors, particularly the 5th to 7th floors. This resulted in "a disproportionate collapse of the entire structure."[4][39][43]

On August 21, 2008, NIST released its draft report on the causes of the collapse of 7 World Trade Center, beginning a period for public comments.[32] In its investigation, NIST utilized ANSYS to model events leading up to collapse initiation and LS-DYNA models to simulate the global response to the initiating events.[44] NIST determined that diesel fuel did not play an important role, nor did the structural damage from the collapse of the twin towers. But the lack of water to fight the fire was an important factor. The fires burned out of control during the afternoon, including on floor 13, where a critical interior column buckled. With the buckling of that column, adjacent columns also failed along with the floor structure above. This triggered a vertical progression of floor failures to the roof. The collapse then progressed east-to-west across the structure, and ultimately the entire structure collapsed. The fires, fueled by office contents, along with the lack of water, were the key reasons for the collapse.[45]


BMCC's Fiterman Hall was heavily damaged from the collapse of 7 World Trade Center, and is undergoing deconstruction.When 7 World Trade Center collapsed, debris caused substantial damage and contamination to the Borough of Manhattan Community College's Fiterman Hall building, located adjacent at 30 West Broadway, to the extent that the building was not salvageable. In August 2007, Fiterman Hall was scheduled for deconstruction.[46] A revised plan called for demolition in 2009 and completion of the new Fiterman Hall in 2012, at a cost of $325 million.[47][48] The adjacent Verizon Building, an art deco building constructed in 1926, had extensive damage to its east facade from the collapse of 7 World Trade Center, though it was able to be restored at a cost of US$1.4 billion.[49]

7 World Trade Center housed SEC files relating to numerous Wall Street investigations, as well as other federal investigative files. All the files for approximately 3,000 to 4,000 SEC cases were destroyed. While some were backed up in other places, others were not, especially those classified as confidential.[50] Files relating Citigroup to the WorldCom scandal were lost.[51] The Equal Employment Opportunity Commission estimates over 10,000 cases will be affected.[52] The Secret Service had its largest field office, with more than 200 employees, in WTC 7 and lost investigative files. Says one agent: “All the evidence that we stored at 7 World Trade, in all our cases, went down with the building.”[53]

The collapse of 7 World Trade Center is remarkable because it was the first known instance of a tall building collapsing primarily as a result of uncontrolled fires.[54]

World Trade Center controlled demolition conspiracy theories say that the building collapses on September 11, including that of building seven, were the result of controlled demolition.[55][56][57][58] The draft NIST report rejected this hypothesis, as the window breakages and blast sound that would have occurred if explosives were used were not observed.[59] The use of thermate instead of explosives is discarded by NIST on the basis that it is unlikely the necessary 100 pounds of thermate for each steel column could have been planted without being discovered.[60]


Another thing to concider, no one was killed during the collapse of WTC7, so either everyone in the area knew about pre-install explosives, or they could tell there was a real possibility it could come down on its own.




Hayden: Yeah. There was enough there and we were marking off. There were a lot of damaged apparatus there that were covered. We tried to get searches in those areas. By now, this is going on into the afternoon, and we were concerned about additional collapse, not only of the Marriott, because there was a good portion of the Marriott still standing, but also we were pretty sure that 7 World Trade Center would collapse. Early on, we saw a bulge in the southwest corner between floors 10 and 13, and we had put a transit on that and we were pretty sure she was going to collapse. You actually could see there was a visible bulge, it ran up about three floors. It came down about 5 o�clock in the afternoon, but by about 2 o�clock in the afternoon we realized this thing was going to collapse.

[buildinthaskinnys]

I have seen so much of this bullshit that it turns my stomach... just a bunck of hippes asking dumb questions like build the skinnys. Ummmmm, but the building is designed for jet impacts...so it HAD to be bush and the cia man.... <insert toking sound here>
these videos do not back up anything they say, but I will try to watch it tomorrow for a laugh

Hey!! When did I ever say I knew who did it? now you are talking out of your ass! Do you work for the NSA? because you seem to take all these questions pretty seriously, why can people not question things, why is that so bad? And why are we so crazy but at the sametime you are against the gun registry laws, why do you care? What reasoning is behind that? And did you know that hitler enforced a gun registry before world war 2 happened? ;) I think you are a conspiracy theorist yourself, just about other things, and you wont admit it.

[rickyboy36]

Hey CI,do you believe what was said about the jews being informed ahead of time,and that no jews were inside the building when it collapsed?

I have no knowledge of the rumors going around except for this one.Logically i would believe what you and waderow are saying,but then again you never ****ing know with the US government.

[CanadianIron]

Hey Wade..

Have you watched this ****ing documentary yet?


You might learn something you don't know.

I've watched all these documentarys, I was originally taken by them and thought it was crazy. But after hearing the original theories all get debunked and then having watching the theorists come up with a bunch of new shit, I decided it was likely all bullshit. Fun to imagine, but a fairy tail. We'd all like to think there are cloaked figures running our countries with a certain level of control but it just aint true.

[CanadianIron]

Hey CI,do you believe what was said about the jews being informed ahead of time,and that no jews were inside the building when it collapsed?

I have no knowledge of the rumors going around except for this one.Logically i would believe what you and waderow are saying,but then again you never ****ing know with the US government.

They estimate between 400-700 jews were killed during 9/11.


In order to determine how many Jewish victims appeared on the list of 1,800, I used the following search terms: Jew, Jewish, Temple, Synagogue, Israel and Mitzvah.

I then examined the resulting list of names and removed individuals who had been identified as Jewish in error.

I then search the list for the following terms: Catholic, Christian, Buddhist, Hindu and Muslim.

250 named victims resulted from using my search terms, i.e. 250 victims out of 1800 can be identified by religious affiliation.

18% of the named victims were Jewish.

82% of the named victims were not Jewish.

