Spin classes...good idea?

[beretta96]

I've been stuck at the same bf% for some time now and although I do cheat on occasion, my diet is pretty good. After each workout, I've been doing 20 minutes on the stairmaster. It claims I've burnt 300 calories and 100 floors each session.

A lady instructor today mentioned I should try a spinning class. It's a 800 calorie burn for 45 minutes. Have you guys tried a spinning class anywhere? It does look intense. I'm sure I can get through it but will this lower my bf or will it kill more muscle mass.

I was thinking if I try it, I'd drink some protein before and after.

What's your thoughts?

[waderow]

I've been stuck at the same bf% for some time now and although I do cheat on occasion, my diet is pretty good. After each workout, I've been doing 20 minutes on the stairmaster. It claims I've burnt 300 calories and 100 floors each session.

A lady instructor today mentioned I should try a spinning class. It's a 800 calorie burn for 45 minutes. Have you guys tried a spinning class anywhere? It does look intense. I'm sure I can get through it but will this lower my bf or will it kill more muscle mass.

I was thinking if I try it, I'd drink some protein before and after.

What's your thoughts?

say goodbye to your muscle

[fitnurss]

I did spin for the whole contest prep...felt good but I think I might have lost some muscle. I'm assuming you go to Goodlife - have you tried/would consider trying the Combat classes? It really helped cut up my delts and the calorie burn is only slightly less than spin.

[tiramisu]

It's not so easy to lose muscle.
and my legs have never been bigger than when I was riding 50km per day.

[#8]

i think people exaggerate the amount of muscle lost during high intensity cardio. if you have eaten enough protein in the days prior to your cardio you should be fine. take a 10-15g serving of BCAA and a serving of a greens+ (or any interchangeable greens supplement) right before your workout or cardio session as well, and this will help minimize soreness and reduce catabolism.

Keep in mind its not what you eat immediately pre and post workout that dictates how your body will respond to each training session (cardio or weights). It has everything to do with the 2-3 days before and 2-3 days after a workout that dictate gains or losses. eat consistently high amounts of protein with moderate fats and your muscle loss should be minimal.

anavar helps greatly also

:)

[fitnurss]

Yeah, this is true. I was dieting pretty intensely, so it's definitely different in my case.

[tiramisu]

The bigges legs I have ever seen on a man were on a flying kilo track bike specialist who was about 6 months out from competing at the PanAm games. His thighs were bigger than his chest. It's kind of hard to guess in inches but probably somewhere in the mid 40's. Truly a cartoonish physique.

[Ritch]

Sure his legs may have been big (some bikers do but most are just walking sticks...) but how was the rest of him? I doubt he had big arms and a big thick wide back... I doubt it bro! So it`s not really a fair comparision.

[ironwill]

The bigges legs I have ever seen on a man were on a flying kilo track bike specialist who was about 6 months out from competing at the PanAm games. His thighs were bigger than his chest. It's kind of hard to guess in inches but probably somewhere in the mid 40's. Truly a cartoonish physique.

UMMMM, 30 inch legs are huge, 40.......i honestly would have to see it to believe it........cant see it personally....no disrespect....

[cog]

I have seen a track cyclist who had quads like an advanced bb'er.In the 30's.Generally the more miles the smaller they get.

[cog]

The bigges legs I have ever seen on a man were on a flying kilo track bike specialist who was about 6 months out from competing at the PanAm games. His thighs were bigger than his chest. It's kind of hard to guess in inches but probably somewhere in the mid 40's. Truly a cartoonish physique.

Do you know his name?Or when he competed?

[tiramisu]

UMMMM, 30 inch legs are huge, 40.......i honestly would have to see it to believe it........cant see it personally....no disrespect....

My quads are 26 and at the time were about 30. These things were humungous. The meat just hung off his legs. I understand not believing without seeing. It had to be seen.
What I can remember: kilo track specialist, going to pan am games, trained at the winnipeg veledrome.
I was about 17 so that would make it about 1984.
Likely 1983 as the Pan Am games were in 83 and 87.

I'll see what I can dig up.

[JifeLacket]

Which pan am games tiramisu? what nationality was the rider?

