Routine to improve flat bench?

[CanadianIron]

My barbell bench routine progress typically is way slower than all my other lifts as far as progress...

Usually my routine for flat bench would look something like this:

135 X 20
225 X 12
275 X 8
315 X 8
335/345 X 2-4 reps.

I've tried doing a bit of the 5X5 on the bench but Im curious as to other ways to improve my chest.

Would it be beneficial to drop the weight for a few weeks and go for 20 reps sets or something like that?

Thoughts? Need something new to try...

[Drummer]

For me, concentrating on incline for the first part of my chest day and then going to wide weighted leaning dips second for about a month worked. Would do flat last on chest day. Went back to flat as my main bench and was stronger.

Another thing I tried on the advice of a friend : supersetting flat bench with a row (I used T bar row). It zaps energy but for some reason I felt more stable on bench when I did it. Only for a month at a time tho.

Lots of variations used : slowing your reps 3 seconds up 2 down, chaining, banding, grip slightly moved in or out, etc.

Just a couple of things ppl do. Your bench looks pretty good already tho ;)

~D~

[CanadianIron]

Im happy with my bench, i just want to hit 405 sometime in the next year or so. My progress has really slowed lately though.... i takes like 4 weeks to add a rep to my 3 plate max.

[JacktheThriller]

i would say cycle down your strength for a few weeks, u cant go full bore all the time, start at 80% of your regular max for regular reps and slowly start going back up in weight your body will enjoy the break and respond

[waderow]

You're tiring your self out

Light cardio
Shoulder warm up and stretch
135 x 20
225 x 5
315 x 4
365 x fail
315 x fail
275 x fail
225 for stretch

[tex]

no need for that 20 repper to warm up......

[AlladdinSane]

You're tiring your self out

Light cardio
Shoulder warm up and stretch
135 x 20
225 x 5
315 x 4
365 x fail
315 x fail
275 x fail
225 for stretch

What is this?

[waderow]

What is this?

Pretty obvious isn't it?

Post up your ideas if they're better

[AlladdinSane]

I wasn't being a dick. I don't do that. I was simply wondering what it was. Is it a page from your workout log? Is it what he should be doing based on the numbers he posted? What is "225 for stretch"?

Geez. Everyone is so touchy around here lately... ;)

[waderow]

Sorry. Thought you were attacking


I posted that based on his numbers and think hed be better off not lifting such high reps for warm up. Save it for working sets. Then a drop set with a nice slow light stretch at the end.

[O-Train]

I wasn't being a dick. I don't do that. I was simply wondering what it was. Is it a page from your workout log? Is it what he should be doing based on the numbers he posted? What is "225 for stretch"?

Geez. Everyone is so touchy around here lately... ;)

I posted up my WS workout program over on the other site if you would like to take a look. I might have gotten a couple things wrong.

I guess it applies to this thread also. A West Side program is specifically designed to improve the bench press so it may be an option. I'm not the one to ask about it though.

[buildinthaskinnys]

I wasn't being a dick. I don't do that. I was simply wondering what it was. Is it a page from your workout log? Is it what he should be doing based on the numbers he posted? What is "225 for stretch"?

Geez. Everyone is so touchy around here lately... ;)

LOL thats what i thought, i didnt want to say anything though, I was worried that someone would bite MY ****IN HEAD OFF!!!! FOR **** SAKES **** FLAP SCAB!! <------- Not directed at anyone in particular.

[AlladdinSane]

In response to Wade:

I will agree with that... except the stretch thing at the end. Never really got that one (when we're talkin' bench). That's what I'd use other accessory exercises for (like the pec deck or cable crossovers).

If I were to write out what he should do based on his numbers, it would look very similar to what you had put down:

Shoulder warm up (but no stretch)

135 x 8
225 x 5
275 x 3
315 x 1
3-5 min rest
365 x 1
3-5 min rest
315 x As many as possible ~2-3?
3 min rest
275 x AMAP ~5+ x 2sets

Move on to next exercise.

[AlladdinSane]

I posted up my WS workout program over on the other site if you would like to take a look. I might have gotten a couple things wrong.

I guess it applies to this thread also. A West Side program is specifically designed to improve the bench press so it may be an option. I'm not the one to ask about it though.

Checked and commented on.

[AlladdinSane]

<------ Thread-Killer.

[waderow]

I always enjoy a nice light stretch after.

