Got a call saying she's a few days late, ****!

[bossman_1986]

i didn't use a condom but i didn't cum in her, im on pct right now using clomid...what are the chances that she's pregnant???

[guest]

1 in 2. either she is.....or she isnt.

[daande]

i didn't use a condom but i didn't cum in her, im on pct right now using clomid...what are the chances that she's pregnant???

You need to start trying to convince her to get an abortion even if shes not pregnant. Especially if it was a random. If it was a random shame on you for no doming her. You have a 50/50 chance of her being pregnant as said above. It doesn't matter that you were on clomid and didnt cum in her.

[gsxr750]

Tell her you take finasteride for your hair and it causes birth defects.

[tiramisu]

.... Or alternately man up and be supportive. Home pregnancy test is cheap.

[Durk]

You need to start trying to convince her to get an abortion even if shes not pregnant. Especially if it was a random. If it was a random shame on you for no doming her. You have a 50/50 chance of her being pregnant as said above. It doesn't matter that you were on clomid and didnt cum in her.

rofl I will not comment because I have ****ed waaaaay to many randoms without a dome. How I havent tested positve for anything yet is either proof that std's are a myth, or that I have godlike penis powers.

[bossman_1986]

You need to start trying to convince her to get an abortion even if shes not pregnant. Especially if it was a random. If it was a random shame on you for no doming her. You have a 50/50 chance of her being pregnant as said above. It doesn't matter that you were on clomid and didnt cum in her.

i was dating her for a few weeks but i dont like her, i was gonna cut her off sooon and i cant do the abortion, im against that, even if its with someone i dont want, i cant kill my own child, i'll just have to be a man and be there for the kid, **** im stressing here

[Durk]

i was dating her for a few weeks but i dont like her, i was gonna cut her off sooon and i cant do the abortion, im against that, even if its with someone i dont want, i cant kill my own child, i'll just have to be a man and be there for the kid, **** im stressing here

ha then it might not even be yours. Take her on Muary. Dont get tricked into raisin another dudes kid.

yuck

[bossman_1986]

ha then it might not even be yours. Take her on Muary. Dont get tricked into raisin another dudes kid.

yuck

yea **** that, i even asked her if she was ****ing anyone else and she's like noo, i dunno if i believe that

[Memo]

kill her, so its not like killing your own baby..

[guest]

yea **** that, i even asked her if she was ****ing anyone else and she's like noo, i dunno if i believe that

did she know or maybe sense you were planning on ditching her?

[pseclint]

Hey man same thing happened to me in November, girl im dating, knocked up and everything, its stressful as **** yes, and it still is........ good luck man.....

[Durk]

did she know or maybe sense you were planning on ditching her?

True I have had girls tell me they were prego when they werent because I was trying to ditch em.

[bossman_1986]

did she know or maybe sense you were planning on ditching her?

you know what, i think so, because last time we chilled i didnt kiss her or anything, and when she went in to kiss me just gave her a little kiss and moved head, after that day i didnt call her, because that was the last time i want to chill with her

[guest]

you know what, i think so, because last time we chilled i didnt kiss her or anything, and when she went in to kiss me just gave her a little kiss and moved head, after that day i didnt call her, because that was the last time i want to chill with her

i wouldn't be surprised if she is just trying to keep you then. hopefully that's all it is. make her do a test in front of you.

[kawikaratekid]

Ya I've had that happen to me. Not once but twice! One tried to trap me because I didn't want anything long term and she heard I got a new girl and the other just tried to trap me. Damn scandalous women!!

[kawikaratekid]

Hopefully she's just trying to trap you bro....Get that test done soon!

[White-Tiger]

If all else fails, figure out a way to get your hands on a massive dose of misoprostol and invite her over for "a non-alcoholic drink" ;)

PS: Just kidding, don't try this.

[bossman_1986]

do those pregnancy tests work this early??

[kawikaratekid]

I think it's got to be around a month after...You have to miss a period after the act which would put you around a month because most women only ovulate once a month.

[pseclint]

she can find out 6 days before her next period, some kits can work up to 10 days before her period.....

[pseclint]

I think it's got to be around a month after...You have to miss a period after the act which would put you around a month because most women only ovulate once a month.

lol you really know nothing about a womans cycle.........

[ab_chic25]

do those pregnancy tests work this early??


actually you can have her take one 14 days after you had sex. Thats when it will first pick up anything if she is prego. Clear Blue is the best test out there, plus they come in packs of two. So have her take one now and in another week to be sure.

[daande]

i was dating her for a few weeks but i dont like her, i was gonna cut her off sooon and i cant do the abortion, im against that, even if its with someone i dont want, i cant kill my own child, i'll just have to be a man and be there for the kid, **** im stressing here

Your not killing a baby. You are killing off some cells. Think of it that way. In addition, you aren't doing it, the doctor is.

[daande]

If all else fails, figure out a way to get your hands on a massive dose of misoprostol and invite her over for "a non-alcoholic drink" ;)

PS: Just kidding, don't try this.

Where can I get some misoprostol?

[kawikaratekid]

lol you really know nothing about a womans cycle.........

Why was I off?

[White-Tiger]

Where can I get some misoprostol?

Any ER stock room will have it...getting in and out of the ER stock room is the real question. Got any nurse friends? ;)

[tex]

how about be responsible for your actions.......drugging someone to end a pregnancy is a hefty offense and only a piece of shit would do that......how about you buy her a pregnancy test and make her do it in front of you......if shes preggers explain to her that you will take care of your responsibility but there will be no romantic relationship between the 2 of you....done and done.....good luck....

[White-Tiger]

how about be responsible for your actions.......drugging someone to end a pregnancy is a hefty offense and only a piece of shit would do that......

Hence why I said it was a joke...

[daande]

how about be responsible for your actions.......drugging someone to end a pregnancy is a hefty offense and only a piece of shit would do that......

True, just get her hammered and straighten out a coat hanger and stick it in and wiggle wiggle wiggle when shes passed out drunk.

[White-Tiger]

Why was I off?

Women's cycles go like this:
You start counting from the first day of menstruation...

Day 1-7 is typically menses
Day 14 is typically ovulation (varies)
Then you have two weeks till the next menses.

Given that sperm remains viable for around 4-5 days inside a woman's womb, that puts "at risk" days from day 9 to 19.

Most modern pregnancy tests will be accurate enough to test a pregnancy is the woman is already late. No need to wait a month after the intercourse...

[gustavo77]

True, just get her hammered and straighten out a coat hanger and stick it in and wiggle wiggle wiggle when shes passed out drunk.

Not the f**k funny at all... does every thread on this site have to turn into a political forum???

To the original poster...you may have gotten the girl prego..chances are with clomid, it's on .... whether she keeps it though, is not your decision...how about that for a political statement..haha...no rights for men...

[steve_d]

I would say not 50/50 - quite a bit less...but there is always a chance. few days late is meaningless, although I suppose some could be extremely regular.

[natenator]

Your not killing a baby. You are killing off some cells. Think of it that way. In addition, you aren't doing it, the doctor is.
dude you're a ****ing moron. Abortion isn't birth control. If your adult enough to do the deed you should be adult enough to accept the consequences.

This (amongst many of your stellar posts on the topic of relationships) is why you are a first class douchebag.

[daande]

dude you're a ****ing moron. Abortion isn't birth control. If your adult enough to do the deed you should be adult enough to accept the consequences.

This (amongst many of your stellar posts on the topic of relationships) is why you are a first class douchebag.

Scenario:

Girl gets raped. Girl gets pregnant. Girls gets abortion. Is she a douchebag? Answer that question captain politically correct.

[daande]

Not the f**k funny at all... does every thread on this site have to turn into a political forum???

To the original poster...you may have gotten the girl prego..chances are with clomid, it's on .... whether she keeps it though, is not your decision...how about that for a political statement..haha...no rights for men...

That was a joke. Did not know everyone here was so serious.

[natenator]

Scenario:

Girl gets raped. Girl gets pregnant. Girls gets abortion. Is she a douchebag? Answer that question captain politically correct.
That's not even the same thing as 2 consenting adults engaging in sexual activities and the fact you offered it as a counter-argument shows you are a complete and utter ****wad.

And, my position isn't about politically correct. Its about being an adult and responsible for your actions. That has nothing to do with being politically correct.

[waderow]

go buy a ring and live the rest of your life regretting not wearing a rubber.


but, IMHO she is not prego. Coitus Interruptus (Pull and jerk) is 100% tried tested and true and a method I have employed off an on for years.

[daande]

but, IMHO she is not prego. Coitus Interruptus (Pull and jerk) is 100% tried tested and true and a method I have employed off an on for years.

Agree.

[daande]

That's not even the same thing as 2 consenting adults engaging in sexual activities and the fact you offered it as a counter-argument shows you are a complete and utter ****wad.

And, my position isn't about politically correct. Its about being an adult and responsible for your actions. That has nothing to do with being politically correct.

So you have a double standard. Abortions are only okay in certain situations to you?

[buildinthaskinnys]

i was dating her for a few weeks but i dont like her, i was gonna cut her off sooon and i cant do the abortion, im against that, even if its with someone i dont want, i cant kill my own child, i'll just have to be a man and be there for the kid, **** im stressing here

Or maybe you are too big of a pussy to accept the fact that she is a good girl and you are too chickenshit to commit to something at the age of 26? And she is just testing to see if you run like a scared little bitch at the thought of a little bambino rolling down the greasy slide of love? It is possible that she was falling for you, and concocted this plan to find out if you are a candidate for a good father and husband hoping to see your true colours.

[buildinthaskinnys]

Scenario:

Girl gets raped. Girl gets pregnant. Girls gets abortion. Is she a douchebag? Answer that question captain politically correct.

Heres another horrible scenario; Your father murders a bunch of people, should your mother have the right to kill you? Tell me at what age would you have to be for this to become legal and moral?

[guest]

Or maybe you are too big of a pussy to accept the fact that she is a good girl and you are too chickenshit to commit to something at the age of 26? And she is just testing to see if you run like a scared little bitch at the thought of a little bambino rolling down the greasy slide of love? It is possible that she was falling for you, and concocted this plan to find out if you are a candidate for a good father and husband hoping to see your true colours.

if she is playing games like that she is a manipulative piece of shit. not to mention he was only dating her for a few weeks.

the fact this guy is worried about a woman he does not love possibly being pregnant with his child does not make him a chicken shit. it makes him human, that's a life changing event.

whether or not he steps up upon confirmation that she is having his baby is another story.

[natenator]

if she is playing games like that she is a manipulative piece of shit. not to mention he was only dating her for a few weeks.

the fact this guy is worried about a woman he does not love possibly being pregnant with his child does not make him a chicken shit. it makes him human, that's a life changing event.

whether or not he steps up upon confirmation that she is having his baby is another story.
i agree

[GYMBRAT]

chics can royaly **** a guy over bro, good luck on this shit! I DO NOT believe in anyone having children without both parties concent, even if it was consesual sex!! You see it all the time, chic gets prego because she wants a child but the man does not. Then chic gets paid to go to school etc. etc., on the mans dime.....The laws have got to change......k i'm done :D

[buildinthaskinnys]

.
if she is playing games like that she is a manipulative piece of shit. not to mention he was only dating her for a few weeks.

Many do this, sometimes subconsciously, its part of their genome, women want to be pregnant thats nature.

the fact this guy is worried about a woman he does not love possibly being pregnant with his child does not make him a chicken shit. it makes him human, that's a life changing event.

I dont think dude knows what he wants, hes just doing the pre-baby shakes, already said he would be their for the kid, maybe even countinue the relationship?

whether or not he steps up upon confirmation that she is having his baby is another story.

Last but not least, Why are you answering for him? :p

[CanadianIron]

My wifes pregnancy test came back negative a week after she missed her period and we thought she was late for some other reason, 3-4 days after that the test was positive. It can take up to 6 weeks to show up on a pregnancy test.