This is my man Robert Forstemann.. just a wee German lad

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/007JgSdfwx2MZ/340x.jpg

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0bzebeP0zufi7/610x.jpg

The man on the left here has the kilometer TT world record, Chris' thighs (in the middle) are almost 30" at around 7% body fat and he is 6'1.. his legs are on the small side vs others although he is the fastest :)

http://photos.upi.com/topics-/67c8bf20d843361420b0d35acd868c93/C-1.jpg

I have done some rides with U23 pro road riders and shit i burnt 4500cal in under 3hr lol.. didnt lose any muscle its just a bitch eating that all back. You should really do sprints on the bike, PM me and i can give you some simple workouts that will rape you.

[tiramisu]

Apparently 1983 was the first year that the PanAm games had decent drug testing.

It was Curtis Harnett from thunder bay and they were only 36" :)

Olympics
1984 Los Angeles USA 1000 Meter Time Trial SILVER MEDAL
1988 Seoul KOR Match Sprint 10TH PLACE
1992 Barcelona ESP Match Sprint BRONZE MEDAL
1996 Atlanta USA Match Sprint BRONZE MEDAL

COMMONWEALTH GAMES
1986 Edinburgh SCO Match Sprint 5TH PLACE
1990 Auckland NZL Match Sprint SILVER
1994 Victoria CAN Match Sprint SILVER

PAN AMERICAN GAMES
1983 Caracas VEN 1000 Meter Time Trial 4th PLACE
1987 Indianapolis USA 1000 Meter Time Trial GOLD
1987 Indianapolis USA Match Sprint BRONZE

OTHER INTERNATIONAL HIGHLIGHTS
1996
World Cup, Athens GRE Match Sprint GOLD
World Cup, Milan ITA Match Sprint GOLD
1995
World Championships, Bogotá COL Match Sprint SILVER
World Cup, Hyères FRA Match Sprint GOLD
1994
World Championships, Palermo ITA Match Sprint 6th PLACE
World Championships, Palermo ITA Keirin 7th PLACE
World Cup, Colorado Springs USA Match Sprint SILVER
World Cup, Colorado Springs USA Keirin SILVER
1993
World Championships, Hamar NOR Keirin 5th PLACE
1992
World Cup, Paris FRA Match Sprint SILVER
Canadian Olympic Trials Match Sprint GOLD
1991
World Championships, Stuttgart GER Match Sprint 4th PLACE
1990
World Championships, Maebashi JPN Match Sprint SILVER
Goodwill Games, Seattle USA Match Sprint GOLD
World Cup, Aarhus DEN Match Sprint GOLD
World Cup, Copenhagen DEN Match Sprint GOLD

OTHER
1995: Set World Record at Bogotá COL 200 meter 9.865 seconds
31 Canadian National Championships

Honours
1985 Canadian Award of Excellence
1992 125th Canadian Anniversary Award
1996 Bruce Kidd Award; Canadian Sport Awards
1998 Named Honourary Member of the Canadian Men's Alpine Team
2002 Salute to the City Award [Toronto]
2003 Inducted into the Northwestern Ontario Sports Hall of Fame
2005 Inducted into the Canadian Sports Hall of Fame
2006 Inducted into the Canadian Olympic Hall of Fame

[JifeLacket]

Aye 36" they were :) There are some wild stories about the weight he was pushing back then i was training with his trainer in LA... his 200m world record stood for 11 years, just broken in 2006! (ill break it again soon though)

Ill get some comparison pictures from this world cup in beijing (no homo)

Here i am when i was 16 (middle)... just killin it at nationals 26.5" thighs back then just started lifting.

http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k142/leparskas/2k7podium.jpg

[JifeLacket]

Just to prove endurance doesn't cause muscle loss (if diet is on par)

Fellow team mate Zach (enduro) his thighs are probably bigger then mine and im a sprinter... genetics folks

(front)

http://www.kbsprocycling.com/images/news/main/bell-chase-worlds.jpg

[beretta96]

Judging by the Robert Forstemann pic, it looks as though spinning classes won't kill off muscle if diet is on par. I think I'll give it a try. Lifejacket, I sent you a PM.

[waderow]

well.....

999 out of 1000 body builders would agree that spin class is counter productive to body building.


