Are you really recovered? Have you really done any damage to yourself?

[physique]

Okay Guys and Girls

I am writing this today, not for sympathy. But to put a little bug in your heads.
i am pro- steroid use. I have done it, and always thought i would do it again someday. (still might but bear with me here). but really do u really know what can happen.

all of us, i am sure have read the pro's and the cons of steroid use. and the majority of us i am sure have seen the pros of steroid use, and some of us have seen what we would consider the cons of steroid use. but thats only on the surface.

What are the cons underneath. The possible irreversible damage that could be taking place in our heads,hearts,lungs,.liver,vagina's and testicles.

i have been on these boards 14 years. And i have read many things, and learned a shit load of information. I have also read stories of suicide, crazy sex stories, training stories, cycles that have been low dosage to absolute insane dosages, crazy experiements with different drugs to make one self grow taller( sphinx) and of course post cycle therapy threads.

i am going to talk about post cycle therapy threads a little here.
I would say a good majority of people who take steroids all say that a post cycle therapy should be done. I will agree with this. but most also say that you should get blood tests done, again i agree with this aswell.
But just because those come back good doesnt mean u havent done irreversible damage to yourself.

where am i going with this you may ask? Sit tight i am getting there.

The majority of users out there are young. Yes there are older folks too. we all talk about a age group before one should start using gear or waiting until your natural ability is reached.
Well i think some of us should ask ourselves this question before ever taking steroids. "Do i want to have kids when i get older"?

If the answer is no i guess you can stop reading and keep doing what u are doing. For the ones who answered yes or maybe, then listen up.
Blood tests or any test means crap as to whether you have done any damage to yourself when it comes to your possibility of making a baby down the road.

A sperm test is what you need to do. In fact i think if you answered maybe or yes to the above question, then a sperm test should be done before a cycle and after a cycle. This way you will truely see if you are doing damage to your swimers, or killing any off.
No one ever recomends this test when talking about steroids or post cycle therapy cycles. Never have i see it in 14 years.

Why have i brough this up. Well it should be obvious, cause this is happening to me. again i am not looking for sympathy here. just to let those know that they should be sure before taking steroids to look better at the beach or for that novice/provincial/national show. It could affect you down the road.

I never took huge cycles by any means. no more then 500mg test and 400mg eq for offseason run 16 weeks. and for the shows i did it was tren enth 200mg a week, with prop 100mg eod, and 50mg winny last 4 weeks.
This cycle would be laughed at on the majority of the boards if not all.
and i have been clean now for 4 years.

i was against having kids with my current gf. but deep down i think it would be cool. Now that i have been told that this may never happen, it really sends a wake up call to oneself. yes i am looking at other procedures and i nor my doctor arent even 100% sure my problem is from steroid use.
but what if it is?????

and yes there are those on the other side of the coin, who have gotten there gf's/wives prego when on cycle or off. I am just pointing out what may happen to your swimers by using steroids.

so i want the masses here to take note. Make sure you know what u want out of life as i consider this community as my friends. and i wouldnt wish this on any of you.

I am not trying to save the world with this post, just putting a bug in your brains as to what can happen.

[GYMBRAT]

GREAT post!!! I tell punks the similar story all the time..I know there are some that listen as well.....no I'm not a hypocrite, just learned from experience :)

[tiramisu]

off to the endocrinologist. There is a very good chance they can get you functioning for at least the period required to do the deed. Hypogonadism's a bitch.

Sadly your story, will only be considered by those willing to consider it. Between bullshit marketing and the desire to look like adonis many young men will do just about anything whether it works or not.

There is a multi-billion dollar industry that prey's on this.

[#8]

no kids for me. gas it up!

[dremen]

Like i've said before i will take my chances with steroids rather then booze or drugs or smoking.

If i had a teenage son and he asked what is better to use, rec drugs or a test/dbol cycle i would say steroids are less risky.

I think a bodybuilding diet is worse for a person vs. steroid use itself.

Bulking and cutting each year, high calorie/high fat diet then dieting down MUST be hard on the body as the body only wants a normal routine as far as diet goes. Just my thoughts though.

[vakker]

great post, thats been on my mind lately.

I think of it this way, what is done is done. I would love to adopt.

[marino]

Great post/info physique. My wife and I aren't having kids however just imagine because of steroid usage your children coming out looking like Jersey's avi.

[z83]

rofl^^

[dremen]

Great post/info physique. My wife and I aren't having kids however just imagine because of steroid usage your children coming out looking like Jersey's avi.


Steroid use in males won't produce mutated children. It does NOT alter your DNA it just slows or even stops sperm production. That's what bugs me man. Shit the ex wanted me to cum all over her face once and after she waited FOREVER for me to pop i only managed to pump out 2ml or so on her nose....lol, PATHETIC.

Im no Peter North in that department when on cycle i have to admit....lol

P.s. I've heard male porn stars use HIGH doses of clomid to produce such high volumes of cum?

[marino]

Steroid use in males won't produce mutated children.

Easy there Dremen just having a little fun. Jerseys avi freaks the shit out of me. Like what's hiding under my bed creepy.

[pseclint]

I have used gear off and on for almost 6 years now, was clean for 8 months and BAM got my woman pregnant..... if anything it was helping me at the time..... shit........

