gaining muscle while dieting

[Shaun73]

Is it possible when in a calorie deficit to gain muscle while dieting?
Lets assume your stacking aswell.

Reason im asking is that i came off my diet last month and since then i am about 10lbs heavier than before i started my diet. I look like i put on some size when i rebounded but i have barely even set foot in the gym.

[Thorgrim]

What does stacking mean? AAS?

I've done it a few times natural actually not huge amounts but 2-3 pounds muscle gain over a few months while leaning out. Not that big but I was natural when I did it.

Lot's of guys on gear pull it off.

[Ritch]

Here we go again...

Nate wanna take a stab here?

[natenator]

nope I'm done. We'll let those who believe it possible to think it possible and we'll let those who think it not possible think it not possible.

[RagingRandy]

Through my reading I have seen people argue both sides. Usually they are relying personal information. I have always wondered if this is more an individual thing and can not be stated uniformly.

I know personally when I train hard my body recovers faster when I eat a larger amount of calories. I feel better, so I eat more.

[rickyboy36]

Is it possible when in a calorie deficit to gain muscle while dieting?
Lets assume your stacking aswell.

Reason im asking is that i came off my diet last month and since then i am about 10lbs heavier than before i started my diet. I look like i put on some size when i rebounded but i have barely even set foot in the gym.

If your diet is top notch and nutrition partitioning is taken into consideration and have "plenty" of GH and Tren..yes!!Many top level atheletes "grow" in their contest prep.But we dont want to run high doses of that,so its out of the question i guess

Othewise,doing both is extremely hard and you would have to be perfect with both diet and training to be able to do so(but it can and HAS been done).Im trying something right now on a keto diet where i supercompensate for a few days and then train hard and heavy.So far it seems the best that will be accomplished however is i will be maintaining everything i have and will be able to go into a bulk with out any strenght issues..

It really isnt easy doing both...

[JacktheThriller]

after a strict diet the body is starving and hypersensitive to all nutrients. The rebound effect of packaging on muscle, is a real thing. It is your bodys adaptations to coming off a diet and trying to store every nutrient available.

[warlock]

If you are growing muscle while dieting down it means that your diet used to be crap and your program sucked!

[gsxr750]

'What are you growing on while dieting? Air? ;o)'

[Thorgrim]

Some of these posts are a little vague but I am getting the feeling that some here feel it is impossible.

I have weekly bodyfat and weight records that show me simultaneously losing fat and gaining muscle over a 2-3 month period.

Now I agree that you might not be able to lose fat and gain muscle at the same exact point in time but what if you are rotating your calories or something? For example day 1 surplus calories, day 2 neutral cal, day 3 negative calories? Or you might rotate over a longer period of time maybe a week? or shorter?

I was following an intermittent fasting eating schedule where I wasn't eating anything but some BCAA's for a 16 hour period followed by a 8 hour gorging period. It worked. Burned fat for a good part of the day and was very anabolic for an hour before my workouts and about 6 hours after.

This might not work for a really big guy. I was eating about 2600 cal during the eating phase but it was about all I could do. If I had to eat much more then that I wouldn't have been able to do it. Not enough time to get it all in.

[rickyboy36]

Some of these posts are a little vague but I am getting the feeling that some here feel it is impossible.

I have weekly bodyfat and weight records that show me simultaneously losing fat and gaining muscle over a 2-3 month period.

Now I agree that you might not be able to lose fat and gain muscle at the same exact point in time but what if you are rotating your calories or something? For example day 1 surplus calories, day 2 neutral cal, day 3 negative calories? Or you might rotate over a longer period of time maybe a week? or shorter?

I was following an intermittent fasting eating schedule where I wasn't eating anything but some BCAA's for a 16 hour period followed by a 8 hour gorging period. It worked. Burned fat for a good part of the day and was very anabolic for an hour before my workouts and about 6 hours after.

This might not work for a really big guy. I was eating about 2600 cal during the eating phase but it was about all I could do. If I had to eat much more then that I wouldn't have been able to do it. Not enough time to get it all in.

I know exactly what you mean,and this is what i have been trying to do on my diet..but the results arent apparent at the moment.It does seem that at best i will maintain muscle and strenght instead.

The idea was to get into ketosis for a certain amount of time..lose a few pounds then transit very quickly and carbload as quickly as possible to a supercompensation level..then train balls to the wall.During this period I wouldnt gain fat,I'd be very strong,and be i in a very anabolic environent.You must count your calories and nutrient ratios to a tee.Then the idea was to get back into Ketosis pronto by using some ideas i had heard of and start the process all over again.Some people on other boards swore they had both lost weight and gained muscle at the same time..although if you look at it closely it isnt at the same time,but rather in seperate times bundled all together in a single program.

Plus the people who did achieve this were most likely on higher doses than us..using tren and GH simultaniously.

