Need a good starting point

[uprise240]

Ok here it goes! I need to get my head on straight and start truely clean bulking and putting on some solid LBM!

I have been so called bulking on about 2500cals/day with a 40/40/20 split pro carb fat.

I am all natural - Could be important in diet recommendations

I am 5'10" weighing 165lbs currently. My bodyspace has more details and pics: http://bodyspace.bodybuilding.com/uprise240/

My goal is to hit as close as I can to 180 at the endish of april and then cut down for about a month (if need be) and see where I am at.

Anyway I started eating very little cals last spring and continued to early into the fall (about maximum 1700) probably doing more harm than good. Anyway I have since started eating more and gaining well. But each time I talk to somebody they simply state I should be eating MORE! So what SHOULD I be taking in OPTIMALLY?

I keep my intake logged and very precise so keeping track of things and maintaining things comes easy.

Also just a wuick question on top of all of this. Does it really matter when you get your cals/carbs in within a day? Ex: No carbs at night etc??? or when you realize you are low on cals at 8:00pm at night????? - I tend to believe that as long as you hit your macros for the DAY it doesnt really matter when you get them. - am I safe to assume this?

I hope you guys can help me out.

Cheers! and thanks in advance!

EDIT: Training:

Mon - Legs + Abs
Tues - Arms
Wed - Chest + Abs
Thurs - Shoulders + Traps
Fri - Back + Abs

No cardio. Weekend is for rest.

Also. Calories and macros on rest days - What should I do leave everything the same? drop some carbs?

[PdH]

Have a look at this thread bro: http://www.canadabodybuilding.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13932

It will give you an idea of what a bulking diet looks like. I suggested 4000 calories for you at this point and I stick by that. Look at the suggested diets in the thread, which come from experienced lifters, and then make something comparable with proper macros (40/40/20 is good) and calories. Also, follow the diet every day 7 days a week and make sure you are eating every 2 1/2 to 3 hours. :)

[uprise240]

Have a look at this thread bro: http://www.canadabodybuilding.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13932

It will give you an idea of what a bulking diet looks like. I suggested 4000 calories for you at this point and I stick by that. Look at the suggested diets in the thread, which come from experienced lifters, and then make something comparable with proper macros (40/40/20 is good) and calories. Also, follow the diet every day 7 days a week and make sure you are eating every 2 1/2 to 3 hours. :)

WOW 4000cals. I used some calculators and such and came up with around 2800-3000/day. hmmm

I think I have a mental block of keeping my skiny ab filled body..hahahaha

Also Fats - On my rest days I tend to reduce carbs and up my fats to accomodate calorie-wise. Do you think .5g/lb of fats is sufficient or ideal?

[White-Tiger]

You really shouldn't be afraid to gain a little fat on your frame.
With a caloric overload comes both muscle and fat...then we cut and lose the fat!

If you're interested, google "lee priest off season" pics and then find of him on-stage...granted, he's using steroids but that's still an amazing cut.

[tiramisu]

There are 2 approaches that you can take that are equally valid but will give you different results...

1) 500 calorie per day excess with an average weight gain of about 1 pound a week. This pretty efficient at allowing you to add muscle with minimal fat gain. It is not nearly as efficient at adding the most possible muscle. Think 1/3 pound per muscle per week as a pretty amazing objective.

2) Eat like you mean it. 4k calories, gallon of milk a day. Heavy compounds, squat 3 times a week. This is the optimal strategy for adding muscle and strength for a young underweight male. (That's you till about 200 by the way)

Training
dump abs, arms, traps - waste of your time and energy and lets face it if you were doing the right exercises you wouldn't need them.

start squats, deadlifts, powercleans, bench press and military press.
if you eat big add cardio in 4 times a week to keep the metabolism flying and the fat down.

Do this for a year or so and come back and ask what's nex.

[PdH]

WOW 4000cals. I used some calculators and such and came up with around 2800-3000/day. hmmm

I think I have a mental block of keeping my skiny ab filled body..hahahaha

Also Fats - On my rest days I tend to reduce carbs and up my fats to accomodate calorie-wise. Do you think .5g/lb of fats is sufficient or ideal?

You have a lot of natural growing to do Bro. For now stick with the program 7 days a week. Little tweaks aren't necessary at this point and make things unnecessarily complicated. Keep it simple for the time being and as Tiramisu says, start thinking about variations in another year. Building mass is not a complicated endeavor.

[uprise240]

You have a lot of natural growing to do Bro. For now stick with the program 7 days a week. Little tweaks aren't necessary at this point and make things unnecessarily complicated. Keep it simple for the time being and as Tiramisu says, start thinking about variations in another year. Building mass is not a complicated endeavor.

