how do you guys know the people you say are natty, actually are?

[waderow]

just wondering. so many of you here so intensely defend peoples claims that they are natural. do you tell everyone you juice? probably not.... **** even dremen doesnt tell EVERYONE.

So some of you here comment to the point of if we were in person there would be fist fights that some acquaintance, or some BBer or PLer who you barely know or dont know is natty. ****... some guys here have even tested positive for roids and you still defend them tooth and nail over their claims of natural training....

what makes you so sure?

just wondering. as far as the juice, i dont care either way.

my best friends can only assume, as I do not discuss. same with my family.

[CanadianIron]

I know naturals hate to hear it, but IMO anyone with "decent" size is not natural. The really lean guys who have definition but not a ton of mass can pass as natural though... IMO a guy who juices is obvious, if he denies gear its just a formality.

[waderow]

if i was making a living, I too would claim I was natty. just wondering why guys like us who know how difficult it is to achieve those goal even ON juice, buy it hook line and sinker.

it is not hard to keep roid use a secret

[Talo]

You can never be sure.

It's hard to tell . I always thought that if I guy was using he would be HUGE and still lean at the same time. Huge to me is someone that is a lot bigger than me. I don't think I'm huge , but some people do . So it's all perspective

But I've seen and been told by guys that they're on something and I just have to shake my head , because it's the typical guy who can't break 200 without help ? And they eat SO much food , but nothing works... Yeah right !

Also what is Natural ? Is it someone who sticks to the legal aspect of it ? PH's where once legal and at one time wasn't D-bol legal ? When these where legal is a guy still Natural ? Because a lot of people think that if it's not against the law then it's fine .

Test boosters , is that still natural ?

[BDH]

My biggest pet peeve- and someone on the board said it recently- is when a guy says "my buddy is natural, and I know that for a fact". You can't EVER know for a fact that someone is natural. Without being there 24/7, which you NEVER can be, you are never 100% sure. Plus, why is it such a selling feature? Does anyone really think less of someone who uses, when 90% of us use AAS?

[tiramisu]

... If all it took was aas to make you huge there would be a lot of very big guys out there and there simply isn't. It's just not the easy.... RATS.

[chiplin]

Yeah I take steroids... I eat that shit for breakfast, lunch and dinner.

[buildinthaskinnys]

Personally I could give a shit, not to sound ignorant or anything but either way its none of my business, I do laugh sometimes, if a person is bragging about all they do, more often or not they look like nothing and the people with great physiques will try to pretend they are natural when they arent, thats a contradiction in itself isnt it?

[L3]

i take their word for it

[waderow]

i take their word for it

i'm natural

[waderow]

My biggest pet peeve- and someone on the board said it recently- is when a guy says "my buddy is natural, and I know that for a fact". You can't EVER know for a fact that someone is natural. Without being there 24/7, which you NEVER can be, you are never 100% sure. Plus, why is it such a selling feature? Does anyone really think less of someone who uses, when 90% of us use AAS?

exactly.

[Dryvrgrl]

I am 100% certain I am natural.
I am 99.99999% certain Leigh is Natural.

the rest of you, I don't care about about. do what you want to do...

I am also 100% certain that when Leigh was winning her overall title at the Manitoba's last year, there was a crap load of people back stage wondering what she uses (some asked me what her stack is... I didn't even know what that meant until I joined this board), and 99.99999% certain people in the crowd assume she is on steroids. (family in the crowd told me)

[Praetorian]

just wondering. so many of you here so intensely defend peoples claims that they are natural. do you tell everyone you juice? probably not.... **** even dremen doesnt tell EVERYONE.

So some of you here comment to the point of if we were in person there would be fist fights that some acquaintance, or some BBer or PLer who you barely know or dont know is natty. ****... some guys here have even tested positive for roids and you still defend them tooth and nail over their claims of natural training....

what makes you so sure?

just wondering. as far as the juice, i dont care either way.

my best friends can only assume, as I do not discuss. same with my family.

Youll never know and it doesnt really matter. You do what you do for yourself and not for anyone else....and it is really nobody else's business. Your answer is no you have never tested positive for any drugs so that proves you dont take them.
P

[waderow]

I am 100% certain I am natural.
I am 99.99999% certain Leigh is Natural.

the rest of you, I don't care about about. do what you want to do...

I am also 100% certain that when Leigh was winning her overall title at the Manitoba's last year, there was a crap load of people back stage wondering what she uses (some asked me what her stack is... I didn't even know what that meant until I joined this board), and 99.99999% certain people in the crowd assume she is on steroids. (family in the crowd told me)

you claim to be natural, and you look the part. You work hard, you look great, and natural. Put yourself beside some of the girls in the pic section who claim to be natural and you will see what I mean that the natty claims are retarded sometimes.

