Short test/win or anavar cycle advice

[shavas]

Hi, I'm about to do a short three week low dose cycle of test along with either some winny or anavar. I've only done one four week cycle of test cyp 250mg/wk about 14 years ago and gained about 13 pounds in that short time. Didn't do any PCT or use any Novadex as was uneducated about that at the time. Nipples got slightly tickly at the end so I could tell something was going on but it went away shortly after finishing the test. Didn't notice any other negative side effects.

I currently weigh 170lbs at 10%bf, 5' 9.5" and have been working out hard for years and am now 37. Was previously doing lots of cardio but since the beginning of last summer have been concentrating more on weights and have put 10 lean pounds on using whey and creatine among some other vitamins.

Just planning on doing this short cycle as am going out of the country in a few weeks for a few weeks. Am probably going to do test 250mg /week with maybe winny 50 mg eod or a similar dose of anavar. I will prob do nolvadex 10mg /day and then when I get back from my vacation do some more nolvadex like 40/20/10 or even less such as 20/20/10 as my natural hormone levels would probably not have been as effected being such a short cycle (I do realize the HTPA system shuts down relatively quickly after starting test).

My goal is to just put on maybe 5-7 lbs lean mass and look good for the tropical place I'm going. Planning to moderately increase caloric intake but keep it mostly clean with increased protein and vegetables. So wondering what anyone's opinion of this cycle is. Any comments are appreciate!

[GYMBRAT]

I'd wait till you get back and hit a nice simple 16 wk cycle ;)

...also, the 4 wk cyp cycle and 13 lbs don't sound logical to me sorry as it take cyp that long just to start to kick in.

[Memo]

Novedex was out 14 years ago? you are getting prop right? and you might wanna do more like 750/week if you run it for such a short amount of time. If i was you, I would run Sustanonand start PCT the day I get back from vacation.

but this cycle is a bad idea.

[shavas]

I gained the 13lbs while dramatically increasing my caloric intake. I was super lean before (maybe 7% bf) and expect most of the 13lbs was water weight. I slowly lost 75% of the weight after a few months. I also thought with cyp the maximum test levels are reached about 24-48 hours after injection so even though it is a long acting ester would still have a relatively rapid onset of effects. I think the test cyp may be a better choice than the prop as my test levels will still be above normal while I'm gone where as with prop my test levels would drop after a few days and I would have to do some PCT.

I've read some good things about doing short cycles with have some decent gains, low side effects and keeping most of the gains after. Then, breaking for a couple months and repeating. I'm also interesting to see how my body reacts so don't want to do too long of a cycle.

[GYMBRAT]

I'm thinking you have the cyp and prop bass ackwards, or you maybe thinkin it's susp.

Testosterone cypionate

Quick overview:

Active Life: 15-16 days
Drug Class: Anabolic/Androgenic Steroid (for injection)
Average Dose: Men 250-1000 mg/week
Acne: Yes
Water Retention: Yes, high
High Blood Pressure: Yes
Liver Toxic: Low, except in mega dosages
Aromatization:Yes, high
DHT Conversion: Yes, high
Decrease HPTA function: Yes, se

[shavas]

I'm thinking you have the cyp and prop bass ackwards, or you maybe thinkin it's susp.


No, I know the cyp is long acting and the prop is much shorter acting with the susp being almost immediate with a very short half life. Just that even though the cyp is long acting from what I understand cyp blood levels are maximun after 24-48 hours and then slowly declines after that.

[Memo]

the half-life of cyp is more than 48h

[tex]

dont do it.....its worthless.....and a waste of gear....

[revolution187]

u will just cause a hormone flactuation and probably not get too many gains, listen to gymbrat he seems to know alot, i always read his comments

[GYMBRAT]

x2, ........and yo thanks rev I appreciate that!

[musclehead123]

I'd wait till you get back and hit a nice simple 16 wk cycle ;)

...also, the 4 wk cyp cycle and 13 lbs don't sound logical to me sorry as it take cyp that long just to start to kick in.


