test question

[yAr]

would it be more beneficial to run a test e cycle at 250 mg/ml, or would a sust 250 mg/ml be more beneficial because of the different kinds of test. If so why??? just curious thanks

[waderow]

test is test

[yAr]

so really wouldnt make a difference at all?

[waderow]

dosage timing on esters is the only diff.

[bigtavi8]

Why bother with Sust its just big because of the name. All it is all esters of test blended. IMHO its shit compared to test E. This is why. Blood levels all up and down with sust becuase of the diff esters=sides. So why not wait patiently and run test e and have more stable blood levels. Think about it. Its not like the other esters will change anything like leaness, mass gains etc. Its all test. Its just an inconsistent release with sust. IMHO sust is outdated. TEST E for president..hahah...

[Memo]

Sust eod will have stable blood level

[monkey]

would it be more beneficial to run a test e cycle at 250 mg/ml, or would a sust 250 mg/ml be more beneficial because of the different kinds of test. If so why??? just curious thanks

Why only 250? I personally wouldn;t run below 500 unless cruising tapering etc.. if this is your first one, make the best out of it.
500 is not going to give you huge sides but significantly better gains.. you;ll shut down eventually with both dosages

[monkey]

Sust should start going faster then the test e and should be injected EOD... but as other said, test is test

[buildinthaskinnys]

250 mgs a week or every 5 days is plenty for a first time user, this gives you close to 8 times your natural testosterone production. You can always take more later, your first cycle is rarely your last hehe.

[yAr]

hey thanks for the posts guys,, got ****ing thrown in the tank for three days, for a bullshit warrant haha... so from what ive got here, if running sust it would be best eod, and basically test e would be just as good, or better... it might take a little longer to kick in but there would be less sides... ive done a few cycles befor but ive never educated myself... just basically jamed it in.stupid, i know but hey im trying to learn befor i go ahead and do something like that again. im thinking my next cycle is gunna be test e, or c at 500mgs for 18 weeks, withj dbol weeks 5 - 9, what do you guys think? that to long, its a low dose,, and as for pct im gunna run nolvadex starting at week 20, but how long do i run it for ???? and is HCG really necessary? wow lots of questions haha done burn me lol

[Memo]

Can you try to use proper punctuation, I want to help you but English is not my first language.. your paragraph is hard to read.

[yAr]

K im 23, 5 11, 195 ive done a few test cycles in the past... been working out for 6 years or so, on and off...im trying tro plan out my next cycle i was thinking a low amount of test for a longer period of time this is what im thinking

week 1 - 18 test E 500mg
week 5 - 9 dbol 2 times a day
week 20 nolvadex 40
week 21 - 24 nolvadex 20

im still confused about pct help would be nice

[Memo]

Introduction:
This thread is just going over the basics of Post Cycle Treatment in a little more detail than typical.

To start off there are many PCT drugs that people use, SERMs being the most common, AIs being second to SERMs, and hCG a fertility hormone. I am not going to go to techincal, because the fact of the matter is if you need this guide to do a PCT you most likely will not be able to understand the terms or mechanisms needed to explain.


Why an AI PCT does not work:
Lets first think, and Aromatization Inhibitor stops the Aromatization enzyme from converting Testosterone into Estrogen, however do to the fact that your testosterone production is shut down, you will not reach the level of Testosterone needed to stimulate the function of these enzymes until further into a recovery.

Why a SERM PCT does not work:
We all should know that the reason we use a SERM for post cycle treatment is based on clinical studies that prove that as triphenylethylene compounds they stimulate the pituitary gland to increase the output of LH, which by a secondary function can increase the amount of testosterone produced by the testes. However even with increased LH production, your testicular desensitization has already occured and the levels of LH needed to stimulate testosterone high enough cannot be reached, and thus we would need another substance that worked through the exsact same mechanism to far surpass LH levels, this substance is hCG.

Why hCG PCT does not work:
I know I know, how can I say this, I just said that with hCG the exogenous stimulation is needed, however even though using hCG will kick start testosterone production and increase mass size of testicles, your body can still go through a relapse after discontinuation of hCG because the continuous pumping of hCG is what is maintaining the increase in testosterone, however you have not dealt with the problem that your natural LH production is suppress, and thus once hCG is discontinued nothing is taking its place.

In conclusion:
To fully recover from a shutdown period no matter how hard (simple testosterone cycle to the harshest of Trenbolone and Nandrolone suppressions) you are shut down, all three of these products are optimal. Now you have a slection on the SERMs and AIs...

Choosing your SERM:
Usually the choice is between Nolvadex and Clomid, Torem is arising but do the the lack of clinical studies I am inclined to leave it out and only focus on Nolvadex and Clomid, however Torem does seems to be a good choice and with more research into it, it may take the place of Clomid and Nolvadex or reach their status.