But out of curiosity, what if Leigh had some var pills stashed at work and popped a few a day? how would you know? would you be mad (maybe she thinks you would so she hides it)?

Once again, I dont care if they use, and dont really care that they claim to be natty. This thread is about those of us who jump up with two fists in the air defending their claims, which kind of makes them look dumb

[waderow]

Youll never know and it doesnt really matter. You do what you do for yourself and not for anyone else....and it is really nobody else's business. Your answer is no you have never tested positive for any drugs so that proves you dont take them.
P

thats my rule of thumb. I dont care what others think. If anyone asks, I dont tell, and if anyone assumes I dont care.

[buildinthaskinnys]

Its like on this other board that I was on, this girl writes in asking if bodybuilders use inulin, because she found some insulin in her fridge and her boyfriends a bodybuilder, to her knowledge he doesnt use steroids and he never told her he was diabetic. So the question arises, If your live in gf doesnt know you are using drugs how the hell are you so sure that your best friend dosent use them? If people want to hide what they do from others they will do so with their best intentions and efforts. One thing I am never going to do, is defend someone and campaign till the bitter end that they are natural, friend or not , you never know what someone is taking completely.

[waderow]

Its like on this other board that I was on, this girl writes in asking if bodybuilders use inulin, because she found some insulin in her fridge and her boyfriends a bodybuilder, to her knowledge he doesnt use steroids and he never told her he was diabetic. So the question arises, If your live in gf doesnt know you are using drugs how the hell are you so sure that your best friend dosent use them? If people want to hide what they do from others they will do so with their best intentions and efforts. One thing I am never going to do, is defend someone and campaign till the bitter end that they are natural, friend or not , you never know what someone is taking completely.

was this recent? lol

oh oh

[buildinthaskinnys]

No this goes way back, I Cant even remember what board it was on, my point is though that people will even lie to their loved ones in order to hide the usage, thats why I just shake my head when people get on the podium and proclaim to know what people are actually doing with themselves, and deny up and down that drugs are involved.

[natenator]

I know naturals hate to hear it, but IMO anyone with "decent" size is not natural. The really lean guys who have definition but not a ton of mass can pass as natural though... IMO a guy who juices is obvious, if he denies gear its just a formality.
I didn't start gassing until I turned 30. I was big already.

I had 16 years in the gym by that point so I am not sure I agree with your assessment.

[waderow]

I didn't start gassing until I turned 30. I was big already.

I had 16 years in the gym by that point so I am not sure I agree with your assessment.

could you have won a pro card?

[natenator]

could you have won a pro card?
god no lol

But still bigger than the average and likely bigger than most guys here who are gassed up.

[Talo]

I didn't start gassing until I turned 30. I was big already.

I had 16 years in the gym by that point so I am not sure I agree with your assessment.

Did people assume you were on something then ? Even though you were not.

[natenator]

Did people assume you were on something then ? Even though you were not.
Yup. Even in High School and University people made that assumption. ALLLL the time

[CanadianIron]

People accused me of taking gear for the entire year before I actually started, so I know people wrongly accuse people. But between lifters, I think its pretty obvious to tell, its especially easy to see it, if you do it yourself. My best friends dont know I use gear, the only person who knows is my wife and she wouldnt tell a sole. I could definately imagine my friends telling other people something like, "I know for SURE he's natural, he would never use steroids"... so for that reason, Its easy for me to question anyone.

Once you get to a certain size, people will just assume you use gear, so you just have to be that much more impressive.

[natenator]

People accused me of taking gear for the entire year before I actually started, so I know people wrongly accuse people. But between lifters, I think its pretty obvious to tell, its especially easy to see it, if you do it yourself. My best friends dont know I use gear, the only person who knows is my wife and she wouldnt tell a sole. I could definately imagine my friends telling other people something like, "I know for SURE he's natural, he would never use steroids"... so for that reason, Its easy for me to question anyone.

Once you get to a certain size, people will just assume you use gear, so you just have to be that much more impressive.
I wouldn't know that Dremen used gear if I saw him in a gym... LOL

[Maria]

I get it all the time that I'm using and I'm not. If you actually heard me talk you would know I'm not using. LOL Nate can attest to that. People can believe what they want. I've done more tested shows then non-tested shows too. I am always tested because I look like I'm on something. Why would I take chances in getting caught. Pretty stupid in my opinion and pretty stupid for people who use to try and do a tested show. If you're not natural then don't do them!