Maybe if you are lucky and have a special metabolism and have knowledge of diet and training you might be able to.Otherwise..goodluck

[Thorgrim]

I don't think you need to go in and out of ketosis necessarily. Seems like a hard way to do it. As long as you are negative energy balance for a period of time and then positive you should be able to do it. Definitely want to to be over-eating before during and after your hardest workouts and under-eating when you are doing easy workouts, light cardio or off days.

Under-eating actually primes your muscles to take up a greater % of nutrition when you do overeat.

[tiramisu]

Gaining muscle and losing fat seems to be quite common for absolute beginners that are undermuscled and overweight. Once you've got some muscle on you the ability to add muscle while in a calorie deficit drops down to very little to nothing without the aid of drugs. I'm not saying that it's not possible to add 1 or 2 pounds of muscle in 3 months with perfect diet and an aas that is extremely effective at food partitioning (ala tren). I'm just saying it's extremely unlikely.

In most cases the drugs are bulking up the muscle fiber with extra water that will simply be dropped when they are discontinued so you've actually much less muscle or none at all although the scale says your weight is up and your body fat is down.

[gsxr750]

You put on 5 pounds of muscle and gain 2 pounds of fat, your overall BF % drops but you didn't lose any fat..

[steve_d]

^ do the math, that's incorrect. Unless you start off at like 50% fat (depending on how much you weigh that is).

[steve_d]

Gaining muscle and losing fat seems to be quite common for absolute beginners that are undermuscled and overweight. Once you've got some muscle on you the ability to add muscle while in a calorie deficit drops down to very little to nothing without the aid of drugs. I'm not saying that it's not possible to add 1 or 2 pounds of muscle in 3 months with perfect diet and an aas that is extremely effective at food partitioning (ala tren). I'm just saying it's extremely unlikely.

In most cases the drugs are bulking up the muscle fiber with extra water that will simply be dropped when they are discontinued so you've actually much less muscle or none at all although the scale says your weight is up and your body fat is down.

this sums it up perfectly. And all the arguing over this topic is silly because both sides to the argument usually agree with this comment, so essentially there isn't an argument.

[gsxr750]

^ do the math, that's incorrect. Unless you start off at like 50% fat (depending on how much you weigh that is).

Can you do it for me?

If I put on 5lbs of LBM and 2lbs of body fat - given muscle density is 1.06g/ml and fat is roughly 0.9g/ml how does overall body fat percentage not go down? Helppp

[Thorgrim]

You put on 5 pounds of muscle and gain 2 pounds of fat, your overall BF % drops but you didn't lose any fat..

Must be pretty fat then. When I did it total fat dropped about 5 pounds. Total muscle went up 2-3 pounds. Bodyfat% went from about 10% to 7.5%. These aren't exact, I'm going off memory but I could look it up. I remember gaining about a pound of muscle a month and dropping half a pound of bodyfat a week. I didn't see improvement every week but that was the trend. Towards the end once I reached about 8% bodyfat progress stalled, the diminishing returns thing.


this sums it up perfectly. And all the arguing over this topic is silly because both sides to the argument usually agree with this comment, so essentially there isn't an argument.

I do agree that the more advanced you are the harder it is to simultaneously gain muscle/lose fat.

[natenator]

Must be pretty fat then. When I did it total fat dropped about 5 pounds. Total muscle went up 2-3 pounds. Bodyfat% went from about 10% to 7.5%. These aren't exact, I'm going off memory but I could look it up. I remember gaining about a pound of muscle a month and dropping half a pound of bodyfat a week. I didn't see improvement every week but that was the trend. Towards the end once I reached about 8% bodyfat progress stalled, the diminishing returns thing.



I do agree that the more advanced you are the harder it is to simultaneously gain muscle/lose fat.
Were you in a calorie deficit

[MMASTAR]

myself and lots of people belive you can put on size while losing fat if you are eating all the esential fats and proteins muscles require to grow.

[tiramisu]

myself and lots of peope believe in santa, the easter bunny and jesus.

just saying believing doesn't make it so.

[MMASTAR]

dont tell me santa, the easter bunny and jesus dont exist, i simply can not accept that.

[ta-kid]

I wade into this thread cautiously,as i am a newbie to this site ,but not the sport.Can you gain muscle naturally while dieting.Of course you can.The degree you gain depends on what level of your potential development you are at,and your level of experiance,which has already been pointed out by others.
One thing i have noticed is that as you lose bodyfat and can see the muscles you have developed you actually LOOK bigger even though you may not be.You may even be smaller.
I have gone on a fat loss diet and ended up actually stronger,but not necessarily bigger.Some muscles lost some size and others gained size.One thing I noticed with myself is they all got that denser and harder look.

[Sean Summers]

Just work out the numbers guys...
If you weighed 200lbs at 10% body fat you would have 20lbs of fat and 180 lbs of lean body mass. Now if you started to juice and went up 10 lbs but you didn't add any fat then you would be at 210 lbs. Now would you still be at 10%...of course not despite still having the original 20 lbs of at on you. Body fat did not change but body fat percentage dropped to 9.5%. Did you gain muscle and lose fat? Well not really. Sure you gained muscle, dropped body fat percentage BUT YOU KEPT THE SAME AMOUNT OF FAT.
SS

[gsxr750]

^^ Exactly what I was trying to say but you say it much better.