[CanadianIron]

Something definately worth concidering, and something that is always in the back of my head. Its always unnerving when your man juice turns into a big wadd of nothing halfway through a cycle. But then again, i got my wife pregnant 1 month after a PCT and my baby turned out perfectly.

[slick rick]

Good Post Phys..I didn't start dabbling with AAS until after i finished having kids but your post really puts things in perspective, in regards to long term effects it may have.

I read about all these wrestlers dieing, granted i think other factors played a part in their early death but I am sure gear was a big part of it. Thats kind of your point, we don't really know for sure what effect AAS has had on us.

thanks for bringing it up bro....i hope all works out for you and your girl.

[dremen]

Good Post Phys..I didn't start dabbling with AAS until after i finished having kids but your post really puts things in perspective, in regards to long term effects it may have.

I read about all these wrestlers dieing, granted i think other factors played a part in their early death but I am sure gear was a big part of it. Thats kind of your point, we don't really know for sure what effect AAS has had on us.

thanks for bringing it up bro....i hope all works out for you and your girl.


Hold on bro wrestlers who get jacked abviously bodybuild, but there NOT bodybuilders. Shit all these wrestlers who died were on NUMEROUS drugs for numerous things like bp, angziety(sp?), sleeping meds ect and that's not even counting rec drugs like coke and uppers and god knows what else.

Look at all the old school bodybuilders who stayed clean from harmful drugs and looked after there bodies while useing steroids, there still alive and kicking.

I will use steroids till the day i die and if i die from a heart attack or cancer it's more then likely because i used to smoke ciggs.

Steroid use in moderate doses should'nt create any health problems that last long term and besides your chances of dieing from something else is WAY higher in todays world....lol

[tiramisu]

semen volume, erections and fertility are 3 different things. It seems like people are confusing them a bit.

[pseclint]

semen volume, erections and fertility are 3 different things. It seems like people are confusing them a bit.

who you calling confused!!???

you wont be saying that when Im pounding you with my hard semen and blow all my fertility all over you but we should be ok because your not erect....

[kloan]

^^hahahaha....... :D

[vakker]

I will use steroids till the day i die and if i die from a heart attack or cancer it's more then likely because i used to smoke ciggs.

Steroid use in moderate doses should'nt create any health problems that last long term and besides your chances of dieing from something else is WAY higher in todays world....lol

You are very immature.

[dremen]

You are very immature.


Where the hell did that come from fakker, ooops i ment vakker....lol

You need to pull your head out of yer ass bro and get off yer high horse.

You don't like what i say then put me on ignore, that or shut the **** up man.:ji

[natenator]

and the real Dreman is back!

[slick rick]

Dreman with a successful thread hijack, the point of Physiques thread isn't for us to debate how wrestlers die or how thick your jizz is, lol. It is a reminder the AAS does not come risk free.

[natenator]

Dreman with a successful thread hijack, the point of Physiques thread isn't for us to debate how wrestlers die or how thick your jizz is, lol. It is a reminder the AAS does not come risk free.
Bingo and regardless of usage amounts anyone who believes otherwise is a fool.

[dremen]

Dreman with a successful thread hijack, the point of Physiques thread isn't for us to debate how wrestlers die or how thick your jizz is, lol. It is a reminder the AAS does not come risk free.


Anyone who uses steroids thinking it's risk free is a tool IMHO. Then again nothing in life is risk free. And bro like non of my threads get hijacked here so chill out.

Nate: Put me on ignore or STFU bro, we all know how you feel about me and to be quite honest you just sound like a broken record.

[Delt King]

Good point Physique. Gearing has it's risks.
Does any real info/ studies done on sperm production and AAS usage exist. I haven't found any in my quick google.

[PdH]

Does any real info/ studies done on sperm production and AAS usage exist. I haven't found any in my quick google.

The study looked at fertile men, and treatment with testosterone was used to decrease sperm production. Testosterone treatment is known to decrease hormones of the brain that signal the testes to produce sperm.

http://www.webmd.com/sex/birth-control/news/20090506/testosterone-tested-as-male-contraceptive

[Talo]

i was against having kids with my current gf. but deep down i think it would be cool. Now that i have been told that this may never happen, it really sends a wake up call to oneself. yes i am looking at other procedures and i nor my doctor arent even 100% sure my problem is from steroid use.
but what if it is?????

That sucks man. Hopefully everything turns out ok for you , as I'm sure it will.

[theboss]

i seem to have made out fine and got my wife pregnant...

1g Test E.....600mg Tren E....each week
50mg winny a day......

but i do hope you can resolve your situation Phys.

[MuSuLPhReAk]

Sorry to hear about your situation Physique.
Over the last decade, my views on AAS have changed pretty significantly from being pro use wild west style to conservative use, to responsible use, to borderline pro use.
It's not that steroids are evil or anything. It's the mentality of users that have made me start to think it is better to be controlled than to allow everyone to do what they want with them. One of the big factors is teens using them. I mean guys 13, 14, 15 and so on around that age. They need to be put over someone's knee and spanked. Kids should never be near this stuff. PERIOD.

Then the older guys in their 20's and 30's going all out balls to wall style of use just recreational and not even to compete. Since they can't "feel" any side effects they think everything is a-ok. Until one day, they realize they've damaged their kidneys, arteries, heart, testes, etc and it's irrepairable or sustainable with more drugs only.