Have you ever thought that some people are just genetically gifted? I totally believe in certain body types are built for certain sports.

I bet most of you on here think I'm not natural because one of the guys already stated that. Before I would have gotten pissed off but now, I don't care anymore. I consider it a compliment if you think I'm on something because I can hang with the other girls.

I don't care one way or the other if someone uses. I have a few of friends who do use and don't hold it against them. They choose to, that's their choice and they don't push it on me either because I choose not to.

I am getting to the point if I see someone I can tell for the most part, but online you can't tell and can only go by their word.

[waderow]

I get it all the time that I'm using and I'm not. If you actually heard me talk you would know I'm not using. LOL Nate can attest to that. People can believe what they want. I've done more tested shows then non-tested shows too. I am always tested because I look like I'm on something. Why would I take chances in getting caught. Pretty stupid in my opinion and pretty stupid for people who use to try and do a tested show. If you're not natural then don't do them!

Have you ever thought that some people are just genetically gifted? I totally believe in certain body types are built for certain sports.

I bet most of you on here think I'm not natural because one of the guys already stated that. Before I would have gotten pissed off but now, I don't care anymore. I consider it a compliment if you think I'm on something because I can hang with the other girls.

I don't care one way or the other if someone uses. I have a few of friends who do use and don't hold it against them. They choose to, that's their choice and they don't push it on me either because I choose not to.

I am getting to the point if I see someone I can tell for the most part, but online you can't tell and can only go by their word.

are you a natural blonde?
for some reason blondes seem to have a genetic advantage over others as well... Viking chicks ftw

and this thread isnt about you juicing... its about those who would jump to your defense when they could never know if you were telling the truth or not. Like Nate for instance. He could NEVER know and I dont care if you guys have known each other since childhood and you are BFF's and text each other deep into the night. he just couldnt know...so why does he initiate an argument with Andre who thought you juiced and "complimented" you earlier.

[Dryvrgrl]

But out of curiosity, what if Leigh had some var pills stashed at work and popped a few a day? how would you know? would you be mad (maybe she thinks you would so she hides it)?



hypothetically speaking, I would be hurt that she would lie to me. I'm pretty sure her locker with no lock on it kinda negates any "hiding" though lol. I guess if she really wanted to hid it... she could, which is why I left that 0.0001% doubt... but im quite sure she would discuss it with me first. Plus she's a bit of a nerd... she wouldn't take a dieretic except dandilion tea!

after her first Nationals, we had a talk about it. She decided it wasn't the route she wants to go. I think there are still opportunities and venues for her to explore as a natural athlete... (world qualifiers, IDFA, womens trifit) not to mention, she's only been at this really for 4 years.. so there is still alot of years to build that density up. And she's pretty damned stubborn... lol she'll bring me home a trophy from Nationals one day!!

I TOTALLY see the draw and lure of using.. ESPECIALLY for women!!.. there is only so many years that a womans look is marketable to begin with... (most of you piced the young looking ladies as better looking than the older ladies with the mature muscle)..trying to cram muscle density in with all the normal pressures on women (to have babies/families etc...) I can see how the pressure is there...

[Maria]

are you a natural blonde?
for some reason blondes seem to have a genetic advantage over others as well... Viking chicks ftw

and this thread isnt about you juicing... its about those who would jump to your defense when they could never know if you were telling the truth or not. Like Nate for instance. He could NEVER know and I dont care if you guys have known each other since childhood and you are BFF's and text each other deep into the night. he just couldnt know...so why does he initiate an argument with Andre who thought you juiced and "complimented" you earlier.

Yup a natural blonde.

Sorry got a little off topic.

I know it's not about me but with people jumping to my defense or other peoples' defense for that matter. There are obvious signs when using, easier to tell on women more so then on men. So when you actually meet someone in person you can tell. Yes, granted there are some people you can't tell when you see them but most educated people "just know". Those who aren't educated jump to conclusions.

[natenator]

are you a natural blonde?
for some reason blondes seem to have a genetic advantage over others as well... Viking chicks ftw

and this thread isnt about you juicing... its about those who would jump to your defense when they could never know if you were telling the truth or not. Like Nate for instance. He could NEVER know and I dont care if you guys have known each other since childhood and you are BFF's and text each other deep into the night. he just couldnt know...so why does he initiate an argument with Andre who thought you juiced and "complimented" you earlier.
For the record I didn`t initiate an argument with Andre. He stated blatantly that she was not natural and I just wanted him to at least back up his opinion or at the very least concede that it was possible. Afterall, he`s made claims that his progress going from fat to ripped was natural.

If that was possible with him why was the same not possible for Maria?