If we multiply 1800 by .18, we find that 324 of the listed in the New York Times were probably Jewish.

This partially confirms the information provided by the United States Department of State.

“A total of 2,071 occupants of the World Trade Center died on September 11, among the 2,749 victims of the WTC attacks. According to an article in the October 11, 2001, Wall Street Journal, roughly 1,700 people had listed the religion of a person missing in the WTC attacks; approximately 10% were Jewish. A later article, in the September 5, 2002, Jewish Week, states, “based on the list of names, biographical information compiled by The New York Times, and information from records at the Medical Examiner’s Office, there were at least 400 victims either confirmed or strongly believed to be Jewish.” This would be approximately 15% of the total victims of the WTC attacks. A partial list of 390 Cantor Fitzgerald employees who died (out of 658 in the company) lists 49 Jewish memorial services, which is between 12% and 13%.”



I dont know about you guys, but all the people I know have a hard time keeping a secret for more than a day. These theories rely on hundreds of individuals keeping this "secret" for the rest of their lives. We dont have hordes of people coming forward to tell their stories anonomously about how the CIA threatened to kill them if they told anyone about the orchistrate attack.

[BAM]

I have seen so much of this bullshit that it turns my stomach...

I've watched all these documentarys,
Have you watched this one in particular?
-------------------->http://www.911missinglinks.com/watch-movie/ <--------------------------------------------------
...because I'd really like to discuss the facts from this video, but if you are too closed minded to even explore the evidence, then I guess you can
continue to live in your comfortable version of reality, as flawed as it is.


They estimate between 400-700 jews were killed during 9/11.





I call Bullshit on that.

[waderow]

They estimate between 400-700 jews were killed during 9/11.




I dont know about you guys, but all the people I know have a hard time keeping a secret for more than a day. These theories rely on hundreds of individuals keeping this "secret" for the rest of their lives. We dont have hordes of people coming forward to tell their stories anonomously about how the CIA threatened to kill them if they told anyone about the orchistrate attack.

1000's. the engineering alone on an attack like this would take stantec 6 months and 100 engineers. the demo team would normally take probably 6 months for this full time with 100 men, so to do it clandestine, you would have to sneak 1000 men with tools in every night... lol laughable, i know, but entertain the idiots for a moment. then you would have the snakes in washington who were apparently in on the attack...each and every one would have EVERYTHING to gain by being a whistle blower. ****, theyd be the national hero. the next president. who knows. but not a peep.

[Mr.Freeze]

nothing is wrong.

pull it, means pull out the fire fighters, as the building is a lost cause

what do you think it means

lol, nothing at all!
so lets keep this going, so if the building 7 was not a controlled demolition then i would realy like you explain to me how the hell did this building collapse??

[waderow]

Bullshit

how on earth could you know.... because some fabricated documentary says they were behind it? fuuuuuck bam are you that gullible?

[waderow]

lol, nothing at all!
so lets keep this going, so if the building 7 was not a controlled demolition then i would realy like you explain to me how the hell did this building collapse??

CI just did.
it was damaged and burned down essentially

now you explain to me how the antichrist bush and the jews and the spies and the cia and aliens pulled this off

[CanadianIron]

Bullshit

So where are they hiding the jews who were supposed to be in the towers when they fell?

I'll watch the video until I come across a total lie, then I stop watching.

[buildinthaskinnys]

"They were not built to withstand impacts from fully loaded airliners. They were built to withstand smaller aircraft impacts. Obviously they didnt design the buildings to take on a fully loaded 747, a 747 would have cut them in half. Likewise you wouldnt expect a cesna to bring them down either. No one can really build anything to sustain an impact from an object of unknown size, proportion, density and cargo. "

First off CI the trade centers were designed to withstand an impact of a large airliner, apparently by a boeing 707, which only about 15% lighter than a 767.

wtc7,
as far as this goes most everyone in the area from all sides were evacuated, and wtc 7 was damaged a little, on the side, how this building fell straight down well thats where the theorys come from, who the hell knows. If one looks into the 9/11 commision report you will begin to understand why there are so many conspiracy theorys that have grown out of this, some stinky shit, something has been covered up. The fact that the investigators that went out to ground zero werent allowed full access to the main structural support beams comes off wrong and the fact that there was such a huge hurry to clean everything up and get it the hell out of dodge seems suspicious.

[waderow]

"They were not built to withstand impacts from fully loaded airliners. They were built to withstand smaller aircraft impacts. Obviously they didnt design the buildings to take on a fully loaded 747, a 747 would have cut them in half. Likewise you wouldnt expect a cesna to bring them down either. No one can really build anything to sustain an impact from an object of unknown size, proportion, density and cargo. "

First off CI the trade centers were designed to withstand an impact of a large airliner, apparently by a boeing 707, which only about 15% lighter than a 767.

wtc7,
as far as this goes most everyone in the area from all sides were evacuated, and wtc 7 was damaged a little, on the side, how this building fell straight down well thats where the theorys come from, who the hell knows. If one looks into the 9/11 commision report you will begin to understand why there are so many conspiracy theorys that have grown out of this, some stinky shit, something has been covered up. The fact that the investigators that went out to ground zero werent allowed full access to the main structural support beams comes off wrong and the fact that there was such a huge hurry to clean everything up and get it the hell out of dodge seems suspicious.

newsflash. the building survived the impact... and bld 7 burned all day

[BAM]

how on earth could you know.... because some fabricated documentary says they were behind it? fuuuuuck bam are you that gullible?

but the information that helped forge your opinion is based on what?

Seriously, wtf do you base your strong opinion on? CNN? or one of the other jew owned media?

I ask this question to both Wade and canadian.

[waderow]

but the information that helped forge your opinion is based on what?

Seriously, wtf do you base your strong opinion on?

logic

[CanadianIron]

^ what he said.