I am still pro-choice when it comes to AAS but I am also very strong on sharing the REAL facts. The risks and the benefits.

When the government made steroids illegal to buy and sell for aesthetic reasons and enforcing that steroids only be given to burn patients, testosterone deficient men etc.., it created the underground world which in turn presents more health risks to the end user. Mislabeled products, heavy metals in the products, contamination, and so on.
Then on the flip-side. If a women feels she is really a man and wants to undergo a sex change, she can legally get male hormones to undergo this process. If she wants larger breasts, she pays for them. If she wants larger lips, same. If someone wants wrinkles gone, they inject botox in their face which is a poison if I remember correctly.

So WTF is wrong with the world?? Quite a lot it seems. Even if all the bodybuilding communities of the net band together, thdre isn't much we can do to change anything. So what we do is to educate one another with "bro science" and hope one day things will be better for everyone.

There is much much more I want to say on this topic but I will leave it for the near future.

[rickyboy36]

With my expeirience while being on several bodybuilding forums for a few years now is that "Most" damage comes from ABUSE.People abuse themselves with high doses and the amount of time they stay on.For the most part,if they would of had blood work done,then alot of them wouldnt of had any damage..even the ones who went a bit higher.

But another thing people need to realize is that some are born with malformations(heart,liver) in which they are not even aware of.And if this should be the case,then yes you are exposing yourself to dangers.But what are the odds?Thats the question you need to ask yourself.Is it worth taking the risk?Just like someone who is taking viagra,ephedrine..they have chances of suffering a heart attack if they have some form of heart malformation.But only a few people have died from that with millions taking them everyday.And remember,its not because one has liver damage while hes on steroids,that its the steroids that caused it.many people jump to conclusions rather quickly.it could of been something totaly diffeent that cause that

But i do get your point Physique and im really sorry it turned out like that.All i can say to the younger people who are determined to continue or start up on a cycle is to remain LOW with doses...come off regularly..and get blood work done and EAT HEALTHY!!

[MuSuLPhReAk]

Abuse is all relative Ricky. To the general population, even 500mgs of testosterone a week is considered abuse if you don't medically need it. To the average bodybuilder, that's a responsible low dose. When we start seeing 1.5g to 2 grams a week, then we call it abuse.

Don't forget, we are jaded to AAS use because we read so much of this stuff a lot is ok in our heads. Not so for people that have never come near this stuff or read about it. Now if the saying about pros are true and they take high amounts like 1-2g's a week of test and stuff like that, the typical 500mgs of test to them seem like girly amounts.

It's all relative to who's eyes your looking out of.

[Delt King]

The study looked at fertile men, and treatment with testosterone was used to decrease sperm production. Testosterone treatment is known to decrease hormones of the brain that signal the testes to produce sperm.

http://www.webmd.com/sex/birth-control/news/20090506/testosterone-tested-as-male-contraceptive

Thanks Pdh...it's an interesting read, basically 500mg of test undecanoate
every three months for 30months resulted in temporary infertility for asian men. It must be combined with progestin to be effective in white males. All were men were good to go again on average 6.5months after the study.

[bongd]

I just hate how all the ****ing idiots will juice up and decide everything based on bro science and intuition. If they can't feel their liver hurting, they must be okay!!

Little do these ****ing idiots know that all the REAL damage is asymptomatic. The worst of the worst is not "FELT". But let these idiots kill themselves off. I do nothing but try to educate people and participate in scientific, responsible discussion. I like having a little fun myself but damn, does it ever get aggravating when people turn the tables and attack ME. All these geniuses have never gotten a blood test or read anything outside of steroid propaganda from websites that either sell steroids or sell fake ones to noobs LOL

/tren rage :ne

[rickyboy36]

Abuse is all relative Ricky. To the general population, even 500mgs of testosterone a week is considered abuse if you don't medically need it. To the average bodybuilder, that's a responsible low dose. When we start seeing 1.5g to 2 grams a week, then we call it abuse.

Don't forget, we are jaded to AAS use because we read so much of this stuff a lot is ok in our heads. Not so for people that have never come near this stuff or read about it. Now if the saying about pros are true and they take high amounts like 1-2g's a week of test and stuff like that, the typical 500mgs of test to them seem like girly amounts.

It's all relative to who's eyes your looking out of.

I agree its relative..but there are certain "rules"or "reference points" you should comply with.One are you a bodybuilder?if so then we can start accessing things.If your not,then HRT would probably be a SAFE dose if you need it.Now 500mgs of test is pretty safe for a bodybuilder if he/she is a healthy individual and comes off like they are suppose to.What people abuse are the doses and lenghts of cycles cause they ALWAYS WANT MORE.And honestly,no one should ever go over 750-100mgs If they are not going to be a competitor,or make a living off bodybuilding.What would be the point?Just to look better?This is where i would draw the line and call it unessesary abuse.If you were going to make a living with it..then thats a choice you're going to have to make.Is your health worth it?Cause anything over a gram starts to be risky in my opinion.But then Again,and i agree..its relative.But relative or not..people should respect the 750-1000mg mark no matter what.I just think that if people follow whats right and get BLOOD WORK done,they can have fun with this and have very good chances of not suffering from any damage.But just like anything else in this world,there are always risks..and its up to you to weigh them out..

[natenator]

I just hate how all the ****ing idiots will juice up and decide everything based on bro science and intuition. If they can't feel their liver hurting, they must be okay!!