You think it is taking away from gains?

[AlladdinSane]

Maybe not taking away from gains, but your strength output will be lessened on your following exercises. I also like to be in full control whilst stretching in case a stretch gets too deep and a tear happens (this does happen and it's lousy not being able to get that weight off of your chest without tearing it more). And in your scenario, he will fail @ 275 so I think 225 may still be too heavy to use for stretching.

All in all, I'd say that the reward does not outweigh the risk regarding this. But that is just one opinion.

[dremen]

Well i've heard a few guys say they scrapped BB bench for a whole month and just did DB flat, decline and incline with HEAVY weight and when they went back to BB bench they could lift more?

Think i might try this one day.

[MMASTAR]

^^^ can you make your avi go slower, i want to look at those bums but there just to damn fast, it hurts my brain!

[CanadianIron]

In response to Wade:

I will agree with that... except the stretch thing at the end. Never really got that one (when we're talkin' bench). That's what I'd use other accessory exercises for (like the pec deck or cable crossovers).

If I were to write out what he should do based on his numbers, it would look very similar to what you had put down:

Shoulder warm up (but no stretch)

135 x 8
225 x 5
275 x 3
315 x 1
3-5 min rest
365 x 1
3-5 min rest
315 x As many as possible ~2-3?
3 min rest
275 x AMAP ~5+ x 2sets

Move on to next exercise.


This sounds smart.

I posted the thread and jetted off to the gym right away.. I thought Id try something different so I setup a flat bench in the power rack and set the stops just above my chest.

I did inclines to start my workout so I skipped the warm up set.

185 X 12
245 X 8
295 X 7
315 X 4 >Failure
335 X 2 >Failure

Felt pretty good, I think skipping the lighter weights to start helps. Im gonna try what Aladdin suggested next week though, I just need a good spotter, hard to find these days.

[dremen]

^^^ can you make your avi go slower, i want to look at those bums but there just to damn fast, it hurts my brain!


Left click and hold then drag and it will pause;)

[tiramisu]

You didn't mention whether you have a speed day, a max effort day, how often you train bench. You are starting to be in the place where a starr model, texas method, or westside is going to do more for you than trying to max out every workout or haphazardly hope that you can add a rep or a weight each workout.

Weekly programming ala Starr 5x5, WestSide or Texas Method is probably going to be more productive.

[tiramisu]

... you mentioned 5x5 but didn't say how you did Heavy, Medium, Light etc. It sounds like you are trying to grind out a straight linear progression and it's simply failing at this point.

Accessory work and identifying your weakness in the lift is probably useful as well.
Another area of importance is technique. Dave Tate/EliteFTS videos are very helpful.

I spotted a 435 bench a couple of weeks ago and as well as being a small mountain of a man the young fellow also had the best benching technique that I've seen to date.

[tiramisu]

... and if you're looking for a silver bullet instead ...

http://ditillo2.blogspot.com/2009/09/bench-press-plateaus-bill-starr.html

[BCprick]

http://www.tmuscle.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance/bench_press_600_pounds_a_12_step_program

[Praetorian]

My barbell bench routine progress typically is way slower than all my other lifts as far as progress...

Usually my routine for flat bench would look something like this:

135 X 20
225 X 12
275 X 8
315 X 8
335/345 X 2-4 reps.

I've tried doing a bit of the 5X5 on the bench but Im curious as to other ways to improve my chest.

Would it be beneficial to drop the weight for a few weeks and go for 20 reps sets or something like that?

Thoughts? Need something new to try...

Too many reps on warmups is tiring you out prior to hitting the most important heavy sets...this is slowing your progress dramatically.
Try this:
135 12
225 8
275 5
315 3
335/345 as many as possible
315 as many as possible
275 as many as possible

Also do not start your chest routine with flat bench each week...keep the same rep scheme but alternat flat and inclines.
P

[CanadianIron]

I usually alternate starting with incline/flat every other workout. I've been following the Dave Tate bench form for the last month or so, it has been beneficial.


When I was doing 5X5 I was doing,

50% 1RM
60% 1RM
70% 1RM
80% 1RM
90% 1RM

[Thorgrim]

I have had pretty good success with 5x5's but I did them differently then what you posted up. Not really sure what you mean with those percentages.

What I did was find a weight that I couldn't quite press for all 5 sets of 5 with a controlled rest period. So let's say for me that would be 200 and I might only get 3-4 reps on the final set with 2.5 minutes rest between each set.