IMO, let her have the kid, you dont want to be responsible for killing off your own kid, enjoy it, pay child support and dont be a dick. You're the one ****ing chicks without protection.

[GYMBRAT]

Or maybe you are too big of a pussy to accept the fact that she is a good girl and you are too chickenshit to commit to something at the age of 26? And she is just testing to see if you run like a scared little bitch at the thought of a little bambino rolling down the greasy slide of love? It is possible that she was falling for you, and concocted this plan to find out if you are a candidate for a good father and husband hoping to see your true colours.

thats not for her nor anyone to decide bro

[GYMBRAT]

My wifes pregnancy test came back negative a week after she missed her period and we thought she was late for some other reason, 3-4 days after that the test was positive. It can take up to 6 weeks to show up on a pregnancy test.

IMO, let her have the kid, you dont want to be responsible for killing off your own kid, enjoy it, pay child support and dont be a dick. You're the one ****ing chicks without protection.

and she's the one ****ing guys without protection ;)

[CanadianIron]

Your not killing a baby. You are killing off some cells. Think of it that way. In addition, you aren't doing it, the doctor is.

"I didnt murder that man, I interupted the electrical signals between his brain cells"...

Abortion is murder to a lot of people and it is still against the law for the majority of the world population. Our moral laws are not universal and it is possible that we are wrong about the morality of abortion.

IMO, if you had the kid and looked back, you would 100% ALWAYS regret abortion. No one can look at their own kid regardless of the bitch mother and wish they never had it, unless they're evil.

And the doctor is the tool, you are still commiting the murder by your own means.

[buildinthaskinnys]

thats not for her nor anyone to decide bro

I agree, and shes probably not pregnant is what Im trying to get at.
OP should have wrapped it up if he was so worried about babys.

[CanadianIron]

and she's the one ****ing guys without protection ;)

Yeah, but she isnt the one paying child support for 18 years, she collects and uses the money to buy herself cloths.

[GYMBRAT]

Yeah, but she isnt the one paying child support for 18 years, she collects and uses the money to buy herself cloths.

says who? ;) ...you are right to some degree. Some women more than likely do use that income for the right reasons yes.

[guest]

.

i wasnt answering for him. this is a forum where people communicate and contribute their opinion or view, as you did. i gave my opinion on your post, that's all.
:flowers

[GYMBRAT]

I agree, and shes probably not pregnant is what Im trying to get at.
OP should have wrapped it up if he was so worried about babys.

thats right yes, I do agree with you there bro

[waderow]

Yeah, but she isnt the one paying child support for 18 years, she collects and uses the money to buy herself cloths.

child support is cheaper then marriage and raising the kid in house

[daande]

child support is cheaper then marriage and raising the kid in house

My close friend recently had this same situation happen to him. He was "dating" some crazy chick for 8 months always wore a condom. He told her it was done between them. She called him a few weeks later claiming she was pregnant this and that. She even sent him a picture of the ultrasound. I checked the photo and it was taken with a blackberry but it was very very unclear. She has a blackberry but my sister who is an RN said you would never be allowed to have a cellphone during an abortion in the room. Let alone to pull it out and take a picture. Anyways, she ended up saying she aborted it after he explained to her that he didnt mind if she was pregnant and he would support the child financially but that her keeping it made him want to be with her less than he did before.

[tex]

abortion for birth control is retarded.....every woman i know that has had one regrets it cuz its a huge burden on the soul......imagine all the "what if's" you'd have after an abortion......

[L3]

abortion for birth control is retarded.....

youre holding quite the large paintbrush there bro

my coworkers sister, super hoodrat crackhead, 30 years old, 3 kids with all different daddies (doesnt know who they are for sure), all 3 kids got taken away by social services last year, since she the definition of unfit mother (kids had lice for like months, she wouldnt feed them just lay aroudn in bed all day, they would call my coworker and say "mommy is sleeping and we're hungry" and the bitch would then scream at the kids for doing that), she misses her visitation days, and is still with her jailbird boyfriend who is an abusive addict, and get this, there is a restraining order against him put up by her

being the responsible ****up she is, she got knocked up again by said BF 2-3 months ago, shes been drinking and doing drugs, had a suicide attempt. social services are gonna take the baby away pretty much as soon as it leaves the woumb. shes condiering abortion, and i support that decision fully!!!

now i know this is an extreme case, but still... i feel so bad for the 3 other kids man, the stories ive heard, it makes me wanna cry thinking about another kid having to go through that shit

[Ritch]

Man, that`s horrible. Sounds like a guest for the Steve Wilkos show... ^^^

[tex]

youre holding quite the large paintbrush there bro

my coworkers sister, super hoodrat crackhead, 30 years old, 3 kids with all different daddies (doesnt know who they are for sure), all 3 kids got taken away by social services last year, since she the definition of unfit mother (kids had lice for like months, she wouldnt feed them just lay aroudn in bed all day, they would call my coworker and say "mommy is sleeping and we're hungry" and the bitch would then scream at the kids for doing that), she misses her visitation days, and is still with her jailbird boyfriend who is an abusive addict, and get this, there is a restraining order against him put up by her

being the responsible ****up she is, she got knocked up again by said BF 2-3 months ago, shes been drinking and doing drugs, had a suicide attempt. social services are gonna take the baby away pretty much as soon as it leaves the woumb. shes condiering abortion, and i support that decision fully!!!

now i know this is an extreme case, but still... i feel so bad for the 3 other kids man, the stories ive heard, it makes me wanna cry thinking about another kid having to go through that shit

she needs her uterus taken out. none of the women i know are crackhead welfare cases. I dont really socialize with that sort.....

[CanadianIron]

youre holding quite the large paintbrush there bro

my coworkers sister, super hoodrat crackhead, 30 years old, 3 kids with all different daddies (doesnt know who they are for sure), all 3 kids got taken away by social services last year, since she the definition of unfit mother (kids had lice for like months, she wouldnt feed them just lay aroudn in bed all day, they would call my coworker and say "mommy is sleeping and we're hungry" and the bitch would then scream at the kids for doing that), she misses her visitation days, and is still with her jailbird boyfriend who is an abusive addict, and get this, there is a restraining order against him put up by her

being the responsible ****up she is, she got knocked up again by said BF 2-3 months ago, shes been drinking and doing drugs, had a suicide attempt. social services are gonna take the baby away pretty much as soon as it leaves the woumb. shes condiering abortion, and i support that decision fully!!!

now i know this is an extreme case, but still... i feel so bad for the 3 other kids man, the stories ive heard, it makes me wanna cry thinking about another kid having to go through that shit


A large paint brush will cover most of the wall quickly and efficiently. This woman is what we call a "corner" in the painting business.

But seriously, they shouldnt abort the babies, they should abort the woman. 200 years ago she would have been called a witch and burned alive. It should be against the law to have babies when you're a chronic reoffender.

[simone]

Just go and get a pregnancy test, asap..i don't know why people stress about this, like $20 at shoppers and you'll be able to sleep better....

and of course can knock her up, precum.....

abortion is such a weird thing... i've had one with my current girl... she didn't think she could get pregnant... had some meds she was on when younger and thought she was sterile.. never used birth control her whole life.. and low and behold... neither of us want kids... so we abort it... it was stressfull still for sure.. but for us it was the best decision.. i had a GREAT father.. who was at every baseball game, hockey game, you name it.. and i know i'm not ready for that... maybe in a few years... but i don't want a kid unless i know i can be there for them..

this girl might decide without you even having a say.. that's her decision.. so be prepared for that..

goodluck though!!! and stop by shoppers drug mart, pick one up, and give her a call to come over...

[CanadianIron]

^ No offense to you, but your girl, is IMO, a total retard...

Finding out your sterile and then actually getting pregnant is a huge blessing regardless of whether or not you're "ready"... i guess if you want to spit in Gods face an abortion would make sense but seriously. Having an abortion makes 1/5 women sterile as is so if you're already dry why increase that risk... weak...

[simone]

^ No offense to you, but your girl, is IMO, a total retard...

Finding out your sterile and then actually getting pregnant is a huge blessing regardless of whether or not you're "ready"... i guess if you want to spit in Gods face an abortion would make sense but seriously. Having an abortion makes 1/5 women sterile as is so if you're already dry why increase that risk... weak...

IMO, i'm sorry to hear you have an imaginary friend still...

she doesn't want children... never has.... as far as the "total retard" comment... both of us make deep into the 6 figures a year (she's a real estate broker)... travel and love our lives... if we ever for some reason want children, and can't get pregnant.. we will adopt... however, i find that highly unlikely.

[simone]

^ Having an abortion makes 1/5 women sterile as is so if you're already dry why increase that risk... weak...

Also.. u need to check your facts... as that's simply untrue.

[gregdoucette]

13%

[simone]

^
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/abortion/AN00633

not even 13%..

i'm not going to say anything past this... CanadianIron... lets just leave this at we have diff. religious views... my whole point was to the original poster, that if you're worried go get a test.. yes you can get a girl pregnant on pct, even on, whether you cum inside or not... and finally, its her decision anyway and its a stressful one for most...

[hommes]

i feel for you bossman

[physique]

so is she pregnant? as i dont want to read 7 pages of peoples religios views

[guest]

^ No offense to you, but your girl, is IMO, a total retard...

Finding out your sterile and then actually getting pregnant is a huge blessing regardless of whether or not you're "ready"... i guess if you want to spit in Gods face an abortion would make sense but seriously. Having an abortion makes 1/5 women sterile as is so if you're already dry why increase that risk... weak...

no offense but your girl is a total retard? lol.

may i ask why you consider it spitting in God's face?

[cog]

IMO, i'm sorry to hear you have an imaginary friend still...

she doesn't want children... never has.... as far as the "total retard" comment... both of us make deep into the 6 figures a year (she's a real estate broker)... travel and love our lives... if we ever for some reason want children, and can't get pregnant.. we will adopt... however, i find that highly unlikely.

Sorry to hear that somebody's life would have been such a huge inconvenience for a few months...plenty of people are waiting to adopt healthy babies.Enjoy it now,when you get older you're going to see it differently...you're going to be lonely old people with no purpose...count your money.

[CanadianIron]

no offense but your girl is a total retard? lol.

may i ask why you consider it spitting in God's face?

IMO, my opinion is not religiously based, call me a cave man but having offspring is an empowering thing. This is how we can live forever. If you didnt think you had the ability to have kids and by some miracle of science you could, IMO you're are spitting in Gods face (figure of speak, refering to an unlikely act of science granting you an unexpected result) whatever.


Good for OP, you make tons of money and at the end of your life, you'll have nothing but dying memories...

[CanadianIron]

^
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/abortion/AN00633

not even 13%..

i'm not going to say anything past this... CanadianIron... lets just leave this at we have diff. religious views... my whole point was to the original poster, that if you're worried go get a test.. yes you can get a girl pregnant on pct, even on, whether you cum inside or not... and finally, its her decision anyway and its a stressful one for most...

http://www.gargaro.com/healthproblems.html


Dr. Bohumil Stipal, Czechoslovakia's Deputy Minister of Health, stated: "Roughly 25% of the women who interrupt their first pregnancy have remained permanently childless."

5-10% will become sterile (of women who abort) - Thomas Hilgers, MD, Induced Abortion, A documented Report (1976)

The Fallopian tube is a fragile organ, if infection injures it, it often seals shut. The typical infection involving these organs is pelvic inflammatory disease (PID). "Pelvic Inflammatory Disease is difficult to manage and often leads to infertility, even with prompt treatment ... Approximately 10% of women will develop tubal adhesions leading to infertility after one episode of PID, 30% after two episodes, and more than 60% after three episodes. - (M. Spence, Sexually Transmitted Disease Bulletin, John Hopkins University).

[CanadianIron]

http://www.leaderu.com/orgs/tul/pap4.html

Read these... and tell me aborting isnt ****ed.

[gicantor]

http://www.leaderu.com/orgs/tul/pap4.html

Read these... and tell me aborting isnt ****ed.

It's not. Happy.