Little do these ****ing idiots know that all the REAL damage is asymptomatic. The worst of the worst is not "FELT". But let these idiots kill themselves off. I do nothing but try to educate people and participate in scientific, responsible discussion. I like having a little fun myself but damn, does it ever get aggravating when people turn the tables and attack ME. All these geniuses have never gotten a blood test or read anything outside of steroid propaganda from websites that either sell steroids or sell fake ones to noobs LOL

/tren rage :ne
I used to sell guys salt tabs in University and pawn it off as dbol LOL I never used myself back then but sure was funny to see these ****er swell up then deflate hahahah

[nisser]

Okay Guys and Girls

I am writing this today, not for sympathy. But to put a little bug in your heads.
i am pro- steroid use. I have done it, and always thought i would do it again someday. (still might but bear with me here). but really do u really know what can happen.

all of us, i am sure have read the pro's and the cons of steroid use. and the majority of us i am sure have seen the pros of steroid use, and some of us have seen what we would consider the cons of steroid use. but thats only on the surface.

What are the cons underneath. The possible irreversible damage that could be taking place in our heads,hearts,lungs,.liver,vagina's and testicles.

i have been on these boards 14 years. And i have read many things, and learned a shit load of information. I have also read stories of suicide, crazy sex stories, training stories, cycles that have been low dosage to absolute insane dosages, crazy experiements with different drugs to make one self grow taller( sphinx) and of course post cycle therapy threads.

i am going to talk about post cycle therapy threads a little here.
I would say a good majority of people who take steroids all say that a post cycle therapy should be done. I will agree with this. but most also say that you should get blood tests done, again i agree with this aswell.
But just because those come back good doesnt mean u havent done irreversible damage to yourself.

where am i going with this you may ask? Sit tight i am getting there.

The majority of users out there are young. Yes there are older folks too. we all talk about a age group before one should start using gear or waiting until your natural ability is reached.
Well i think some of us should ask ourselves this question before ever taking steroids. "Do i want to have kids when i get older"?

If the answer is no i guess you can stop reading and keep doing what u are doing. For the ones who answered yes or maybe, then listen up.
Blood tests or any test means crap as to whether you have done any damage to yourself when it comes to your possibility of making a baby down the road.

A sperm test is what you need to do. In fact i think if you answered maybe or yes to the above question, then a sperm test should be done before a cycle and after a cycle. This way you will truely see if you are doing damage to your swimers, or killing any off.
No one ever recomends this test when talking about steroids or post cycle therapy cycles. Never have i see it in 14 years.

Why have i brough this up. Well it should be obvious, cause this is happening to me. again i am not looking for sympathy here. just to let those know that they should be sure before taking steroids to look better at the beach or for that novice/provincial/national show. It could affect you down the road.

I never took huge cycles by any means. no more then 500mg test and 400mg eq for offseason run 16 weeks. and for the shows i did it was tren enth 200mg a week, with prop 100mg eod, and 50mg winny last 4 weeks.
This cycle would be laughed at on the majority of the boards if not all.
and i have been clean now for 4 years.

i was against having kids with my current gf. but deep down i think it would be cool. Now that i have been told that this may never happen, it really sends a wake up call to oneself. yes i am looking at other procedures and i nor my doctor arent even 100% sure my problem is from steroid use.
but what if it is?????

and yes there are those on the other side of the coin, who have gotten there gf's/wives prego when on cycle or off. I am just pointing out what may happen to your swimers by using steroids.

so i want the masses here to take note. Make sure you know what u want out of life as i consider this community as my friends. and i wouldnt wish this on any of you.

I am not trying to save the world with this post, just putting a bug in your brains as to what can happen.

Ok simple question. Did you do said sperm test 14 years ago before you started gear? How do you know you didn't have low sperm count to begin with? How do you separate the effect of gear with the effect of age?

Keep in mind, i'm not disagreeing with you. But the questions I layed out are reasonable and should be thought about as well.

[vakker]

Where the hell did that come from fakker, ooops i ment vakker....lol

You need to pull your head out of yer ass bro and get off yer high horse.

You don't like what i say then put me on ignore, that or shut the **** up man.:ji

I'd rather berate you and your terrible advice/opinions until you submit, **** off, and hopefully fall off a cliff.

[Talo]

I used to sell guys salt tabs in University and pawn it off as dbol LOL I never used myself back then but sure was funny to see these ****er swell up then deflate hahahah

Shit , Did you make some good coin ?

[L3]

I used to sell guys salt tabs in University and pawn it off as dbol LOL I never used myself back then but sure was funny to see these ****er swell up then deflate hahahah

i tried to buy some salt tablets, the pharmacist said they dont sell them anymore...wtf??

[natenator]

Shit , Did you make some good coin ?
I did lol

[ironwill]

i tried to buy some salt tablets, the pharmacist said they dont sell them anymore...wtf??

gotta go underground....

[nii]

gotta go underground....

nate prob got his tabs from an UGL which claimed they were salt tabs, but really dbol.

