Body part frequency

[Dragon1911]

I know there are 2 schools of though i just wanted to guage everyones preference.

Do you work each body part once a week or twice?

[LonelyBedouin]

Once a week for myself.

[O-Train]

1.5x/wk or 3x/2wks. Even though I've been switching programs around this seems to be what I fall into and what is working well.

Basically upper/lower 3 days a week. Actually it's funny because my programs now (in terms of structure, not content). Are really similar to what I was using when I was 15 and doing a "beginner" program.

[kloan]

2x in 8 days is working very well for me.

[519Muscle]

i tried twice a weeks for a month or 2 its just too much....overtraining.

[C-money]

once a week guy here.....

[_Ragnar_]

Once a week for me.

[Big D]

1 a week, i try to do 1.5 but it never happens

[Ritch]

Once a week...

[#8]

2x a week for legs

1x a week for everything else

[ubergod]

Gotta remember, even in a 1x week split theres lots of crossover..ie Chest to tris, shoulders to tris, back to bi's, back to legs (dead lifts), Chest to back (lots of lat activation in bench pressing). So, your really not hitting anything once a week anyways, so adding a 2x a week schedule you could really be taxing every bodypart 4x..
Now im not a big believer in overtraining in the sense alot of people understand it. But I do beleive that rest is paramount in BBing goals, and hitting bodyparts 4x a week whether directly or indirectly leaves very little time for recuperation IMO. Not to mention all the extra food that would be required to gain mass on a split like that.

[devo09]

2x a week per BP. Gotta remember that volume has to be decreased for the increased frequency

Right now it's
1-Upper
2-Lower
3-off
4-chest/back
5-lower body (high reps)
6-delts/arms
7-off

[Gemini]

i tried twice a weeks for a month or 2 its just too much....overtraining.

Same here, tried this new program for 5 months which required me to workout everybody part 2 times on a 6 day span. I ended up overtraining and lost on some gains I had acquired with my previous workout. I stick with once a week, I switch it up a bit sometimes. I sometimes do legs twice a week. Quads/Glutes on tuesday and calves/hamstrings on fridays.

Your muscles need their full week of recovery if you did your exercise properly and if you pushed yourself to the max.

[Gemini]

It also depends on what are your goals. I used a workout program a few years back that involved 3 days of chest workouts in a week. That is of course because I wanted to get a bigger chest and I concentrated on the chest and chest only for 4 months. I did a variation of incline chest presses on mondays. Decline on Wednesdays and Flat on Fridays.
THIS was not a full body workout. Now that I mostly do full body workouts during the week. It's once a week per body part.

[devo09]

Your muscles need their full week of recovery if you did your exercise properly and if you pushed yourself to the max.
this is simply not true

and if you tried training a bp 2x per week for 1-2 months you were right at the turning point where you would begin adapting to the higher frequency

[buildinthaskinnys]

The majority of protein synthesis is completed 36 hours after training, regardless of load, the rate remains the same peaking at about a day and a half after training thats why I believe that 1 on and 1 off is the most superior method of training frequency for building muscle with training the bodyparts twice every 3 to 4 days with a deload after 3 to 4 weeks. Training one bodypart once a week is based on nothing but broscience. I honestly think it is a scam created by the supplement companys.

[ubergod]

The majority of protein synthesis is completed 36 hours after training, regardless of load, the rate remains the same peaking at about a day and a half after training thats why I believe that 1 on and 1 off is the most superior method of training frequency for building muscle with training the bodyparts twice every 3 to 4 days with a deload after 3 to 4 weeks. Training one bodypart once a week is based on nothing but broscience. I honestly think it is a scam created by the supplement companys.

The only science bodybuilding has is broscience.... i wouldnt doubt what you just stated as fact is nothing but broscience in itself.