[CanadianIron]

If you had waited more than 5 mins to reply, I would have actually believed you read the page.. but you didnt, so Im not happy.

If you can read that whole page and actually say abortion is fine...

Cutting a chicks stomach open and killing an 8 month old baby? Shit, people have had premature babies at 6 months and they live all the time.. I dont really see how its any different than delivering a 9 month old baby and dumping it in a dumpster. People do this and it makes the top of the news...

They should FORCE women to learn about this in high school.


Increased risk of breast cancer. Because of the rapid growth of breast tissue in early pregnancy, a forced (as opposed to the natural cessation of pregnancy caused by miscarriage) premature cessation of pregnancy creates an unnatural condition. Consequently, women who have first trimester abortions face twice the risk of contracting breast cancer as those who miscarry or complete their pregnancies and give birth

[gicantor]

If you had waited 5 mins to reply, I would have actually believed you read the page.. but you didnt, so Im not happy.

If you can read that whole page and actually say abortion is fine...

Cutting a chicks stomach open and killing an 8 month old baby? Shit, people have had premature babies at 6 months and they live all the time.. I dont really see how its any different than delivering a 9 month old baby and dumping it in a dumpster. People do this and it makes the top of the news...

Actually i did read it I'm fast. First of all, the one they refer to as Partial birth abortion or Dilation and Extraction is also known as cranium decompression has been banned in the US and canada. Which would leave me to believe so has Dilation and Curettage since they are very similar.

I willing to bet half of those methods metioned have been banned. Don't believe all the bullshit you read

[CanadianIron]

Even the first method is sick, those are obviously worse to a degree but the same act IMO... sucking apart the living fetus or using a knife to cut it up then birthing the pieces. We know women in Canada abort conscious fetus's capable of feeling pain. Its ****ed to me, doesnt have to be for you.

[RagingRandy]

Actually i did read it I'm fast. First of all, the one they refer to as Partial birth abortion or Dilation and Extraction is also known as cranium decompression has been banned in the US and canada. Which would leave me to believe so has Dilation and Curettage since they are very similar.

I willing to bet half of those methods metioned have been banned. Don't believe all the bullshit you read

I was going to stay out of this but o well...
The fact is there is no laws in Canada limiting abortion. This means that abortion can be done at any time by any procedure. A woman can receive an abortion "legally" anytime prior to natural birth. This means a woman can request an abortion the day before her due date. The restrictions come from the consciences of the doctors involved. Most doctors will not perform abortions after the first trimester. There are also provincial limitations such as funding.

Additionally, a minor does is not required by law to notify the parents. It seems odd to me that a school nurse can not dispense an aspirin but can drive the same child to an abortion clinic without parental knowledge.

[waderow]

god, bibles and all bullshit aside, abortion is a disgusting vile act that is for ******s, crack heads, to terminate retarded babies (euthanasia), babies that will kill mom, and rape conceived babies.

the government wants our birth rates low, so that we can bring in immigrants under the guise of low population growth.... I say **** the government and have 10

[daande]

god, bibles and all bullshit aside, abortion is a disgusting vile act that is for ******s, crack heads, to terminate retarded babies (euthanasia), babies that will kill mom, and rape conceived babies.

the government wants our birth rates low, so that we can bring in immigrants under the guise of low population growth.... I say **** the government and have 10

Why does the government want to bring in immigrants under the guise of low pop growth?

[waderow]

Why does the government want to bring in immigrants under the guise of low pop growth?

more working class = more $
lowers inflation
increases dependency on govt
its a Liberal thing and immigrants tend to thank the Libs for making them rich with a vote

[CanadianIron]

I dont think it has anything to do with government, it has to do with feminism and their push to be like men... if they lose control over their bodies, we have an advantage... women that have abortions are extremely selfish. My wife had our baby 4 months ago and her body is actually tighter/leaner than it was before (helps shes only 21), you would NEVER know she had a baby and had she been a teen prego, she could have easily disappeared for the last 4 months of her pregnancy and pawned off the baby..

If women knew the life long consiquences of killing their baby to save themselves a few months of shame, they wouldnt do it. My wife has friends who have aborted babies and they are extremely ignorant about the whole proceedure, they have no ****ing idea what they've done to their bodies.

[Memo]

I know a girl who had 6 abortion in 6 years. It quite disturbing.

[waderow]

I know a girl who had 6 abortion in 6 years. It quite disturbing.

i hope you call her a slut or cumdumpster to her face

[guest]

IMO, my opinion is not religiously based, call me a cave man but having offspring is an empowering thing. This is how we can live forever. If you didnt think you had the ability to have kids and by some miracle of science you could, IMO you're are spitting in Gods face (figure of speak, refering to an unlikely act of science granting you an unexpected result) whatever.


Good for OP, you make tons of money and at the end of your life, you'll have nothing but dying memories...

i dont disagree with you. i would only condone abortion in extreme cases.

purely for debate, it has been said that a woman is selfish for having an abortion, is it not selfish to have a child so that YOU can 'live forever'? so that YOU can fill your own needs regardless of the type of life the child may be facing?

arent we spitting in God's face every time we exercise birth control? and thus interrupting his design with every shot of gear?

i'm just trying to look at this from all angles whether i agree with it or not.

[tiramisu]

This has become the oddest thread in a long time.

[L3]

my buddy got girls preggers 3 times, 2 abortions and a miscarriage later, hes a happy camper...that is all

technically the misscarriage could have been mine.... thank god for rec drugs!!!

[BBbox]

I dont think it has anything to do with government, it has to do with feminism and their push to be like men... if they lose control over their bodies, we have an advantage... women that have abortions are extremely selfish. My wife had our baby 4 months ago and her body is actually tighter/leaner than it was before (helps shes only 21), you would NEVER know she had a baby and had she been a teen prego, she could have easily disappeared for the last 4 months of her pregnancy and pawned off the baby..

If women knew the life long consiquences of killing their baby to save themselves a few months of shame, they wouldnt do it. My wife has friends who have aborted babies and they are extremely ignorant about the whole proceedure, they have no ****ing idea what they've done to their bodies.

You are a ****ing retard.

Do you know how many children/babies are already in orphanages and on the streets waiting for homes? Lets just ensure that every single chick who gets pregnant has to birth the thing out so that all the children who already need homes are less likely to get one. That way we can and add to the amount of kids on the streets and in group homes and foster care, where noone gives a shit about them and they often are getting molested/beaten/used for the extra money these people get for caring for them.

If anything is being selfiish, its having a ****ing baby that you cant even care for and will spend the rest of its life in terrible circumstances because of your own mistakes.

As for women being ignorant about the procedure... dude your the one who obviously knows not a ****ing thing about it.... I am in health at university and the likelihood of abortion leading to sterility is about 1%. There are THREE different types of abortion and only ONE of these can lead to said complication, making the overall likelihood of it happening that low. People just use that as a "scare tactic" to try to force women who dont want to have kids into having them anyways. Maybe you should look into things before opening your mouth about them.

[waderow]

You are a ****ing retard.

Do you know how many children/babies are already in orphanages and on the streets waiting for homes? Lets just ensure that every single chick who gets pregnant has to birth the thing out so that all the children who already need homes are less likely to get one. That way we can and add to the amount of kids on the streets and in group homes and foster care, where noone gives a shit about them and they often are getting molested/beaten/used for the extra money these people get for caring for them.

If anything is being selfiish, its having a ****ing baby that you cant even care for and will spend the rest of its life in terrible circumstances because of your own mistakes.

As for women being ignorant about the procedure... dude your the one who obviously knows not a ****ing thing about it.... I am in health at university and the likelihood of abortion leading to sterility is about 1%. There are THREE different types of abortion and only ONE of these can lead to said complication, making the overall likelihood of it happening that low. People just use that as a "scare tactic" to try to force women who dont want to have kids into having them anyways. Maybe you should look into things before opening your mouth about them.

the problem is letting these crack whores etc. get paid government assistance by having ever more kids.
Cut the assistance. take the kids before they are problem children, and give them to good folks who want to adopt a baby. Dont let the crack whore have the kids for child support and tax credits.

also, if a girl is prego, and shes a crackwhore, lock her up until birth. then put her back on the street STERILIZED

[Dryvrgrl]

also, if a girl is prego, and shes a crackwhore, lock her up until birth. then put her back on the street STERILIZED

alas... that went out of fashion around the same time Volkswagons, Uboats and funny little charlie chaplin moustashes went out of style!


OH... I chose Life!!! my little bastard will be 17 in 3 weeks and has never had a gift from a "daddy"... so... she likes IPods, Louis Vitton, and UGG boots, just incase any of you actually want to put your world saving values to a good use!... then this Mamma can buy some Fancy Protein this month! instead of the cheap shit!

[buildinthaskinnys]

alas... that went out of fashion around the same time Volkswagons, Uboats and funny little charlie chaplin moustashes went out of style!


OH... I chose Life!!! my little bastard will be 17 in 3 weeks and has never had a gift from a "daddy"... so... she likes IPods, Louis Vitton, and UGG boots, just incase any of you actually want to put your world saving values to a good use!... then this Mamma can buy some Fancy Protein this month! instead of the cheap shit!

hahaha

[CanadianIron]

You are a ****ing retard.

Do you know how many children/babies are already in orphanages and on the streets waiting for homes? Lets just ensure that every single chick who gets pregnant has to birth the thing out so that all the children who already need homes are less likely to get one. That way we can and add to the amount of kids on the streets and in group homes and foster care, where noone gives a shit about them and they often are getting molested/beaten/used for the extra money these people get for caring for them.

If anything is being selfiish, its having a ****ing baby that you cant even care for and will spend the rest of its life in terrible circumstances because of your own mistakes.

As for women being ignorant about the procedure... dude your the one who obviously knows not a ****ing thing about it.... I am in health at university and the likelihood of abortion leading to sterility is about 1%. There are THREE different types of abortion and only ONE of these can lead to said complication, making the overall likelihood of it happening that low. People just use that as a "scare tactic" to try to force women who dont want to have kids into having them anyways. Maybe you should look into things before opening your mouth about them.

YOU are a ****ing retard.

Do you know how many rich sterile people are ready to give up their left nut to have a white new born baby? Orphanages in Canada, yeah right. My aunt is a foster parent, and people adopt babies ALL the time, they're in extremely high demand, just look at the babies people are spending HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS on from Haiti.

Kids that are abused and unwanted are often 4+ year old and no one wants them because their parents thought they wanted them and ****ed them up. Has nothing to do with abortion, has to do with the social degredation of the family unit.

Show me the study that says abortion leads to 1% sterility. If you're so well educated on the subject, lets see some proceedural information regarding current abortion techniques that are all gentle and fun...

You're just another douche bag, wimp man who doesnt have the balls to look after someone other than themself. You're "mature" enough to sleep with women but actually having a kid is just WAAAY too much... Guys like you want your cake and to eat it to. Your motives are obviously skewed. The thought of having a baby and having to support some woman you dont love completely perverts your perception of morals.

[waderow]

alas... that went out of fashion around the same time Volkswagons, Uboats and funny little charlie chaplin moustashes went out of style!


and thats the problem.... its not in "style"

[_Ragnar_]

Hey Bossman, any news on the actual subject of this tread?

[tiramisu]

after all the raving he made be too scared to post. the hillbilly's are restless.

[CanadianIron]

i dont disagree with you. i would only condone abortion in extreme cases.

purely for debate, it has been said that a woman is selfish for having an abortion, is it not selfish to have a child so that YOU can 'live forever'? so that YOU can fill your own needs regardless of the type of life the child may be facing?

arent we spitting in God's face every time we exercise birth control? and thus interrupting his design with every shot of gear?

i'm just trying to look at this from all angles whether i agree with it or not.

I believe there is room for discresion and if the health of the baby or mother is at risk, the call should be made.

MOST of the women today getting abortions are healthy 14-20 year old women who want to be bar stars and be total sluts without consiquence. Totally selfish, totally stupid.

