My Supplement Stack...Possibly

[Big Johnny69]

As I mentioned before, by no means am I a hardcore lifter. But I am looking to get myself in better shape, and to me, my workouts are intense enough. I am doing heavier weights and lower reps (usually 8-10 reps per set). After doing lots of reading, I've come to realize that even the less advanced lifter can benefit from the advantages from supplements.

So thanks to this site, and recommendations, I'm in talks with TS in creating a supplement stack for myself. What do you think:

Protein: I'm currently on an off cycle from creatine and my NO, but I'm still working out and needed a protein. I didn't purchase from TS this time, but when I'm out I'll be looking to give their protein a try. Most likely the hyped PB and Choco flavour. I picked up a 5lb tub of Ultimate Nutrition 100% Prostar Whey Protein yesterday to try.

Creatine: I'm leaning towards a Kre-Alkalyn formula this time around. Of course, it is TS' KA. TS is recommending a mono, but I'd like to stay away from the water bloat. Any thoughts on this?

NO: Now here's where it gets interesting. He's recommend I create my own with AAKG and citrulline malate. I've asked him what he thinks of adding beta-alanine to it. I'm looking for a NO that will give me a boost/sustaned energy and a good pump. I'm looking to stay clear of caffeine this time around. Any thoughts? And if this is a good mix (actually need to sort out the mix amount per product), what could I add for flavouring?

BCAA: Going with TS' BCAA powder.

Glutamine: Going with TS' glute powder.

ZMA: Ultimate Nutrition ZMA, and if it works I'll give TS' ZMA a try next time.

Thoughts on my stack? And one question I have: can I mix BCAA and the glute with my protein, or is that overdoing it? I've heard in some cases, taking too many supplements at the same time will lose some of the effectiveness and absorption as the body fights to absorb each product. Any truth to that?

When I am on creatine, I have been taking that immediately after my workout (20-30mins after), then my protein (30-60mins after).

[519Muscle]

To start yes u can and should add bcaa, gluta and creatine immediately to ur post workout shake, i also recommend the creatine mono it is the most researched creatine product and it's proven to work u will only get bloated if u over use it. You should also take the creatine with dextrose so it will get absorbed into the muscle.

As for ur NO product AAKG(arginine alpha-ketoglutarate) has ur essential aminos in it and will give u a great pump in the gym. The citrulline malate is a great energy producer and will also increase ur mental intensity. In my opion those 2 products alsone is a great start. U could take the Beta A but the aakg is almost the same thing.
Let us know how they work..

[Spyder122]

Don't forget the Omega 3's and a Multi-Vitamin.

[Talo]

Personally I think NO products are a waste if money, but lots of people use them and like the pump.

No matter what your going about things the right way by talking with TS. Bulk is always the best.

[flex3d]

I don't think there is a necessity to cycle creatine.

Also, for any kind of supplement you can buy the bulk ingredients and make it yourself so much cheaper.

Creatine: I would go with the Monohydrate. It has been time and time again proven effective. It is very inexpensive. Whatever you do don't purchase Creatine Ethyl Ester (http://www.brinkzone.com/supplement-science/cee-the-poster-child-for-the-graveyard/)

BCAAs: Are apparently great. I have never tried them myself however.

NO: Yes make your own. Much much cheaper and you know exactly how much of what is in your shake. It might taste pretty bad however. Maybe buy some no-carb juice to mix it in. I am not sure of how much of each product to put in for best results however.



Pre-Workout Shake
AAKG (no2): 5g serving ( I believe) $33.26
Citrulline Malate: 10g serving ( I believe) $46.98
Beta-alanine: 5g serving $19.41

AAKG 0.37
Citrulline Malate 1.04
Beta-alanine 0.21
__________________________________
Per Pre WO Shake - $1.62

(Please tell me I am wrong with the Citrulline Malate dosing - it seems very expensive)

Post Workout Shake
50g of Protein (2 scoops usually)(80 servings 5lb) $34.99
Creatine Mono: 1-2 servings (Serving is 5g) (90 servings/lb) $11.75
BCAAs: 1-2 servings (serving is 5g) (90 servings/lb) $24.18
L-Glutamine (1-2servings) (serving is 5g) (90 servings/lb) $16.49

Creatine 0.13 0.26
BCAA 0.27 0.54
Glutamine 0.18 0.36
Protein 0.87 0.87
_________________________________________________
1 Serving 2 Serving
$1.45 per PWO Shake $2.03 per PWO shake




I myself actually just take 10g of creatine + 2 scoops of whey for a PWO. I don't take anything pre-workout except whole foods.

