Palumbo and ECA?

[White-Tiger]

Hey guys,
I started on the Palumbo diet in an effort to reduce my bodyfat % drastically.
However, in the diet profile it mentions that we have to keep cortisol levels low by not using stimulants. Then only a little lower down in the description it means that once fat loss starts to slow, he usually ups the amount of fat burners (clen, T3, etc).

Sounds a little contradictory? Anyhow, my question is whether or not running an ECA stack 3-4x a day would be a good idea on this diet or will it lead to increased muscle loss?

[ubcpower]

Clen and T3 arent a stimulant like caffeine and ephedrine...not going to get into the science of it, ill leave it for the ones who know what they are talking about in that realm.
if you dont want to use those drugs try somalyze and lipolyze by SPECIES, way better than ECA

[White-Tiger]

Clen and T3 arent a stimulant like caffeine and ephedrine...not going to get into the science of it

I can understand the difference between T3 and Eph.

However, the difference between Clen and Eph is much less...they act through the same receptors except that Clen does so directly and ECA indirectly. So for me, it's hard to justify being able to use clen and not ephedrine.

In all honesty, probably doesn't matter much as I was only going to use ECA for the first 4 weeks of this diet as I am currently away from home with no access to T3/Clen. As soon as I get back home I will be using Cytomel...

[tiramisu]

Palumbo recommends against ECA explicitly as catabolic to the muscles. Clen/T3 is not catabolic to the muscles.

Nonetheless, If I didn't have access to clen I too would be tempted to use ephedrine. My only problem is that I hate ephedrine even more than I hate clen.

A better answer might simply be an obscene amount of time walking on the dreadmill.

[natenator]

Palumbo recommends against ECA explicitly as catabolic to the muscles. Clen/T3 is not catabolic to the muscles.

Nonetheless, If I didn't have access to clen I too would be tempted to use ephedrine. My only problem is that I hate ephedrine even more than I hate clen.

A better answer might simply be an obscene amount of time walking on the dreadmill.
Technically T3 is catabolic given that it doesn't spare any one nutrient - protein, fat or glycogen (carbs) in the body. It treats all as equal.

[jamex]

I suppose you could try it and see how you feel. Personally I found it kicked my ass more during keto, but I've always been sensitive to stims. After a week my heart felt like it was achey so I ditched the ephedrine and just have a coffee in the morning and green tea as needed during the day. I'd consider Clen but I'm still unsure if I'd feel just as artificially wired and shitty like ephedrine.

[Praetorian]

I can understand the difference between T3 and Eph.

However, the difference between Clen and Eph is much less...they act through the same receptors except that Clen does so directly and ECA indirectly. So for me, it's hard to justify being able to use clen and not ephedrine.

In all honesty, probably doesn't matter much as I was only going to use ECA for the first 4 weeks of this diet as I am currently away from home with no access to T3/Clen. As soon as I get back home I will be using Cytomel...

That is incorrect....clen is a beta 2 specific agonist...ephedrine is not. Thus they may both act on beta 2 cells but clen does not act on beta 1,3 cells like ephedrine does...which by the way makes it a stimulant by definition. ECA is a very bad choice to use period as the adrenal issues that will surface are not something you want to experience and the fat loss properties are much less then that of clen...not to mention the cortisol release inherent to ephedrine. T3 is active thyroid again not a stimulant at all and nothing like clen or ephedrine.
P

[Praetorian]

Technically T3 is catabolic given that it doesn't spare any one nutrient - protein, fat or glycogen (carbs) in the body. It treats all as equal.

As long as you run some type of anabolic support ie clen, gh, aas you will not have any catabolism issues with T3.
P

[White-Tiger]

Guess I'll ditch my ECA for now, don't want to risk too much catabolism either. Even though I love the feeling of ephedrine, wired-feeling, pupils dilated, pumped energy...darn :(

Too bad, I have a pretty large supply of ECA...guess ill start using it again pre-workout during my upcoming bulk later this year...

Thanks for the advice everyone.

[Ritch]

I`d go with the eca. You`ll get way more ripped using it, than if you didn`t. This whole muscle eating talk is overrated. But adrenal burnout is a factor to consier. I mean what will cause more muscle loss? You being tired and your intensity in the gym declining? Or taking the ephedrine with caffeine to increase your ability to train but suffer the "catabolic effects" of the ephedrine?

[Praetorian]

A bit of caffeine is fine and will allow you to train with intensity even while dieting and it will enhance fat loss without the negative sides of ephedrine.
P

[White-Tiger]

Good point Ritch.
And like I said, I only plan on using the ECA for 4 weeks while I am away from home. After that I plan on starting a low dose Test E cycle with T3 to lean down.

I'm basically running this cutter because I've lost a lot of my condition in the last year or two due to a very hectic school schedule and girlfriend which interfered with gym/diet. I went from 210 at 11-12% to 190 at 19% :(:(.

Plan now is to diet down to 6-8% bodyfat even though I'll be a skinny bastard and then bulk from there to 12-14% and repeat that. I've been told several times and actually believe it's easier to put on quality LBM when you're BF% is on the lower side (high single, low teens). And besides, the aesthetics of it all is much better too.

[JacktheThriller]

caffeine alone has been shown to have great effects on keto diets

[White-Tiger]

What do you mean by "great effects"?
As in weight loss? Or as in totally screwing with the ketotic state?

[JacktheThriller]

its wasnt sarcastic its something like 30% more effective for fat burning on a keto vs other diet

[dainbramaged]

its wasnt sarcastic its something like 30% more effective for fat burning on a keto vs other diet

Wow, if that's true that is quite impressive. I'm glad to know that.

[White-Tiger]

I just got Lyle McDonald's ebook "The Ketogenic Diet" and there's a section in it regarding the ECA stack. And he seems to be of the opinion that it can help even while on a ketogenic diet.

Interesting..