I can live with what happens beyond my control, which is like everything, I can only control myself and the actions of my immediate family to a degree. But dont expect me to give a shit about people on the other side of the world when there are poor little babies being murdered daily in my own city. If I ever had money to donate to charity, it would be to an anti-abortion group. IMO this is at the top of my list of modern day moral offenses. Worse than any genocide or war anywhere in the world today IMO. Nothing is more valueble than an unborn baby.

How many of you have actually witnessed a birth...?

[Durk]

the problem is letting these crack whores etc. get paid government assistance by having ever more kids.
Cut the assistance. take the kids before they are problem children, and give them to good folks who want to adopt a baby. Dont let the crack whore have the kids for child support and tax credits.

also, if a girl is prego, and shes a crackwhore, lock her up until birth. then put her back on the street STERILIZED

In some cases that wont make a difference. Their are plenty of kids in group homes, treatment centers, etc. That were taken away as babies, but are not suitable for foster homes/adoption because they are so ****ed up mentally from their mother drinking and/or doing drugs while pregnant.

Sadly some kids come out so damaged not even being raised from birth in a good home will save them.

The weird thing is there is more hope for a crack babie then someone whose mom was a drunk.

[CanadianIron]

In some cases that wont make a difference. Their are plenty of kids in group homes, treatment centers, etc. That were taken away as babies, but are not suitable for foster homes/adoption because they are so ****ed up mentally from their mother drinking and/or doing drugs while pregnant.

Sadly some kids come out so damaged not even being raised from birth in a good home will save them.

The weird thing is there is more hope for a crack babie then someone whose mom was a drunk.

Im gonna have to disagree here... fetal alcohol babies may be slightly retarded, but in the right home they can be brought up just fine.

The majority of people in this world are brought up in less than perfect families and we all get to a point where we have to walk on our own 2 feet and make our own decisions, im sure half of the people on this board could have been aborted by their mothers because of less than ideal family conditions, but they're surviving. Sure the first few years of any given persons life might be shit, but when you look at the populace, the majority of the people raised in shitty homes turn out and arent crack head homeless people. A lot of the crack head homeless people grew up in functional homes with parents who loved them... life is what you make of it and everyone deserves a chance. Even the unborn.

[Durk]

Im gonna have to disagree here... fetal alcohol babies may be slightly retarded, but in the right home they can be brought up just fine.

The majority of people in this world are brought up in less than perfect families and we all get to a point where we have to walk on our own 2 feet and make our own decisions, im sure half of the people on this board could have been aborted by their mothers because of less than ideal family conditions, but they're surviving. Sure the first few years of any given persons life might be shit, but when you look at the populace, the majority of the people raised in shitty homes turn out and arent crack head homeless people. A lot of the crack head homeless people grew up in functional homes with parents who loved them... life is what you make of it and everyone deserves a chance. Even the unborn.


I am glad that you know more than me being that I am a counsellor, and have literally read about a hundred CAS case files on the kids that I have worked with.

Have you met a kid who can shake their head, and you can hear their brains rattle from fetal alcohol damage? I have met a few.

[kloan]

I am glad that you know more than me being that I am a counsellor, and have literally read hundreds of CAS case files on the kids that I have worked with.

Have you met a kid who can shake their head, and you can hear their brains rattle from fetal alcohol damage? I have met a few.

Call me crazy, but I don't think it's a good idea to be shaking the kids heads like that...

[Durk]

lol shake their own head smart ass.

Durk does not approve of shaking children.

[CanadianIron]

I am glad that you know more than me being that I am a counsellor, and have literally read about a hundred CAS case files on the kids that I have worked with.

Have you met a kid who can shake their head, and you can hear their brains rattle from fetal alcohol damage? I have met a few.

No offense, but you totally discredit yourself with such a stupid statement. How in the world could you possibly hear a brain moving around when it is soft and surrounded by liquid. You're implying that their brain is moving so violently around inside their skull that the soft brain tissue could make a noise audible from the outside over all the ambient noise.

I can only assume based on your bullshit lie, that you arent a councellor and you have no idea what you're talking about.

Probably one of the dumbest things I've ever read on the internet, almost worth quoting in a sig.

[Durk]

lol put it in a sig then

[CanadianIron]

Thats not how I roll...

[Durk]

Thats not how I roll...

Taking a temper tantrum every time someone doesnt agree with what you say because they back it up with real life experience seems to be how you roll.

[cog]

They should have jail terms for women that give birth to FAS kids.

[natenator]

Taking a temper tantrum every time someone doesnt agree with what you say because they back it up with real life experience seems to be how you roll.
and Durk FTW

[tex]

so is she preggers or full of shit?

[waderow]

In some cases that wont make a difference. Their are plenty of kids in group homes, treatment centers, etc. That were taken away as babies, but are not suitable for foster homes/adoption because they are so ****ed up mentally from their mother drinking and/or doing drugs while pregnant.

Sadly some kids come out so damaged not even being raised from birth in a good home will save them.

The weird thing is there is more hope for a crack babie then someone whose mom was a drunk.

yes, there are some, and there are even some babies born with aids, and herpes, all because their crack whore moms wont go through a c-section, and contaminates the kid through her nasty ****.
Those ****ed up kids need medication and a rubber room unfortunately.

That being said, there is always some do good thumper willing to take in such a kid, and then after 15 years or so, the kid hurts the neighbor kid with a bat, or touches the younger sister in her private places, etc etc etc etc Its not a good situation.

My solution is eliminating crackheads by means of labour camps

[Durk]

yes, there are some, and there are even some babies born with aids, and herpes, all because their crack whore moms wont go through a c-section, and contaminates the kid through her nasty ****.
Those ****ed up kids need medication and a rubber room unfortunately.

That being said, there is always some do good thumper willing to take in such a kid, and then after 15 years or so, the kid hurts the neighbor kid with a bat, or touches the younger sister in her private places, etc etc etc etc Its not a good situation.

My solution is eliminating crackheads by means of labour camps

Those kinds of situations happen so much its not funny. As I said before even with adopting a babie you have a statistically slightly over 50% chance of getting a child with some degree of drug/alcohol damage.


No matter the age of a child that you are looking to adopt, you have to realize that they could potential be much more difficult to raise then your own natural children.

[PdH]

I believe there is room for discresion and if the health of the baby or mother is at risk, the call should be made.

MOST of the women today getting abortions are healthy 14-20 year old women who want to be bar stars and be total sluts without consiquence. Totally selfish, totally stupid.

I can live with what happens beyond my control, which is like everything, I can only control myself and the actions of my immediate family to a degree. But dont expect me to give a shit about people on the other side of the world when there are poor little babies being murdered daily in my own city. If I ever had money to donate to charity, it would be to an anti-abortion group. IMO this is at the top of my list of modern day moral offenses. Worse than any genocide or war anywhere in the world today IMO. Nothing is more valueble than an unborn baby.

How many of you have actually witnessed a birth...?

Do you bomb abortion clinics? As for your assertion regarding demographics of the majority of women who get abortions and their motivations for doing so, where are your sources? If you're going to call for sources why aren't you giving them? Frankly, I'm kind of jealous of your ability to live in a black and white world dictated by a book of ancient metaphors. Things sure would be easier in a black and white world. I wouldn't have to contemplate, consider, or think for that matter.

[PdH]

also, if a girl is prego, and shes a crackwhore, lock her up until birth. then put her back on the street STERILIZED

Wade's eugenics program. Heh, heh.

[waderow]

Wade's eugenics program. Heh, heh.

indeed.

[Dryvrgrl]

am easier solution would be to make every male who produces sperm go for a yearly shot in thier winkie with some magical drug that makes them shoot blanks!... then if a man decides he's found a woman worthy of breeding with, and not just bedding, he can go to the government and fill out all the neccessary forms and get anothet magic shot to reverse the procedre and he'll be shooting spermies again!.. If after following the proper course of registered birth action, a man decides the mother of his children is no longer worthy property, and puts her aside, payment shal be taken out in the form of an inch of cock for every thousand dollars owing...

PERFECTLY sound solution!!

[PdH]

If after following the proper course of registered birth action, a man decides the mother of his children is no longer worthy property, and puts her aside, payment shal be taken out in the form of an inch of cock for every thousand dollars owing... PERFECTLY sound solution!!

Dryvrgrl's eugenics program. :) Any others?

[steve_d]

YOU are a ****ing retard.

Do you know how many rich sterile people are ready to give up their left nut to have a white new born baby? Orphanages in Canada, yeah right. My aunt is a foster parent, and people adopt babies ALL the time, they're in extremely high demand, just look at the babies people are spending HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS on from Haiti.

Kids that are abused and unwanted are often 4+ year old and no one wants them because their parents thought they wanted them and ****ed them up. Has nothing to do with abortion, has to do with the social degredation of the family unit.

Show me the study that says abortion leads to 1% sterility. If you're so well educated on the subject, lets see some proceedural information regarding current abortion techniques that are all gentle and fun...

You're just another douche bag, wimp man who doesnt have the balls to look after someone other than themself. You're "mature" enough to sleep with women but actually having a kid is just WAAAY too much... Guys like you want your cake and to eat it to. Your motives are obviously skewed. The thought of having a baby and having to support some woman you dont love completely perverts your perception of morals.

Even though I agree with your views on this matter (not as strongly, but still agree), I have to step in and say you really have to look at the stats relative to those who did not have an abortion. Probably the rates of infertility are up there in the 20% range for infertility in the general population especially going into the later 30s.

Yes, there is probably a link with abortion and infertility, but very weak. And mostly due to infections after abortion that could have been properly managed...Alot of the stuff you read out there claiming high rates of infertility are indeed scare tactics, or data taken out of context.

Just saying.

[CanadianIron]

Do you bomb abortion clinics? As for your assertion regarding demographics of the majority of women who get abortions and their motivations for doing so, where are your sources? If you're going to call for sources why aren't you giving them? Frankly, I'm kind of jealous of your ability to live in a black and white world dictated by a book of ancient metaphors. Things sure would be easier in a black and white world. I wouldn't have to contemplate, consider, or think for that matter.

Religion does not dictate my morals, my morals are based on my conscience. If you read into christianity you would know that none of this is covered and most of the material people use to back their opinion is taken out of context. I have no biblical backing for my opinion.

My opinion is based on my feelings regarding the subject. Call me a wimp or whatever, but I have compassion for the unborn and the though of abortion actually makes me feel bad. I watched my own child develop from a few cells into a beautiful baby and my opinion is in the best interest of life.

Whatever injustice happens beyond my circle doesnt really effect me and although the thought of women all over this place killing their babies bothers me, I will live on.

To me, its just wrong. You're using a vacuum to dismember a living, developing person and you're interupting its chance at life. To me, on a moral level, its murder and I have every right to voice that at my discresion. If I offend you or your girl, sad story.

[CanadianIron]

Taking a temper tantrum every time someone doesnt agree with what you say because they back it up with real life experience seems to be how you roll.


Your real life experience?

You mean, the time you heard some kids brain moving around when he shook his head? Your real life experience is a lie. So +1 for me :flagC

[PdH]

To me, its just wrong. You're using a vacuum to dismember a living, developing person and you're interupting its chance at life. To me, on a moral level, its murder and I have every right to voice that at my discresion. If I offend you or your girl, sad story.

You've got some very selective determinations regarding morality. It seems your morality is based entirely upon self-indulgence. You readily deride others for engaging in activities that you find morally reprehensible, yet I wonder if you ever consider your own morally reprehensible behaviour?

Did you eat some meat today? Life was terminated to provide you with the protein needed to practice your leisure activity known as bodybuilding. I wonder, do you ever shop at Walmart or dollar stores? Supporting slavery you are. Where do all the parts in your car come from? Maybe totalitarian regimes that initiate death squads against their own populations. I could go on and on Skippy, but somehow I think you'd be able to rationalize away all of your own questionable misgivings in favour of condemning others for theirs. Nice black and white world you live in there. Is it safer inside?