[Thorgrim]

Were you in a calorie deficit

Must have been because my body weight dropped about 3 pounds.

[Reaver.]

Just work out the numbers guys...
If you weighed 200lbs at 10% body fat you would have 20lbs of fat and 180 lbs of lean body mass. Now if you started to juice and went up 10 lbs but you didn't add any fat then you would be at 210 lbs. Now would you still be at 10%...of course not despite still having the original 20 lbs of at on you. Body fat did not change but body fat percentage dropped to 9.5%. Did you gain muscle and lose fat? Well not really. Sure you gained muscle, dropped body fat percentage BUT YOU KEPT THE SAME AMOUNT OF FAT.
SS

Well said bro!

[kloan]

Just work out the numbers guys...
If you weighed 200lbs at 10% body fat you would have 20lbs of fat and 180 lbs of lean body mass. Now if you started to juice and went up 10 lbs but you didn't add any fat then you would be at 210 lbs. Now would you still be at 10%...of course not despite still having the original 20 lbs of at on you. Body fat did not change but body fat percentage dropped to 9.5%. Did you gain muscle and lose fat? Well not really. Sure you gained muscle, dropped body fat percentage BUT YOU KEPT THE SAME AMOUNT OF FAT.
SS

When you calculate lean body mass, do bones, organs, blood, etc account for that 180lbs as well?

--
The way I see it, you can burn fat while building muscle if you're on a diet that forces your body to burn fat for fuel. You'd still be in a caloric surplus. I can't see how a human body could physically build new muscle mass while in a caloric deficit. I'd love to see a scientific study conducted on this though, would be interesting and satisfying to see the results.

[natenator]

When you calculate lean body mass, do bones, organs, blood, etc account for that 180lbs as well?

--
The way I see it, you can burn fat while building muscle if you're on a diet that forces your body to burn fat for fuel. You'd still be in a caloric surplus. I can't see how a human body could physically build new muscle mass while in a caloric deficit. I'd love to see a scientific study conducted on this though, would be interesting and satisfying to see the results.
there are a few here that say it is possible because they've seen it with their own eyes. lmao

[Praetorian]

Just work out the numbers guys...
If you weighed 200lbs at 10% body fat you would have 20lbs of fat and 180 lbs of lean body mass. Now if you started to juice and went up 10 lbs but you didn't add any fat then you would be at 210 lbs. Now would you still be at 10%...of course not despite still having the original 20 lbs of at on you. Body fat did not change but body fat percentage dropped to 9.5%. Did you gain muscle and lose fat? Well not really. Sure you gained muscle, dropped body fat percentage BUT YOU KEPT THE SAME AMOUNT OF FAT.
SS

Bingo!

[baza]

I will say it is rare.
I will say it can be done.
I think the ideal way to do it is through carb/calorie cycling. Where you won't necessarily burn fat as quickly, but you can potentially put on muscle.
I wish I took before pictures when I started dieting this year for proof.
When I'm dieting on about 2200-2300 calories for six months, and I'm benching 365 for 5-7 reps at about 8% bf, I'm fairly confident that I put on muscle, considering I was no where near that before I started dieting.

[Shaun73]

ok majority of you say no and i see where you are coming from.
In a calorie surplus you are in a more anabolic state so you can build muscle
and in order to burn fat you need to be in a calorie deficit. However how can you explain those of us that stay the same weight while reshaping our bodycompositon. For example those of us who stay the same weight and appear to be more leanar and developing more muscle.

[rickyboy36]

ok majority of you say no and i see where you are coming from.
In a calorie surplus you are in a more anabolic state so you can build muscle
and in order to burn fat you need to be in a calorie deficit. However how can you explain those of us that stay the same weight while reshaping our bodycompositon. For example those of us who stay the same weight and appear to be more leanar and developing more muscle.

1-Are you a beginner?Then there are chances yes.If not,probably not unless you are a master at dieting and training and use insulin,DNP,tren,GH,but thats a whole different ball game and way too damn dangerous for us to even try.
2-Believe it or not..someone who maintains weight and adds cardio for the first time will "appear" leaner,yes.

Presuming you are in a calorie defecit,when you do cardio, you develop this whole body "pump" where places like legs get bigger and muscle seem to expand soemwhat cause of the blood entering the muscles giving it nutirents and oxygen.Also..a lot of water(not fat) that was retained in the skin has either entered the body or sweated off(which will make you less heavier on the scale also).This gives you a more dtailed look somewhat.But its more or less the body looking harder and losing water cause of this tiny pump you develop and blood filling in..

Its the same with winstrol when some are lean bulking with it.People think you lose fat from this steroid where in fact its water being flushed out between the skin and muscle and around the joints which gives you the impression once again fat was lost...while gaining muscle