Unless youre going for the brad pitt look of course...but thats not body building

[Sean Summers]

Listen to waderow. Don't waste your time.
SS

[tiramisu]

... but 999 out of 1000 body builders could be wrong. I'm pretty sure that the sprinters are doing plenty of squats with serious weight.

[waderow]

... but 999 out of 1000 body builders could be wrong. I'm pretty sure that the sprinters are doing plenty of squats with serious weight.

lol

Just listen to Sean Summers

[tiramisu]

Seriously, while your standard spin class may be cardio oriented. Track Bike sprinting makes 20 rep squaters look like pussies. IF you can keep your calories up it will grow your thighs bigger by a significant degree. This isn't cardio, it is almost pure strength if you go for the singles time trials or flying kilo.

... but 999 out of 1000 body builders have no clue whatsoever about track cycling or the monsters that ride them so they equate them with greg lemond. My legs were 4" bigger @ 30" than they are today after 2 years of squating @ 26" with only weekend track rides.

Another interesting thing about this is that there is no eccentric in the movement.

[#8]

i dont understand why body building mentality has to be so anti fitness. is body building really just all about looking healthy, rather than actually being healthy.

why cant a body builder have an excellent level of cardio vascular conditioning as long as his diet justifies his calorie expenditure?

the first picture proves that you can be stupid big and still be unbelieveably healthy and fit. eat properly and you can do both.

[Thorgrim]

Didn't Tom Platz go for long bike rides after working legs?

[Ritch]

i dont understand why body building mentality has to be so anti fitness. is body building really just all about looking healthy, rather than actually being healthy.

why cant a body builder have an excellent level of cardio vascular conditioning as long as his diet justifies his calorie expenditure?

the first picture proves that you can be stupid big and still be unbelieveably healthy and fit. eat properly and you can do both.

The pic with those 3 stooges dosen`t impress me one bit. So they have one body part that looks good. The rest sucks. So we`re supposed to emulate their training because of this?

Most of us care more about how we looks than being fit. Besides the bodybuilder who trains 4-5 times a week and does cardio is fit! There is no need to take it further. There is also a limit to how much fintess stuff you can do.

It would be like asking those guys in the pic to do a 400lbs bench press. I`m almost positive with the kind of training they do, it just wouldn`t be possibe to make that happen. So why is it expected of a bodybuilder to pull off the endurance stuff they do.

You have to pick your battles my friend.

[Ritch]

Didn't Tom Platz go for long bike rides after working legs?

All the power to him if he did. He`s also a freak in the leg department, so comparing what worked for him hoping it can be applied with us is a waste of time. Insiring? For sure!

[tiramisu]

... Yes other sports disciplines have nothing whatsoever to offer and you should close your eyes to elite athletes because bodybuilding has been scientifically studied and published in Arnold's bodybuilding encyclopedia.

I also know plenty of speed skaters with better quads than 90% of the board here.
But don't ever consider cross training, it can't possibly work. You'll shrivel up, your upper body will dissolve if you take on a leg strength sport.

[Ritch]

... Yes other sports disciplines have nothing whatsoever to offer and you should close your eyes to elite athletes because bodybuilding has been scientifically studied and published in Arnold's bodybuilding encyclopedia.

I also know plenty of speed skaters with better quads than 90% of the board here.
But don't ever consider cross training, it can't possibly work. You'll shrivel up, your upper body will dissolve if you take on a leg strength sport.

Glad we could clear things up!

[Thorgrim]

I want to get back into mountain biking one of these days. If your not into racing and just like to ride trails for fun I think it could go well with bodybuilding/powerlifting. Just keep the rides to 45-60 minutes and chug a whole bunch of bcaa's and some carbs during the ride and you would be good. A lot of the trail riding is like interval training. You push hard going up hill and then take it easy on the way down. The extra strength from the weight training would probably be nice on some of those up hill grinds.

[cog]

Tom Platz's bike rides were leisurely 45 min rides.Long rides(how far?)eventually is counter productive.

[cog]

I want to get back into mountain biking one of these days. If your not into racing and just like to ride trails for fun I think it could go well with bodybuilding/powerlifting. Just keep the rides to 45-60 minutes and chug a whole bunch of bcaa's and some carbs during the ride and you would be good. A lot of the trail riding is like interval training. You push hard going up hill and then take it easy on the way down. The extra strength from the weight training would probably be nice on some of those up hill grinds.

