Second Cycle

[Irish]

Running my second cycle. Deca 400 & Test Prop 500/week. Second week in and no strength or weight gain. Actually feels like I'm a bit weaker and have lost some muscle mass. Also heartbeating hard and resting HR up appr. 20 bpm. I'm 6'3 230 lbs. WTF am I doing wrong? Any suggestions?

[theboss]

why are you using Prop & Deca together?
why not Test E & Deca or Prop & NPP ??

Can you give us more info on your injection frequency and your diet.

[daande]

I agree with boss.

Either run test prop and npp or test and deca. It will make your life easier as to pinning.

[waderow]

Running my second cycle. Deca 400 & Test Prop 500/week. Second week in and no strength or weight gain. Actually feels like I'm a bit weaker and have lost some muscle mass. Also heartbeating hard and resting HR up appr. 20 bpm. I'm 6'3 230 lbs. WTF am I doing wrong? Any suggestions?

you sure your gear is legit?
you taking nay other supplements or stimulants?
whats your diet?
how much cardio are you doing?
what are you doing for training?

[cog]

Did you suddenly increase training load?Dehydrated?Lots of coffee?

[Irish]

Thanks for the quick responses.
My caloric intake is appr. 5000/day. I start the day and end the day with weight gainer shakes appr. 1100 cal and intake high protein q 2 hrs. appr. 50 g. Healthy carbs and fats with every second protein intake whether shakes or meals. Lots of veggies and fruits. I eat big and to the point of nearly puking but try to keep it moocho healthy. Supps are high quantity of fish oil ie. double to triple the daily recommended dose when cycling. Zinc. High quantities of B6 & 12. Whey Isolate and Cassein.
Don't mind the pinning frequency as I wanted a quick response from the Test w/o having to front load with orals (vary wary of my wee liver). Prop 75 ED and Deca 200 twice/week.
The gym is four days a week like this:
Legs
off
Chest & Bi's
Back & calves
off
Shoulders & Tri's
off
Try to keep the workouts under 1 hr. but sometimes creep up into the 1 hr. and 15 min. range. I press for mass on all compounds ie. 5 X 5 usually or if plateuing mix it up a bit. I stopped doing deadlifts about six months ago after noticing my mid section was thickening too much and becoming un-proportional. Still do the basic frees religiously rear and front squats and flat/incline and sometimes decline bench. I never do more than 3-4 exercises for the big parts and never more than 2-3 for the wee ones.
Sleep is poor and I work shift work in a non-physical labour roll for the most part about 60-70 hrs./week right now. I strive to get at least 7 hrs. sleep but usually end up settling for 5-6 hrs.

Hope that helps form some opinions.

[Irish]

Nay to the stimulants and have actually halved my caffeine intake from teas and coffees.
Training partner is who I got the gear through and he likes this particular UG lab stuff better than any of the other 3 brands that he's tried over the last year.

[waderow]

60-70 hours a week work
5 work outs a week

youre probably burnt out

[tex]

^ x2. also...my resting heart rate will go up for the 1st few weeks of a cycle then for some reason it dumps way low....

[gsxr750]

You don't feel ANYTHING different? Libido, sense of well being, etc? Or is the only problem the strength

[Irish]

The libido slightly increased but I didn't expect much change d/t the Deca anyway. I actually feel like I am losing muscle mass as well as not having any strength or size increase. I only work out 4 times/week and sometimes only three if I am feeling exceptionally tired.
My first cycle was purely Test, both E and P. I was taking 800/week for 16 weeks and definitely noticed a change in my drive and recovery. Although I didn't have much in the way of strength increases, I didn't feel sluggish like I do now. I almost feel like you do when you end a cycle. I actually feel the same from an energy and drive perspective as I did before the cycle if not even more complacent.

[Irish]

*

[JonnyO]

did you just start eating 5000 calories at the time you begun the cycle?

[Irish]

Nope. This caloric intake has been pretty steady since the beginning of my last cycle appr. 8 months ago. I guess I'm not the only one who's stumped.

[JonnyO]

Post your diet up, I'd like to check it out bro if you dont mind.