There is nothing questionable IMO about what happened on 9/11. All events were possible and plausible. Most of the conspiracy theories rely on unlikely human behavior and million to one odds.

[waderow]

^ what he said.

There is nothing questionable IMO about what happened on 9/11. All events were possible and plausible. Most of the conspiracy theories rely on unlikely human behavior and million to one odds.

with a motive that is illogical

[BAM]

logic

Its laughable that a pissant like you thinks you know enough about what happens at the upper echelon of society to decide what is logical; and by pissant, I do not meant to insult you..

In the big scheme of things, pissant is your role and mine.

[CanadianIron]

"They were not built to withstand impacts from fully loaded airliners. They were built to withstand smaller aircraft impacts. Obviously they didnt design the buildings to take on a fully loaded 747, a 747 would have cut them in half. Likewise you wouldnt expect a cesna to bring them down either. No one can really build anything to sustain an impact from an object of unknown size, proportion, density and cargo. "

First off CI the trade centers were designed to withstand an impact of a large airliner, apparently by a boeing 707, which only about 15% lighter than a 767.

wtc7,
as far as this goes most everyone in the area from all sides were evacuated, and wtc 7 was damaged a little, on the side, how this building fell straight down well thats where the theorys come from, who the hell knows. If one looks into the 9/11 commision report you will begin to understand why there are so many conspiracy theorys that have grown out of this, some stinky shit, something has been covered up. The fact that the investigators that went out to ground zero werent allowed full access to the main structural support beams comes off wrong and the fact that there was such a huge hurry to clean everything up and get it the hell out of dodge seems suspicious.


It took months to clean up and the wreckage was not guarded by a security force. No one cared at the time, because none of these conspiracy theories existed. If everyone involved at the time, knew what happened, why would they waste their time taking pictures of rubble.

[CanadianIron]

So what do you base your logic on then?

Logic... look it up.. www.websters.com your question makes no sense. He bases his opinion on logic. The logical explanation, the explanation that is most likely to happen, the one that makes the most sense. The most likely, logical explanation. The one that probably happened.

[waderow]

you guys realize how easy it would have been to plant wmd's in iraq?

didnt happen though. why not? the same govt apparently orchestrated the feat of all human existence in a superbowl of a conspiracy, and managed to keep it quiet for nearly a decade....

why not have a little ricin. anthrax. mustard gas. maybe some enriched uranium if htey could get some that was untraceable. it would have been a breeze compared to 9-11 and then wed still be stealing oil and kicking ass for the jews.

you guys need to get off the weed

[BAM]

Logic... look it up.. www.websters.com your question makes no sense. He bases his opinion on logic. The logical explanation, the explanation that is most likely to happen, the one that makes the most sense. The most likely, logical explanation. The one that probably happened.

Yeah but logic has to be based on something.

So what do you base your logic on?

What do you base your common sense on in this situation?

Furthermore, what do you base your reality on?

So I take it you know what goes on at the upper levels of government and aristocracy and in the world or even Israel? are you a mossad agent? Cia? like how the heck do you now what is logical at that level of society? Do you even know why/how israel was re-created?

[buildinthaskinnys]

newsflash. the building survived the impact... and bld 7 burned all day

Did I say it didnt? In any case thats not what I meant, I was just relaying the information that was provided by the abstract that you submitted.

[buildinthaskinnys]

you guys realize how easy it would have been to plant wmd's in iraq?

didnt happen though. why not? the same govt apparently orchestrated the feat of all human existence in a superbowl of a conspiracy, and managed to keep it quiet for nearly a decade....

why not have a little ricin. anthrax. mustard gas. maybe some enriched uranium if htey could get some that was untraceable. it would have been a breeze compared to 9-11 and then wed still be stealing oil and kicking ass for the jews.

you guys need to get off the weed

well if they wanted too, but its doubtfull that it was he same guys involved isnt it? come on now dude there has to be some mystery in the world right?

[RagingRandy]

the engineering alone on an attack like this would take stantec 6 months and 100 engineers. the demo team would normally take probably 6 months for this full time with 100 men, so to do it clandestine, you would have to sneak 1000 men with tools in every night... lol laughable,

But logic would dictate that a few barely train terrorists slammed a plane into one of the largest buildings in the world and it drops straight down into its own footprint. O wait that happened twice. :rolleyes:

[cog]

1000's. the engineering alone on an attack like this would take stantec 6 months and 100 engineers. the demo team would normally take probably 6 months for this full time with 100 men, so to do it clandestine, you would have to sneak 1000 men with tools in every night... lol laughable, i know, but entertain the idiots for a moment. then you would have the snakes in washington who were apparently in on the attack...each and every one would have EVERYTHING to gain by being a whistle blower. ****, theyd be the national hero. the next president. who knows. but not a peep.

I can't see any reason why all the charges couldn't be controlled by radio.As for keeping secrets,perhaps you remember that approx 10,000 Brits were involved in Enigma,nobody said a word for 30 years.

[RagingRandy]

What reports said it was shot down?

I personally buy the idea that flight 93 was high jacked and the passengers got wind of the other attacks and the high jackers took it into the ground.

Ever tried your cell phone in a plane.. I have.. and it will work during certain periods in your flight. A plane flies 5 miles high, with a direct line of sight to pretty much every cell tower below. If you dont believe me, turn on your cell phone and watch the bars the next time you're on a flight.

I have tried using a cell phone on a plane in flight on multiple occasions and it has yet to get a signal.

[waderow]

I can't see any reason why all the charges couldn't be controlled by radio.As for keeping secrets,perhaps you remember that approx 10,000 Brits were involved in Enigma,nobody said a word for 30 years.