[Ritch]

The majority of protein synthesis is completed 36 hours after training, regardless of load, the rate remains the same peaking at about a day and a half after training thats why I believe that 1 on and 1 off is the most superior method of training frequency for building muscle with training the bodyparts twice every 3 to 4 days with a deload after 3 to 4 weeks. Training one bodypart once a week is based on nothing but broscience. I honestly think it is a scam created by the supplement companys.

Everytime I hear the comment of training everything one a week is crap I`m going to say the same thing I always do. The best ****ing physiques on the planet were built using this method. Just because you can`t put the intensity in your workouts that demand a full week off dosen`t mean it`s not effective.

[tiramisu]

I think it depends on the intensity and volume. With High Intensity, Low Volume ala DC twice every 8 days works quite well. If the volume is increased as is the case in the body part split routines then recovery is longer.

While protein synthesis may or may not have pretty much completed in 72 hours you definitely overtrain if you don't get adequate recovery from time/nutrition.

What the optimal bodybuilding program is varies based on the athletes level of training experience, ability to handle work load, genetic ability, and personality.

So clearly the correct answer is 2.16 times per week.

[buildinthaskinnys]

Everytime I hear the comment of training everything one a week is crap I`m going to say the same thing I always do. The best ****ing physiques on the planet were built using this method. Just because you can`t put the intensity in your workouts that demand a full week off dosen`t mean it`s not effective.

Really?

[Ritch]

Really?

That`s all you got? Really? Come back when you`ve got something...

[buildinthaskinnys]

That`s all you got? Really? Come back when you`ve got something...

LOL, ok, well then the greatest physique in the world would belong to Ronnie Coleman, The Greatest Bodybuilder Ever, and he trained twice a week, so my theory is brotechnically more scientifically legit than the once a week training theory, of course this is going by your "the greatest physiques ever built" argument. Because we all know, that you should train like whoever is bigger than you because it is those that know what they are doing and no one else.;)

[Ritch]

^^^ Great example, compare how we should train to the biggest genetic freak ever. The man who`s said to have turned pro natural. Sorry, no sale...

[Ritch]

Ronnie also uses stuff like ketchup on his food precontest. Anothe example of his crazy ass genetics...

[tiramisu]

Ronnie did not use ketchup... He used K.C. Masterpiece BBQ Sauce. Get yer facts straight :)

http://www.canadabodybuilding.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=114&pictureid=803

[Ritch]

Lol, that`s why I said "stuff" like ketchup, same condiment that would leave anybody else out of a top placing if they were using it. He said he`s doing the O this year and his injuries are fixed!

[buildinthaskinnys]

^^^ Great example, compare how we should train to the biggest genetic freak ever. The man who`s said to have turned pro natural. Sorry, no sale...

No sale? Who said I was selling anything, you can train however you want I could give a hoot.

Peace out.

[devo09]

Everytime I hear the comment of training everything one a week is crap I`m going to say the same thing I always do. The best ****ing physiques on the planet were built using this method. Just because you can`t put the intensity in your workouts that demand a full week off dosen`t mean it`s not effective.
So since some of the best physiques trained a BP 1x per week then it MUST be best right? because well...those guys that are pumping grams of AAS into their systems trained each bodypart 1x per week...so it must work best for everyone...right?

Lol, that`s why I said "stuff" like ketchup, same condiment that would leave anybody else out of a top placing if they were using it. He said he`s doing the O this year and his injuries are fixed!
ronnie was still in a calorie deficit...nothing wrong with a little simple CHO while dieting.
Plus when you're combing a simple CHO (bbq sauce) with protein+fats, it is no longer a high Gi carb

[Ritch]

^^^ That applies to naturals as well. What ever natural is... So yes, it`s right. I`m not saying it`s the perfect plan for everybody, just what has resulted in the majority of the greatest bodies ever.

Well if you think it`s optimal to use such an empty calorie source when dieting, it`s your lack of understanding what proper nutrition is. Just hope nobody ever used you for contest prep.