I used to do plenty of hard core mtn biking,hard 5-7 hr rides with plenty of elevation gain.You will lose some strength in overall squat power.I lost about 20%.

[#8]

im 225 lbs and i have a resting heartrate of 46bpm. i find strength / endurance FAR more impressive than simply strength or "good looks" alone even if the smaller guy can lift less. if you bodybuild just to pose like a fairy on the beach then you're simply a huge torch to begin with. (Not targeting anyone specifically, just in general)

Lifting is fun but only if you're not a wheezing mess of a slob who spends 8 months overweight and cuts down to look "good" for 2 months of the year. IMO lol

[cog]

im 225 lbs and i have a resting heartrate of 46bpm. i find strength / endurance FAR more impressive than simply strength or "good looks" alone even if the smaller guy can lift less. if you bodybuild just to pose like a fairy on the beach then you're simply a huge torch to begin with. (Not targeting anyone specifically, just in general)

Lifting is fun but only if you're not a wheezing mess of a slob who spends 8 months overweight and cuts down to look "good" for 2 months of the year. IMO lol

I would agree with you.But as Ritch says you have to pick your battles.You can only devote so much energy...these track guys and speed skaters devote most of their energy to the lower body.Expect to make compromises in your upper body if you follow their path too closely.I do happen to believe that a certain amount of spinning is good for the legs.

[waderow]

im 225 lbs and i have a resting heartrate of 46bpm. i find strength / endurance FAR more impressive than simply strength or "good looks" alone even if the smaller guy can lift less. if you bodybuild just to pose like a fairy on the beach then you're simply a huge torch to begin with. (Not targeting anyone specifically, just in general)

Lifting is fun but only if you're not a wheezing mess of a slob who spends 8 months overweight and cuts down to look "good" for 2 months of the year. IMO lol

a balance is required and I too value cardio.

I will take pic 1 (frank mcgrath) over pic 2 (chris hoy world champ sprint cycler) ANY DAY

[JifeLacket]

lol, big upper body is counter productive for track sprinting, if they wanted to BB they could, if they can grow their legs that big dont you think they could do the same for their upper body? we are not talking about LONG bike rides, we are talking SPRINTS. 50-500m efforts.(5-30sec efforts) Big different from the twigs that ride in the tour de france. I bet i put in less then 30km doing sprints for 3hr 2x a day and 85% is the progressive warm up lol.

When did anyone say riding a bike would make you like a bber.. in this context we are talking about using it as TOOL to aid FAT LOSS.

Cycling is way better then running, if you do it right.

Some of these comments are HILARIIIIIIOUS i cant believe the arrogance.

sure wade post a picture of chris when he was 18 LOL. he is still bigger then most 18 year old BBers i have ever seen not on juice!

[waderow]

lol, big upper body is counter productive for track sprinting, if they wanted to BB they could, if they can grow their legs that big dont you think they could do the same for their upper body? we are not talking about LONG bike rides, we are talking SPRINTS. 50-500m efforts.(5-30sec efforts) Big different from the twigs that ride in the tour de france. I bet i put in less then 30km doing sprints for 3hr 2x a day and 85% is the progressive warm up lol.

When did anyone say riding a bike would make you like a bber.. in this context we are talking about using it as TOOL to aid FAT LOSS.

Cycling is way better then running, if you do it right.

Some of these comments are HILARIIIIIIOUS i cant believe the arrogance.

sure wade post a picture of chris when he was 18 LOL. he is still bigger then most 18 year old BBers i have ever seen not on juice!

no, I dont think they could...and we are talking spin class...not HIT. Spin is 30-60 min if high intensity cardio. A 30 second max sprint cycle is much different and we are off track

[Ritch]

^^^ Yes sir! Mc Grath all the way... I wonder how fast his 2km run is? Who gives a ****, the guy is totally impressive and would rather look like that and not be able to do agility drills and all the other stuff you "fitness boys" claim makes you superior. You didn`t say that, but it`s the message I`m getting.