10000 charges bro.

enigma.... different times

[waderow]

But logic would dictate that a few barely train terrorists slammed a plane into one of the largest buildings in the world and it drops straight down into its own footprint. O wait that happened twice. :rolleyes:

yes. as a matter of fact. much more plausible then clandestine demo teams doing 100000 manhours of work completely undetected by a 1000000 square foot office buildings tenants or security, and hundreds or thousands of engineers, planners, and politicians and agents not blowing the whistle....

come on... jesus you liberals are phucked

[cog]

10000 charges bro.

enigma.... different times

I still can't see any good reason those charges couldn't be synced by radio signals.

[waderow]

I still can't see any good reason those charges couldn't be synced by radio signals.

okay, so you use buildthe skinnys alien explosive, and your magic circuitry to time 10000 charges by radio remote leaving NOT ONE EFFIN CHARGE UNDETONATED.

The hardest part isnt the demo, it is placing the charges undetected.

you need to cut steel beams
core concrete
remove drywall and walls to expose columns
remove ceilings to expose beams and trusses
repair drywall and ceilings before anyone notices (taping and mudding is a 3 day job plus paint)
noise
dust


it is just not possible

[cog]

okay, so you use buildthe skinnys alien explosive, and your magic circuitry to time 10000 charges by radio remote leaving NOT ONE EFFIN CHARGE UNDETONATED.

The hardest part isnt the demo, it is placing the charges undetected.

you need to cut steel beams
core concrete
remove drywall and walls to expose columns
remove ceilings to expose beams and trusses
repair drywall and ceilings before anyone notices (taping and mudding is a 3 day job plus paint)
noise
dust


it is just not possible
I used to work in radio comm back in the 80's,with todays digital communications I can't see any prob timing things.Placing the charges,I guess we would have to examine the blueprints to see if it's possible.It does look like charges going off in some of those videos...

[BAM]

The buildings falling the way they did is small potatos considering the rest of the evidence.

[waderow]

I used to work in radio comm back in the 80's,with todays digital communications I can't see any prob timing things.Placing the charges,I guess we would have to examine the blueprints to see if it's possible.It does look like charges going off in some of those videos...

i didnt see anything remotely close

[Ritch]

okay, so you use buildthe skinnys alien explosive, and your magic circuitry to time 10000 charges by radio remote leaving NOT ONE EFFIN CHARGE UNDETONATED.

The hardest part isnt the demo, it is placing the charges undetected.

you need to cut steel beams
core concrete
remove drywall and walls to expose columns
remove ceilings to expose beams and trusses
repair drywall and ceilings before anyone notices (taping and mudding is a 3 day job plus paint)
noise
dust


it is just not possible

I know 2 guys who could do it.

1- Mc Gyver
2- Micheal from prison break

C`mon Wade, aren`t you thinking right?

[BAM]

^^^ What about the Zohan?

[Ritch]

^^^ Oh shit, how can I forget that guy? They should make a sequel to that movie, funny stuff...

Or maybe the whole fiasco was planned by zohan? He does have a beard after all...

What do you think Wade?

[MMASTAR]

http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/

[waderow]

^^^ Oh shit, how can I forget that guy? They should make a sequel to that movie, funny stuff...

Or maybe the whole fiasco was planned by zohan? He does have a beard after all...

What do you think Wade?

zohan
chuck norris
arny

otherwise...no way

[buildinthaskinnys]

The J.L Hudson Department Store, 439 ft tall, 2.2 million square feet.

Took 12 people twenty four days in total to place all the charges. This was a controlled demolition. Did someone mention that it would take thousands of people(my bad it was 100 men 6 months) a year to bring down the world trade centers? Can someone explain why so much longer? My calculations would be 24 people in 24 days, being that the world trade centers were twice the size sq footage wise as the Hudsons building, of course this is pretty rough though, considering that the older girder and frame style buildings, would make placing the charges more time consuming.

This is a little buffered, I should add , they had contractors come in and clean out the building, the main concern was asbestos removal, this took 3 months to complete.

[waderow]

The J.L Hudson Department Store, 439 ft tall, 2.2 million square feet.

Took 12 people twenty four days in total to place all the charges. This was a controlled demolition. Did someone mention that it would take thousands of people(my bad it was 100 men 6 months) a year to bring down the world trade centers? Can someone explain why so much longer? My calculations would be 24 people in 24 days, being that the world trade centers were twice the size sq footage wise as the Hudsons building, of course this is pretty rough though, considering that the older girder and frame style buildings, would make placing the charges more time consuming.

This is a little buffered, I should add , they had contractors come in and clean out the building, the main concern was asbestos removal, this took 3 months to complete.

to remove and reset drywall and ceilings, and clean up nightly, and **** around like that and have limited time to not have staff in the building...easily
plus, we are talking the bay bldg would have been gutted for the most part, and not an operating office bld with 24/7 security and cleaning staff
bay was less than half as high. was only one bldg. and the implosion could have explosive evidence visually and forensically.

wtc towers were over 8million square feet. plus the bldg 7, so learn some math

"older girder style bldgs' would make it easier? you dont even know what youre talking about. the wtc was built with steel and concrete. as I am sure the bay bld was. you need to make cuts into the steel everywhere. you need to core in charges into concrete. its not about sticking a bomb to a steel "girder"

the time factor is just one part, it is impossible due to the clandestine aspect.

you have no clue so let it rest already

[kloan]

The J.L Hudson Department Store, 439 ft tall, 2.2 million square feet.

Took 12 people twenty four days in total to place all the charges. This was a controlled demolition. Did someone mention that it would take thousands of people(my bad it was 100 men 6 months) a year to bring down the world trade centers? Can someone explain why so much longer? My calculations would be 24 people in 24 days, being that the world trade centers were twice the size sq footage wise as the Hudsons building, of course this is pretty rough though, considering that the older girder and frame style buildings, would make placing the charges more time consuming.

This is a little buffered, I should add , they had contractors come in and clean out the building, the main concern was asbestos removal, this took 3 months to complete.

Different kind of building man. Look at it, it's wider than it is tall, it's concrete (and steel?).