Then for the next work out I would back off the weight a bit maybe do 190 for 5x5 (or 185 even), next time 195 for 5x5 now when I try 200 again I get the 5x5, then 205 for 5x5, then 210 and I can't complete all 5 sets so I take a week or two off the 5x5's do a different exercise for higher reps then back to 5x5's starting at 200 and progressing up from there.

Don't know if this sort of thing would work well for you but that is what I have done in the past.

[faller]

Give this a try Thorgrim.. Its called "cluster", take the weight that you can do for 5 reps and than do 5 more rest pause reps till you get your 10 reps.. I love this one almost as much as the 5x5.

[gregdoucette]

135 X 20
225 X 12
275 X 8
315 X 8
335/345 X 2-4 reps.

Looks pretty good to me, u training for a max or muscle mass or rep strength or what.

Today fro bench I did
155*20
254*12
315*8
355*8
315*15 so basically were trainign pretty simlilar. why the 335-345 for 2-4 reps thats a waste if ur aiming to build muscle, why not drop back to 275 for a high rep set after doing 315 to failure.

[CanadianIron]

Why? I dont know, I've always believe size came from moving big weight. I'll try dropping and doing more next time.

;)

[Ritch]

I once did the "increase your bench by 50lbs" I got from mm2k back in the day. It worked! I hit 315 for the first time when I was 20 or something. I think it`s a 10 week program, not sure. But google it, I`m sure it`s still out there.

[swolegantor]

If you are really keen on increasing your 1 rm but want to continue doing higher reps try jim wendlers 5/3/1.

If you are looking for a ridiculous solution that will leave you hating your life for a few weeks you can Try Smolov Jr


Which is this:

Week 1 (SETSxREPSxWEIGHT)
Mon - 6x6x70%
Wed - 7x5x75%
Fri - 8x4x80%
Sat - 10x3x85%

week 2- Same but add 10 more pounds to each set (So instead of 300x10x3 or whatever do 310x10x3)

week 3- Same thing (add 5 more pounds so its 315 instead of 310 etc etc)

After that take a week off and go for a new max.

On this program you dont do ANY other sort of push lifting (no shoulder/chest/tricep exercises) except maybe superlight flyes and pushdowns for recovery.

It also helps if you eat like no tomorrow and try to get lots of sleep. It may look ridiculously hard but its not uncommon for people to get 30-40 pounds on there bench from this program.

[faller]

If you are really keen on increasing your 1 rm but want to continue doing higher reps try jim wendlers 5/3/1.

If you are looking for a ridiculous solution that will leave you hating your life for a few weeks you can Try Smolov Jr


Which is this:

Week 1 (SETSxREPSxWEIGHT)
Mon - 6x6x70%
Wed - 7x5x75%
Fri - 8x4x80%
Sat - 10x3x85%

week 2- Same but add 10 more pounds to each set (So instead of 300x10x3 or whatever do 310x10x3)

week 3- Same thing (add 5 more pounds so its 315 instead of 310 etc etc)

After that take a week off and go for a new max.

On this program you dont do ANY other sort of push lifting (no shoulder/chest/tricep exercises) except maybe superlight flyes and pushdowns for recovery.

It also helps if you eat like no tomorrow and try to get lots of sleep. It may look ridiculously hard but its not uncommon for people to get 30-40 pounds on there bench from this program.

A week off from training all together?

[CanadianIron]

I tried something a bit different yesterday, tried a routine including isometrics after my normal sets. Bench felt strong, I think skipping some of the mediocre warm up sets was a good thing, I got my spotter to stand back for my heavier sets and was able to handle the weight fairly easier. Next week Im going to work up to 3 plates faster and try 2-3 sets of 5 reps.

I did,


95 X 20
185 X 10
245 X 8
285 X 8
315 X 6
335 X 4

Then I set up the bars on the power rack 0 and 4" from my chest and did sets of 3 reps with 2 5 second holds and a 3rd for as long as possible, i used 185, then 225 then 245 for these sets and finished with a set with just 135 on the bar with 3 reps of 10 seconds each.

It was an interesting experiment and I hope to improve on the bottom of my bench from it, Im definately feeling it today.

I did incline smith presses and cable flies after my flat routine.