I agree wait till you get back, for some people it takes test prop up to 2 weeks for them to see/feel the effects. All that might happen is you might gain some bloat. Plus even if u do gain anything you'll lose it all on your vacation as you probably won't be able to eat like machine or workout properly.

I think dropping the creatine would give u a leaner look, and learner would make you look a bit bigger.


gymbrat,

I think he may have gained 13lbs in 4 weeks of test, but not of lean mass...could have been water/bloat and he increased calories. Plus he didn't state how much he kept.

[shavas]

Well I've taken 250mg test today along with 50mg whinny which I'll take EOD. I figure even though I'm only taking it for three weeks it will really be like 5 weeks total gear time as the half life of the cyp is about two weeks. Going to take nolvadex 10mg ED starting in a few days or week or so. I plan on eating lots and also hitting the gym while I'm in Rio so shouldn't lose much if any training effect. I want to see how my body reacts to this short cycle so can plan the next one well and also want min side effects.

[GYMBRAT]

gymbrat,
I think he may have gained 13lbs in 4 weeks of test, but not of lean mass...could have been water/bloat and he increased calories. Plus he didn't state how much he kept.

After going back some, I could see it being possible you bet. Thats a lot of water in a short time,I don't even get that from abombs a100mgs a day in that short of time... must have had some BP issues there. :shock

[GYMBRAT]

Well I've taken 250mg test today along with 50mg whinny which I'll take EOD. I figure even though I'm only taking it for three weeks it will really be like 5 weeks total gear time as the half life of the cyp is about two weeks. Going to take nolvadex 10mg ED starting in a few days or week or so. I plan on eating lots and also hitting the gym while I'm in Rio so shouldn't lose much if any training effect. I want to see how my body reacts to this short cycle so can plan the next one well and also want min side effects.

still a waist imo, but if ya have the cash to throw away its all on you man!

...have a safe and great trip though bro, take care.

[L3]

Thats a lot of water in a short time,I don't even get that from abombs a100mgs a day in that short of time

have you tried suspension yet? morning after my first shot i had 3lbs of water :D

[GYMBRAT]

yes times and neverever had that excesive of bloat bro wow! It takes a few days to a wk for me to get only slight bloating on drol, dbol etc..

[tex]

Well I've taken 250mg test today along with 50mg whinny which I'll take EOD. I figure even though I'm only taking it for three weeks it will really be like 5 weeks total gear time as the half life of the cyp is about two weeks. Going to take nolvadex 10mg ED starting in a few days or week or so. I plan on eating lots and also hitting the gym while I'm in Rio so shouldn't lose much if any training effect. I want to see how my body reacts to this short cycle so can plan the next one well and also want min side effects. it takes me 5-6 weeks to start seeing the results on long esters like enth and cyp....plus you are taking nolvadex which will slow your gains even more....you will gain some weight due to your calorie surplus but i dont expect any permanent/good gains with what you are doing.....next time you need someone to take your money, pm me ;) have a nice trip tho!

[Memo]

did he say he will pin winny EOD? If i was you I would go for 750mg/week of sustanon anyway so you get the prop working now and you wont come off for the the entire length of your trip and you can do pct after

[GYMBRAT]

did he say he will pin winny EOD? If i was you I would go for 750mg/week of sustanon anyway so you get the prop working now and you wont come off for the the entire length of your trip and you can do pct after

can you explain to him as to how he will keep his blood levels stable doing this?

[Memo]

can you explain to him as to how he will keep his blood levels stable doing this?

Blood level wont be stable. he is doing a 3 week cycle with nolva and EOD of Winny injection there is nothing to explain. All I am saying is that Sust will stay in his system for longer than cyp.

What if he took Test prop & Tren ace for 3 weeks instead?