The other thing is time... Hitting the gym 4-5 times a week doing cardio is a full ****ing plate already. That with the eating and sleeping. How the hell do you make time for all that stuff? See why I`m guessing most don`t care about this? It just takes too much time to be good at both and it`s doubtfull you will convince anybody it will make them a better bodybuilder and it just looks boring anyways...

End of story.

[Ritch]

lol, big upper body is counter productive for track sprinting, if they wanted to BB they could, if they can grow their legs that big dont you think they could do the same for their upper body? we are not talking about LONG bike rides, we are talking SPRINTS. 50-500m efforts.(5-30sec efforts) Big different from the twigs that ride in the tour de france. I bet i put in less then 30km doing sprints for 3hr 2x a day and 85% is the progressive warm up lol.

When did anyone say riding a bike would make you like a bber.. in this context we are talking about using it as TOOL to aid FAT LOSS.

Cycling is way better then running, if you do it right.

Some of these comments are HILARIIIIIIOUS i cant believe the arrogance.

sure wade post a picture of chris when he was 18 LOL. he is still bigger then most 18 year old BBers i have ever seen not on juice!

Terrible post. It`s like saying if I took steroids like pro`s I`d be big like them. The whole "if they wanted to" is horshit. Come up with something better to prove your point.

Bro, they as fast as they are, if they put energy elshwere, they wouldn`t be as fast as they are. That`s why they`re as fast as they are. They make it a priority. That`s why bodybuilders look the way they do. They do little outside of bodybuilding to interfere with the "looking huge process" To be elite in something, something else must be put on the back burner.


End of story.

[waderow]

Terrible post. It`s like saying if I took steroids like pro`s I`d be big like them. The whole "if they wanted to" is horshit. Come up with something better to prove your point.

Bro, they as fast as they are, if they put energy elshwere, they wouldn`t be as fast as they are. That`s why they`re as fast as they are. They make it a priority. That`s why bodybuilders look the way they do. They do little outside of bodybuilding to interfere with the "looking huge process" To be elite in something, something else must be put on the back burner.


End of story.

good post. sums it up

[waderow]

When I cut, I USED to do long distance running. I loved it. Made me feel so good, but I always lost soooo much muscle, that I would be at or near square one after I was trimmed down. It was pissing me off, so I started to learn from big guys how they do it, and voila! It works. It isnt ignorance, it isnt lack of knowledge....it is what works. Low intensity cardio.

[tiramisu]

You can't fill a cup that's already full.

[beretta96]

Can someone explain how high intensity cardio burns muscle and low intensity cardio burns fat? I could very well be way off, but If a guy needs 250 grams of protein per day, how is his muscle going to be burnt away by high intensity cardio? Doesn't protein protect muscle catabolism? I could understand if an individual doesn't eat adequately and does the high intensity stuff then sure his muscle will dissapear first, but if protein intake is high where is the loss coming from?

[#8]

frank mcgrath looks cool for sure. but as i said before id rather be smaller, still strong and big compared to 99% of the world, and have an elite functioning cardio capacity.

thats just my opinion.

[O-Train]

NO.

[JifeLacket]

Terrible post. It`s like saying if I took steroids like pro`s I`d be big like them. The whole "if they wanted to" is horshit. Come up with something better to prove your point.

Bro, they as fast as they are, if they put energy elshwere, they wouldn`t be as fast as they are. That`s why they`re as fast as they are. They make it a priority. That`s why bodybuilders look the way they do. They do little outside of bodybuilding to interfere with the "looking huge process" To be elite in something, something else must be put on the back burner.


End of story.

I am not saying that, however logically if a sprinter can grow his legs to 36" WHILE SPRINTING, i do not see why he could not grow his upper body to be like a body builder WHILE NOT SPRINTING** i should have added that.

The original poster asked about spin classes, yes they are great, but HIT on the bike is even better. I am saying that HIT/spin classes are a useful tool for body builders to cut, and i think even more beneficial then running. Less impact etc. I just posted those pictures because people are worried about losing so much muscle doing long cardio and those back my point that you can use HIT style to get ripped while staying muscular. This is why i suggested sprints on the stationary bike.

Never did i say train 6 hours a day just to get cut.. lol, a sprint session will take less time then a spin class and be more effective... which again is why i suggested it.