[CanadianIron]

I differentiate human life from animals, although I believe there is a certain level of responsibilty regarding how we are to treat animals, they arent on the same level as a human life.

And slave labour.... I dont see anything wrong with hard work, if people are doing what they need to do to survive, then good for them.. it has nothing to do with how bad they have it... it has to do with how GOOD we have it. Prior to this and the last century everything and everyone was subject to "slave labour"... its called surviving.

Regardless of my upbringing I concider and substantiate everything I do, I question everything and make moral decisions on everything I do, NOTHING is dictated to me. Religion is a starting point to understanding.

[PdH]

I differentiate human life from animals, although I believe there is a certain level of responsibilty regarding how we are to treat animals, they arent on the same level as a human life.

And slave labour.... I dont see anything wrong with hard work, if people are doing what they need to do to survive, then good for them.. it has nothing to do with how bad they have it... it has to do with how GOOD we have it. Prior to this and the last century everything and everyone was subject to "slave labour"... its called surviving.

Regardless of my upbringing I concider and substantiate everything I do, I question everything and make moral decisions on everything I do, NOTHING is dictated to me. Religion is a starting point to understanding.

I could go on and on Skippy, but somehow I think you'd be able to rationalize away all of your own questionable misgivings in favour of condemning others for theirs. Nice black and white world you live in there. Is it safer inside?

[CanadianIron]

Its much safer for the souls of the unborn...

http://remnantradio.org/Mirror/www.jesus-is-savior.com/Evils%20in%20America/Abortion%20is%20Murder/abortion_107.jpg

[CanadianIron]

I never do it, but I will actually pray for you.

[PdH]

I never do it, but I will actually pray for you.

No need, the universe is always looking out for my best interests. Your photo is unnecessarily disturbing and your motivations for posting it are beyond the pale. Remove it.

[CanadianIron]

Absolutely not. It supports my point entirely. Words are nothing, look at the true results of abortion, look into your own soul and decide for yourself it its wrong.

That image is a reality taking place 1995 times a day in Canada... I saw that picture on a sign on the side of the road, no reason it cant be here.

[PdH]

Your reasons for posting it are political. Are we all going to start posting photos of death and mutilation to support our political orientations? Shall I post some disturbing photos of the slaughter of animals, torture, and murder of slaves, etc, etc, etc. Why is it that you religious zealots think you have some monopoly on morality and truth?

[AlladdinSane]

1. Abortion is okay
2. There is no God

/thread.

[CanadianIron]

Your reasons for posting it are political. Are we all going to start posting photos of death and mutilation to support our political orientations? Shall I post some disturbing photos of the slaughter of animals, torture, and murder of slaves, etc, etc, etc. Why is it that you religious zealots think you have some monopoly on morality and truth?

Its not political, its ethical/moral. If people are bothered by the picture, I would assume they share the same view point as myself. Everyone just sees "a few cells"...

The picture relates directly to the discussion, if the thread topic were... should I support dog fighting, I would expect to see people defending animal rights and putting up pictures of dogs that got chewed up.

Im not a religious zealot in anyway, I dont go to church, I dont preach to people on it. Stop making this an argument against christians, the immorality of abortion is universal to all people. Regardless of religion one must accept the existence of universal wrongs, that is my stance on this, abortion is a universal wrong, regardless of the truth behind any religion.

[CanadianIron]

1. Abortion is okay
2. There is no God

/thread.

If you accept no2 as true, than no1 should read "Everything is okay"...

You rationalize something as "okay" by denying the existense of a greater power, making everything "okay"...

[PdH]

Its not political, its ethical/moral.

Are you kidding me? You're attempting to sway people's opinions to that of your own. That's political. Ethical/moral issues are entirely personal. I called you on your moral entrepreneurship once before but you stated you weren't doing any such thing. So which is it?

[CanadianIron]

Politics isnt defined by swaying the opinions of others. Thats called teaching.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics

Either way, bed time. We can continue tommorrow.

[guest]

ever see someone get beat up and not even realize it?

[tex]

.

[gicantor]

Its much safer for the souls of the unborn...

http://remnantradio.org/Mirror/www.jesus-is-savior.com/Evils%20in%20America/Abortion%20is%20Murder/abortion_107.jpg

^^^Is that suppose to scare us or something like we don't know what it looks like? Reminds me when those assholes who protest abortion down st.paul street with their giant posters like that suppose to sway me. I usually just go to the 7/11, get myself a big gulp, and throw it at them. Back in my teens anyway. Good times causing shit.


1. Abortion is okay
2. There is no God

/thread.

I like the way you think Sane.

[kloan]

looks like a baby alien...

[Durk]

Your real life experience?

You mean, the time you heard some kids brain moving around when he shook his head? Your real life experience is a lie. So +1 for me :flagC

I really could care less what you think. I know where I go to work every day, and that doesnt change just because I dont fit into your close minded world.

Instead of making yourself look like the complete goof that you are, how about you volunteer some of your time to help kids with FAS to see what the severe cases look like. Unless of course you would like to remain being the out of site out of mind hypocrite that you are.

What about what I said is so rediculous? Its a 13 y/o kid with the mentality of a 4 y/o because of FAS. Not that I am his doctor, but he told me his head made sounds when he shook it (kind of like a game to him I guess). He showed me and it sounded like something was moving in his head. Can an undeveloped brain make a noise inside of a skull? I dont know enough about the anatomy to make any real conclusion on that, but I know what I heard. What I do know is this kid was never abuse once in his life, but will always be on enough meds to tranquilize an elaphant. He will spend the rest of his life in a psych ward once hes old enough for admitance, all becuase his mom chose to drink while pregnant.

Why arent you adopting all of these kids, and raising them with your own Saint CanadianIron?

[Dryvrgrl]

looks like a baby alien...

X2
I wouldn't want that in me!! looks groser than how it looked when it went in the hole!... eeww

If a woman was going to abort a baby, then decided not to, and the kid becomes a teenager and is a REAL little asshole (say it turnes into one of the "crack whore" sluts you all like talking about who has muyltitude abortions... can the mom sue the anti abortion org. for false advertisement... because that life isn't really beautiful

[cog]

1. Abortion is okay
2. There is no God

/thread.

I see that the kommie educators are making great strides in moulding the minds of the masses.

[tiramisu]

Seeing as this thread has become a random bitch fest just want to point out that you are all gay except dryvrgrl.

Carry on.

[L3]

Its much safer for the souls of the unborn...

GROSS ****ING PIC


dude what the **** is wrong with your head?!? why would you post that? hello ignore function.

[natenator]

Religion does not dictate my morals, my morals are based on my conscience. If you read into christianity you would know that none of this is covered and most of the material people use to back their opinion is taken out of context. I have no biblical backing for my opinion.

My opinion is based on my feelings regarding the subject. Call me a wimp or whatever, but I have compassion for the unborn and the though of abortion actually makes me feel bad. I watched my own child develop from a few cells into a beautiful baby and my opinion is in the best interest of life.

Whatever injustice happens beyond my circle doesnt really effect me and although the thought of women all over this place killing their babies bothers me, I will live on.

To me, its just wrong. You're using a vacuum to dismember a living, developing person and you're interupting its chance at life. To me, on a moral level, its murder and I have every right to voice that at my discresion. If I offend you or your girl, sad story.
It may be wrong but let me tell you what is right... a baseball bat to your head and I will ****ing applaud the person and buy them a beer who does it.

You are trash.

[cog]

dude what the **** is wrong with your head?!? why would you post that? hello ignore function.

This is why the Nazis banned the Einsatzgruppen from taking pics and sending them back home.They didn't want people to see the reality.

[cog]

[QUOTE=natenator;351798]It may be wrong but let me tell you what is right... a baseball bat to your head and I will ****ing applaud the person and buy them a beer who does it.


You are trash.[/
So he said it.Shoot him.

[cog]

Seeing as this thread has become a random bitch fest just want to point out that you are all gay except dryvrgrl.

Carry on.

Whatever you say daddy bear.;)

[RagingRandy]

Your reasons for posting it are political. Are we all going to start posting photos of death and mutilation to support our political orientations? Shall I post some disturbing photos of the slaughter of animals, torture, and murder of slaves, etc, etc, etc. Why is it that you religious zealots think you have some monopoly on morality and truth?

Maybe we do have something we can butt heads with after all. I support CI's position. I too am a Christian but did not support abortion even prior to my conversion.

This for me is not political in any way. It is purely a moral conviction. The value of human life has been diminished and continues to be diminished. PETA opposes the slaughtering of chickens by KFC and many people support their initiatives. They draw a direct comparison to this and the Holocaust in Germany. The life of a chicken and the life of a human can not be compared.

Whether people want to admit it or not your religious beliefs do have a bearing on your moral compass. This includes people who do not believe in God. Believing there is no God is a religious belief and will affect your moral compass. If there is a God you understand there is a greater power to answer to and act likewise. The converse is also true.

The things you list regarding the photo most are morally reprehensible, as is abortion. I am glad you made the connection.

The ultimate question regarding truth is "Is there an absolute truth or does it vary?" If there is is an absolute truth then it seems to me that the truth had an origin from outside ourselves. If truth varies how can we know or should we even care what truth is? My truth may be different than your truth. Who decides what truth to follow, the masses, the strongest?

[waderow]

^^^Is that suppose to scare us or something like we don't know what it looks like? Reminds me when those assholes who protest abortion down st.paul street with their giant posters like that suppose to sway me. I usually just go to the 7/11, get myself a big gulp, and throw it at them. Back in my teens anyway. Good times causing shit.



I like the way you think Sane.

thats the reality of it my friend. not meant to scare I am sure, but illustrate the disgusting act of abortion

[waderow]

Your reasons for posting it are political. Are we all going to start posting photos of death and mutilation to support our political orientations? Shall I post some disturbing photos of the slaughter of animals, torture, and murder of slaves, etc, etc, etc. Why is it that you religious zealots think you have some monopoly on morality and truth?

you support abortion right? then have a look see at the pic, and quit your bitching about it. This is what you support

[waderow]

I really could care less what you think. I know where I go to work every day, and that doesnt change just because I dont fit into your close minded world.

Instead of making yourself look like the complete goof that you are, how about you volunteer some of your time to help kids with FAS to see what the severe cases look like. Unless of course you would like to remain being the out of site out of mind hypocrite that you are.

What about what I said is so rediculous? Its a 13 y/o kid with the mentality of a 4 y/o because of FAS. Not that I am his doctor, but he told me his head made sounds when he shook it (kind of like a game to him I guess). He showed me and it sounded like something was moving in his head. Can an undeveloped brain make a noise inside of a skull? I dont know enough about the anatomy to make any real conclusion on that, but I know what I heard. What I do know is this kid was never abuse once in his life, but will always be on enough meds to tranquilize an elaphant. He will spend the rest of his life in a psych ward once hes old enough for admitance, all becuase his mom chose to drink while pregnant.

Why arent you adopting all of these kids, and raising them with your own Saint CanadianIron?

lol. you were not hearing his brain bouncing around.,... that I can sign my name too. lol

[waderow]

X2
I wouldn't want that in me!! looks groser than how it looked when it went in the hole!... eeww

If a woman was going to abort a baby, then decided not to, and the kid becomes a teenager and is a REAL little asshole (say it turnes into one of the "crack whore" sluts you all like talking about who has muyltitude abortions... can the mom sue the anti abortion org. for false advertisement... because that life isn't really beautiful

raise your kid better

[waderow]

It may be wrong but let me tell you what is right... a baseball bat to your head and I will ****ing applaud the person and buy them a beer who does it.

You are trash.

can you explain why murdering CI is the right thing to do here Nate? did you survive an abortion or something? wtf man...speak of trash :(

[RagingRandy]

X2
I wouldn't want that in me!! looks groser than how it looked when it went in the hole!... eeww

If a woman was going to abort a baby, then decided not to, and the kid becomes a teenager and is a REAL little asshole (say it turnes into one of the "crack whore" sluts you all like talking about who has muyltitude abortions... can the mom sue the anti abortion org. for false advertisement... because that life isn't really beautiful

Can a men and woman sue Morgentaler for Post-Abortion Syndrome?