Well both of the SERMs work in the same way, the work by altering the binding capacity of the estrogen receptor leading to the decrease of estrogen effects on the tissues where these receptors reside. Many people believe that Nolvadex is better at altering these receptors but this is not true at all, Nolvadex and Clomid both alter the same receptors in the exsact same way. Likewise many people believe that Clomid is the only one that restores testosterone productions or atleast does a better job. However this is not true at all, actually the opposite is true Nolvadex is better at restoring testosterone production. But don't take my word for it, I will explain it for you, both of these compounds oppose the negative feedback from estrogen on the hypothalamus and stimulate the heightened release of GnRH, which stimulates LH output in the pituitary, as a result LH stimulates the testes to produce more testosterone, however Clomid desensitizes the pituitary to GnRH, while Nolvadex actually increases sensitivity and thus increases the amount of LH significantly more than clomid. Clomid also can increase SHBG which would lead to less free testosterone in the body.
SERM of choice: Nolvadex

Choosing your AI:
Well the third generation AIs are Letro, Arimidex, and Aromasin. However they are not all equally different, in fact Letro and Adex are very similiar they are both Type II AIs and Aromasin is a Type I. Now to explain the difference, Type I AIs attach themselves to the Aromatization enzyme deactivating them rendering them destroyed, so aromatization is disabled until further production of the aromatization enzyme which can be well after the AI has cleared the system, Type II AIs it competively binds to the Aromatization Enzyme, however nothing actually happens to the enzyme it is just temporarily disabled, so once the AI clears the system the enzyme is still effective.

So, which is better Type I or Type II, well they both serve the same function however Aromasin or Type I inhibitors may serve our purpose better because once the discontinuation of the substance occurs, the build up of the enzymes will take time thus removing the rebound of aromatization effect that Type II inhibitors cause.

That however cannot be the icing on the cake, because that rebound effect is speculation and the fact that Aromasin will not cause it has never been proven. So we have to look at other issues since they both will suppress estrogen, in many clinical studies Aromasin has been shown not only to increase the amount of testosterone through inhibiting it from aromatization, but also increases the natural output, by mechanisms not yet determined fully, also it has claim to increasing natural IGF levels, which is a very anabolic peptide. We must also look at which is better for you, well Aromasin has virtually no effect on lipids and cholesterol, unlike adex and letro which effect them.
AI of choice: Aromasin


Steroid Cycle;
Week 1-10 Compound 1
Week 1-8 Compound 2
Week 1-4 Compound 3

How to recover:

hCG
Week 3-12 500IU/e3d
* hCG should be administed every 3 days because the natural release of LH is in pulses it has heavy times and light times and this is roughly every 3 days, so in an act to try and simulate the natural function you should inject e3d. However 500IU is much higher than your natural LH amount but, you have an outside source lowering the LH very frequently so you must combat it with a higher amount. Why we did not taper, well in my mind the only reasoning for starting with a high dose is to increase blood levels, however as I just said LH works in pulses and thus flucation of amounts is good.

Nolvadex
Week 12 40mg/ed
Week 13-17 20mg/ed
*Pretty simple here, however we extended the duration from the typical 4 weeks and lowered the length of time at 40mg, clinical studies have shown no difference between 40mg and 20mg a day, so there is no reason to continue at this dose, however we started with it to peak blood levels.

Aromasin
Week 15-17 25mg/ed
*The reason we will use this at the end of the cycle is because, using it at the beginning is pointless because there is not enough testosterone to fight the conversion, also the reason we did not use this between weeks 10-12 like I have seen some people do is because this could keep your testosterone levels higher than normal and thus your body will not sense the fact that it needs to produce more as well as it should even with the stimulation of the LH mechanism.

In conclusion utilizing all three of these substances will lead to a full recovery, hCG to stimulate the LH mechanism to increase testosterone production and limit shutdown, Nolvadex to increase the amount of LH to continue the mechanism after the end of hCG, Aromasin, to help fight off the catabolic effects of estrogen by destroying the enzymes that cause aromatization, and also to further increase natural testosterone production and increase IGF levels, to continue to stay anabolic.


(Note: Take this how you will, some facts may be off somewhat, somethings you might not agree on however, this protocol does have merit and does have alot of support to back it up)

[yAr]

eh thanks man

[PdH]

If you're going to be on 500 test for that long you should use HCG. Start it right after your cycle is finished for two weeks, 500 every third day. When your 2 week HCG therapy is done use the Nolva for 4 weeks at the following dosages 40/20/20/10

[#8]

you might wanna take care of your legal troubles before venturing into anabolic territory.

just a thought.

[Memo]

you might wanna take care of your legal troubles before venturing into anabolic territory.

just a thought.

x2

[yAr]

haha o its done with now... just had to pay the government a nice check... thanks for the advice guys

so use hcg for 2 weeks after cycle,e3d, then nolva as pdh put 40/20/20/10.... thanks guys

[theboss]

Sust eod will have stable blood level

Sust EOD FTW!

[yAr]

sorry ftw???

[Victor85]

Go with test E. Sustanon has the "selling point" of four different tests stacked together, which many people believe has more bang for your buck. Test is test, and if you are gonna be injecting the drugs every week, blood levels will build up to the same levels with either type of testosterone.

[Memo]

is you shoot sust once a week your blood level will be ****ed

[bruno]

I Personally would not recommend Sust.I used it for my second cycle and got pretty bad sides.I used Test Prop for my third cycle at the same dosage,and the sides were not nearly as bad.Just my personal experience.
Good luck with your cycle bro