I don't see how you could disagree with that mate..

[cog]

Can someone explain how high intensity cardio burns muscle and low intensity cardio burns fat? I could very well be way off, but If a guy needs 250 grams of protein per day, how is his muscle going to be burnt away by high intensity cardio? Doesn't protein protect muscle catabolism? I could understand if an individual doesn't eat adequately and does the high intensity stuff then sure his muscle will dissapear first, but if protein intake is high where is the loss coming from?

Think of the energy you can obtain from burning fat as just a dribble.That's why they recommend a heart rate of 120 bpm,iirc.

[tiramisu]

Once again there is a myth of bro logic going on.

I have done short intense interval training and I have done long slow walks on the treadmill. Both worked equally well for fat loss. The first one also built strength.

Confusing opinion with facts is pretty common. I think the error is to focus on a very narrow band of available information and ignoring the other 99%.

If we go to the lowest common denominators:
1) progressive strength training is required for increased strength and hypertrophy
2) fat and muscle is lost through a caloric deficit (Fat is preferentially burned over muscle happily).


a) now you can debate the relative merits of periodization and appropriate programming but at the end of the day greater resistance equals greater strength and size.

b) there is no specificity requirement for bodybuilding, no skill requirement, so it really doesn't matter what form the resistance takes, bodybuilding is just for looks.

c) fat can be lost on any range of carb,fat,protein breakdowns simply through ensuring a deficit of calories. - keto, carb cycling, portion control

- most athletes and bodybuilders want to hang on to the hard earned muscle so they tend to max out the protein to keep aminos free and available.

- bodybuilders also like to take hormones because this results in even less muscle loss.

d) increasing physical activity is metabolically supportive of weight loss and to a lesser extent burns some extra calories directly.

This is the important 99%.

The myth of the fat burning heart range has been debated, debunked and reoccurs regularly. I'm doing long slow distance on a keto diet because I don't have the stamina for intervals. When I used a more moderate diet intervals were always my preferred choice (not so damn boring)

If you are exceeding your body's ability to support itself then you will eat into the muscle. But read the sentence again. Riding a bike does not mean you are exceeding your body's ability to support itself NOR does sprinting, NOR high intensity intervals NOR long slow distance.

A track cyclist is training to be a track cyclist. His huge thighs are a byproduct of his training. Not the purpose. If a cyclist's purpose was to use a track bike to build large thighs than they would be bigger and he would likely be a marginally worse competitor. An athlete both trains and practices. Bodybuilders only train.

Does this burn calories and more importantly keep the metabolism fired up? absolutely.

Now there is an added advantage to interval training that long slow distance does not provide - Strength and Hypertrophy, oddly two things that a bodybuilder is very interested in. IF the trainee has not exceeded their exercise capacity (which is a trainable characteristic) and has not exceeded their recovery ability then there is little reason to assume that somehow muscle would magically disappear.

[cog]

Once again there is a myth of bro logic going on.

I have done short intense interval training and I have done long slow walks on the treadmill. Both worked equally well for fat loss. The first one also built strength.

Confusing opinion with facts is pretty common. I think the error is to focus on a very narrow band of available information and ignoring the other 99%.

If we go to the lowest common denominators:
1) progressive strength training is required for increased strength and hypertrophy
2) fat and muscle is lost through a caloric deficit (Fat is preferentially burned over muscle happily).


a) now you can debate the relative merits of periodization and appropriate programming but at the end of the day greater resistance equals greater strength and size.

b) there is no specificity requirement for bodybuilding, no skill requirement, so it really doesn't matter what form the resistance takes, bodybuilding is just for looks.

c) fat can be lost on any range of carb,fat,protein breakdowns simply through ensuring a deficit of calories. - keto, carb cycling, portion control

- most athletes and bodybuilders want to hang on to the hard earned muscle so they tend to max out the protein to keep aminos free and available.

- bodybuilders also like to take hormones because this results in even less muscle loss.

d) increasing physical activity is metabolically supportive of weight loss and to a lesser extent burns some extra calories directly.

This is the important 99%.