I would cut out Glutamine and BCAAs for your pre-workout shake (they are NO way necessary if your getting enough protein throughout the day...)
If you feel you need a pre-workout shake, go for it. But remember your saying your just beginning... no need to start on every supplement in the world. Most of them hardly have any effect.

[Big Johnny69]

Don't forget the Omega 3's and a Multi-Vitamin.

Forgot to mention, I already take a multi, omega 3 and glucosamine daily.


I don't think there is a necessity to cycle creatine.

Also, for any kind of supplement you can buy the bulk ingredients and make it yourself so much cheaper.

Creatine: I would go with the Monohydrate. It has been time and time again proven effective. It is very inexpensive. Whatever you do don't purchase Creatine Ethyl Ester (http://www.brinkzone.com/supplement-science/cee-the-poster-child-for-the-graveyard/)

BCAAs: Are apparently great. I have never tried them myself however.

NO: Yes make your own. Much much cheaper and you know exactly how much of what is in your shake. It might taste pretty bad however. Maybe buy some no-carb juice to mix it in. I am not sure of how much of each product to put in for best results however.



Pre-Workout Shake
AAKG (no2): 5g serving ( I believe) $33.26
Citrulline Malate: 10g serving ( I believe) $46.98
Beta-alanine: 5g serving $19.41

AAKG 0.37
Citrulline Malate 1.04
Beta-alanine 0.21
__________________________________
Per Pre WO Shake - $1.62

(Please tell me I am wrong with the Citrulline Malate dosing - it seems very expensive)

Post Workout Shake
50g of Protein (2 scoops usually)(80 servings 5lb) $34.99
Creatine Mono: 1-2 servings (Serving is 5g) (90 servings/lb) $11.75
BCAAs: 1-2 servings (serving is 5g) (90 servings/lb) $24.18
L-Glutamine (1-2servings) (serving is 5g) (90 servings/lb) $16.49

Creatine 0.13 0.26
BCAA 0.27 0.54
Glutamine 0.18 0.36
Protein 0.87 0.87
_________________________________________________
1 Serving 2 Serving
$1.45 per PWO Shake $2.03 per PWO shake




I myself actually just take 10g of creatine + 2 scoops of whey for a PWO. I don't take anything pre-workout except whole foods.

I would cut out Glutamine and BCAAs for your pre-workout shake (they are NO way necessary if your getting enough protein throughout the day...)
If you feel you need a pre-workout shake, go for it. But remember your saying your just beginning... no need to start on every supplement in the world. Most of them hardly have any effect.

Thx for the dosage recommendation. Yes, I'm fairly new to this, but I've found over the last 4-6 mths, that the NO really helps me get through the workout. I work 12hr shifts, and some days coming home I just don't have the energy or desire to hit the gym. But taking the NO makes me want to go, otherwise I'll be sitting at home with energy to burn and not doing anything. :)

[Ritch]

For what it`s costing you to make your own pre workout drink (not saying it`s a bad one) it wouldn`t be that much more expensive to just use the greatest one of all time.... No Shotgun by vpx. If you like NO explode by BSN, it now comes in 50 serving containers, but some people need 2 scoops which brings you down to 25.

[Big Johnny69]

For what it`s costing you to make your own pre workout drink (not saying it`s a bad one) it wouldn`t be that much more expensive to just use the greatest one of all time.... No Shotgun by vpx. If you like NO explode by BSN, it now comes in 50 serving containers, but some people need 2 scoops which brings you down to 25.

I still think it's more cost effective to try and make my own. At a price of $50-80, depending on the NO product, and usually only getting about a month's worth, I think this way could be better. If I can come up with the right mix for me, I'm sure I can get 2-3 months out of the products. Thanks for the recommendation, though.

