Very Experienced Beginner - Oral Cycle?

[littlerunt]

Hey Guys - I've been quietly reading lots of boards (especially this one) for the past six months and think I finally have enough info to join a couple of forums and ask my question the right way - a little patience, please...

I'm 5'8, fairly small-framed guy and currently weigh 165lb at 11% body fat. I've been seriously training (5x's a week with a trainer - heavy weight, low-reps, compound work) for two years, and have been doing high-intensity workouts for about five years total. I started at 135lb and 16% body fat, so I've made lots of progress over the last couple of years.

I eat very, very clean: a decent amount of good carbs, lots (and lots) of protein, and low to very moderate fat intake. About 4000 calories daily, and do cardio for 30 min three times a week. With all my work over the past few years I really feel like I've gotten my body to its best natural point and have plateaued. Although I'm not into competing or becoming a pro, I'd like to add about 10-15 more pounds of lean muscle, and think that gear might be a good next step for me to push beyond the wall I've hit naturally.

Two small hurdles: I work part-time in a gym, and any hint of me hitting the gear would not be taken very well - probably get fired. Also, I'm a diagnosed belonephobic (fear of needles). Taking all this into consideration, I'm wondering if an all-oral fairly low-dose Winstrol/Primobolan cycle would give me the subtle gains I want without raising too many flags at work, and without giving me needle nightmares. I'd also like to get my fat down to about 8-9%, but that's another conversation, I think.

I realize all-oral isn't ideal for mass-gains or to begin to step-up to pro-type training - but for my goals and with my restraints I'd like to know what you think. I keep seeing the below oral Winstrol/Primobolan cycle all over the Internet - what are your thoughts? Should I increase dosage and forget the pyramid? Also, there's maybe one guy at the gym I can talk to about gear - is it proper form just to ask him about his source? I assume no. If you took time to read this, I HIGHLY appreciate your help....LittleRunt

Week 1 Winstrol 100 mg Primobolan 100 mg
Week 2 Winstrol 200 mg Primobolan 100 mg
Week 3 Winstrol 200 mg Primobolan 200 mg
Week 4 Winstrol 300 mg Primobolan 200 mg
Week 5 Winstrol 300 mg Primobolan 300 mg
Week 6 Winstrol 200 mg Primobolan 200 mg
Week 7 Winstrol 200 mg Primobolan 200 mg
Week 8 Winstrol 100 mg Primobolan 100 mg

[TL1000S]

Not worth the risk IMHO. You seem to have made some great gains naturally, and although an oral cycle would give you some benefit, it's short lived and side effects outweigh the rewards.

I used to be dealthly afraid of needles, but once I realized that it was the only way to achieve what I wanted, I just overcame the fear. I now actually look forward to injecting which is a strange phenomena.

If I were you I would run the following as a first cycle, this way you'll fly under the radar @ work, and still get safe gains:

wk 1-10 400mg Test Cyp.
wk 1-12 500iu HCG (twice a week/e3d)
wk 1-12 .25mg Arimidex
wk 12-17 .5mg Arimidex
wk 12-15 Clomid 100mg ED

[littlerunt]

Thanks for the quick reply, guy. I am TEETERING on getting over my needle fear - hard to do but, as you say, probably worth it. I'm going to do some research right now on your suggestions and get back to you, if you don't mind, with questions. Although I'm in NYC, not a lot of people to talk to about this at my gym so really appreciate your help...

[Mr.Freeze]

from NYC nice:)

[TL1000S]

Thanks for the quick reply, guy. I am TEETERING on getting over my needle fear - hard to do but, as you say, probably worth it. I'm going to do some research right now on your suggestions and get back to you, if you don't mind, with questions. Although I'm in NYC, not a lot of people to talk to about this at my gym so really appreciate your help...

Sorry bro, this is a canadian board and therefore you must be banned....lol
Glad to help, and ask anyone with experience how easy it is to get over the fear of needles.

[bigdaddydrew123]

i know its not ideal, but i saw alot of guys backin the 80s early 90s build some pretty solid builds with nothing but winstrol. it wasx all that was arround plus we never knew any better. dbol only was also popular. im not saying this is the best cycle but you can get results. i remember using prop too only one shot / week 200 mg. thought it was top notch cycle . we just thought test was test if it was oil, once/ week.crazy thing is we made gains , even tho we did everything wrong by todays standards. my point is you can make modest gains on some orals , just dont expect miracles.

[littlerunt]

Yep - NYC boy here. Appreciate you guys letting an East Coast city rat hang on your board. Seems friendly around here in comparison to some other boards! I'm realizing that if I want to do this right the first time around, even if I only have modest, lean muscle gain as my long-term goal (10-15lb), that I should probably deal with my needle fear. I'm gonna look around more for a beginner cycle that's not too hard core and post for your thoughts...thanks guys....

[bigben]

If you don't like needles, then just use a long lasting ester like test enanthate or cypionate and inject 2x week. Start at say 500mg/wk and see how your body likes it.

[fathead]

get over the needles thing and run a LOW dose of test (1 shot/wk).

If you cant do that, ANAVAR. Wont gain 15lbs though, but no one will notice at work.

That above cycle you posted makes zero sense to me. Are those dosages like weekly totals or daily? wither way makes no sense

[Demonwolf]

Kinda like what he says: Take 1 shot every 6 days of Enanthate or Cypionate. Say around 350-400mg. Maybe throw in some Dbol or Anavar at the begining and/or end.

[TL1000S]

Kinda like what he says: Take 1 shot every 6 days of Enanthate or Cypionate. Say around 350-400mg. Maybe throw in some Dbol or Anavar at the begining and/or end.

Good point. Dbol or var to compliment your cycle, not as the main compound. Years ago people would run oral cycles, but then they wouold piss out their livers!!

long esters are great for infrequent injections, but they are notorious for bloat which wll give up your cover. Make sure you run an AI wil the cycle so that you don't get all puffy thus telling everyone you're on steroids.

[grifter]

My first cycle was sus 250 every 4-5days. I hated needles and would actually feel like passing out with the thought of injecting. I had a friend inject me for the first cycle and after that I made my peace with the needle. I still dont look forward to shots but understand that it is needed to get to where I want to be.

I also wouldnt worry to much about the bloat. Some people dont react the same. A buddy of mine when doing high levels of test bloats up huge, has the moon face and very puffy look. Myself however I dont tend to puff up or atleast with the compounds that I have used to date. You could also have arimidex on hand in case you notice obvious bloat.

[littlerunt]

I'm going to really try to man-up and get over my pussyboy needle fear. That being said, I've been all over the boards for the past few months and have come across below (although I tweaked it a little) as a sane (although sanity can be waaaay overrated!) first cycle for about 10lb of solid gains. 5'8", 165lb, 11%bf, train heavy with a clean diet.

Week 1-12 500mg test enanth (250/2xweek)
Week 4-8 30mg dbol (10mg 3x/day)
Week 1-12 25mg Proviron EOD
Week 3-12 .25mg a-dex EOD

A 12 week test enanth taper with a follow up of nova. Sound relatively sane?