[waderow]

For the record I didn`t initiate an argument with Andre. He stated blatantly that she was not natural and I just wanted him to at least back up his opinion or at the very least concede that it was possible. Afterall, he`s made claims that his progress going from fat to ripped was natural.

If that was possible with him why was the same not possible for Maria?

yes, youre right. my mistake.
it was prior to andre where you claimed she was natty, but you defended that with andre

[tiramisu]

The far more interesting element is how many people are using steroids that to look at you would never guess. While these drugs are definitely effective I am envious and mystified by the guys who are able to add really visible amounts of muscle onto their frames in a short time. Neither caloric excess nor aas combined with heavy lifting have magically turned me into the incredible hulk. Bigger and stronger yes but @ 220, 5' 9" no one is going to mistake me for a bodybuilder.

I'm fairly sure there are plenty of 150 pound young men doing aas. When you see them in the gym you won't be guessing that they are doing aas.

I keep hoping that I can do something to my diet or training that will help me put on more muscle faster but I'm pretty sure that the real trick is to start young and spend a consistent 10 years at it, combined with good genes, diet and training.

[C-money]

With the original question wade asked, you will never really know if they are natty or not, unless youre with them 24/7 .. even then there is still a chance of poppin pills or a quick inject.. There is a small percentage of genetic freaks out there that do have really impressive physiques naturally who dont train hard at all.. they are put together well with muscle separations and vascularity from the get go... it sucks but thats just how it is... this one guy that goes to our gym has a killer physique.. he only weights about 160 pounds at 5'7" but hes just put together crazy... looks like hes a ripped 185 with veins popping everywhere.. the catch is hes not strong at all.. not 1 impressive lift

[O-Train]

The far more interesting element is how many people are using steroids that to look at you would never guess. While these drugs are definitely effective I am envious and mystified by the guys who are able to add really visible amounts of muscle onto their frames in a short time. Neither caloric excess nor aas combined with heavy lifting have magically turned me into the incredible hulk. Bigger and stronger yes but @ 220, 5' 9" no one is going to mistake me for a bodybuilder.

I'm fairly sure there are plenty of 150 pound young men doing aas. When you see them in the gym you won't be guessing that they are doing aas.

I keep hoping that I can do something to my diet or training that will help me put on more muscle faster but I'm pretty sure that the real trick is to start young and spend a consistent 10 years at it, combined with good genes, diet and training.

I was thinking about that too. There are a lot more guys that have taken steroids and you could never tell than there are natural guys who you may think have taken steroids.

[Big D]

I know a good bunch of guys at my gym take steroids and you would never guess,

they're small guys, and dont lift anything impressive.

and then we have this one guy benching 400 pounds by himself, his physique is far from great hes just a big guy, is he juicing ? I dont know, I dont really care, hes in the gym every day giving 100%

[Shortdave]

Now that I am using, if people ask I tell them. Unless of course they are in some sort of uniform with a badge.

[cog]

Now that I am using, if people ask I tell them. Unless of course they are in some sort of uniform with a badge.

So how are you finding the dark side?

Somebody can be large and still look natural,a truly broad frame sure helps.You can't always tell right away,if you work out at the same gym for awhile you can usually see evidence of some sort.My first observation of this was in 1971 on my football team.

[O-Train]

Dave was a mini-monster before AAS. He falls into the "looks like on steroids but isn't" category. The reason I'm working on strength and increasing numbers right now is that to be a big natural guy I think you need to move some serious weights. You can get big by using really good form, exercise selection, diet, controlled negatives etc...Right now I'm bigger than I am strong. To really get big I think you have to be strong.

[Shortdave]

So how are you finding the dark side?

Somebody can be large and still look natural,a truly broad frame sure helps.You can't always tell right away,if you work out at the same gym for awhile you can usually see evidence of some sort.My first observation of this was in 1971 on my football team.


I am not noticing a heck of a lot of difference. I did gain back the weight I had lost after my injury quite quickly though. I am only on Var and a little d-bol right now so it's not like I am running much.

[Rhinobolt10]

Umm.. personally I don't really care if someones natural or not, if they say it I believe it.. but if they aren't telling me and they've got a pile of zits and a bloated face I'm just assuming they don't want people to know for personal reasons.

What pissed me off is the guys who brag about how little they use... actually just one guy in particular. He's bragging about using 250 test a week and saying this and that, he doesn't use that much cause he doesn't want to blah blah... but then he goes through his supply faster than my other buddy who was using 500 a week... It's annoying as I say exactly what I'm taking and tries to bug me about being all juice or how I'm be nothing without it yadda yeadda... that's my pet peeve personally.