[Big Johnny69]

So, after much delberation, this is what I think I will order from TS:

Protein: 5lb of the Choco/PB (I just bought a 5lb tub, so no rush on it, it will probably be here just in time for a replenishing)

Creatine: 2lbs of the mono

NO: 1lb of AAKG, 1lb of citrulline malate (I'll do some research on the proper amounts per drink. May still consider some beta-alinine and even mixing creatine with it). Now I just need to find something to give it flavour.

BCAA/Glutamine: Going to give these a pass for now.....

Carb: Going to go with either 2lbs of either the dextrose or waxy maize to mix with my creatine post-workout.

Does it look like a good stack?

[Ritch]

Get more protein and dextrose. 5lbs lasts me 2 weeks! The stack looks fine but don`t think using just citruline and AAKG is going to result in muscle growth. Citruline is more of a lactic acid buffer, unless you`re doing high reps and resting short periods, I just don`t see how it`s going to benefit you.

So you`re willing to go through all that hassle to save about .40 to make your own drink compared to using shotgun. If the ingredient profile was close I`d say maybe, but shotgun has all that, and then some... Dosen`t make sense to me dude, but all the best with your stack.

[Big Johnny69]

Get more protein and dextrose. 5lbs lasts me 2 weeks! The stack looks fine but don`t think using just citruline and AAKG is going to result in muscle growth. Citruline is more of a lactic acid buffer, unless you`re doing high reps and resting short periods, I just don`t see how it`s going to benefit you.

So you`re willing to go through all that hassle to save about .40 to make your own drink compared to using shotgun. If the ingredient profile was close I`d say maybe, but shotgun has all that, and then some... Dosen`t make sense to me dude, but all the best with your stack.

According the TS site you get 16 servings per lb. I take a protein in the morning and one post-workout. So a 5lb bag should give me approx. 80 servings which should last me almost two months (as I only take one protein on days I don't workout).

As for the NO mix, using only 5gms each time I make a drink will give me about 100 servings. Good for three months at approx $90, there's no way I'd get 3 months out of a tub of Shotgun or Xplode.

[Ritch]

There`s only 22 grams per scoop. Are you sure that`s enough protein? I don`t think it is unless you weigh 120lbs. So if you don`t take it on off days, are you getting 6 protein rich meals a day from whole food? At least 5 hopefully...

You`re NO drink is cheaper because it has less ingredients. So you`re going to pay $30 a month to use a fraction of what you`ll get from your own drink. But here`s the thing. Say you buy shotgun for $60, and that`s the max price. The can will last you about 7 weeks if you train 4 times a week. That comes to $34 a month. You`re not saving much and you`re giving up alot. And since it`s best to use that product and take a break of say a week after 7 weeks, it`s gonna last you 8 weeks or so. So $60 divided by 8 comes to $30 a month. The same you`re gonna pay with what you wanna do. If that dosen`t make sense to you, then I give up, lol...

Don`t mean to bust your balls with this, and I love TS, and don`t want to take sales away from them, just calling it as I see best.

[#8]

^^ ritch is giving you good advice. you asked for advice and he is helping. i admire that you are trying to make your own cocktail, and it looks decent, but bang for you buck is simply better with his NO shotgun recommendation. i have worked at a supplement store for many years and i have used ALL of the NO combinations. VPX shotgun is one of my fav's and doesnt cause (me) any stomach discomfort or anxiety jitters that some have.

good luck.

PS. Dont mix glutamine with your NO shakes or take over 15g of glut a day while taking NO products. they are intercompetitive amino's and will weaken the effect of each other.

[flex3d]

I agree with the above posters. You are better off purchasing a pre-workout product. The money you will save is minimal and the pre-workout products will be much more effective. They have much better ingredient profile.

As much as I love TS, but to make your own pre-workout shake to the caliber of the ones you can buy will be very costly (and taste harsh)

Perhaps TrueSupplements can make a bulk pre-workout product? :D

[O-Train]

Aside from the protein and creatine I think you would be better off spending your money on food. Scratch that...I know you would.

[Big Johnny69]

There`s only 22 grams per scoop. Are you sure that`s enough protein? I don`t think it is unless you weigh 120lbs. So if you don`t take it on off days, are you getting 6 protein rich meals a day from whole food? At least 5 hopefully...