The world trade towers were frickin huge!! Very, very, VERY tall steel structures. No engineer could fathom or calculate enough to protect them from that kind of carnage.

I honestly don't buy into this BS about it being rigged to blow. I haven't yet read anything that would even remotely convince me of that.

[waderow]

Different kind of building man. Look at it, it's wider than it is tall, it's concrete (and steel?).

The world trade towers were frickin huge!! Very, very, VERY tall steel structures. No engineer could fathom or calculate enough to protect them from that kind of carnage.

I honestly don't buy into this BS about it being rigged to blow. I haven't yet read anything that would even remotely convince me of that.

it just isnt possible bro. Not remotely possible.

[cog]

Anything is possible.The point is once you discover them lying or being deceptive,why believe anything else they have to say?

[natenator]

this thread seems foolish. Anyone who thinks those buildings fell down because of some conspiracy then I have some land I'd like to sell you...

[natenator]

this looks pretty legit to me:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3RpNSF-er88&feature=channel

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iyBCn0TPepE

[waderow]

Anything is possible.The point is once you discover them lying or being deceptive,why believe anything else they have to say?

lol. some feats are not possible cog. come on.


Just for one moments, lets agree that it is, and there is magical detonators, and alien explosives form mars, and super covert contractors to place them without discovery, and discreet engineers to design the implosion and hundreds of willing families to claim their loved ones were on these remote controlled planes, and they managed to pull it off.

There would still be 1000's of people involved.

Clinton couldnt get a blow job from a slut in his office with out getting busted.

How in the hell are they going to keep it a secret? kill everyone after? LOL even the politicians involved would blow the whistle and become americas hero. You cant kill everyone.

It is not possible, and like nate says, anyone who is gullible enough to think so, well, send me money..... you really shouldnt have it

[CanadianIron]

You can tell by watching the towers fall that there were no explosives in the buildings. You could watch the collapse take place in the floors where the plane hit... then the upper portion of the tower kicks to the side and hammers down the rest of the building.

Unless they placed the charges right where the planes hit and had some kind of technology to protect the charges from a molten 767 coming at them at 500mph, its obvious b.s, anyone with a basic understanding of physics knows whats going on.

[buildinthaskinnys]

to remove and reset drywall and ceilings, and clean up nightly, and **** around like that and have limited time to not have staff in the building...easily
plus, we are talking the bay bldg would have been gutted for the most part, and not an operating office bld with 24/7 security and cleaning staff
bay was less than half as high. was only one bldg. and the implosion could have explosive evidence visually and forensically.

wtc towers were over 8million square feet. plus the bldg 7, so learn some math Was I talking about all of them put together? I was talking about one building and it is half the size of one of the trade centers.

"older girder style bldgs' would make it easier? you dont even know what youre talking about. the wtc was built with steel and concrete. as I am sure the bay bld was. you need to make cuts into the steel everywhere. you need to core in charges into concrete. its not about sticking a bomb to a steel "girder"

The word "girder" was a typo, You pointed it out but Im surprised you never corrected me. There is literally no such thing as a girder-style building and I know that, a girder is just another name for a beam

the time factor is just one part, it is impossible due to the clandestine aspect.

you have no clue so let it rest already

Well but really, I guess Im out of my league folks, Waderow congratulations to you sir.

[waderow]

Well but really, I guess Im out of my league folks, Waderow congratulations to you sir.

thank you.

[buildinthaskinnys]

thank you.

Congratulations on your new baby. (thats what I was refering to, I forgot to comment on that, sorry)

Oh and the part about being out of my league, well, that was sarcasm. haha.

[CanadianIron]

Atleast you thought it was sarcasm...

[buildinthaskinnys]

Atleast you thought it was sarcasm...

Explain to me the part where it was proved that no one demo'ed the building where is this epic sentence? Dude you havent even hardly done any research on the subject and yet you seem to think you can tell me I am wrong based off the reasoning that it isnt plausible. Look this up this is all true, the ground zero investigation crew wasnt allowed full access to the central support beams because they were told due to safety reasons and alot of other bs, they were allowed to look at select pieces before they were subsecuently sold and shipped to china, this really happened thats why all these theorys come about, they are not based out of thin air. Is this proof that someone demolished the building? Of course not, but to reckon that it would be impossible is wrong, nothing is impossible. Lets just leave it at that, I have came up with my ideas and thoughts just as you have from my own research and experience, why I say that its not impossible is my own opinion and nothing more, its not going to change anything if you change your mind.

[waderow]

buildtheskinnys,
I think you are out to lunch by a mile with your ideas, but I will admit, I love your avatar, and only wish cheesesteak had a better camer so his resolution was higher, makin git that much better

[waderow]

Explain to me the part where it was proved that no one demo'ed the building where is this epic sentence? Dude you havent even hardly done any research on the subject and yet you seem to think you can tell me I am wrong based off the reasoning that it isnt plausible. Look this up this is all true, the ground zero investigation crew wasnt allowed full access to the central support beams because they were told due to safety reasons and alot of other bs, they were allowed to look at select pieces before they were subsecuently sold and shipped to china, this really happened thats why all these theorys come about, they are not based out of thin air. Is this proof that someone demolished the building? Of course not, but to reckon that it would be impossible is wrong, nothing is impossible. Lets just leave it at that, I have came up with my ideas and thoughts just as you have from my own research and experience, why I say that its not impossible is my own opinion and nothing more, its not going to change anything if you change your mind.

none of that proves anything, nor should it even remotely suggest anything either. You WANT it to be a conspiracy, so youre grasping at straws

[buildinthaskinnys]

none of that proves anything, nor should it even remotely suggest anything either. You WANT it to be a conspiracy, so youre grasping at straws (and you refuse to believe that your precious neo-conservative governments would lie to you).