[natenator]

nate prob got his tabs from an UGL which claimed they were salt tabs, but really dbol.
When I was in school there wa no such thing as UGL. Not all of us on this board are 21 :P

[JonnyO]

Sorry to hear that Phys. It was always in the back of my head as well, I was always a bit hesitant before starting any cycle with the thoughts of not having children...but from what I have gathered your case is pretty Un-common. Most steroid users will not have that problem unless there was some pre-existing issues to begin with and of course now for you to be able to tell if there was or not is impossible. I can say with confidence if you see a good endocrinologist he should be able to get you going...I've had friends in similar situations go through a lot of hard work for a few years but with a lot of preserverance they conceived. I had one friend try for over a year, he did some HCG and a month later they conceived. To keep positive bro.

And for the few dumbasses saying they will use gear for life and til they die give your head a shake. I bet you arent even over 200lbs lean yet and dont have half the physique that you should have considering the amounts you are on and have used! I guarantee if you get in a similar situation as Phys which thankfully isnt the end of the world or health degrading, but if you end up with say heart problems or kidney issues you will be eating your words big time...think about it.

Since my child I have a whole different outlook on life, not as wild as I was and reckless. I make sure to hit my PCT hard and from every angle and keep my cycles shorter than most.

[tiramisu]

The endocrinologist will almost assuredly prescribe hcg if there is a low sperm count or motility.

[bongd]

I used to sell guys salt tabs in University and pawn it off as dbol LOL I never used myself back then but sure was funny to see these ****er swell up then deflate hahahah

The even funnier thing is that those dumbasses were probably happier than a clam, bragging about their big lifts and lamenting about their roid rage too!!

Good job. If someone's stupid enough then I don't see it as exploitation.

[physique]

Ok simple question. Did you do said sperm test 14 years ago before you started gear? How do you know you didn't have low sperm count to begin with? How do you separate the effect of gear with the effect of age?

Keep in mind, i'm not disagreeing with you. But the questions I layed out are reasonable and should be thought about as well.

the post wasnt to blame steroids at all man. you make valid posts, and thats what i was trying to say in my original post. one should do a sperm test before after every cycle. (in fact i am sure i said that in there somewhere)

maybe i did have low to zero sperm count all along. i dont know, and there is no way to ever find that out now.

but lets say i was a normal person 14 years ago, and it is the steroids that did it. thats all i am trying to say in the original thread.
to make reasonable CHOICES and weigh the pros and cons, as one can never be sure the CHOICES we make today or in the future are the right ones.

I know deep down the post will be read by young people and laughed at, i am not stupid. but there may be the odd person that reads it and takes everything in it to heart.

i am still pro-steroid, that will never change. Its the risks and outcomes that we cant predict that i am trying to bring to peoples attention thats all.

[physique]

The endocrinologist will almost assuredly prescribe hcg if there is a low sperm count or motility.

problem here though. its not low sperm count that i have. its ZERO sperm count. not even 1 swimer in my batches.

but one can only sit here and wait till the referal doctor process runs its train.

[tiramisu]

zero is pretty darn low. keep us up to date on the process. my wife has been banging the baby drum so I may be next in line.

[vakker]

I've never heard of steroid making you infertile, just being used like the pill. I hope things work out for you.

[tiramisu]

sterility is a not uncommon condition in pro bodybuilders.

Most of the stuff I've read by endocrinologists says that they have pretty decent luck getting the hpta axis working again, at least well enough to get your wife pregnant but it's a pretty common problem for long term juicers. Being "shut down" isn't about an inability to get an erection. It mean your hpta axis is not working correctly The hypthalmic-pituitary-gonadal axis controls your ability to reproduce.

[vakker]

sterility is a not uncommon condition in pro bodybuilders.

Most of the stuff I've read by endocrinologists says that they have pretty decent luck getting the hpta axis working again, at least well enough to get your wife pregnant but it's a pretty common problem for long term juicers. Being "shut down" isn't about an inability to get an erection. It mean your hpta axis is not working correctly The hypthalmic-pituitary-gonadal axis controls your ability to reproduce.

question remains: how many on this board are pro bodybuilders? If there is a backlash of fertility issues over the next decade, with the rise of the internet and avaliblity of the drugs, will it spread to the non-pro or rec users?

[bigben]

The reality is that when things do go wrong, you look back and ask "what if", looking for answers as to why things happened, and whether the juice you used, or other explanations were the cause of your problems. Maybe they did, maybe they didn't. Reality is you'll never know. Even non-smokers get lung cancer. I'm in my mid 40's, and managed to recover from use. But I have no idea whether my swimmers are good, or even exist. I'm done with that phase of my life. I keep lifting, try to stay in shape, but am mindful of wanting to be as healthy as possible for the long haul. Every once in a while I think to myself how nice it would be to be on something, growing, getting stronger. Then I have to admit that I do worry about losing what I do have.

[natenator]

The reality is that when things do go wrong, you look back and ask "what if", looking for answers as to why things happened, and whether the juice you used, or other explanations were the cause of your problems. Maybe they did, maybe they didn't. Reality is you'll never know. Even non-smokers get lung cancer. I'm in my mid 40's, and managed to recover from use. But I have no idea whether my swimmers are good, or even exist. I'm done with that phase of my life. I keep lifting, try to stay in shape, but am mindful of wanting to be as healthy as possible for the long haul. Every once in a while I think to myself how nice it would be to be on something, growing, getting stronger. Then I have to admit that I do worry about losing what I do have.
hey dude... how's your wife????

[physique]

sterility is a not uncommon condition in pro bodybuilders.