[natenator]

^^^ That applies to naturals as well. What ever natural is... So yes, it`s right. I`m not saying it`s the perfect plan for everybody, just what has resulted in the majority of the greatest bodies ever.

Well if you think it`s optimal to use such an empty calorie source when dieting, it`s your lack of understanding what proper nutrition is. Just hope nobody ever used you for contest prep.
Look at his avy. I don't think he trains himself let alone anyone for contest prep.

This guy is a bookworm plain and simple.

[Ritch]

Look at his avy. I don't think he trains himself let alone anyone for contest prep.

This guy is a bookworm plain and simple.

:laugh

[oldcanada]

once a week for me. Seems to work best for my work week and my workout week, also feel very strong every time I workout. If i trained each body part with less rest I don't think I'd have the same feeling.

[devo09]

^^^ That applies to naturals as well. What ever natural is... So yes, it`s right. I`m not saying it`s the perfect plan for everybody, just what has resulted in the majority of the greatest bodies ever.
well just because something works doesn't mean it's optimal...
and no it doesn't apply to naturals. AAS allows for elevated protein synthesis levels around the clock REGARDLESS OF TRAINING, without those elevated hormones protein synthesis is only elevated due to training; so training a bodypart MORE frequently would make more sense

Well if you think it`s optimal to use such an empty calorie source when dieting, it`s your lack of understanding what proper nutrition is. Just hope nobody ever used you for contest prep.
if your still eating a balanced diet (for the most part) then you're still going to be getting a good balance of micronutrients in your diet.
obviously at some point (for most people) the calories are going to get so low at some point that extras (like bbq sauce/ketchup/etc) are going to have to go....but if someone is able to diet at a moderate level of calories then they should be able to fit some simple CHOs in their diets

Look at his avy. I don't think he trains himself let alone anyone for contest prep.

This guy is a bookworm plain and simple.
haha, what a typical meathead response. You're really fitting that "big dumb bodybuilder" stereotype to a T

[L3]

once a week or less

[O-Train]

Ritch constantly contradicts his own retarded opinions. Best bodies in the world...oh well he's a genetic freak etc...If people stopped quoting him I wouldn't have to read it at all.

[GYMBRAT]

once a week guy here.....

yup same here, and feel 110% re-energized to destroy that bodypart when it is its turn to get tortured ;)

[gojimmygo]

Look at his avy. I don't think he trains himself let alone anyone for contest prep.

This guy is a bookworm plain and simple.

Why do you always have to put people down? Does life make you that miserable that you act like this.I've seen your pics and maybe that's why you're so mad so maybe try to fix whats bothering you about yourself so you don't come across as a bitter clown. Just an idea.

[tiramisu]

This thread could have been really interesting but instead is just a pissy little pushing match.

Trolling and bashing is becoming a bit of habit lately. Workout frequency is a long debated and extremely interesting topic.

The crazy bulgarians would work out multiple times a day and squat every day between shots of vodka and cigarettes. And yes they were killing everyone in competition. And yes they were huge.

By varying training intensity and volume frequency can be varied as well. What is optimal for hypertrophy is not known.

There is a huge opportunity for discussion of HIT, FST, DC, 4-5 day splits, who they work for, how they work best, with what kind of volume and intensity BUT instead I get to read adolescent drivel.

... I'm going to go get my coffee now.

[O-Train]

This thread could have been really interesting but instead is just a pissy little pushing match.

Trolling and bashing is becoming a bit of habit lately. Workout frequency is a long debated and extremely interesting topic.

The crazy bulgarians would work out multiple times a day and squat every day between shots of vodka and cigarettes. And yes they were killing everyone in competition. And yes they were huge.

By varying training intensity and volume frequency can be varied as well. What is optimal for hypertrophy is not known.

There is a huge opportunity for discussion of HIT, FST, DC, 4-5 day splits, who they work for, how they work best, with what kind of volume and intensity BUT instead I get to read adolescent drivel.