[GYMBRAT]

I understand what your saying bro, wasn't trying to be a dick, if I did sound like one :)

I personally think waiting for 3 wks till he is back on track food/gym wise would be by far the best bet for the OP

[Memo]

I understand what your saying bro, wasn't trying to be a dick, if I did sound like one :)

I personally think waiting for 3 wks till he is back on track food/gym wise would be by far the best bet for the OP

Don't worry I am thinking the same thing. Its too late, he started his cycle.

[GYMBRAT]

^^ lol, I know, no more advice for him :)

[Memo]

^^ lol, I know, no more advice for him :)

I still believe that using decaonated would be the best way for people going on a trip of 2 weeks or less. Since they can wait up to 3 weeks before starting PCT

Week 1-8 500mg test D EOD
week 9-11 Going on vacation
Week 12 Start PCT

[shavas]

still a waist imo, but if ya have the cash to throw away its all on you man!

...have a safe and great trip though bro, take care.

The expense was not really a consideration so not worried about wasting but I still think I'll get the results I'm looking for for this short cycle. Again, only in the 5-7lb range for next 5-6 weeks with keeping about the same bf. I'm think of waiting about 6-8 weeks after PCT to start another cycle. I think might be with test/deca/var, going longer and throwing some hcg into the mix. Does that sound like a reasonable amount of time to wait to start a new cycle after such a short/min cycle?

Years ago I gained 40lbs in 32 weeks without any gear, just eating lots. But wasn't happy with the result, put on too much fat so then cut almost all the weight back after three months. My friend who is starting at the same time is doing 8 weeks with test/deca/var so I'll see how my results compare to his after I get back and finish pct lol. I already feel like I got a good pump going already but probably just between the ears so far lol.

Thanks, will try to have fun on the trip, I hear the girls in Rio are not so good to look at and avert to Canadians. Well, that except the opposite.

:yeah

[shavas]

did he say he will pin winny EOD? If i was you I would go for 750mg/week of sustanon anyway so you get the prop working now and you wont come off for the the entire length of your trip and you can do pct after

I think prop would have been a better choice to start as it's faster acting but thought the cyp would be better in terms of pct timing as it's half life is about 8 days. Not sure how I feel about travelling with nolvadex as its a prescription drug and obviously don't have a scritp so don't know what the odds of it getting confiscated in customs somewhere. Ideally I would like to start pct after 14-16 days but might have to wait 18 days until I get back which I don't think should make any difference at all. Just some background on me I have a science degree and work in the medical field so have taken lots of pharmacology stuff but am no expert in aas although have researched it a good amount.

[shavas]

Also have found the win shot by IM to be very sore the next day as I had also read that it would be. So have started taking it SubQ in the abdomen area which appears to be extremely less physically debilitating. Test was no prob with IM, min pain. With everything I've read re SubQ, blood titre levels of tested drugs are the same as with IM injections after whatever amount of time they are testing for. In the hospital we rarely give IM's as compared to SubQ as SubQ are given about 99% of the time. As long as the technique is sterile and the substance is not overly irritating to the tissue SubQ's should not cause any problems as compared to IM's. Obviously IMs can do larger injections but 1ml SubQ are not a problem. Of course, I haven't read anything about anyone injecting win SubQ so if anyone has heard some negative reports let me know, thanks again for all the advice everyone!

[tex]

. My friend who is starting at the same time is doing 8 weeks with test/deca/var so I'll see how my results compare to his after I get back and finish pct lol. I already feel like I got a good pump going already but probably just between the ears so far lol.

Thanks, will try to have fun on the trip, I hear the girls in Rio are not so good to look at and avert to Canadians. Well, that except the opposite.

:yeah it takes deca around 6 weeks to become stable in the body....then you'll have only 2 weeks of it before you go off and then have to wait another 4 weeks before its out of you....tell your friend to extend the cycle to 12-16 weeks and he'll have better gains.....you guys really need to research this stuff before shooting it into yourselves....you ask for advice BUT you dont listen....why ask at all?

