AAS and Newbies getting outa hand imo

[GYMBRAT]

By newbies I mean new to aas and also lifting! In my oppinion NO one should ever be close to considering aas use no matter what their age etc., until their nartural potential in the gym lifting HARD, diet is SPOT ON is reached. That does NOT come in one year etc., and aas should imo be looked to as a last resort.

When you do feel it's time to jump to that next level, after a few yrs of dieting properly (eating like a mad man), training properly (training like a mad man) then researching vigorously about what and how you want to set your goals in the iron sport and make your mark. Till then keep killing it in the gym ;)

[tiramisu]

I'm not as convinced of all of that. While I don't think 16 year old boys should be doing steroids. They already have plenty of natural hormones and darn near infinite growth potential without the need for drugs.

I don't really see a need to spend 10 years reaching your natural potential.
Diet is critical, as is a good training program and proper technique (damn tendons are easy to hurt). These can be studied and learned in fairly short order (even though obviously most do not).

There are all sorts of reasons why one might choose to do aas. Many of them are pretty misguided. Yes they work but they aren't magic. Often I see posts about how amazing x is and if you just put x,y an z together magic will happen. Well as we already know it just isn't so.

The huge gains in the first year or two can be had without aas and the gains after come much much slower. Young guys that want to be "jacked" for the beach in 12 weeks are wasting their time. No amount of drugs is going to make up for being a buck sixty five and undernourished.

I'm fairly pro-aas. I think a serious mature trainee could very well be using them effectively within 18-24 months of starting a serious lifting program. This doesn't describe 99.9% of the people I see in the gym of course but that doesn't mean this animal does not exist.

[GYMBRAT]

basically what I posted^^ other than I don't believe in starting aas until ones natural potential is reached and that don't onl take a couple years, sorry.

[tiramisu]

Why?

[GYMBRAT]

I just think it is nessesary to know your body fully before needing aas

[waderow]

I have no prob with older gents taking light test after they learn how to eat

[GYMBRAT]

I have no prob with older gents taking light test after they learn how to eat

I don't neither nor do I have any issues with a 20 something guy getting into it, but I'm talking someone NEW to lifting period. I would just recommend them getting experience in the weights lifting department/diet department before considering aas is all

[Reaver.]

In terms of someone who slacks diet, doesn't have dedication or drive, has only been in the gym for less then a year, doesn't have a good routine, and is under 21... Then yes, I'll say they need to stay far away from AAS....

but, in terms of waiting till you reach your natural potential, I think that only applies to someone who will be using AAS continually, such as someone who competes/athlete

For the average steroid user, this is not the case. Without continual usage after you reach your natural potential, you would simply lose all your gains anyways...

Without almost "abuse" like behavior once you take steroids, you would simply be taking 3 steps forward and 2.5 steps back on every cycle once reaching your natural potential

[O-Train]

What do you mean by natural potential? When I think about that term it doesn't describe anyone I've ever met or even heard of. To me true natural potential is doing every single thing perfectly all the time. Some guys probably get fairly close but the way I define it no one ever reaches their natural potential. Even after 10 or 15 years.

I agree though. Young guys in the gym for a couple months wanting to get "jacked" shouldn't be touching drugs.

[marino]

Let me say that I agree with most of the above. Secondly, I thought my diet was decent, from alot of the reading on here in the last yr+ I have learned even more. For instance I have been on a bulker for 3 mos now and I have gone from 212 lbs to 228 and with a reduction in bf.

Oh and did I mention that I am 38yrs old. No AAS, just healthy eating and lots of protein. So anyone who tells me they can't gain weight or their best years are behind them, I call bullshit.

I have never been stronger or bigger in my life. Using AAS is a shortcut when you are in your teens to early twenties IMO. I believe thats why you see so many people afraid to post their diet because they know that experienced people on this board will disect and critcize their eating plan. I do plan on running another cycle in future, but not until I start to plateau and that is no time soon.

[GYMBRAT]

maybe I worded it all wrong,

I'm simply saying that you really DO NOT need to turn to aas after a yr of weight lifting because you hit a wall or a plateau with your bodys growth or your weights have not increased in the gym.....I just think at that point one should try other avenues

[O-Train]

maybe I worded it all wrong,

I'm simply saying that you really DO NOT need to turn to aas after a yr of weight lifting because you hit a wall with your bodys growth or your weights have not increased in the gym.....I just think at that point one should try other avenues

OR get out of my damn gym...using up all the equipment and getting in the way...lol

[GYMBRAT]

simply put YES!!!! LMAO!!!