[Knuckles28]

My biggest pet peeve- and someone on the board said it recently- is when a guy says "my buddy is natural, and I know that for a fact". You can't EVER know for a fact that someone is natural. Without being there 24/7, which you NEVER can be, you are never 100% sure. Plus, why is it such a selling feature? Does anyone really think less of someone who uses, when 90% of us use AAS?

Same here, there's 2 brothers that go to my gym, one is a huge lad won the jr's and places very well in the heavy's now. well someone made a statement that this guy is on the gear well shit the other brother dam near punched buddy for making such a statement! my bro is a natty he say's. ya with the worst case of gyno ive seen in a long time.
I could care less if someones juicing or as i call it leveling the playing field :), but i do think it's easy to spot who is on.

[nisser]

This is an awesome thread and right on the money!

****ing pisses me off too when people say that.

[Adonis13]

does anyone think that if we all came out and were honest about the use of gear that people would see that its not as big a deal as its made out to be. especially when some guys who use gear don't even look as though they use it, maybe that would create a better understanding? or would it go the other way?

[tiramisu]

Possession may not be a crime but there is still the problem of where it came from and how you got it. Sometimes it's best just to keep your mouth shut.

[Gemini]

The question is: What if you're on juice, people assume you're a natty and when you tell them you're on juice they still don't believe you! Should you be offended? lol

[Adonis13]

The question is: What if you're on juice, people assume you're a natty and when you tell them you're on juice they still don't believe you! Should you be offended? lol

i would be

[Danger]

Weird thread... your against people defending others based on the fact that they cant possibly know for sure.

So shouldnt you also be against the accusations in the first place since they cant be proven either???

So the point of this is what...

[waderow]

Weird thread... your against people defending others based on the fact that they cant possibly know for sure.

So shouldnt you also be against the accusations in the first place since they cant be proven either???

So the point of this is what...

the point is to not get involved, as you just look dumb. Let that person defend their own claims, however retarded they may seem.

[gregdoucette]

what a long post for an answer that is very simple. U DON'T

[ironwill]

...

[Adonis13]

what a long post for an answer that is very simple. U DON'T

what if a 22 year old guy comes up to you who has been lifting and seems to want to learn, if you do sauce wouldn't you be one of the best to come for advice? even if an experienced lifter hasn't but had been in the game for a long time would know better than a 20 yr old?

[gregdoucette]

i really don't understand the question, I'd be happy to answer but I am not sure what ur asking. Is it if I am someone they should ask advice on training or steroids or what exactly. I mean ya for sure they should ask me for advice, I'm sure I know more then 99.999% of 22 years olds about anything related to training so can't hurt to ask for advice. Not sure if that answers ur question or not. If its how can u tell by looking if someone is on drugs, well its like trying to tell a girl how can u spot a guy who is good husband material. Sure there are signs but u never really know.
I mean severe acne or major gino, very pufy face are good signs. If ur gettign real personal a soft small testicle is a good sign. If you see them over a period of time, then getting way stronger or way bigger quickly is a good sign. or losing alot of muscle quickly is another good sign. Liek right now I am around 200 lbs for the last 2 weeks. If I am say 215 in a couple months and my bench went up 75 lbs then u should bet the farm that its not creatine or alot of chicken breasts. If the person is a competitive bodybuilder and over years has shown very slow and steady improvements without any major dramatic increases then they are likely not taking anythign good or if they are it can't be much. If all of a sudden they go from say 10 at provincials and the next year have gone up a weight class and placed 1st then you gotta think that the chances are its steriods.

Bottom line you dont really know.

[steve_d]

i really don't understand the question, I'd be happy to answer but I am not sure what ur asking.

I think he's asking if a 22 year old knows nothing about steroids, and he comes up to someone who is obviously taking something and looking for advice on steroids, THEN can you openly give out information and somewhat admitting your on.

I would think the answer to that is: you don't need to say "I take this or that" to give someone advice on what to take or not to take at all etc.

[HULK]

I know naturals hate to hear it, but IMO anyone with "decent" size is not natural. The really lean guys who have definition but not a ton of mass can pass as natural though... IMO a guy who juices is obvious, if he denies gear its just a formality.


I don't "juice" - and I carry a lot of size (one of biggest in the gym), use huge weights and on certain days when my OA is not as painful, I power lift using weights if not more than anyone in the gym. A lot of people assume that I use...
I may not be as cut as some of the guys in the gym and I'm could never earn a pro card and still - people swear I use. I personally don't give a rat ass concerning others using but for myself, I really hate it when someone accuses me of been un-natural.