Most of the stuff I've read by endocrinologists says that they have pretty decent luck getting the hpta axis working again, at least well enough to get your wife pregnant but it's a pretty common problem for long term juicers. Being "shut down" isn't about an inability to get an erection. It mean your hpta axis is not working correctly The hypthalmic-pituitary-gonadal axis controls your ability to reproduce.

what stands as long term juicer? i maybe did 1 cycle a year for no more then 16 weeks.

hell i know a guy that has been on tren for 2 years straight. too me that would be a long term and abuse juicer.

[bigben]

hey dude... how's your wife????

Thanks for asking. Hope you don't mind that I did a cut and paste here from another post:

Hey guys. Thanks for the kind words. I'll bring you up to date. My wife's diagnosis was around 14 months ago. She's undergone a double mastectomy with reconstruction, a nasty 6 rounds of chemo, rads, and is now on tamoxifen and a clinical trial of zolodronic acid to prevent recurrance. She's doing well and slowly rebuilding her life and energy. So far, so good, no signs of recurrance. She has to live her life to the fullest, and one day at a time. From what I've read, recurrance (which is incurable) could happen pretty much at any time, but the further you are out from initial diagnosis, the better your odds. We are staying positive, and she's doing everything she can to win this battle. The thing I'll leave you all with is to never simply accept the advice of your Doctors. If your wife or GF has some abnormality, push for a biopsy. Ultrasounds and mamograms can be false negatives. The system plays the odds, and the younger you are, the more chances they take because they believe you are less likely to have cancer at a young age. But the other side of the coin is, women who get breast cancer young, are much less likely to survive. Vigilence is about your only weapon. Don't be the one that falls through the cracks.

[Big D]

no kids for me. gas it up!


X2

[beserker]

Wow ! Thats an awesome post and to tell the truth that is one side effect that i have never given any consideration to..... definate eye opener

[jaws]

I have used gear off and on for almost 6 years now, was clean for 8 months and BAM got my woman pregnant..... if anything it was helping me at the time..... shit........


Same here before my second son I had been on for a little ver a year, took over a year off and BAM baby #2 on the way as planned. he is just as health with no complications from day one.
Dam though the teething make the kid seem like he is on a roid rage lol!

But every man is different...

Gerat post/topic by the way.

[nitrous]

ya this thread is an eye opener.. good luck physique and keep us posted

[tony_canuck]

i'm glad someone is talking about these things, it seems from the boards (which are littered with young guys) that most just talk about how much should they use, what do the pro's do etc... before just jumping the gun it's good to think about the potential consequences

[ky_macdonald]

I agree most users are ignorant of how to use and what damage it can do if abused. These are risks that many of us take but many users on this board have no idea of anything

[chordz]

problem here though. its not low sperm count that i have. its ZERO sperm count. not even 1 swimer in my batches.

but one can only sit here and wait till the referal doctor process runs its train.

A zero sperm count usually means a blockage, could even be from an infection that caused the blockage. Good luck and hope you find out the cause.

[physique]

get a ultra sound tomorrow. then the urologist feb 22.

so far they think there might be a blockage or the fact, that my nuts are up inside me. warmth kills sperm.

lmao, too much information about myself. but i am the ginni pig for the next person this happens too i guess

[chordz]

get a ultra sound tomorrow. then the urologist feb 22.

so far they think there might be a blockage or the fact, that my nuts are up inside me. warmth kills sperm.

lmao, too much information about myself. but i am the ginni pig for the next person this happens too i guess

I heard that if the veins aren't controlling the temp right down there it could also cause this....I am heading for a test myself next week then one a week later.

[Lykalotopus]

Just found this post, good call.

Have to admit I wasn't the smartest with PCT over the past few years, luckily, the boys swim, wife is due in Aug.

[BAM]

I used to sell guys salt tabs in University and pawn it off as dbol LOL I never used myself back then but sure was funny to see these ****er swell up then deflate hahahah

Karma is a mother****er.

[Lykalotopus]

Just another thought, when I was on holidays in Hawaii, one evening in the hotel room we watched a show about a doctor in St Louis who was successfully harvesting sperm from testicle biopsy's & using them for invetro.

[tiramisu]

Testicle Biopsy. Now there's a phrase to make you curl up and die.

[zziggzzigg]

good thread Physique, and there are lots of things to consider, we realize as we get older that our wreckless attitudes when we were younger were wreckless, and that goes for everything in life, when we are young we think getting older is way in the future, it is almost abstract, but the years go by ridiculously fast and then we worry about things like our hearts and our joints might ache and muscle tears or injuries that never totally heal and we realize our bodies have limitations and we need to be careful and take the best care of ourselves

I wish our bodies had a reset button like in video games where I could start over being 18 again

[physique]

Testicle Biopsy. Now there's a phrase to make you curl up and die.

funny u bring this up. when the doctor first called me with the results i asked how we could conceive. and this was my option.
so i asked how it is done. and yep, they shove a needle into your testicle and draw out what they can and grow it into a sperm.

i nearly passed out, when he said he ws gonna stick a needle in my testes.
i hope to god i dont have to get this done, as i dont want to tell anyone on here about it. lol

[Lykalotopus]

The show I watched had a couple that had a zero chance of natural conception, I think they mentioned a number of $14K US per shot & that it was painful but not earth shattering.