[Reaver.]

maybe I worded it all wrong,

I'm simply saying that you really DO NOT need to turn to aas after a yr of weight lifting because you hit a wall with your bodys growth or your weights have not increased in the gym.....I just think at that point one should try other avenues

Agreed. :)

[marino]

maybe I worded it all wrong,

I'm simply saying that you really DO NOT need to turn to aas after a yr of weight lifting because you hit a wall or a plateau with your bodys growth or your weights have not increased in the gym.....I just think at that point one should try other avenues

I agree with you GB, this board has a plethera of info and I know that if I hit a wall in one area, some other guy here has too at one time or another. Nothing wrong with asking for advice or suggestions, lots of guys just want to jump into a cycle without really figuring out why their progress has slowed down.

[GYMBRAT]

I agree with you GB, this board has a plethera of info and I know that if I hit a wall in one area, some other guy here has too at one time or another. Nothing wrong with asking for advice or suggestions, lots of guys just want to jump into a cycle without really figuring out why their progress has slowed down.

thank you, thats what I was getting at. Just didn't know how to get it out LOL! :flowers

[Big J]

I don't think there is such thing as natural potential. There is natties like David Goodin who says he gained his mass slowly over his career.
I am currently considering a cycle in the spring. I have came to a point where I am not able to gain 5 pounds in a month or add 25 pounds to a lift in a couple of weeks. I am not at my natural limit but I do want to speed up my gains.

[GYMBRAT]

more or less my point, I was in your position when I first cycled

[declan]

I think those who shouldn't touch aas are those who know they can't change their lifestyles. If you can't dedicate an hour of your day gym time for at least 4 times a week for the rest of your life don't even think about going this route.

Some people just see lifting weights as a phase, they go to the gym before the summer or as a new year's resolution then hit the juice to get "buffed" then forfeit their membership for the rest of the year :(

[PdH]

Personally, I think there's far too many newbs on here wanting to cycle long before they're ready. How often do we see requests for advice on a planned cycle that is simply ridiculous in regard to compounds or dosages, and then the advice is ignored and they go ahead with their M1T and winny cycle. They've been training for six months and they need to speed things up a bit. I'm now hesitant to give advice to newbs as far too often I'm wasting my time, energy, and knowledge.

[physique]

this subject has been beat to death on most sites including this one.

we all hate it, but it will never change. everyone is looking for a shortcut these days, whether its for getting bigger/faster/stronger, geting better grades, making money, etc

it will never change

[GYMBRAT]

nope it won't BUT I needed an excuse to rant!! or someone woulda got smashed at the club on the wkend ;) fosho!

[PdH]

Violence is never the answer Bro. ;)

[GYMBRAT]

oh yes it is :D (sometimes) ha, I've been overly agressive/violent all my life. I'm about 90% fixed now lol

....kiddin bro you are right, somewhat ;)

[#8]

^^ violence does work. but only if you win.

[natenator]

I don't think there is such thing as natural potential. There is natties like David Goodin who says he gained his mass slowly over his career.
I am currently considering a cycle in the spring. I have came to a point where I am not able to gain 5 pounds in a month or add 25 pounds to a lift in a couple of weeks. I am not at my natural limit but I do want to speed up my gains.
5lbs in a month? Give your head a shake.

10lbs of muscle in a year is AMAZING. You did almost everything perfect. Few will achieve this.

And 25lbs to a lift? Even with AAS you won't reach that. You get to a point of diminishing returns and the 5lb increase you made on the bench in 3 months feels like you gained 50lbs on that bench when you were doing half the amount of weight. As the weight goes up, the increases go down.

[GYMBRAT]

^^ violence does work. but only if you win.

haha, I always win, unless theres more than 2 of'em :)

[Big J]

5lbs in a month? Give your head a shake.

10lbs of muscle in a year is AMAZING. You did almost everything perfect. Few will achieve this.

And 25lbs to a lift? Even with AAS you won't reach that. You get to a point of diminishing returns and the 5lb increase you made on the bench in 3 months feels like you gained 50lbs on that bench when you were doing half the amount of weight. As the weight goes up, the increases go down.

I was giving exaggerations but my initial gains came very fast.

[natenator]

I was giving exaggerations but my initial gains came very fast.
They always will. If only we could all continue with the "newbie" gains. haha

[C-money]

5lbs in a month? Give your head a shake.

10lbs of muscle in a year is AMAZING. You did almost everything perfect. Few will achieve this.

And 25lbs to a lift? Even with AAS you won't reach that. You get to a point of diminishing returns and the 5lb increase you made on the bench in 3 months feels like you gained 50lbs on that bench when you were doing half the amount of weight. As the weight goes up, the increases go down.


Exactly.. the more elite of a level you achieve it just keeps getting harder and harder.. even with AAS you hit plateaus.. it always comes down to training hard, eating right, and consistancy

[rchurchill]

if you have the genetic potential to gain 30lb of actual muscle with proper attention to training and diet and you want to do something more than go to the clubs wearing your little brother's t-shirt, by all means try AAS. problem is, most people have no discipline with diet and their training habits are horrible so they all look for the magic formula.