[tex]

Also have found the win shot by IM to be very sore the next day as I had also read that it would be. So have started taking it SubQ in the abdomen area which appears to be extremely less physically debilitating. Test was no prob with IM, min pain. With everything I've read re SubQ, blood titre levels of tested drugs are the same as with IM injections after whatever amount of time they are testing for. In the hospital we rarely give IM's as compared to SubQ as SubQ are given about 99% of the time. As long as the technique is sterile and the substance is not overly irritating to the tissue SubQ's should not cause any problems as compared to IM's. Obviously IMs can do larger injections but 1ml SubQ are not a problem. Of course, I haven't read anything about anyone injecting win SubQ so if anyone has heard some negative reports let me know, thanks again for all the advice everyone! i did a 1/2 ml shot of water-based test susp in my abs and got a nice lump there for about 4 weeks....not life threatening but it was near my belt-line and hurt like a bastard :)

[GYMBRAT]

yeeouch!

[bigtavi8]

Very short time period but dont even worry about the test. Theres just not enough time. A close friend of mine did a quick 3-4 var blast at like 60-80mg ED and got slightly stronger and leaner. Just do a var only quick blast not enough time for test even if you used prop.

[Memo]

if he does only var he wont be able to start PCT after

[shavas]

it takes deca around 6 weeks to become stable in the body....then you'll have only 2 weeks of it before you go off and then have to wait another 4 weeks before its out of you....tell your friend to extend the cycle to 12-16 weeks and he'll have better gains.....you guys really need to research this stuff before shooting it into yourselves....you ask for advice BUT you dont listen....why ask at all?

My friend has done longer than 8 weeks cycles before but doesn't like the withdrawal symptoms from longer cycles. I notice many on forums seems to poo poo short cycles saying long cycles are the way to go but from people who have done short cycles I've only heard good things and that they also had low side effects and took less to get their hormonal system back up to speed PCT. Frankly I don't see what's the downside from doing a short cycle with test as the base.

[shavas]

Very short time period but dont even worry about the test. Theres just not enough time. A close friend of mine did a quick 3-4 var blast at like 60-80mg ED and got slightly stronger and leaner. Just do a var only quick blast not enough time for test even if you used prop.

I've read var should generally always be done with test to avoid getting a case of the var dick. Something I would definitely not want to risk before going to the land of beautiful horny women lol

[shavas]

i did a 1/2 ml shot of water-based test susp in my abs and got a nice lump there for about 4 weeks....not life threatening but it was near my belt-line and hurt like a bastard :)

I have two small lumps on either side of my abdomen now, may switch back to IM for the win. Not sure what is worse, sore muscle or sore lump...

[tex]

ill take sore muscle over festering lump eating away my insides any day ;)

[shavas]

ill take sore muscle over festering lump eating away my insides any day ;)

Yeah I think you're right, sticking to IM for win probably better as win seems to be so irritating to the tissue

[shavas]

Just a quick update, ten days into cycle, doing 250mg test cyp biweekly and 50mg win eod. Up 8lbs so far and feel noticeably stronger. Have taken 10mg of nolvadex twice. Don't feel bloated at all and abs still look ok. Feel pretty good and definitely feel hornier if it wasn't bad enough before.

[shavas]

I'm now back from vacation in Rio. I ended up gaining 11lbs and losing 1%bf. Am noticeably larger and stronger and feel fairly ripped. Eating was very inconsistent when I was in Brazil but I managed not to loose any weight or gain any fat. Was hitting the gym there on a regular basis though and walking around lots. Protein bars are very expensive there, about $8 canadian. Just took a little nolvadex down there with me, took about 10mg eod or so. Started taking nolvadex 20mg ed a couple days ago since coming back. Currently mood and sex drive feels normal. Thinking of continuing novla 20/20/10 as don't think need it too aggressively as cycle was so short. Does that sound ok for pct or could I even get away with less nolva?