If you actually read that, you would have read the part where I say that it dosent prove anything, but there is a reason conspiracys exist. Actually I doubt that the buildings were dropped by explosives, you never asked me though now did you? I just dont believe that it would be impossible. If you look into the design of the two trade centers and you know as much as you claim to about high rise demolitions, then you would realize that it would be a demolitionists dream come true.

[BAM]

as I said earlier, the way the buildings fell is not important, It is the fact that the planes were flown into the buildings at the command of Israel that should be the concern.

[waderow]

If you actually read that, you would have read the part where I say that it dosent prove anything, but there is a reason conspiracys exist. Actually I doubt that the buildings were dropped by explosives, you never asked me though now did you? I just dont believe that it would be impossible. If you look into the design of the two trade centers and you know as much as you claim to about high rise demolitions, then you would realize that it would be a demolitionists dream come true.

it isnt about them lying, because I HATE government and I know they are all snakes who deserve a bullet in the head.

But, in this case, it is absurd to think that 9-11 was a set up. just couldnt happen. Well, I suppose the only plausible way is that the terrorists were suicidal cia agents, but this too would require complete covertness, and it would never happen. far too many leeches in govt willing to sell their soul for power. a whistle blow on such a thing would do just that

[z83]

some members definately have too much time

[waderow]

some members definately have too much time

Hmmm. How would a polite, mature, socially functional person respond to this troll post?

How bout "well thank you for your concern z83, but at this time your opinion is not needed."


**** that was unsatisfying

[natenator]

Hmmm. How would a polite, mature, socially functional person respond to this troll post?

How bout "well thank you for your concern z83, but at this time your opinion is not needed."


**** that was unsatisfying
LOL

[CanadianIron]

Hmmm. How would a polite, mature, socially functional person respond to this troll post?

How bout "well thank you for your concern z83, but at this time your opinion is not needed."


**** that was unsatisfying

How about, "Hey idiot, I'm getting paid!" one of the benefits of operating CNC equip. Sitting around while the machine does all the work. :puff

[dremen]

Well in all honesty i have no idea what the "real" truth is when it comes to 9/11, but the twin towers and building 7 (i think it was 7) were taken down with controlled demolition.

I myself think it was a combo of well placed explosives and thermite, for what reason that's anyones guess. No way in hell those building would fall the way they did with out external help, no ****ing way. Even the buildings designer and top top architects agree with this.

Go and search the web for videos of buildings that collapse from fire damage and you will not be able to find a video of a building coming straight down onto itself, like never. Also jet fuel along with the burning fire was not hot enough to melt steel yet there is clear footage of molten steel pouring out of the towers in high volume.

Lets not forget about the presence of large amounts of thermite left over in the dust.

There is just WAY too many things that point to something other then structural failure do to heat and fatigue due to damage.

Im just going off of the science not what people have heard or said about that day.

[waderow]

Well in all honesty i have no idea what the "real" truth is when it comes to 9/11, but the twin towers and building 7 (i think it was 7) were taken down with controlled demolition.

I myself think it was a combo of well placed explosives and thermite, for what reason that's anyones guess. No way in hell those building would fall the way they did with out external help, no ****ing way. Even the buildings designer and top top architects agree with this.

Go and search the web for videos of buildings that collapse from fire damage and you will not be able to find a video of a building coming straight down onto itself, like never. Also jet fuel along with the burning fire was not hot enough to melt steel yet there is clear footage of molten steel pouring out of the towers in high volume.

Lets not forget about the presence of large amounts of thermite left over in the dust.

There is just WAY too many things that point to something other then structural failure do to heat and fatigue due to damage.

Im just going off of the science not what people have heard or said about that day.

Dremen. Since I am being nice and socially functional from now on, even while on NPP. I won't call you a retard. Instead I will refer you to the rest of this thread that you obviously didn't read.

Thank you

[dremen]

Dremen. Since I am being nice and socially functional from now on, even while on NPP. I won't call you a retard. Instead I will refer you to the rest of this thread that you obviously didn't read.

Thank you


Wow well how big of you wade....goof!!!

[waderow]

Wow well how big of you wade....goof!!!

hey hey hey
i never called you any names and then you go hurt my feelings by calling me a goof? how mean

[buildinthaskinnys]

hey hey hey
i never called you any names and then you go hurt my feelings by calling me a goof? how mean

6002 posts! Congratulations!!, And your six thousandth post was Hitler demontrating the proper way to salute. HAHA This is the reason why I come back here all the time.:yeah

[waderow]

lol

[_Ragnar_]

Wow where to start on this one... I agree with wade and CI. It amazes me how quick people are to believe this crap. Let me guess we didn't land on the moon either? I am the first guy to say that there is a lot more that goes on than meets the eye, and hell ya I'm sure there was a gross mismanagement of intelligence. These were the same guys that told us that there were WMDs in Iraq. But I don't believe for a second that the Americans did this to themselves. Its simple, if they wanted to start a war on terror they'd of bombed a destroyer in the middle east. Worked in Vietnam.

[natenator]

Well in all honesty i have no idea what the "real" truth is when it comes to 9/11, but the twin towers and building 7 (i think it was 7) were taken down with controlled demolition.

I myself think it was a combo of well placed explosives and thermite, for what reason that's anyones guess. No way in hell those building would fall the way they did with out external help, no ****ing way. Even the buildings designer and top top architects agree with this.

Go and search the web for videos of buildings that collapse from fire damage and you will not be able to find a video of a building coming straight down onto itself, like never. Also jet fuel along with the burning fire was not hot enough to melt steel yet there is clear footage of molten steel pouring out of the towers in high volume.

Lets not forget about the presence of large amounts of thermite left over in the dust.

There is just WAY too many things that point to something other then structural failure do to heat and fatigue due to damage.

Im just going off of the science not what people have heard or said about that day.
Science?

LMAO

I bet you don't even know what the periodic table is lol

[waderow]

Science?