... I'm going to go get my coffee now.

As bad as it sounds there is almost no point in having a discussion. People are going to believe what they want to. Trying to convince them otherwise usually turns into a huge waste of time.

[devo09]

As bad as it sounds there is almost no point in having a discussion. People are going to believe what they want to. Trying to convince them otherwise usually turns into a huge waste of time.
Pretty much
most people don't have the knowledge to have an actual discussion so they just copy what "the big guy" at their gym is doing.
Also, I'll just add; training a BP 1x per week is almost a safety net against overtraining (nobody will overtrain with a frequency that low). So for the people that are not smart enough to properly periodize their training (or don't care to) then a low frequency is fine. But for people who want to maximize their results, frequency will be higher, but with a higher frequency periodization is a must.

[Ritch]

Ritch constantly contradicts his own retarded opinions. Best bodies in the world...oh well he's a genetic freak etc...If people stopped quoting him I wouldn't have to read it at all.

Stop being a dumb ass. You know what I mean. How about you post all the posts where I contradict myslelf... **** you piss me off sometimes. You`re always out to make me look stupid with my posts when in fact I dish out very solid advice.

[Ritch]

Pretty much
most people don't have the knowledge to have an actual discussion so they just copy what "the big guy" at their gym is doing.
Also, I'll just add; training a BP 1x per week is almost a safety net against overtraining (nobody will overtrain with a frequency that low). So for the people that are not smart enough to properly periodize their training (or don't care to) then a low frequency is fine. But for people who want to maximize their results, frequency will be higher, but with a higher frequency periodization is a must.

Can`t overtrain by training each body part once a week. Wow you must really train like a pussy to make such statements. You cns gets tired before your body and is the reason a week off or a light week is needed to keep the average person growing. How often is an individual thing, but every 12 weeks is getting long without a break. A light week placed in the middle is good to ensure one dosen`t hit the wall.

[devo09]

Can`t overtrain by training each body part once a week. Wow you must really train like a pussy to make such statements. You cns gets tired before your body and is the reason a week off or a light week is needed to keep the average person growing. How often is an individual thing, but every 12 weeks is getting long without a break. A light week placed in the middle is good to ensure one dosen`t hit the wall.

..you can't overtrain on a "bodybuilding" split

overtraining is so much ****en overused term in fitness/bbing/etc. Somewhere along the line it became cool to say "I train so hard that I overtrain!", which is a load of crap.
The people at risk of overtraining are athletes pulling double sessions, training 3+ hours a day, (oly lifters would be a prime example, lifting maximal loads and training up to 14x per week)

Overtraining on a bbing split; hah!

[L3]

hey devo, you got a lot of knowledge as i can see from your post...

im interested to see some pics of how you have applied all that... clearly you have some as that is you in the lat spread in the avatar, right?

also, whats your stats? height, weight, years training?

[Ritch]

I think athletes who get to such a level are superior beings. They have highe tolerance to physical activitie and is why they can do what they do. Athletes also have deloding periods, so they`re not training hard all the time which can explain the lack of off time.

But if you really believe that one can`t over train, I guess it`s just another point of which we disagree on. What`s new...

[tiramisu]

Work Capacity is a trainable characteristic.

That said, as a Novice I trained full body, squatting 3x a week (Starting Strength) for the first 18 months. I did not start to overtrain till I hit about the 14 month mark when my strength reached the point where I was strong enough to bury myself). I switched to an Advanced Novice program and continued for another 4 months on the the full body 3x a week routine.

I think that any Novice lifter ( less than bw - bench, less than 1.5xbw - squat, less than 2xbw deadlift ) would be well advised to use a 3x a week full body routine with plenty of squatting, benching and deadlifting.

As an Intermediate Lifter ( linear progression, 3x a week full body workouts no longer work) there are several programs that seem to work extremely well. 5/3/1, periodized 5x5 (not the linear version). Then there are a few that work adequately well: DC and 5 day split.