You`re NO drink is cheaper because it has less ingredients. So you`re going to pay $30 a month to use a fraction of what you`ll get from your own drink. But here`s the thing. Say you buy shotgun for $60, and that`s the max price. The can will last you about 7 weeks if you train 4 times a week. That comes to $34 a month. You`re not saving much and you`re giving up alot. And since it`s best to use that product and take a break of say a week after 7 weeks, it`s gonna last you 8 weeks or so. So $60 divided by 8 comes to $30 a month. The same you`re gonna pay with what you wanna do. If that dosen`t make sense to you, then I give up, lol...

Don`t mean to bust your balls with this, and I love TS, and don`t want to take sales away from them, just calling it as I see best.

Hey, no worries. I appreciate the help. I'm merely just trying to get the basics, no fillers. All I wanted was a pump and some energy, nothing more, nothing less. I'm sure most of ingredients serve a purpose, but I'm sure many don't do much. And I understood your breakdown of value of each product. But best I could find around here in Ottawa for Shotgun is a 588gm tub for $70+tax which only gives me 28 servings, so just over a month's worth. I wish I could find Jack3d, but been to GNC and Popeye's, neither carry it in Ottawa.

I'm all ears on the recommendations guys, keep them coming. Hopefully I can find exactly what I'm looking for, and stay within my budget.

[Big Johnny69]

Aside from the protein and creatine I think you would be better off spending your money on food. Scratch that...I know you would.

What else could, or should we be spending on food? We already purchase lots of fruits and veggies, oatmeal, granola, turkey, lean other meats, yogurts, eggs, whole wheat products.....

[Ritch]

Sometimes some of the sponsors offer these products for discounted prices. Something like 2 for $110, and that usually includes shipping. So if any sponsors are reading this now would be a good time!

[Big Johnny69]

Thanks for all the help. I placed my order with TS last night.

Picked up the following:

5lb Choco/PB whey protein
2lb creatine mono
1lb L-glutamine
1lb Waxy Maize
1lb BCAA powder

I thought long and hard about the making my own NO type of pre-workout drink. In the end I decided to stick with a pre-made drink. Not to say that TS' products don't work, but I didn't want to take the chance that I wouldn't be able to find the right mix to give me what I wanted. And at $80-90 for all the products, it could prove to be a costly experiment, whereas I know the pre-made NOs do work for me. I find the recommended dose is sometimes too much for me (depending on the brand), so I'll probably be able to stretch it out a bit if I can cut back on the serving.

So this is the plan:

Pre-workout: Mix in some BCAA (5gm) with my pre-workout drink
Post-workout: creatine mono (5-10 gm) w/ waxy maize (5gm) immediately after my workout, then a protein shake w/ glutamine (5gm) added to it.

We'll see how that goes and I'll adjust accordingly from there. Looking forward to giving the TS products a try. Have heard nothing but good things so far.

[flex3d]

Thanks for all the help. I placed my order with TS last night.

Picked up the following:

5lb Choco/PB whey protein
2lb creatine mono
1lb L-glutamine
1lb Waxy Maize
1lb BCAA powder

I thought long and hard about the making my own NO type of pre-workout drink. In the end I decided to stick with a pre-made drink. Not to say that TS' products don't work, but I didn't want to take the chance that I wouldn't be able to find the right mix to give me what I wanted. And at $80-90 for all the products, it could prove to be a costly experiment, whereas I know the pre-made NOs do work for me. I find the recommended dose is sometimes too much for me (depending on the brand), so I'll probably be able to stretch it out a bit if I can cut back on the serving.

So this is the plan:

Pre-workout: Mix in some BCAA (5gm) with my pre-workout drink
Post-workout: creatine mono (5-10 gm) w/ waxy maize (5gm) immediately after my workout, then a protein shake w/ glutamine (5gm) added to it.

We'll see how that goes and I'll adjust accordingly from there. Looking forward to giving the TS products a try. Have heard nothing but good things so far.

What is 5gm of waxy maize going to do for you?? Generally you have to take about the same size of a scoop as you do for protein.

Stop spending so much money on 'supplements' and focus on real food. You seem to place a emphasize on supplements being the back bone of your success. They are called supplements for a reason, to supplement what your already doing. Most products are over hyped and do not give you anything near the price you are paying.