[natenator]

can you explain why murdering CI is the right thing to do here Nate? did you survive an abortion or something? wtf man...speak of trash :(
who said anything about murder? You extrapolate far to much.

And who said I agree with abortion? I may not agree with it but for extreme situations like rape or incest yet that doesn't mean I feel the need to force my views on someone to tell them what is right for their body. That's like someone telling me I shouldn't use steroids - who are they to tell me what to do with my body?

[waderow]

who said anything about murder? You extrapolate far to much.

And who said I agree with abortion? I may not agree with it but for extreme situations like rape or incest yet that doesn't mean I feel the need to force my views on someone to tell them what is right for their body. That's like someone telling me I shouldn't use steroids - who are they to tell me what to do with my body?

the dude isnt forcing anything. He is speaking his mind to a bunch of other guys speaking their minds. He posted a picture of what the contested people in this debate are supporting. good for him. Not too many people can stomach the truth

you said he needed a baseball bat to the head and you would applaud and buy a drink for the guy who did it. pretty harsh. You should have said "I am going to pull your pants down and give you a bare bum, spanking over my knee"...or something like thjat

[natenator]

the dude isnt forcing anything. He is speaking his mind to a bunch of other guys speaking their minds. He posted a picture of what the contested people in this debate are supporting. good for him. Not too many people can stomach the truth

you said he needed a baseball bat to the head and you would applaud and buy a drink for the guy who did it. pretty harsh. You should have said "I am going to pull your pants down and give you a bare bum, spanking over my knee"...or something like thjat
The pic wasn't justified. I am now going to go and post pics of animals being beaten, zapped and a host of other things just to hit home the reality of animal abuse. I'm pretty sure no one will like that but hey, since you support pics in support of a debate then let's have at'er!

Harsh, sure? But pretty sure I can dig up some fairly harsh things you've written as well. Pot -> Kettle -> Black.

[waderow]

The pic wasn't justified. I am now going to go and post pics of animals being beaten, zapped and a host of other things just to hit home the reality of animal abuse. I'm pretty sure no one will like that but hey, since you support pics in support of a debate then let's have at'er!

Harsh, sure? But pretty sure I can dig up some fairly harsh things you've written as well. Pot -> Kettle -> Black.

go hard. dig up anything you can on me. If this was a debate on animal abuse and some one was mentally challenged enough to be arguing that it is okay to pour boiling water on your dog for barking, then I would probably post a pic of a scalded dog to further drive my point home.

If you are going to support abortion as a mean of birth control, then you should be forced to see one take place.

Like you, I do support abortion in case of rape, or as a form of euthanasia on severely handicapped fetuses, or in cases of life threatening circumstances to mom. As a form of birth control by these slutty whores running around, it disgusts me. I know a girl who is 20 that has had three abortions. Garbage. I also know a girl who is 21 who was rapped by a ******, and had an abortion. That is acceptable to me.

[RagingRandy]

The pic wasn't justified. I am now going to go and post pics of animals being beaten, zapped and a host of other things just to hit home the reality of animal abuse. I'm pretty sure no one will like that but hey, since you support pics in support of a debate then let's have at'er!

Harsh, sure? But pretty sure I can dig up some fairly harsh things you've written as well. Pot -> Kettle -> Black.

The difference is that I do not hear anyone trying to justify animal cruelty. If there were, a pic could be appropriate.

[PdH]

Maybe we do have something we can butt heads with after all.

Actually Bro, nothing here to butt heads about. I pretty much agree with everything you've written. I do believe in a higher power, just not the organized one. What I have an issue with are simplistic notions of morality, right, wrong, and truth. In my mind, those who blindly follow an ancient text are simply looking for the easiest way to exist. No need for contemplation, personal struggle, painstaking deliberation of the profound. One needs only to consider what they'll wear on a given day and what they'll eat for breakfast. Seems like a bit of a slight against the wondrous brain God gifted us with don't you think?

In regard to the matter of abortion, I personally don't believe I, or anyone else, has the divine authority to dictate what others should be doing with their bodies. It's their body, the only thing they can really consider theirs, yet some would violate the sacredness of that with cheap musings about morality and the word of God, as though they are some ecclesiastic appointee. At what point do the spiritual rights of an individual become desecrated? In my opinion, it occurs when others attempt to intervene in the wholly personal choices of an individual. The individual has the inherent right to experience the consequences of those choices.

In regard to fetus rights, they may exist, they may not, but, being that they are entirely innocent life forms, they will go to what Christians call heaven would they not? If heaven is so glorious and where we are suppose to strive to get to, what's the problem? If heaven exists, I'm sure it's a better place than here for the most part.

[waderow]

Actually Bro, nothing here to butt heads about. I pretty much agree with everything you've written. I do believe in a higher power, just not the organized one. What I have an issue with are simplistic notions of morality, right, wrong, and truth. In my mind, those who blindly follow an ancient text are simply looking for the easiest way to exist. No need for contemplation, personal struggle, painstaking deliberation of the profound. One needs only to consider what they'll wear on a given day and what they'll eat for breakfast. Seems like a bit of a slight against the wondrous brain God gifted us with don't you think?

In regard to the matter of abortion, I personally don't believe I, or anyone else, has the divine authority to dictate what others should be doing with their bodies. It's their body, the only thing they can really consider theirs, yet some would violate the sacredness of that with cheap musings about morality and the word of God, as though they are some ecclesiastic appointee. At what point do the spiritual rights of an individual become desecrated? In my opinion, it occurs when others attempt to intervene in the wholly personal choices of an individual. The individual has the inherent right to experience the consequences of those choices.

In regard to fetus rights, they may exist, they may not, but, being that they are entirely innocent life forms, they will go to what Christians call heaven would they not? If heaven is so glorious and where we are suppose to strive to get to, what's the problem? If heaven exists, I'm sure it's a better place than here for the most part.

all religious bull shit aside....

you think killing the fetus by abortion is okay? forget heaven and bibles. just you. Your gut. Civilization. Society. Is it okay? Is there no ramifications for doing such a thing?

[PdH]

you support abortion right? then have a look see at the pic, and quit your bitching about it. This is what you support

Give me a break Waderow. I'm not some privileged white upper middle class kid. I've seen and experienced things most couldn't contemplate. In fact, most that have been through the things I have are either homeless, in prison, or dead by their own hand.

If you want to address me intellectually, you'll need to do much better than that.

[PdH]

all religious bull shit aside....

you think killing the fetus by abortion is okay? forget heaven and bibles. just you. Your gut. Civilization. Society. Is it okay? Is there no ramifications for doing such a thing?

I think we have more significant things to worry about, such as the state of the living, as in those who have been born and are breathing air. I do not think a fetus is a fully functioning being with consciousness. Maybe having grown up on a farm which required me to kill a multitude of things either out of necessity or humaneness has provided me with a different perspective.

You can settle down, no one is going to try to kill your baby.

[waderow]

Give me a break Waderow. I'm not some privileged white upper middle class kid. I've seen and experienced things most couldn't contemplate. In fact, most that have been through the things I have are either homeless, in prison, or dead by their own hand.

If you want to address me intellectually, you'll need to do much better than that.

neither am I. I too have seen many harsh things in my life, perhaps not on the scale that you are describing, but nonetheless.... I have life experience. Using your upbringing, or lack of, to support an indifference to the a fetus? You will have to do much better than that.


I think we have more significant things to worry about, such as the state of the living, as in those who have been born and are breathing air. I do not think a fetus is a fully functioning being with consciousness. Maybe having grown up on a farm which required me to kill a multitude of things either out of necessity or humaneness has provided me with a different perspective.

You can settle down, no one is going to try to kill your baby.

I have killed my own food from age 15 on, and had it killed by my Dad etc. before that. I have experience on the farm as well.
I still have compassion, and understand that strong men need to stand up for the completely innocent, because I know that weak men (liberals) will not be doing so.

And you are right, No one will kill my baby

[RagingRandy]

Actually Bro, nothing here to butt heads about. I pretty much agree with everything you've written. I do believe in a higher power, just not the organized one. What I have an issue with are simplistic notions of morality, right, wrong, and truth. In my mind, those who blindly follow an ancient text are simply looking for the easiest way to exist. No need for contemplation, personal struggle, painstaking deliberation of the profound. One needs only to consider what they'll wear on a given day and what they'll eat for breakfast. Seems like a bit of a slight against the wondrous brain God gifted us with don't you think?

In regard to the matter of abortion, I personally don't believe I, or anyone else, has the divine authority to dictate what others should be doing with their bodies. It's their body, the only thing they can really consider theirs, yet some would violate the sacredness of that with cheap musings about morality and the word of God, as though they are some ecclesiastic appointee. At what point do the spiritual rights of an individual become desecrated? In my opinion, it occurs when others attempt to intervene in the wholly personal choices of an individual. The individual has the inherent right to experience the consequences of those choices.

In regard to fetus rights, they may exist, they may not, but, being that they are entirely innocent life forms, they will go to what Christians call heaven would they not? If heaven is so glorious and where we are suppose to strive to get to, what's the problem? If heaven exists, I'm sure it's a better place than here for the most part.

I do not believe God has asked us to "check our brains at the door" so to speak. I believe the Bible helps with our moral compass and teaches us basic moral principles.

I believe where we diverge is that I believe a fetus is an individual as such. The fetus\child is a unique entity. It is not part of the mother but individual from her. It also not only carries her DNA but the DNA of the father making it a separate entity. As the child does not have a voice of it's own does this make it less of a person, worthy of protection?

What you are advocating is the mother can assert control over the life of a child as opposed to the state asserting protection for the child.

Even if one was to argue, though incorrectly, that the fetus was simply an appendage not unlike a nose or finger do you not think the state would step in to protect someone that was removing fingers from their body?

[natenator]

Wade: are you saying you believe abortion should be made illegal by legislation?

[CanadianIron]

It may be wrong but let me tell you what is right... a baseball bat to your head and I will ****ing applaud the person and buy them a beer who does it.

You are trash.


What an irony... the most cliche picture of a caveman... a fat ogre holding a piece of wood the shape of a bat... you represent yourself well.

[PdH]

Using your upbringing, or lack of, to support an indifference the a fetus? You will have to do much better than that.

No indifference, just long painful contemplation on my own morality fused with what we consider to be scientific fact. If I thought the fetus was a conscious entity then I would feel differently. That said, I do believe there is a point when they do become conscious and require legal protections.

[CanadianIron]

I do not believe God has asked us to "check our brains at the door" so to speak. I believe the Bible helps with our moral compass and teaches us basic moral principles.

I believe where we diverge is that I believe a fetus is an individual as such. The fetus\child is a unique entity. It is not part of the mother but individual from her. It also not only carries her DNA but the DNA of the father making it a separate entity. As the child does not have a voice of it's own does this make it less of a person, worthy of protection?

What you are advocating is the mother can assert control over the life of a child as opposed to the state asserting protection for the child.

Even if one was to argue, though incorrectly, that the fetus was simply an appendage not unlike a nose or finger do you not think the state would step in to protect someone that was removing fingers from their body?

I would rep you, but I have to spread it around.

Its reassuring to know that Im not the only one who bases my morals on something other than the laws of those who are only existing to serve themselves. Same for you Wade.

I think at the end of the day, we are trying to make this a moral issue and those opposed are trying to make it political. Examine your on conscience and decide for yourself based on the matter as to whether or not it is immoral, forget law, forget religion. Concider the situations of all women and their motives when committing the act and dont base your opinion on the one crackhead who aborts a baby. Think about the healthy young girl who COULD support the baby but chooses not for selfish reasons.

[waderow]

Wade: are you saying you believe abortion should be made illegal by legislation?

for a method of birth control between consenting adults, I would have to say yes.