The myth of the fat burning heart range has been debated, debunked and reoccurs regularly. I'm doing long slow distance on a keto diet because I don't have the stamina for intervals. When I used a more moderate diet intervals were always my preferred choice (not so damn boring)

If you are exceeding your body's ability to support itself then you will eat into the muscle. But read the sentence again. Riding a bike does not mean you are exceeding your body's ability to support itself NOR does sprinting, NOR high intensity intervals NOR long slow distance.

A track cyclist is training to be a track cyclist. His huge thighs are a byproduct of his training. Not the purpose. If a cyclist's purpose was to use a track bike to build large thighs than they would be bigger and he would likely be a marginally worse competitor. An athlete both trains and practices. Bodybuilders only train.

Does this burn calories and more importantly keep the metabolism fired up? absolutely.

Now there is an added advantage to interval training that long slow distance does not provide - Strength and Hypertrophy, oddly two things that a bodybuilder is very interested in. IF the trainee has not exceeded their exercise capacity (which is a trainable characteristic) and has not exceeded their recovery ability then there is little reason to assume that somehow muscle would magically disappear.

Can you point to the info that says fat is burned "preferentially"?

[Ritch]

I am not saying that, however logically if a sprinter can grow his legs to 36" WHILE SPRINTING, i do not see why he could not grow his upper body to be like a body builder WHILE NOT SPRINTING** i should have added that.

The original poster asked about spin classes, yes they are great, but HIT on the bike is even better. I am saying that HIT/spin classes are a useful tool for body builders to cut, and i think even more beneficial then running. Less impact etc. I just posted those pictures because people are worried about losing so much muscle doing long cardio and those back my point that you can use HIT style to get ripped while staying muscular. This is why i suggested sprints on the stationary bike.

Never did i say train 6 hours a day just to get cut.. lol, a sprint session will take less time then a spin class and be more effective... which again is why i suggested it.

I don't see how you could disagree with that mate..

But still the pics are not guys who are bodybuilders, so it dosen`t prove anything in relation to bodybuilders doing what you`re saying can be done.

As far as the sprint vs spin class debate, I`m no expert on that, as I haven`t really done cardio much. There`s examples of both showing each works. Skip Lacour is an example of a guy who gets shredded using hit cardio. But most bodybuilders tend to do low intensity cardio. Some do a mix of both.

Most likely, the sprinter if not sprinting could develop an impressive upper body as they have work ethics that go way beyond what most people have... So I agree with most of your post, just not applying what the athlestes do just because they have one bodypart that stands out is no reason to say "see this guy looks like that therefore it works..."

Now you can`t possibly disagree with that Mate!

[waderow]

make all the excuses for spin class you want...

PROOF IS IN THE PUDDING

[JifeLacket]

a 280lb bber probably couldnt handle HIT very well anyways haha

i agree Tiramisu, Ritch and Cog you guys have put it well, im definitely not saying its the end all be all.. just an option.. i figured it would pertain to this thread seing as its about spin classes :) at least this discussion got the brain juices flowing a bit haha.

wade, well, you are wade so i dont really give a **** these are not excuses you are just a shit disturber :) love youuuuu

[tiramisu]

Can you point to the info that says fat is burned "preferentially"?

Here is a really neat little study on Over-Feeding followed by a return to normal diet.
http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2009/12/body-fat-setpoint.html

Key points
The article is about how a group of people some overweight and some normal weight were overfed by 50% for six weeks and then allowed to eat as they wished for the next six weeks. All except one followed this pattern: they gained weight, and then lost 2/3 of it by the end of the second six week period.

Here's the interesting part from our viewpoint: They didn't just get fat, about 2/3 of the weight they gained was lean mass. When they went back to eating normally they lost 61% of the fat mass they gained and only 23% of the lean mass they gained. This was without any special training other than what little they might have been doing already.

[agingtechie]

When I cut, I USED to do long distance running. I loved it. Made me feel so good, but I always lost soooo much muscle, that I would be at or near square one after I was trimmed down. It was pissing me off, so I started to learn from big guys how they do it, and voila! It works. It isnt ignorance, it isnt lack of knowledge....it is what works. Low intensity cardio.

How much and how often should a guy do the low intensity cardio?

I'm thinking a brisk walk for 30 minutes? Or 20 minutes jogging? And do this 3 times a week. And then just be patient about the fat loss.