[shavas]

Coming back from off the first short cycle of test/win (3 weeks) I went up 11 lbs (from 170 to 181) with some decent strength increases. I did Nolvadex for pct starting 14 days after my last test injection(20/10). However, i found the nolvadex made my feel tired, week and slightly nauseated. After stopping nolvadex I began feeling better within two days. Libido also went way down when on the nolvadex but bounced back about 10 days after stopping it. I then waited 6 weeks before starting a cycle of just test cyp 250mg/ week for 2 weeks. This time body weight went from 181 (didn't loose any weight from first cycle, bf 11%) to 194 lbs (11.5% bf) with good increases in strength. Bench from 245 to 275, deadlift from 315 to 405lbs and squat from 295 to 345lbs. Haven't done any nolvadex during cycle and am doing hcgenerate for 2 weeks post cycle which started 5 days ago. Don't feel any negative effects from anything, no gyno, energy is good and libido is high especially since starting the hcgenerate. I actually noticed a good effect from the hcgenerate about 2 hours after taking the first dose with random boners coming on throughout the day. I noticed about 5 pimples broke out on my chest a few days after starting hcgenerate but they seem to be gone now. So I figure I'll wait another several weeks, try to keep my strength and weight and then do another short, low dose cycle of only test cyp. Seems to be working well for me, don't see the need to do any higher dose or go any longer.

[Memo]

11lbs in 3 weeks, and 13lbs in 2weeks.. I don't believe this.. I eat 3800calories a day and I can barely gain a pound a week.

[Ritch]

11lbs in 3 weeks, and 13lbs in 2weeks.. I don't believe this.. I eat 3800calories a day and I can barely gain a pound a week.

This guy is a flake, so I take what he says with a grain of salt. He then goes on to pimp hcgenerate, more sings of mental instability... But he gained weight from a very low point but still those low doses over such a short time don`t even have time to do anything so, pff whatever...

[shavas]

11lbs in 3 weeks, and 13lbs in 2weeks.. I don't believe this.. I eat 3800calories a day and I can barely gain a pound a week.

The weight increases are accurate but I gained the weight over more like 5 and 4 weeks periods of time as I would still be fairly anabolic and gaining weight for an additional 2 weeks after the last spikes. I don't know exactly how many calories I was eating per day just that I was eating as much as possible, stuffing everything down and not all clean. Even so I hardly gained any fat. I think for some reason my body just responds really well to hardly any test.

[Memo]

for some reason my body just responds really well to hardly any test.

why do you use aas then..

[shavas]

This guy is a flake, so I take what he says with a grain of salt. He then goes on to pimp hcgenerate, more sings of mental instability... But he gained weight from a very low point but still those low doses over such a short time don`t even have time to do anything so, pff whatever...

I don't know what your problem with me is Ritch, you've done nothing but hate on me for some reason. Now I know I'm new and you've been here for a while so I want to respect you but the attitude you're coming at me with is making it hard for me to do that. I've presented some evidence of good results I've had with low, short doses of basically test only resulting in very few sides. Apparently this short circuits you brain...

I was under the impression the purpose of this site was to share information and experiences; however, maybe I was wrong about that assumption. Maybe there is some hierarchy that has to be climbed before someone can speak without being subjected to prejudice...For example, I make a comment on hcgenerate based on what I've experienced and you jump on it somehow making a connection with that to what you propose my mental state is - a wild and inaccurate assumption. Do you routinely make judgments based on misinformation and assumptions? I think not as you probably would not have made it to the ripe age of 33 with all your limbs intact otherwise. Is there something about hcgenerate that I don't know but everyone else does? If so please share because I would rather not spend any more money on the product if it is not as advertised and espoused by other posters and reviewers. I sincerely don't want to argue with you but you think you can flame me because I'm new here and I'm not going to flame back? For example.. theoretically... I could say - I think you are trying to act like some sort of forum bully but without the finesse or intelligence to do anything but make yourself look like a shallow ignoranus. And now you can call me something nasty back. But then we accomplish nothing but make ourselves look like idiots. So, ideally I would like us to be on friendly terms. I propose you refrain from name calling on me and treat me with a degree of respect when responding to any one of my posts or at the least provide some information to back up your position besides hearsay. In return I will treat you with the same degree of respect and consideration. Deal?