The problem with DC and the 5 day split for Intermediate lifters is that you/I are likely not getting enough volume. While an Intermediate lifter is stronger than an advanced or elite lifter it does not take an Intermediate lifter a full week to recover.

I am about mid-range intermediate at this point and have been doing DC for about 7 months. It has worked well for me BUT I'm certain that I could handle a greater workload than 2x every 8 days using a more efficient program. On the other hand I really like DC, beating the log book with short high intensity workouts appeals to my personality. Holding back and keeping a measured pace is something I struggle with. That said a periodized 5x5 would get me to an advanced strength level faster than a DC program if it didn't bore the poop out of me.

As an advanced lifter, you are strong enough to beat the shit out of yourself. Your training is likely fully periodized and conjugated; You likely have Heavy days, Speed Days, Volume Days and cycle your max weights. You might still be doing some kind of advanced 5x5 but you could very well be doing DC or a 5 day split and finding that this gives you the best return over time.

I have not the foggiest clue what an elite lifter does other than lift really heavy shit. I've read bompa, and quite a few elitefts articles but most of it really goes over my head.

Truthfully, I'm just getting to understand my needs as an intermediate lifter. The subtleties of what it takes to get to elite strength levels still aren't on my reading list except as fun topics. I scan them and move back to my own needs.

[ubergod]

wouldnt it make sense to intentionally overtrain yourself to increase your capacity for training? I mean, your body is never going to adapt to a higher level unless you push yourself beyond your limits right? so in essence we should WANT to overtrain.

[tiramisu]

It makes sense to give several strength characteristics consideration:

Work Capacity
Absolute Strength
Explosiveness
Endurance

This is where periodized and conjugate methods shine for athletes. The guys you who have speed days, max effort days, and volume days develop all of these systems simultaneously.

Now whether this is the optimal method of building the most muscle is open for debate. Probably not in the short run but almost certainly in the long run.

In the short run I would venture to guess the fastest way to put 20 pounds of muscle on is to emphasize sarcoplasmic hypertrophy. Volume, volume, volume. In the intermediate run I would venture to guess that the answer would be to focus on myofibril hypertrophy (high intensity, moderate to low volume). and In the long run the best bang for the buck is to get all the systems working as best they can.

For athletes rather than bodybuilders this isn't even a question. Once an athlete is past a novice strength level s/he should be working all of these.

[devo09]

hey devo, you got a lot of knowledge as i can see from your post...

im interested to see some pics of how you have applied all that... clearly you have some as that is you in the lat spread in the avatar, right?

also, whats your stats? height, weight, years training?
i sense your being a little sarcastic; but,
I'm about 5'5 180ish
squat (with wraps+belt) 495x1
deadlift (belt+chalk, no straps) 545x1
db bench 130sx5

21yrs old, been training since about 15-16 (at that time it was sport specific). Last 2 years or so have been solely bodybuilding/powerlifting orientated

wouldnt it make sense to intentionally overtrain yourself to increase your capacity for training? I mean, your body is never going to adapt to a higher level unless you push yourself beyond your limits right? so in essence we should WANT to overtrain.
Yes, you want to temporarily overtrain yourself, this is called "overreaching". I think most people get this confused with overtraining. Overtraining is a neural strain that is largely a product of going to neuromuscular failure too often/long (low reps heavy weights). Anything 6+ reps and your really not going to hit neuro failure anyway, you're going to be limited by muscular failure, which is why I've said it's pretty much impossible to overtrain on a bodybuilding split.

[natenator]

Why do you always have to put people down? Does life make you that miserable that you act like this.I've seen your pics and maybe that's why you're so mad so maybe try to fix whats bothering you about yourself so you don't come across as a bitter clown. Just an idea.
Not bitter at all. Devo is an ass clown is comes on here spouting science over practical application and says that "with enough drugs anything is possible".