I tried doing the 1000 calorie type of cardio workouts but I saw an almost instant drop in my strength.

[waderow]

How much and how often should a guy do the low intensity cardio?

I'm thinking a brisk walk for 30 minutes? Or 20 minutes jogging? And do this 3 times a week. And then just be patient about the fat loss.

I tried doing the 1000 calorie type of cardio workouts but I saw an almost instant drop in my strength.

if you can a couple times a day, but 5 times a week minimum, brisk walk or slight incline walk on treadmill. Or jog walk jog walk on track or treadmill. Keep HR around 130

[waderow]

a 280lb bber probably couldnt handle HIT very well anyways haha

i agree Tiramisu, Ritch and Cog you guys have put it well, im definitely not saying its the end all be all.. just an option.. i figured it would pertain to this thread seing as its about spin classes :) at least this discussion got the brain juices flowing a bit haha.

wade, well, you are wade so i dont really give a **** these are not excuses you are just a shit disturber :) love youuuuu

go **** yourself you little bitch and peddle your skinny ass in your faggot spin classes and see how big you get... In the mean time I will still warm up with your max

[JifeLacket]

you must have me mistaken i don't do spin classes, and im not skinny, and im not a BBer so i don't care how big i get :)

and i was just playin so chill winston :)

[waderow]

you must have me mistaken i don't do spin classes, and im not skinny, and im not a BBer so i don't care how big i get :)

and i was just playin so chill winston :)

pretty insulting way to play around

[buildinthaskinnys]

Ahh what a crazy thread, and now.........My Take, Extended periods of high intensity cardio can be detrimental to muscle size due to gluconeogenesis, now in periods of exersise whatever form it may be the body will use a prefered energy source, prefered being whatever is available most readily, so H.I.T cardio will deplete glycogen very quickly and will then leave the body to search for the next available energy source, but in this case there isnt anything just hanging around so it makes one , now while fat is a great energy source it cant be converted as quickly as protein, hence gluconeogenesis occurs. Now comparing sprint cyclers to marathon bicyclists is like comparing apples to peanuts, a 1000m sprint takes little more than a minute travelling at the speeds they do, this is why they have big legs, that an the fact that they do very little sprinting when compared to to their total training load, the greatest cyclers spend more time in the weight room than do the intermedietes. And wade was right, low intensity is he way to go to burn fat, this has taken years of trial and error to prove.

[HULK]

a 280lb bber probably couldnt handle HIT very well anyways haha

Agree with Waderow. For BB's, stick with low intensity cardio. 3 to 5 time a week should suffice. One can always decrease the rest period between set. By the way, I’m 280 lbs and you’ll be surprise what a 280 lbs BB can do…

[519Muscle]

I've been stuck at the same bf% for some time now and although I do cheat on occasion, my diet is pretty good. After each workout, I've been doing 20 minutes on the stairmaster. It claims I've burnt 300 calories and 100 floors each session.

A lady instructor today mentioned I should try a spinning class. It's a 800 calorie burn for 45 minutes. Have you guys tried a spinning class anywhere? It does look intense. I'm sure I can get through it but will this lower my bf or will it kill more muscle mass.

I was thinking if I try it, I'd drink some protein before and after.

What's your thoughts?

I don't think that it will be a good idea...It sounds like ur diet is not working for u, u should be able to drop bf from diet alone...So try to reduce ur carbs and fats and see what happens keep us posted.

[Condottieri]

Which pan am games tiramisu? what nationality was the rider?

This is my man Robert Forstemann.. just a wee German lad

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/007JgSdfwx2MZ/340x.jpg

.

Check out this clip of Forstemann.

http://www.youtube.com/v/HDMmPNuO0Bo&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param

[warlock]

If you take 2 of the classes that I teach a week you would not be able to squat your body weight.

A good spinning instructor when teaching an interval class will brutalize your CNS because it is all about setting new limits, pushing your HR to the maximum and making your body to be used to the punishment.

More than 2 of those a week would just be too much, I tell to the people that come to my class to do interval to a max of 2X a week and the rest of the week to do tempo or endurance work.

If you can handle 3 spin classes a week:
1) you are a pussy and not pushing yourself
2) your instructor is a moron
3) all of the above