The guy they did it to in the episode was almost totally dry, they only recovered a few mobile live sperm from the biopsy & did a direct to egg injection/fertilization. In this particular couples case, it failed & they did not conceive on that try, but planned to try again.

I have to say, I've respected you in general on this board & through our dealings for sometime, but to come forward & basically talk about this in public is an incredibly brave & humbling thing to do and it's a shame more men can't talk openly with their non-internet friends about these things.

I've seen the anguish the inability to conceive can have on a couple, close friends of mine went through 6 years and 7 miscarriages of hell before being blessed with a child.

Obviously, it's a very very tough subject, but major kudos to you for having the balls (no pun intended) to be man enough to talk about this kind of thing.

Personally, I found it absolutely fascinating the way they took that tiny piece of testicle & magnified it & extracted individual sperm in their process, I was glued to the TV.

[physique]

heres a update.

this is getting tougher to talk about on here, as right now things look very bleek for me and my girl.

i have primary testicular failure. doctor says its not from gear, as i have been off long enough now and i documented all past cycles, and the dosages i took according to him could not have caused this.

we have 1 more chance, i need to whack it in a cup one more time and hope to god there is something active inn there. if it comes up as zero again,we are ****ed. to do a biopsy there needs to be at least sometrhing there top take and grow into a sperm.

after that only options will be sperm donor or adoption. and i am not sure i could do either of those. i dont know how i feel about someone elses attributes especially any ****ed up ones being ina kid i have to take care of.

i am in a daze right now though, its really bugging me and making me think what i want.
personally i would like to just pack up and go somewherre, away from everyone including my gf to just have fun somewhere and not think about things for a while.

[ironwill]

Hoping the best for you Physique............

[CanadianIron]

You could always go for the ironic approach... cheat on your gf and chances are the girl you cheat with will get pregnant... it always works this way.

[tiramisu]

Don't be quite so negative about the adoption option. The biggest issue I have with it is that it takes an obscene amount of time if you want to adopt a white child with nothing wrong with it. Call me a racist if it makes you happy but my wife and I have talked about adopting and a child of a different race would add extra challenges and a handicapped child is more than I can imagine being able to purposely handle.

[Lykalotopus]

I wouldn't be totally opposed to adoption either, depending on the circumstance. A co-worker of my wife adopted a 2.5-3 year old girl from, of all places, Khazikstan (insert Borat joke here), personally, I find it a very noble thing to do when your own options are exhausted, not only do you get the joy of a child in your life, you're taking an underprivledged child from a desolate place & bringing them to the best country in the world.

Back to your issue though, that show I watched, the man was shooting total blanks, zero in the cup, the biopsy did however find live sperm within the testes, not sure how that would go over here.

[physique]

I wouldn't be totally opposed to adoption either, depending on the circumstance. A co-worker of my wife adopted a 2.5-3 year old girl from, of all places, Khazikstan (insert Borat joke here), personally, I find it a very noble thing to do when your own options are exhausted, not only do you get the joy of a child in your life, you're taking an underprivledged child from a desolate place & bringing them to the best country in the world.

Back to your issue though, that show I watched, the man was shooting total blanks, zero in the cup, the biopsy did however find live sperm within the testes, not sure how that would go over here.

do u recall what the show is called?

dont get me wrong guys/girls. adoption might be a choice, but i know how bad my gf wants to actually carry a child too. if she wants to end things i understand, i wont stand in her way for her to find the joy she wnats too. it may sound low on her part (if she actually choosed that way) but i totally understand.

[tiramisu]

You are definitely being too hard on yourself. Happy up.

[guest]

if my wife conceived while i was 'on', i would be having a DNA test done. that's just me.

[Lykalotopus]

do u recall what the show is called?

dont get me wrong guys/girls. adoption might be a choice, but i know how bad my gf wants to actually carry a child too. if she wants to end things i understand, i wont stand in her way for her to find the joy she wnats too. it may sound low on her part (if she actually choosed that way) but i totally understand.

I'm 99.9% sure it was on 'A Baby Story' on TLC & after some googling, it was Dr Sherman Silber.

http://www.infertile.com/

And the procedure was: http://www.infertile.com/infertility-treatments/sperm-aspiration.htm

[physique]

I'm 99.9% sure it was on 'A Baby Story' on TLC & after some googling, it was Dr Sherman Silber.

http://www.infertile.com/

And the procedure was: http://www.infertile.com/infertility-treatments/sperm-aspiration.htm

thanks!!

[Cartwright Cartwright]

Good luck physique I hope everything works out for you and your girlfriend

[big_luse]

If its meant to be its meant to be bro ... dont stress about the things your cant change. Ps. Have the docotors tried HCG/HMG therapy? Basically, theyll get you on HCG 3x per week and then they add in HMG a few times a week - this protocol is very succesful (significantly moreso with people suffering from secondary gonad issues - but neverless, I think its worth considering/discussing with your doc).