LMAO

I bet you don't even know what the periodic table is lol

holy ****.... LOLOLOL

this whole social dysfunction thing isnt going to work as long as Dremen keeps posting

[FLIP]

and you! :flowers

[CanadianIron]

Well in all honesty i have no idea what the "real" truth is when it comes to 9/11, but the twin towers and building 7 (i think it was 7) were taken down with controlled demolition.

I myself think it was a combo of well placed explosives and thermite, for what reason that's anyones guess. No way in hell those building would fall the way they did with out external help, no ****ing way. Even the buildings designer and top top architects agree with this.

Go and search the web for videos of buildings that collapse from fire damage and you will not be able to find a video of a building coming straight down onto itself, like never. Also jet fuel along with the burning fire was not hot enough to melt steel yet there is clear footage of molten steel pouring out of the towers in high volume.

Lets not forget about the presence of large amounts of thermite left over in the dust.

There is just WAY too many things that point to something other then structural failure do to heat and fatigue due to damage.

Im just going off of the science not what people have heard or said about that day.

You obviously missed the entire thread here with the expection of the first post.

There is not a single video of "molten steel pouring out of the towers in high volume." And there is no record of "Large amounts of thermite left over in the dust."

This is the bullshit that this snowball of a conspiracy theory has come to. Again, you can see with your own eyes, I watched it live, the towers collapse on the floors hit by the plane and the buildings come down. The only way explosives could have been used is if they were planted within 1-2 floors of exactly where the planes hit, because you can see that this is where the structure of the building failed. Even if they did find traces of thermite, thermite is just an equal part mixture of aluminum and iron oxide. Coincidentally this entire building was made of iron and like some iron oxide (rust) and the planes were made of aluminum. IF they did find evidense of iron/aluminum mixtures burned into each other, you can use a rusty nail and some aluminum shavings to make your own thermite.

Your post has reconfirmed my suspicion that most of the 9/11 inside job idiots are just that, idiots. They perpetuate the theory based on stupid statements and ignorance to the obvious truth. Thanks for clarifying/demostrating that.

[waderow]

You obviously missed the entire thread here with the expection of the first post.

There is not a single video of "molten steel pouring out of the towers in high volume." And there is no record of "Large amounts of thermite left over in the dust."

This is the bullshit that this snowball of a conspiracy theory has come to. Again, you can see with your own eyes, I watched it live, the towers collapse on the floors hit by the plane and the buildings come down. The only way explosives could have been used is if they were planted within 1-2 floors of exactly where the planes hit, because you can see that this is where the structure of the building failed. Even if they did find traces of thermite, thermite is just an equal part mixture of aluminum and iron oxide. Coincidentally this entire building was made of iron and like some iron oxide (rust) and the planes were made of aluminum. IF they did find evidense of iron/aluminum mixtures burned into each other, you can use a rusty nail and some aluminum shavings to make your own thermite.

Your post has reconfirmed my suspicion that most of the 9/11 inside job idiots are just that, idiots. They perpetuate the theory based on stupid statements and ignorance to the obvious truth. Thanks for clarifying/demostrating that.

careful, we cant call dremen an idiot anymore

[natenator]

careful, we cant call dremen an idiot anymore
toidi works though!

[dremen]

No go ahead call me all the ****ing names you want guys...like obviously it makes you feel better.

You don't like my point of view put me on ignore.

[natenator]

No go ahead call me all the ****ing names you want guys...like obviously it makes you feel better.

You don't like my point of view put me on ignore.
we cant. That would be irresponsible to the people who come here wanting to receive solid, knowledgeable advice and help. If we put you on ignore that would leave you to run rampant and unchecked.

We need to balance out your asininity

[dremen]

we cant. That would be irresponsible to the people who come here wanting to receive solid, knowledgeable advice and help. If we put you on ignore that would leave you to run rampant and unchecked.

We need to balance out your asininity

Oh well glad you have an excuse. How far exactly is your head up your ass nate?

[waderow]

Oh well glad you have an excuse. How far exactly is your head up your ass nate?

I would prefer if you said sphincter or anus in lieu of "ass"

so back on topic. Dremen, tell me about this science

[cog]

Wow where to start on this one... I agree with wade and CI. It amazes me how quick people are to believe this crap. Let me guess we didn't land on the moon either? I am the first guy to say that there is a lot more that goes on than meets the eye, and hell ya I'm sure there was a gross mismanagement of intelligence. These were the same guys that told us that there were WMDs in Iraq. But I don't believe for a second that the Americans did this to themselves. Its simple, if they wanted to start a war on terror they'd of bombed a destroyer in the middle east. Worked in Vietnam.

Ragnar,this happened in 2001,how do you come to the conclusion that people rushed to judgement here.Initially I believed it as presented.After I saw that Lithuanian site about the Pentagon it became apparent that there wE deception taking place.Wade has sidestepped the lack of any evidence of a plane involved at the Pentagon.Since then the world has seen what a pack of liars that Bush and Cheney were.It took about 8 years for the IRS to "clean up" and finally release his income tax records.He appears dirty from his time in the seventies servicing drilling platforms for his father in the Gulf of Mexico and the mystery of where he got the money to buy the Texas Rangers.

[waderow]

Ragnar,this happened in 2001,how do you come to the conclusion that people rushed to judgement here.Initially I believed it as presented.After I saw that Lithuanian site about the Pentagon it became apparent that there wE deception taking place.Wade has sidestepped the lack of any evidence of a plane involved at the Pentagon.Since then the world has seen what a pack of liars that Bush and Cheney were.It took about 8 years for the IRS to "clean up" and finally release his income tax records.He appears dirty from his time in the seventies servicing drilling platforms for his father in the Gulf of Mexico and the mystery of where he got the money to buy the Texas Rangers.

what evidence shows it wasnt a plane. aluminum melts. high speed impact breaks up the jet into tiny tiny pieces. I recall a jet engine hauled away. a jet liner was unaccounted for and the passengers on it.

