Post Knee Op Cycle Plan & Feedback Requested

[Lykalotopus]

Had a knee op in Mid-Nov 09 (ACL reconstruction & removed small piece of inner meniscus).

5'90", 190ish-lbs, 15-17%BF, been a very rough year and want to get back to 'normal'. This would be (I think) my fourth cycle, been clean atleast a year.

Now early feb, range of motion is excellent, strength is very weak but getting back to normal, hamstring in particular is weak since that's where the harvested the new ligament from.

Obviously a short, hard cycle would mask the injury, so I'm looking to go longer term & make more permanent (though likely smaller) gains.

Plan was to start a 22-24 week cycle looking like:

First month 20-40mg D-Bol/day
Entire cycle 500mg Test Enth & 600mg EQ/week
Last month 30mg-50mg Anavar/day

With two 21 day Clen/T3 cycles (one at week 3, one at week 17) in the middle.

The point here is to get back to the 200-210lb range under 12% BF.

Feedback please.

[Praetorian]

To be safe you need something that develops slow muscular gains and strength. You dont want to use dbol that is not wise....quick water gains lead to quick strength gains on an unstable joint which would most likely end up re-injuring the knee. The anavar as well is completely unnecessary. To approach the goal you mentioned you need to split the cycle into two parts....the first being strength and lean mass gaining, the second being maximum fat loss with muscle preservation. Remember you arent doing both at the same time. As well 21 day clen/T3 is a waste of time and money.
I would suggest a 16 weeks cycle split in half.....test cyp 500mg weekly + deca 300mg weekly for the first 8 weeks followed by test enanthate 500mg weekly +EQ 400mg weekly for the last 8 weeks. Your diet should be based on a lean mass program so 6-7 meals daily approx 40g pro+40-60g carbs+15g fat per meal for the first 8 week gaining part....the second 8 weeks you need to drop the carbs and run a diet with cardio to lose as much fat as possible. You can utilize the clen and T3 during the diet.
P

[Lykalotopus]

Interesting, I appreciate the feedback. I see the point on the D-Bol & duly noted.

In retrospect, I wished I'd stayed away from Winny back in the day as that was probably a contributing factor to the initial knee injury.

Only question of note was your suggestion came back as a 16 week cycle and I am looking to run something longer, closer to 20+, only because the wife is currently knocked up & I have a good stretch here were I don't have to worry about being on anything & affecting the baby, pregnancy, etc.

More thoughts? Positives? Negatives?

I have PCT & Finasteride for hairloss on hand.

[Praetorian]

The longer cycle would make recovery a bit more difficult. If you decided on 20 then I would suggest 10 weeks gaining and ten weeks of fat loss...the compounds wouldnt change,
P

[Lykalotopus]

Mmmmkay, have to do some better planning...going to start in a couple weeks me thinks...once we're past the 16 week mark (less likely to have a miscarriage) it's go time.

[Flexxx]

I will let Prae have the hormone replacement recommendations. But being through 3 major knee surgeries, one being a complete reconstruction the advice I can offer might give some insight.

First stick to the physiotherapy and push hard and stay consistant. You want to regain full ROM and strength as it will cause imbalances and further injuries down the road when your loose mobility in only one knee. I know this from experience, but my ROM is limited by scar tissue and cannot be fixed.

Work on muscular balance as well. You will probably have to do some band work with your leg to strengthen your knee, hamstring, and depending on how long you were laid up you might need some EMS on muscles. You can get one from your physiotherapist, it is great for helping activate muscles if you have lost proper contractile control over the muscle.

Not sure if hGH would help with recovery, perhaps Prae has an opinion on this. I have heard people say if works, but do not know anyone first hand that has used it for recovery purposes.

Depending on how the surgery was done and how big the incisions were you might also look into making sure that your incisions have healed properly and are not grafted to the bone, which also happened to me, which limited range of motion and required another surgery to fix.

Depending on if they put any hardware (rods, pins, screws, or wires) you might want to talk to your orthopedic surgeon on the ease of removing these in the future. Especially if you are in a physical job or push yourself very hard in the gym. I kept on getting stress fractures in my legs until I removed 2 rods from my leg. Alot of professional athletes and military also have these removed as they say the added weight throws off their running stride.

Also watch the painkillers, if they prescribed any. They can ruin your life. Take them before physio and thats it. Have someone keep an eye on your condition that has an open mind and an honest tongue.

Any questions feel free to ask.

[physique]

i disagree with all of you but flexx.
dont start anything until u can get that injured leg back to the strength u had in it before operation.
i broke my knee and tore the mcl right off 8 years ago. and i too wanted to do a cycle to get it strong again. but all u are doing is creating a false strength gain from a bottle. its a quick fix.
and when u stop that leg will be weak again. stick it out naturally and you will be better off in the long run.

its time to man up.

[Lykalotopus]

I can see your point about sticking it out, but really, it's only my hammy that's that weak, as well as the 'strength from a bottle' feeling. I managed to keep most of my upper body strength.

I guess I should have also mentioned that I'm not that young anymore (33) and was planning to really take my time with this recovery & more or less minimalize high impact activities for the sake of long term durability with respect to the missing piece of meniscus.

My goal is to get back into my peak shape, play one more season of rugby to prove to myself I can and then get into something else. I refuse to become a statistic, one of those guys that has an injury after 30 & turns into a butterball. Conversely, I want to keep my knee's good & intact for as long as I can, hence getting out of high impact sports.

For me, at this point, it's mostly a mental struggle. To go from a physique & strength combo I was very happy with (205-210 @ 5'9-10ish & 10-11ish% BF and very strong all around) to what I am right now (ashamed to look in the mirror shirtless even though I know I look better than 98% of everyone I know).

Eventually (around age 40 or so), I'm aiming to be in the 190ish range & single digit body fat. I do plan to 'use' in one way or another for the rest of my life & my wife knows this, especially after 45. I used to have a 'bigger is better' mentality but the extra weight I carried at the time of the injury definitely contributed (close to 220lbs & solid).

I have been very fortunate as far as scarring (hardly any) and haven't taken a single pain killer since 10 days after surgery (12 years of rugby gave me pretty good tolerance, see shoulder, ouch).

This is great info guys! Good stuff.

[Blitz-Test]

Depending how long you want to go on, I would definately recommend mild compounds something like

1-20 Test E 400mg/week
1-15 EQ 600mg/week
1-22 hCG 500IU/week

[budthespud]

I suffered the same injury as you and actually went 3 years before it was properly diagnosed. I had the same surgery as you including the meniscus. It took 4 months of re-hab so that I could run again and another 2 months to gain the strenght necessary to lift heavy again. It was very frustrating but I had to be patient. I ws a little older than you at 38 but I was still quite active. I waited 2 years before I depended on AAs to help me. I used Test Prop at 300 mg a week and EQ at 450 mg a week. Ran the cycle for 12 weeks. My results were good as far as joint support/healing but yielded little strength and size gains.
After the cycle I continued to research and realized that after 200-250 mg , any more amount of test will counter-act the collagen building/repair effects of EQ or even Deca. At the same time , the dosage of Eq should be kept around 600 mg. Deca can go slightly lower . As for size and strength, don't expect a whole lot from the EQ but don't expect alot of side-effects either. Deca will give you more in the way of joint support as well as size/strength gains.
Pick ur 'poison'. Hope this helps.:cflag