[natenator]

for a method of birth control between consenting adults, I would have to say yes.
So you support more Government regulation thus giving up personal free will. Sounds like liberal speak to me...

[waderow]

No indifference, just long painful contemplation on my own morality fused with what we consider to be scientific fact. If I thought the fetus was a conscious entity then I would feel differently. That said, I do believe there is a point when they do become conscious and require legal protections.

and according to scientific fact, when would you say a fetus becomes a conscious entity?

[CanadianIron]

No indifference, just long painful contemplation on my own morality fused with what we consider to be scientific fact. If I thought the fetus was a conscious entity then I would feel differently. That said, I do believe there is a point when they do become conscious and require legal protections.

Well then I think you would agree that abortion laws in Canada should change. As of right now, a woman in Canada could walk into a clinic at 8 months, the doctor could cut open her stomach, the baby could literally LOOK at him while he kills him/her.

[PdH]

I do not believe God has asked us to "check our brains at the door" so to speak. I believe the Bible helps with our moral compass and teaches us basic moral principles. I believe where we diverge is that I believe a fetus is an individual as such. The fetus\child is a unique entity. It is not part of the mother but individual from her. It also not only carries her DNA but the DNA of the father making it a separate entity. As the child does not have a voice of it's own does this make it less of a person, worthy of protection? What you are advocating is the mother can assert control over the life of a child as opposed to the state asserting protection for the child. Even if one was to argue, though incorrectly, that the fetus was simply an appendage not unlike a nose or finger do you not think the state would step in to protect someone that was removing fingers from their body?

The issue for me is that the consequences of birth are far more profound than the removal of an appendage. 100s of unwanted children are born into hell on a daily basis. They suffer abuse that staggers the mind. Do you have any idea how many "parents" in this country prostitute their own children? We like to think all children can just handily be put up for adoption and then live happy, fulfilling lives. Unfortunately this ideal is a pipe dream, things are a little more complicated.

[waderow]

So you support more Government regulation thus giving up personal free will. Sounds like liberal speak to me...

laws protecting the weak have nothing to do with liberalism or conservatism.

If you take away all the laws, I guess we could just go blow up all the abortion clinics, kill the rapists, euthanize the retarded, and then viola! shangri-la

[waderow]

The issue for me is that the consequences of birth are far more profound than the removal of an appendage. 100s of unwanted children are born into hell on a daily basis. They suffer abuse that staggers the mind. Do you have any idea how many "parents" in this country prostitute their own children? We like to think all children can just handily be put up for adoption and then live happy, fulfilling lives. Unfortunately this ideal is a pipe dream, things are a little more complicated.

so clamp down on the parents. not the children

[RagingRandy]

Well then I think you would agree that abortion laws in Canada should change. As of right now, a woman in Canada could walk into a clinic at 8 months, the doctor could cut open her stomach, the baby could literally LOOK at him while he kills him/her.

I have made this point already. This is truly disturbing.

[CanadianIron]

The issue for me is that the consequences of birth are far more profound than the removal of an appendage. 100s of unwanted children are born into hell on a daily basis. They suffer abuse that staggers the mind. Do you have any idea how many "parents" in this country prostitute their own children? We like to think all children can just handily be put up for adoption and then live happy, fulfilling lives. Unfortunately this ideal is a pipe dream, things are a little more complicated.

You are the most negative person I know... people arent this bad and the majority of people out there today are not molesting and beating their own children.

We're talking about 18 year old girls who abort their babies so they wont have to quit their job at the keg. Crack whores encompass 1% of this argument and even I will admit that if a baby is going to be born all mutilated and retarded there are circumstances that could call for abortion. But cutting up perfectly healthy babies that have a fighting chance isnt fair.

SOO many people want and choose to have kids and all the bad stuff happens to them, abortion has nothing to do with your post.

[PdH]

and according to scientific fact, when would you say a fetus becomes a conscious entity?

At the point in which the fetus can survive outside a woman's body and exhibit what is written in bold below.

A simple definition of consciousness is sensory awareness of the body, the self, and the world. The fetus may be aware of the body, for example by perceiving pain. It reacts to touch, smell, and sound, and shows facial expressions responding to external stimuli. However, these reactions are probably preprogrammed and have a subcortical nonconscious origin. Furthermore, the fetus is almost continuously asleep and unconscious partially due to endogenous sedation. Conversely, the newborn infant can be awake, exhibit sensory awareness, and process memorized mental representations. It is also able to differentiate between self and nonself touch, express emotions, and show signs of shared feelings. Yet, it is unreflective, present oriented, and makes little reference to concept of him/herself.

[natenator]

laws protecting the weak have nothing to do with liberalism or conservatism.

If you take away all the laws, I guess we could just go blow up all the abortion clinics, kill the rapists, euthanize the retarded, and then viola! shangri-la
It's not about protecting the weak it's about doing what WE feel is right for US. I'm in agreement with you on abortion being wrong but for extreme circumstances but I feel it is wrong for Government to tell us what we can and cannot do with our bodies just as I feel it is wrong for a person to tell me taking steroids is wrong or snorting coke is wrong.

As adults we should be empowered to make decisions about our bodies and lives. There are natural laws and unnatural laws. Laws with advocated against personal freedom and choice are unnatural.

[CanadianIron]

I have made this point already. This is truly disturbing.

Concider this, they just found a dead baby in the landfill here in Vancouver, a 20 year old girl kept her pregnancy a secret and had the baby and disposed of it herself... THIS... makes first page news and gets all over the TV while they montage all these people saying how disgusting and vial this is and they charge the woman with murder and performing an indecent act on a dead body....

[waderow]

At the point in which the fetus can survive outside a woman's body and exhibit what is written in bold below.

A simple definition of consciousness is sensory awareness of the body, the self, and the world. The fetus may be aware of the body, for example by perceiving pain. It reacts to touch, smell, and sound, and shows facial expressions responding to external stimuli. However, these reactions are probably preprogrammed and have a subcortical nonconscious origin. Furthermore, the fetus is almost continuously asleep and unconscious partially due to endogenous sedation. Conversely, the newborn infant can be awake, exhibit sensory awareness, and process memorized mental representations. It is also able to differentiate between self and nonself touch, express emotions, and show signs of shared feelings. Yet, it is unreflective, present oriented, and makes little reference to concept of him/herself.

thats a disgusting cold look at it bro. My baby was moving around sucking his foot and thumb and reacting to light and sound many weeks ago. Would he have survived a birth or c-section? probably not.

that is the logic of a sociopath

[CanadianIron]

At the point in which the fetus can survive outside a woman's body and exhibit what is written in bold below.

A simple definition of consciousness is sensory awareness of the body, the self, and the world. The fetus may be aware of the body, for example by perceiving pain. It reacts to touch, smell, and sound, and shows facial expressions responding to external stimuli. However, these reactions are probably preprogrammed and have a subcortical nonconscious origin. Furthermore, the fetus is almost continuously asleep and unconscious partially due to endogenous sedation. Conversely, the newborn infant can be awake, exhibit sensory awareness, and process memorized mental representations. It is also able to differentiate between self and nonself touch, express emotions, and show signs of shared feelings. Yet, it is unreflective, present oriented, and makes little reference to concept of him/herself.


This definition doesnt differentiate between a born or unborn baby. A born baby is going to exude a lot of the same characteristics for some time. 2 day old babies are unreflective, present oriented and have no concept on themselves.

My baby came out with here eyes open. I saw the transition, she was alive and well days/weeks before she came out.

Your rational also encompasses the mentally retarded/injured. We gonna start killing off old/sick/retarded people now?

[CanadianIron]

It's not about protecting the weak it's about doing what WE feel is right for US. I'm in agreement with you on abortion being wrong but for extreme circumstances but I feel it is wrong for Government to tell us what we can and cannot do with our bodies just as I feel it is wrong for a person to tell me taking steroids is wrong or snorting coke is wrong.

As adults we should be empowered to make decisions about our bodies and lives. There are natural laws and unnatural laws. Laws with advocated against personal freedom and choice are unnatural.

The stance we're taking and the only reason people feel so strongly towards the subject is because when you become pregnant your body is no long your own. You are now carrying another human and you have the moral obligation to take care of it.

We arent trying to tell women what to do with their bodies, we're trying to tell woman what they CANNOT do to another body.... the body of another person inside them.

[waderow]

It's not about protecting the weak it's about doing what WE feel is right for US. I'm in agreement with you on abortion being wrong but for extreme circumstances but I feel it is wrong for Government to tell us what we can and cannot do with our bodies just as I feel it is wrong for a person to tell me taking steroids is wrong or snorting coke is wrong.

As adults we should be empowered to make decisions about our bodies and lives. There are natural laws and unnatural laws. Laws with advocated against personal freedom and choice are unnatural.

if i feel it is in my best interest to blow up the home depot (my competition) here in town, and everybody in it for eith A: workign there or B: supporting the box store giant

Am I right? or am I a criminal. I dont need the government telling me what to do.

If you want to just have your statement pertaining to our bodies, then you have to decide if the fetus is your body as an appendage, or a baby. I believe it is a baby, and is in fact its own body

[PdH]

I have made this point already. This is truly disturbing.

Ok, now you guys are simply twisting facts for your own means. In Canada 90% of abortions take place during the first 12 weeks, 9% between 12 and 20, 0.4% after 20 and those must be in situations where the fetus is fatally impaired or the woman's life or health are at risk.

[waderow]

The stance we're taking and the only reason people feel so strongly towards the subject is because when you become pregnant your body is no long your own. You are now carrying another human and you have the moral obligation to take care of it.

We arent trying to tell women what to do with their bodies, we're trying to tell woman what they CANNOT do to another body.... the body of another person inside them.

great point and well said

[natenator]

The stance we're taking and the only reason people feel so strongly towards the subject is because when you become pregnant your body is no long your own. You are now carrying another human and you have the moral obligation to take care of it.

We arent trying to tell women what to do with their bodies, we're trying to tell woman what they CANNOT do to another body.... the body of another person inside them.
You fail to understand that I agree with abortion being wrong as a means for birth control but I prefer to side with PERSONAL FREEDOM and CHOICE.

You cannot have your cake and eat it too. You can't say that abortion should be illegal but believe steroids should be legal.

[PdH]

This definition doesnt differentiate between a born or unborn baby. A born baby is going to exude a lot of the same characteristics for some time. 2 day old babies are unreflective, present oriented and have no concept on themselves.

My baby came out with here eyes open. I saw the transition, she was alive and well days/weeks before she came out.

Your rational also encompasses the mentally retarded/injured. We gonna start killing off old/sick/retarded people now?

Actually, my rational reflects those in comas or unable to breath on their own, and yes, we pull the plug on these people all the time. Most often others decide their fate.

[RagingRandy]

The issue for me is that the consequences of birth are far more profound than the removal of an appendage. 100s of unwanted children are born into hell on a daily basis. They suffer abuse that staggers the mind. Do you have any idea how many "parents" in this country prostitute their own children? We like to think all children can just handily be put up for adoption and then live happy, fulfilling lives. Unfortunately this ideal is a pipe dream, things are a little more complicated.

I understand your point and it is valid. I am unsure that your point that unwanted children are born considering the lack of abortion regulation in Canada. But like in the judicial system some innocent people are sent to jail. This is not fair but we do not allow anarchy to make sure innocent people do not go to jail.

Do you know how many aborted children would be willingly adopted? How many women simply abort out of convenience? These questions are as difficult to quantify as yours regarding prostitution. However, it seems to me that children who are prostituted are wanted, at least initially.

[waderow]

Actually, my rational reflects those in comas or unable to breath on their own, and yes, we pull the plug on these people all the time. Most often others decide their fate.

if those people had a 99% chance of coming out of their coma or condition in a few months, would the plug be pulled? try again Pdh

[natenator]

if i feel it is in my best interest to blow up the home depot (my competition) here in town, and everybody in it for eith A: workign there or B: supporting the box store giant

Am I right? or am I a criminal. I dont need the government telling me what to do.