I here ya. I am really liking the atmosphere here: EAT BIG TO GET BIG!

But I know I can eat all day long (always hungry) but I just dont want to be putting on THAt much UNNECESSARY fat. It would just cause me to work harder in my cut. Starting tomorrow I am going to take in 3000cals/day and see what happens.

I will continue doing my split with probably some squating in the middle of the week somewhere. (gotta get swole with SQUATS!) and NO CARDIO un til my cut. AFTER dieting and training hit a plateau. I want to do as little cardio as possible this time around.

Just to make sure things are in place what is a good start for protein and such?

Also Does food timing matter? If so what are the most important times?

Again thanks for all the replies, help, and motivation!

Cheers!

[PdH]

250 g protein a day for your current weight.

Be sure to eat when you get up and shortly before you go to bed. Carbs before and 50 g Protein/ 50 - 80 g dextrose or waxy maize shake immediately after working out. Rest of your meals should be spaced 2 1/2 to 3 hours apart.

[buildinthaskinnys]

are you gaining currently at 2500 calories?

[uprise240]

are you gaining currently at 2500 calories?

Funny thing - it seems that I am. I starting eating about 2500-2700cals/day and have gone from 148-162lbs from about november to now. Though I did come off from a long time of eating MAX 1700cals/day so much of that weight could have been glycogen and some water and such.

I just feel that in 2-3 months I could've done ALOT better gain-wise. I also want to hit about 175. Even when I was younger I hit 162lbs. So I have NEVER been above that - and that's when I ate whatever I wanted and really had no knowledge of nutrition and barely went to gym if at all.

So my thinking is that I will really have to shock the body to spark GROWTH to happen beyond where I have been just naturally.

I was talking to a friend of mine (he is a natural on here) and he was talking about shocking the body and eating AT LEAST 3000cals/day for optimal growth.

But my questions still remains where should those 3000cals come from? So far I have 250g of protein for my height and weight which I currently am eating so thats easy.

[juced_porkchop]

diet diet. lots of protein and fats , med carbs.

also find this product to help me: http://www.lgsciences.com/Protein-p/protein.htm

[juced_porkchop]

ps i bulk abound 3500-4000cals

[uprise240]

ps i bulk abound 3500-4000cals

Yeah but what are your stats and on you on gear or not are major contributing factors to the amount you eat no? Thanks for the response BTW

[buildinthaskinnys]

I wouldnt set a bodyweight goal myself, this would probably lead to getting fatter, instead set a strength goal and lift consistantly with good form, if you bench 180 now and you are benching 200 two months from now you will have put on more muscle, and remember that slower weight gains will more often than not translate into more quality gains.
and if you are gaining now then I wouldnt change alot just remember as you grow you need to eat more, so eventually you will hit a road block if you keep eating the same.

[uprise240]

diet diet. lots of protein and fats , med carbs.

also find this product to help me: http://www.lgsciences.com/Protein-p/protein.htm

I am sort of intrigued by the "lots of protein and fats" So what, in your opinion, would be the better macro split? Like how much fat and protein. I tend to like a higher fat but dont know where to start or what is considered 'med carbs' etc...

[bigtavi8]

To be brutally honest i think you are overthinking things here. Bulk is exactly what it entails. Add mass to your frame. Its not going to be 99% muscle so dont expect it. Instead of overthinking cals and macros start out easy. Every 2.5 hours eat

1) protein:6oz-10oz of meat (Either chicken, lean ground beef, lean turkey, salmon, steak, tuna, cottage cheese)
2) Carbs- Dont worry about fast and slow. Eat pasta, potatoes, rice, sweet potatos, lentils, etc)
3) fat- almonds, peanut butter, flax oil, etc.

See easy as can be. Dont count calories. If you start eating 6 minimum balanced meals like this it is 150% going to make you put on pounds. There is no thought involved here.

Its basic
you consume (intake of food) > than you burn(metabolism, cals burned)

=gain in mass.

Dont confuse yourself and try this and i promise you it will work.

EDIt: NO cardio ever. Dont worry about cheating and eating junk, if you cant fit in a meal drink a shake. Do not go low carbs ever.

[PdH]

But my questions still remains where should those 3000cals come from? So far I have 250g of protein for my height and weight which I currently am eating so thats easy.

Beef, chicken, salmon, tuna, eggs, yogurt, whey isolate, skim milk, rice, oatmeal, sweet potatoes, dextrose or waxy maize, multigrain bread, pasta, olive oil, pb, almonds and cashews should be the staples of a bulking diet. Some will disagree on the pasta but in my experience it helps to build mass and glycogen loads like no other carb source.