Stick to the basics with supplements: protein, multi vitamin and creatine. Trust me, you might feel more pumped with the other products but is a pump worth the money?? Eat a high carb meal before the workout and you'll get the same pump. At the end of the month the results will be the same...

Why ask for advice if you already have your mind set on something and won't change?

[Big Johnny69]

What is 5gm of waxy maize going to do for you?? Generally you have to take about the same size of a scoop as you do for protein.

Stop spending so much money on 'supplements' and focus on real food. You seem to place a emphasize on supplements being the back bone of your success. They are called supplements for a reason, to supplement what your already doing. Most products are over hyped and do not give you anything near the price you are paying.

Stick to the basics with supplements: protein, multi vitamin and creatine. Trust me, you might feel more pumped with the other products but is a pump worth the money?? Eat a high carb meal before the workout and you'll get the same pump. At the end of the month the results will be the same...

Why ask for advice if you already have your mind set on something and won't change?


Contrary to what you may think, I have made several changes based on recommendations I've been getting from several of the sites I have been frequenting.

And not sure if you have read all my posts, but I work 12hr shifts. And although I am trying to change my diet for the better, my schedule doesn't always allow me to do what I need/should be doing. So until my schedule allows me to get set in a normal routine, the supplements help me with my daily routine. Believe, I've tried with and without the supplements, and to me, the supplements help me.

And as for the waxy maize, I picked it up based on TS' recommendation of a complimenting supplement to the creatine and to help with absorption (as for the serving size, I was thinking of another product and quoted the wrong serving size). I've sent many PMs back and forth with TS, and he has been more than helpful with good, honest information. My order changed many times over based on his helpful answers. And because of his honesty, he will be getting more of my business.

I appreciate everyone's help in making recommendations, but like TS told me, somethings work for some and not others, so that is the route I am taking right now. I don't see any harm in trying new things. I'm going to try different things, be it supplements and/or diet, and see what works best for me. And you have to remember, I am not a hardcore/competition type of lifter. I'm merely weight training and doing cardio to lose a bit of weight and to get in better shape. So although I am changing my diet for the better, I'm not looking at dramatically increasing my calorie intake per day. I'm looking to eat healthier, not more.

[flex3d]

Well if your merely weight training and doing cardio to lose weight, you do no need these supplements to accomplish these goals.

In bodybuilding/weightlifting etc., you get what you put in (outside the gym and inside the gym)
If you want to lose weight - make the necessary changes to your daily routine and diet. Not throw in a bunch of supplements and expect miracles.


Dextrose is just as good as Waxy Maize and is 1/2 the price. Waxy Maize is overpriced and over hyped.

I am not trying to be an ass or anything and I apologize if I am coming on like one, but there is simply no need to waste all your hard earned cash on supplements. It is always good to try new things - but only once you have the foundations down.

[Big Johnny69]

Well if your merely weight training and doing cardio to lose weight, you do no need these supplements to accomplish these goals.

In bodybuilding/weightlifting etc., you get what you put in (outside the gym and inside the gym)
If you want to lose weight - make the necessary changes to your daily routine and diet. Not throw in a bunch of supplements and expect miracles.


Dextrose is just as good as Waxy Maize and is 1/2 the price. Waxy Maize is overpriced and over hyped.

I am not trying to be an ass or anything and I apologize if I am coming on like one, but there is simply no need to waste all your hard earned cash on supplements. It is always good to try new things - but only once you have the foundations down.


I don't think any of you are an ass. :D I'm still working on the foundations. Perhaps I may have jumped the gun, but I'll see how it goes. I'm sure I'll be eliminating some items as I progress, and possibly adding more if I look to push myself further or if my required needs change. But for now, until I can fully integrate these changes I wanted to try these items to see if they can help me in areas where I may be lacking until my life changes have taken full effect.

I don't expect miracles. I have friends who were once heavy into weight training and I saw how long it took them to get where they wanted to be. So far, these items have pleased me in the gains I have gotten from them. So for now, I'm going to continue on my path and see where my progress takes me.

As for the waxy maize, I just decided to try it over the dextrose. The difference in cost, for the amount I plan on trying, was negligeable.

Again, I appreciate all the input. As the old saying goes, you can learn something new everyday. And the info from people here has, so far, been invaluable to me. I'm learning a lot, and plan to implement some of the stuff I've learned here into my daily routine.