If you want to just have your statement pertaining to our bodies, then you have to decide if the fetus is your body as an appendage, or a baby. I believe it is a baby, and is in fact its own body
Well thankfully I side on science when it comes to when a fetus is actually a person and therefore natural laws concerning the murder of another isn't a concern in this case but it is in the case of your home depot scenario. Have fun in prison! Say hi to bubba... lol

[PdH]

so clamp down on the parents. not the children

Waderow, think past the first thought that pops in your mind. The issue isn't about the parents, it's about the children. Sure, take them from their parents and put them in foster care to suffer similar horrors. I guess that's my sociopath talking.

Anyway, I see where this is headed so I'm out. I simply agree to disagree.

[RagingRandy]

Ok, now you guys are simply twisting facts for your own means. In Canada 90% of abortions take place during the first 12 weeks, 9% between 12 and 20, 0.4% after 20 and those must be in situations where the fetus is fatally impaired or the woman's life or health are at risk.
If this is the case please post the legislation that deals with this. As this is not my understanding of it. It is not fact twisting it is a possible outcome of the legislation as written. If you want me to leave out extreme cases please leave out your extreme cases such as prostitution, rape, and incest.

[PdH]

if those people had a 99% chance of coming out of their coma or condition in a few months, would the plug be pulled? try again Pdh

K, last one. We're talking about a state of consciousness. Keep up.

[waderow]

K, last one. We're talking about a state of consciousness. Keep up.

right, and the baby WILL become normal, and healthy, and conscious in a few months.

The vegetables you are using to justify your argument are brain dead. They are machine ventilated slabs of meat.

you cannot compare a fetus to a brain dead person

[CanadianIron]

You fail to understand that I agree with abortion being wrong as a means for birth control but I prefer to side with PERSONAL FREEDOM and CHOICE.

You cannot have your cake and eat it too. You can't say that abortion should be illegal but believe steroids should be legal.

I want abortion to be illegal because I dont want women murdering the unborn child that lies within their womb.

I dont think the Canadian government has any say in what I choose to consume because this is my body and no one lives inside it.

If they would have let me mother kill me in her womb, why wouldnt they let me take a few years off my own life with something that I want to take.

[CanadianIron]

Ok, now you guys are simply twisting facts for your own means. In Canada 90% of abortions take place during the first 12 weeks, 9% between 12 and 20, 0.4% after 20 and those must be in situations where the fetus is fatally impaired or the woman's life or health are at risk.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_in_Canada


Canada is one of only a few nations with no legal restrictions on abortion. Regulations and accessibility vary between provinces.

[natenator]

I want abortion to be illegal because I dont want women murdering the unborn child that lies within their womb.

I dont think the Canadian government has any say in what I choose to consume because this is my body and no one lives inside it.

If they would have let me mother kill me in her womb, why wouldnt they let me take a few years off my own life with something that I want to take.
And I want people to have freedom to choose what is best for them and their lives whether I agree with it or not.

[waderow]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_in_Canada

holy shit. I didnt realize that 23% of all pregnancies are aborted.

Thats ****ing disgusting

side note: We wouldnt need so many immigrants if this was not the case

[CanadianIron]

Well thankfully I side on science when it comes to when a fetus is actually a person and therefore natural laws concerning the murder of another isn't a concern in this case but it is in the case of your home depot scenario. Have fun in prison! Say hi to bubba... lol

Wades a pretty smart guy, Id put money on him getting away with it.

Science cannot define moral value and I truly believe we will at some point look back on abortions today and be shocked at how barbaric we are... they wont remain legal forever.

[CanadianIron]

holy shit. I didnt realize that 23% of all pregnancies are aborted.

Thats ****ing disgusting

Buddy, I would have thought it was higher.

I knew a girl in highschool who had 3 abortions before grade 11.

My wife took a fashion course a couple years back and more than half of the girls in her little circle had more than 1 already.

[PdH]

If this is the case please post the legislation that deals with this. As this is not my understanding of it. It is not fact twisting it is a possible outcome of the legislation as written. If you want me to leave out extreme cases please leave out your extreme cases such as prostitution, rape, and incest.

I'd be happy to have a private discussion with you about this Randy as I don't feel comfortable posting in this thread any longer.

[RagingRandy]

And I want people to have freedom to choose what is best for them and their lives whether I agree with it or not.

As a Libertarian at heart I agree that people should have a greater freedom of choice. But as it was pointed out if you believe the fetus\baby is a unique person you would agree that they should be able to determine their own outcome.

[CanadianIron]

www.msnmessenger.com

[waderow]

if you look at the polls, you will see PRO LIFE, and PRO CHOICE. I wonder what the polls would show if it were PRO LIFE, and PRO DEATH

yet another liberal trick

[guest]

http://globalmoxie.com/bm~pix/hamsterguy~s600x600.jpg

[Ritch]

^^^ Ha ha ha...

[buildinthaskinnys]

So let me get this staight, its legal to kill a person (when in this case, person = fetus ) But its illegal for me to purchase and consume drugs of varying effects and pleasures? What a ****ing country!!

[BenT]

I realize this is the off-topic thread, but come on. There are some topics (i.e. abortion, capital punishment, gay marriage, evolution, volume vs. intensity training) that everybody has a strong opinion on and nobody is going to ever going to change their minds.

Why bother even having this discussion?? Who cares what side you are on? Spare us the gruesome images and sh*t.

[AlladdinSane]

The morning after pill.

Discuss.


hehehe

[natenator]

The morning after pill.

Discuss.


hehehe
lol

I heart you

[waderow]

I realize this is the off-topic thread, but come on. There are some topics (i.e. abortion, capital punishment, gay marriage, evolution, volume vs. intensity training) that everybody has a strong opinion on and nobody is going to ever going to change their minds.

Why bother even having this discussion?? Who cares what side you are on? Spare us the gruesome images and sh*t.

so you came here to add another element to the argument? lol


The morning after pill.

Discuss.


hehehe

if you can take a morning after pill, then why cant you be responsible and take the birth control pill?

[ironwill]

so you came here to add another element to the argument? lol



if you can take a morning after pill, then why cant you be responsible and take the birth control pill?

Same thing they both come in oral form, and control a birth......

[CanadianIron]

A morning after pill is just as bad as an 8 month termination IMO.




I realize this is the off-topic thread, but come on. There are some topics (i.e. abortion, capital punishment, gay marriage, evolution, volume vs. intensity training) that everybody has a strong opinion on and nobody is going to ever going to change their minds.

Why bother even having this discussion?? Who cares what side you are on? Spare us the gruesome images and sh*t.

If someone starts a thread advertising the fact that he's in a dilemna that might cost someone their life, then I think its an opportune time to voice an opinion. The guy is obviously too dumb to use birth control so I would assume he hasnt even concidered the reprocussions of what an abortion might mean to him and the girl.

[MMASTAR]

the sad thing is to some, it means nothing.

[CanadianIron]

Same thing they both come in oral form, and control a birth......

You forgot to mention that one devours a soul and the other doesnt.

[mersanary]

You forgot to mention that one devours a soul and the other doesnt.

Wow...

And you should have a shirt printed with that picture of decapitated fetus on it. Wear it everyday so everyone knows were u stand; shove it down everyone else throat so they know that they cant possibly make decisions for themselves as well as you can for them.

[AlladdinSane]

Now, now... Cool your jets, chief.

The MAP, from my understanding, causes an immediate shedding of the uterine lining, weather or not there is a fertilized egg connected to it at that point. So, as it may take upwards of 6-7 days (a sperm's life) to get itself into an egg, having the lining shed right away taking the ingredients of the abomination we know as a fetus out along with it, would not be murder, would it?

[buildinthaskinnys]

Gotta respect the condom!

[CanadianIron]

Wow...

And you should have a shirt printed with that picture of decapitated fetus on it. Wear it everyday so everyone knows were u stand; shove it down everyone else throat so they know that they cant possibly make decisions for themselves as well as you can for them.

Given the pro-life perspective, you have to realize that abortion is offensive as murder. If people began to permit murder, you could expect some pretty hearty opposition.

Most pro-lifers keep their mouths shut because for the most part, people are used to staying out of peoples business and letting other people suffer and die.. people suffer and die in Africa all day long and none of us do anything about it. But the moral issues still exist and while its still happening in my backyard, its closer to home and I'm more likely to make it my business.

[CanadianIron]

Now, now... Cool your jets, chief.

The MAP, from my understanding, causes an immediate shedding of the uterine lining, weather or not there is a fertilized egg connected to it at that point. So, as it may take upwards of 6-7 days (a sperm's life) to get itself into an egg, having the lining shed right away taking the ingredients of the abomination we know as a fetus out along with it, would not be murder, would it?


The MAP is a post preventitive measure... the wheels are already in motion and you're pulling the carpet out from under. I still see it as wrong. Preventing sperm/egg contact is IMO the only form of morally appropriate birth control, by whatever means you may choose.

[AlladdinSane]

Ever blown a load on your wife? There you are, having the vaginal intercourse that is God's way of propelling the species (quite a sacred act, actually, meant for procreation) and then BAM! you pull out and fire hose in her face. That sounds like putting the brakes on "wheels in motion" to me...

[ironwill]

Now, now... Cool your jets, chief.

The MAP, from my understanding, causes an immediate shedding of the uterine lining, weather or not there is a fertilized egg connected to it at that point. So, as it may take upwards of 6-7 days (a sperm's life) to get itself into an egg, having the lining shed right away taking the ingredients of the abomination we know as a fetus out along with it, would not be murder, would it?

Werd....There isnt any soul 12 or 24 hours after a drunken orgy.
A week later is a different debate, maybe Canadian iron, you need to take sex education with Soe johannsen, or sexxxy Dr. Ruth....Guaranteed, so its the same as birth control......Plus you never know anyways, because its over before it starts........

[icey_boi]

WOW!
How the hell did i not notice this thread till now!?! LOL

[guest]

^^ hahaha that reminds me! :)

Everyone here should sit down, brace yourselves, and watch this video! haha enjoy!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bqg_ceFM30I

you just saved this thread.

[Big D]

^^ hahaha that reminds me! :)

Everyone here should sit down, brace yourselves, and watch this video! haha enjoy!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bqg_ceFM30I

hahahah how the **** did you find that lol

[LonelyBedouin]

^^ hahaha that reminds me! :)

Everyone here should sit down, brace yourselves, and watch this video! haha enjoy!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bqg_ceFM30I

OMG "The man that is living to ejaculate, he is in predator mode. He is going to look for weaknesses, a vagina that is lonely, that is cold. A girl home alone playing with toys herself.... What what what brings a women to toys"

[bossman_1986]

UPDATE

her period was never late, the bitch was just ****ing with me just so i keep talking to her, she is cut offf now

[MMASTAR]

haha.. what a bitch... **** her in the ass till she cant walk straight.... and cum in her hair.

[Big D]

UPDATE

her period was never late, the bitch was just ****ing with me just so i keep talking to her, she is cut offf now

wow, what a bitch.
you should never hit a girl but maybe get another girl to hit her for you.

[faller]

you should never hit a girl but maybe get another girl to hit her for you.

**** that, some of them have it comeing!!

[kloan]

for real, what a f-in ****.

[gicantor]

That be a crazy bitch.......

[natenator]

why is she a bitch? He ****ed her without a rubber knowing he was going to end it.

If she's a bitch then he's a douchebag.

[faller]

If she's a bitch then he's a douchebag.

Only if you beleive that getting pregnant is the resopnsibility of both partners...

[buildinthaskinnys]

UPDATE

her period was never late, the bitch was just ****ing with me just so i keep talking to her, she is cut offf now

HAHA I basically called it from the beginning, sorry 'bout dat dude thought I would tease you a bit.

[guest]

HAHA I basically called it from the beginning, sorry 'bout dat dude thought I would tease you a bit.

i never would have guessed that outcome.

[pseclint]

you just found out you cant get dudes pregnant, i called it from the start, i knew all he wanted was attention...... be more careful next time bossman