[cog]

what evidence shows it wasnt a plane. aluminum melts. high speed impact breaks up the jet into tiny tiny pieces. I recall a jet engine hauled away. a jet liner was unaccounted for and the passengers on it.

You also heard that other flight that crashed was shot down.What to believe from that administration.The news agencies will feed you whatever they are told to.

[waderow]

You also heard that other flight that crashed was shot down.What to believe from that administration.The news agencies will feed you whatever they are told to.

I also said I can see why they would cover that up.... plus, it is possible that the passengers brought it down too.

[CanadianIron]

You also heard that other flight that crashed was shot down.What to believe from that administration.The news agencies will feed you whatever they are told to.

I remember watching the news on 9/11 and there was a shit load of speculation going on, if you had a possible tip, they gave you air time and people ate it up. I've visited Jonestown, PA and worked in a shop less than 5 miles from where that plane went down, I talked to people who saw the crash site within days of 9/11. It was legit.

If the plane was shot down, it wouldnt make a nice little crater with pieces of plane everywhere, it would have left a trail of destruction 20 miles long.

All of the arguments by 9/11 inside jobbers, can be easily dismissed with reasonable explanation. Where as their theories rely on massive cover ups and this elite crowd planning and executing the whole thing. The happenings of 9/11 are as clear as water. People just need to be told the facts so they dont go around propagating idiotic lies.

It should also be mentioned that this is Canada, and regardless of the ties we have to the USA, our media is independant and if there was a legitimate cover up, I dont think Canadian media would hide it. All it would take is 1, just 1 small hole in this cover up, with solid evidense that could definitively demonstrate a cover up, and a reporter could make their career. This cover up relys on so much circumstance that you would have piles and piles of evidense to hide.

[cog]

what evidence shows it wasnt a plane. aluminum melts. high speed impact breaks up the jet into tiny tiny pieces. I recall a jet engine hauled away. a jet liner was unaccounted for and the passengers on it.

I can't recall any jet that crashed completely disappearing.How does anybody really know if a jet is missing?Why did they bulldoze the sod in front of the site almost immediately?Coverup.

[BAM]

...............

[Ritch]

I haven`t followed this thread 100%, but if the whole thing was planned by terrorists, wouldn`t they aim for maximum destruction? Why would they want the buildings to fall down straight? Dosen`t make sense.

[rickyboy36]

I haven`t followed this thread 100%, but if the whole thing was planned by terrorists, wouldn`t they aim for maximum destruction? Why would they want the buildings to fall down straight? Dosen`t make sense.

Maximum destruction like what?Like in wanting more people being killed?Some 50,000 people worked in the buildings, while another 200,000 visited or passed through each day. The top floor observation deck had 26,000 visitors daily, who could see for 45 miles on a clear day(taken from google).

The Towers were an iconic structure known all over the world.They reopresented economic STRENGHT.Many financial companies tied to wall street were there(Morgan Stanley, Aon Corporation, Salomon Brothers..ect..)

So in essence,having the twin towers being plowed along with the pentagon and white house(supposably this was where that plane that was gunned down was heading) the terrorist group alqueda showed the USA that no matter how powerful they are as an economy or military,they will always lose to the hands of God..

[Ritch]

Like more destruction, lol... Dosen`t need anymore explaining. Surely a mastermind could plan that.

They will always lose to the hands of God?

Yeah, ok, think I`ll keep my visits in this section to a minimal as I`ve always done...

[rickyboy36]

Like more destruction, lol... Dosen`t need anymore explaining. Surely a mastermind could plan that.

They will always lose to the hands of God?

Yeah, ok, think I`ll keep my visits in this section to a minimal as I`ve always done...

Ritch..I referring to what alquaida said and to explain to you "their" reasoning for the buildings..

It's their holy war so to speak,they said they did it in the name of God..or Allah..whatever

[Ritch]

Hey, I`m not judging, lol...

[Beachmuscle]

The whole story is fishy. I don't believe the official story, nor do I believe the whole truth is being told.

Gut feeling is that the there is more bullshit than truth in the official story.

Call me a retard, a nut, or whatever.. but how often does the establishment ever feed us the damn truth?

All I see in this thread is a bunch of insults being hurled at people. Same old shills. Emotion vs logic.

It's funny as soon as someone tries to present an explanation beyond the official story they have insults hurled at them. Blatant slurs, ridicule and emotional crap to discredit.

History, the world was once thought to be flat, and if you believed otherwise you were an idiot. It's going to be interesting what history shows as the idiots 100 years from now.

[rob66679]

The whole story is fishy. I don't believe the official story, nor do I believe the whole truth is being told.

Gut feeling is that the there is more bullshit than truth in the official story.

Call me a retard, a nut, or whatever.. but how often does the establishment ever feed us the damn truth?

All I see in this thread is a bunch of insults being hurled at people. Same old shills. Emotion vs logic.

It's funny as soon as someone tries to present an explanation beyond the official story they have insults hurled at them. Blatant slurs, ridicule and emotional crap to discredit.

History, the world was once thought to be flat, and if you believed otherwise you were an idiot. It's going to be interesting what history shows as the idiots 100 years from now.

I agree.
IMHO.... All you have to do is look at the Gulf of Tonkin incident, basically the Americans faked being attacked by the North Vietnamese so they could get in on the civil war in Nam. They needed something all the dumbass's would not question, something black and white nobody would question.
I see a lot of similarities.
People in the American government at the time of 911 had already formulated a plan for intervention in the middle east, signed by many high ranking Conservatives. All they needed was a reason people would get behind...... And even now a large % of the population believes Saddam and Iraq was involved in 911....... Orwell is rolling in his grave.

It might take 50 years, and it might never come out, but theres more to the whole story than we'll know any time soon.