Some of us have been in this game long enough to know what's good and what isn't. His science once told us eating whole eggs had a negative effect on LDL and we now know that to be false. He has no practical application of which to apply his science or what he reads. He's a bookworm plain and simple.

He couldn't train anyone to achieve results.

I don't have the best physique in the world and never claimed to but I know a thing or 2 about putting on muscle mass. I'm 6'3 with 20" (maybe bigger?) arms, a 55" chest measurement and 32" quads and I only started gassing when I turned 30. I don't know it all and never will which is why I come on these boards and others and try to read as much as possible out there and then apply it in a practical sense. Devo is just a nerd who tries to argue against what works for so MANY.

I see no evidence to prove his theories also have practical application in himself OR a client base of people he has trained.

[Ritch]

It seems I must spread some reputation around before giving to Nate again...

[C-money]

i dont see why guys are busting up devos avi.. looks pretty solid.. and if his lifts are legit thats impressive.. its just egos getting in the way now.. realistically everyone is different and respond to different types of training, intensity/frequency... find what works for you, one method isnt better then another

[devo09]

Not bitter at all. Devo is an ass clown is comes on here spouting science over practical application
this statement just shows how stubborn you are, so we should just disregard all science? Or just the studies that you don't like the results of?

and says that "with enough drugs anything is possible".
Maybe that wasn't the best thing for me to say; regardless drugs change things and what works for someone enhanced won't necessarily work for someone who is not.


Some of us have been in this game long enough to know what's good and what isn't.
Who gives a shit how "long you've been in the game"? If you've been in the game so long then what are your bodybuilding/powerlifting/whatever accomplishments?

His science once told us eating whole eggs had a negative effect on LDL and we now know that to be false.
jury is actually still out on that one, SOME people that have genetically predisposed might still need to watch sat fat intake

He has no practical application of which to apply his science or what he reads. He's a bookworm plain and simple.
Are you just mad because you can't read books?



I don't know it all and never will which is why I come on these boards and others and try to read as much as possible out there and then apply it in a practical sense.
well there is your problem, you "read as much as possible" on public message boards lol.


Devo is just a nerd who tries to argue against what works for so MANY.
Just because something works doesn't make it optimal


I see no evidence to prove his theories also have practical application in himself OR a client base of people he has trained.
My theories? I don't have theories. I read information provided to me by my university+the likes of lyle mcdonald, alan aragon, layne norton, dr.joe klemzceski and others..and they have PLENTY of clients with results

[gojimmygo]

Not bitter at all. Devo is an ass clown is comes on here spouting science over practical application and says that "with enough drugs anything is possible".

Some of us have been in this game long enough to know what's good and what isn't. His science once told us eating whole eggs had a negative effect on LDL and we now know that to be false. He has no practical application of which to apply his science or what he reads. He's a bookworm plain and simple.

He couldn't train anyone to achieve results.

I don't have the best physique in the world and never claimed to but I know a thing or 2 about putting on muscle mass. I'm 6'3 with 20" (maybe bigger?) arms, a 55" chest measurement and 32" quads and I only started gassing when I turned 30. I don't know it all and never will which is why I come on these boards and others and try to read as much as possible out there and then apply it in a practical sense. Devo is just a nerd who tries to argue against what works for so MANY.

I see no evidence to prove his theories also have practical application in himself OR a client base of people he has trained.

I can't argue with anything you said. I was talking about you taking a "shot " at his appearance which is why I took a "shot" at the pics you posted when you were out of shape. Like you say you know a thing or two and I agree,so why not continue to be helpful but drop the attitude. It gets old sometimes bro.

[PdH]

LOL, ok, well then the greatest physique in the world would belong to Ronnie Coleman, The Greatest Bodybuilder Ever, and he trained twice a week,

I guess he lied in all his vids saying he trained each body part once a week.