[monkey]

The libido slightly increased but I didn't expect much change d/t the Deca anyway. I actually feel like I am losing muscle mass as well as not having any strength or size increase. I only work out 4 times/week and sometimes only three if I am feeling exceptionally tired.
My first cycle was purely Test, both E and P. I was taking 800/week for 16 weeks and definitely noticed a change in my drive and recovery. Although I didn't have much in the way of strength increases, I didn't feel sluggish like I do now. I almost feel like you do when you end a cycle. I actually feel the same from an energy and drive perspective as I did before the cycle if not even more complacent.


You didn't feel a strenght increase on 800 mg and 16 weeks??? I would seriously question what you are doing if 800 mg didnt give you SERIOUS strenght gains on your first cycle...

[kloan]

Maybe the gear's crap.. same lab as 1st cycle?

[Irish]

Don't really understand the statement "I would seriously question what you are doing if 800 mg didnt give you SERIOUS strength gains on your first cycle...". What I'm doing is working out like I have been for years only now I'm using gear as I'm getting on in years - 37. I sought the guidance of a respected and champion bodybuilder, and read, and read, researched, and read some more. I have used three different brands of UG lab gear now, with varying results and sides and NONE have given me much in the way of strength or weight increases. All of them gave me better recovery and stamina. They all came from different sources, and all but one source was a friend. Looking for help and suggestions not flaming.
My diet other than a full serving of PVL Mutant masss when I first get up and one when I go to bed (appr 1100 cal. each) has no rhyme or reason other than I intake every 2-3 hrs. and all servings contain at least 30 grams of protein. I usually eat a whole chicken or the equivalent every day, including pork, beef, fish. I eat a shit load of green vegetables every day including fresh/frozen and canned. Three to four pieces of fruit usually apples or oranges sometimes berries. Usually the equivalent of 8 eggs half and half. Peanut or Almond butter, yogurt and Atkins Protein Bars for snacks. I use whey isolate 50g 2 -3 times a day as well. Usually 2 servings of oatmeal a day or a couple of slices of whole grain sour dough bread. I work shift work so the timing of any of these food products is scattered all about the day depending on the shift. I also go through a couple of large tubs of cottage cheese a week. Anything to add?

[Irish]

Don't do street drugs and only drink some light beer usually once a week.

[Irish]

Oh and I have multi-joint tendonitis from an antibiotic allergic reaction and press through the pain thanks to some great prescription non-steroidal topical rub and a ton of determination and will power.

[monkey]

[QUOTE=Irish;334739]Don't really understand the statement "I would seriously question what you are doing if 800 mg didnt give you SERIOUS strength gains on your first cycle...".

No flaming here...it's just that ( and most people would agree) your first cycle, for most people at 500 mg week of test only will easily result in 20 pounds of weight gain ( if you do most right). this should come with a decent strength increase.. I am not talking about an additional rep or two, more like 30 pounds on your bench or something you will notice.

All I am saying that this is why people take test.. because you gain muscle and build strenght..

If you don't get that.. well, chances are something is wrong. Your gear is shit, your diet is shit, you train like shit , don't sleep enough , overtrain etc.. ( I didn't read through it and am not evaluating what you said. Not saying you do any of the above, just throwing some of the possible reasons out there.. so don't feel attacked buddy).

There are tons of reason you are not getting the desired results.. but most people gain significantly o their first cycle, even if they do tons wrong ( they just dont keep much)



So, how much weight did you gain of 800 mg??
Are you 100% sure you are not using fake gear??
Consider resting more..perhaps...


Eitherway.. you SHOULD be making gains.. if you are not, you have to evaluate all the variables that lead to gains..

[Irish]

Appreciate the clarification. The only thing I can think of is poor sleep. I mean three different sources-all of whom I associate with fairly regularly-and three different labs=legitimate gear I think. Balls shrank, libido always increased to varying degrees, and my back breaks out like a mutha. I only work out a max of 4 times/week for no more than 1 hr 15 min ever. My diet is text book in content, including the appropriate amount of calories. I am stumped and obviously everyone else is as well. I seriously doubt that sleeping 6 hrs./night as opposed to 8 hrs./night would cause me to have absolutely no weight gain and very little to no strength increases.