[physique]

If its meant to be its meant to be bro ... dont stress about the things your cant change. Ps. Have the docotors tried HCG/HMG therapy? Basically, theyll get you on HCG 3x per week and then they add in HMG a few times a week - this protocol is very succesful (significantly moreso with people suffering from secondary gonad issues - but neverless, I think its worth considering/discussing with your doc).

okay update.

so i have the test level of a 10yr old girl. still waiting for a copy of the original test so i know exact numbers.
doctor prescribed androgel for the next 2months. i tried to convince him for an in jectable but no avail this time around. his theory is i will have better overall levels of test in my body. where as injects will spike your levels 3-4 days, then drop. i will do his gel until we see the next baby specilist june in victoria.
but no way will i use this stuff for HRT. shit cost me a arm and a leg. over 1k for 2months of this stuff. way cheaper to get stuff from a lcoal friend. haha.

but i will run the course as the gf isnt too keen on me using something doctor didnt prescribe.

thats about it, just started rubbing thios crap on today. i will fill ya in in a couple week to how i feel. i hope it helps me feel better for starters and help me loose some blub, as i am having to kill myself with cardio too loose any weight at all.

[Rrrrolla]

This makes no sence bro. You need hcg and clomid or nolva, not more test! If you are trying to get your balls working again, you should not be taking something that will shut you down further. Have you given up on getting your sperm count up? I must have missed something. An endo would know better than this.

[gqgq]

great post. i assume most of you peeps don't believe in god or miracles? 1st thing that comes to my mind is prayer. my 3 cents

[physique]

This makes no sence bro. You need hcg and clomid or nolva, not more test! If you are trying to get your balls working again, you should not be taking something that will shut you down further. Have you given up on getting your sperm count up? I must have missed something. An endo would know better than this.

i tried to tell him test makes sense for my non existant test levels and my overall well being that is in the tank.androgel would be good for this. but i thought hcg was the way to start your testies again?
but this is the approach he wnated to take so what can i do?

i am gonna call him today and see what his reasoning again was not to use hcg and clomid.

[IronMan]

Find Praetorians thread that has the actual study for HCG and Clomid therapy, print it off and take it to your doctor. Hopefully something good happens from this buddy!

[btufts]

Yeah Phys, clomid will probably help with the sperm count for sure... I've heard many stories of friends taking clomid after a cycle and getting their woman preggo. As for me, I do want to take bodybuilding further as i get older and i hope i never run into these problems with children as i do want kids in the future... and i'm only 18 ha

[evoke]

A sperm test is what you need to do.

I asked my doctor, he said 'no' and he's impossible to convince.
Sperm tests are not that easy to get. :(

Anyway, good luck with recovery. Hope it works out.

[physique]

I asked my doctor, he said 'no' and he's impossible to convince.
Sperm tests are not that easy to get. :(

Anyway, good luck with recovery. Hope it works out.

just get your gf or any girl to go with u. and say u are having trouble getting her pregnant. he will ask how long have u been trying. say 1 year and bingo he will order up the test

[Solo59]

great post. i assume most of you peeps don't believe in god or miracles? 1st thing that comes to my mind is prayer. my 3 cents

Not worth 1¢.

Solo

[Dozer1980]

Hope it works out Physique i was thinking of this too i have a 8 yr old as it is but the new gf night want to have kids one day and being almost 30 time is running short, think ill get some hcg this cycle for pct with my clomid see if the boys come back faster.

[physique]

well gang. off to a dr. hudson tomorrow at the victoria fertility clinic. this is the last step for me. if there is still no sperm, we are hooped. if by chance there is even a little.
i get to have a needle rammed into my nuts and have sperm extracted so they can grow it and put it in my gf.

damn that sounds fun doesnt it

[slick rick]

All the best tomorrow phys... think positive dude.

[physique]

update

well it didnt go well. we are left with 2 options. 1 is a sperm donor the other is adoption.
cant say i am overly happy. and i have some serious thinking to do, as i am not entirely sure how i feel about each topic.

it will take some time to decide what to do. its something i wont rush into either, which may or may not spell the end to this relationship.
time will tell


on a side note, even this doctor couldnt be sure my problem was from steroids. he said it too, i could of had this condition from the get-go. we just will never know.

[O-Train]

Really sorry to hear that Physique. I know it's easier said than done but try not to focus on the why.

I think if it were me I'd feel weirder about a sperm donor vs. adoption. When it comes to adoption can you choose the child that you adopt? I would just be worried about adopting a child with FASD or some other serious problem. Now you got me thinking about it. Not an easy decision at all.


update

well it didnt go well. we are left with 2 options. 1 is a sperm donor the other is adoption.
cant say i am overly happy. and i have some serious thinking to do, as i am not entirely sure how i feel about each topic.

it will take some time to decide what to do. its something i wont rush into either, which may or may not spell the end to this relationship.
time will tell


on a side note, even this doctor couldnt be sure my problem was from steroids. he said it too, i could of had this condition from the get-go. we just will never know.

[evoke]

Hope it works out for you. You shouldn't end the relationship so easy. :(

[zziggzzigg]

hope things work out for you

reading this, I can't help thinking that maybe just giving it some time and not stressing about it might be an idea, I'm not really a fan of doctors and their solutions, I think things in our bodies are always changing and having a doctor doing invasive things and intervening seems like it often makes the problems worse (generally speaking)

good luck bro

[Flav]

I just finished reading every post in this thread...
I really hope things work out for you Phys... be it a miracle or science.

Not gona lie, this thread has me a bit concerned/thinking now.... Im 26, have done a 10week cycle each year for the past 4 years.... most of the time it was prop/tren/winny. I actually just finished a cycle and am taking Clomid/Nolva at the moment...

Just wanted to let you know that because of you, Im going to get the test done. Thank you for the thread and best of luck.