[shavas]

why do you use aas then..

Well a low dose would still raise my test levels a number of times above my normal levels which in turn gives me results I would never be able to get otherwise. My goal is to use the least amount as possible to get as good result as possible and with low sides and low suppression of htpa. Also to go without the use of much ancillary drugs such as nolvadex which have a whole series of sides effects of their own and some of which are serious. Nolvadex is meant to be less harmful than the cancer it is supposed to treat but it is hardly harmless. I ideally don't want a drug like that in my body. I would be surprised if I continue to have as good results with this low dose and I was really surprised this last cycle had such a good result. I was expecting maybe a 5lb gain and after one week I was only up like a pound. The second week I was gaining weight like crazy and it continued from there but has levelled off now.

[pw154]

I don't know what your problem with me is Ritch, you've done nothing but hate on me for some reason. Newbies that start threads seeking advice on poorly put together cycles, ignoring said advice altogether, and doing their poorly put together cycle anyway... generally don't get much love around here. lol If you got such great results from your shitty cycle, imagine how much you could have grown had you done a proper one.

Well a low dose would still raise my test levels a number of times above my normal levels which in turn gives me results I would never be able to get otherwise. My goal is to use the least amount as possible to get as good result as possible and with low sides and low suppression of htpa. Also to go without the use of much ancillary drugs such as nolvadex which have a whole series of sides effects of their own and some of which are serious. Nolvadex is meant to be less harmful than the cancer it is supposed to treat but it is hardly harmless. I ideally don't want a drug like that in my body. I would be surprised if I continue to have as good results with this low dose and I was really surprised this last cycle had such a good result. I was expecting maybe a 5lb gain and after one week I was only up like a pound. The second week I was gaining weight like crazy and it continued from there but has levelled off now.I understand your mentality as I employ similar beliefs - I think big doses are unnecessary - but the compounds you chose were still a poor choice IMO.

[Ritch]

I don't know what your problem with me is Ritch, you've done nothing but hate on me for some reason. Now I know I'm new and you've been here for a while so I want to respect you but the attitude you're coming at me with is making it hard for me to do that. I've presented some evidence of good results I've had with low, short doses of basically test only resulting in very few sides. Apparently this short circuits you brain...

I was under the impression the purpose of this site was to share information and experiences; however, maybe I was wrong about that assumption. Maybe there is some hierarchy that has to be climbed before someone can speak without being subjected to prejudice...For example, I make a comment on hcgenerate based on what I've experienced and you jump on it somehow making a connection with that to what you propose my mental state is - a wild and inaccurate assumption. Do you routinely make judgments based on misinformation and assumptions? I think not as you probably would not have made it to the ripe age of 33 with all your limbs intact otherwise. Is there something about hcgenerate that I don't know but everyone else does? If so please share because I would rather not spend any more money on the product if it is not as advertised and espoused by other posters and reviewers. I sincerely don't want to argue with you but you think you can flame me because I'm new here and I'm not going to flame back? For example.. theoretically... I could say - I think you are trying to act like some sort of forum bully but without the finesse or intelligence to do anything but make yourself look like a shallow ignoranus. And now you can call me something nasty back. But then we accomplish nothing but make ourselves look like idiots. So, ideally I would like us to be on friendly terms. I propose you refrain from name calling on me and treat me with a degree of respect when responding to any one of my posts or at the least provide some information to back up your position besides hearsay. In return I will treat you with the same degree of respect and consideration. Deal?

No deal.