[Thorgrim]

Give this a try Thorgrim.. Its called "cluster", take the weight that you can do for 5 reps and than do 5 more rest pause reps till you get your 10 reps.. I love this one almost as much as the 5x5.

Sounds fun, I'll give this a try sometime in the next few weeks.

[swolegantor]

A week off from training all together?

While I would certainly deload. You cant run the routine with a full bodybuilders split going or anything

Usually guys will do a leg workout (light low volume) and a back workout (same) once a week as well just for maintance but pretty much all of your recovery abilities are going towards your benching muscles.

And yes I mean a full week of nothing.


If you want to see a really brutal version of this program check out the real smolov program for squats. its insane.

[gregdoucette]

95 X 20
185 X 10
245 X 8
285 X 8
315 X 6
335 X 4

Very unique progression here I would not recomend it. If ur trying to add muscle the workout makes no scence if ur training to be strong it not so bad. try doing board presses if u really want to get ur max up there.
As strong as u are ur first set should easily be 135 then 225 then 275 then 315 for a max rep set. then add boards with the 335 that way ur getting enough reps and still training heavy.

[nisser]

The examples that AS and praet showed make the most sense. Doing a 20rep set just makes no sense. Stretch before hand, then do a warm up of ~10 reps with 1 plate then move on to the heavy shit. It gets the blood pumping and form in check without pre-exhausting you too much.

[tex]

if you want to really improve your bench press you need to improve the muscles that are most used during the press. you need to do heavy tri work. heavy lat work and then shoulder work. for tri's you need a variety of overhead extensions with palms facing in....db tri ext, db tri ext with elbows flared to the sides, cambered bar extensions etc...for lats you should be doing a lot of chest supported rows, db rows, bb rows, cable rows....for shoulders I would do heavy front and side raises....also you should work on your rep speed so you'll need to do some speed work....bar speed + absolute strength = big benching

[CanadianIron]

I stopped pretty much all tri work back in August because my tendonitis was getting so bad. I tried doing my tri's the other day again and they were stronger than before I stopped. So I dont know if its worth trying to work them again, the only tri exercise I can do without elbow pain is dips..

[dremen]

I stopped pretty much all tri work back in August because my tendonitis was getting so bad. I tried doing my tri's the other day again and they were stronger than before I stopped. So I dont know if its worth trying to work them again, the only tri exercise I can do without elbow pain is dips..


Dips REALLY. WOW man dips put SO much pressure on the arms. It's weird you can do em.

What about overhead DB extentions CI, any luck with those bro?

Peace.

[Sean Summers]

Listen to Super Human Radio Episodes #403 and #404. You can d/l them here:

http://www.superhumanradio.com/rss/show_podcast.xml

or subscribe to them on iTunes. They mention a website on the show. Check out that site also. I think it was called critical bench or something like that.
Good luck.
SS

[AlladdinSane]

I stopped pretty much all tri work back in August because my tendonitis was getting so bad. I tried doing my tri's the other day again and they were stronger than before I stopped. So I dont know if its worth trying to work them again, the only tri exercise I can do without elbow pain is dips..

What this is telling me is that you have some weird adhesions is your tricep/lat/teres area not allowing your triceps full stretch. When this happens elbow pain is the result because the tendon will stretch instead of the muscle as the muscle is severely bunched up and stuck to the rest of the muscles that meet behind your arm under your post-delt.

THIS IS WHAT YOU DO TO FIX IT:

Foam roll the hell outta that area, get some sweet, sweet ART done in that area as well as a bit on the elbows, and after a couple of weeks of both of those things start EASY stretching (easy because otherwise you just re-aggravate the elbows). During this time take it REALLY easy on most upper body work as most exercises will incorporate triceps/lats/teres and that will slow down the process (if exercised intensely).


If you do this you should be good to go in 4-6 weeks for all triceps work (not to mention benching like a freak).

[CanadianIron]

Dips REALLY. WOW man dips put SO much pressure on the arms. It's weird you can do em.

What about overhead DB extentions CI, any luck with those bro?

Peace.

It has to do with hand position. A hammer grip style dip is fine, overhead DB extensions are the worst for this problem. I developped this problem after doing close grip benches and it pretty much spread to all tri related work. At this point I can do most tri exercises without pain, as long as I go light, overhead extensions is the one exception. I used to be able to do 120lb dumbell extensions, now 50lbs hurts. Its annoying to say the least.

I'll try a foam roller, but what is "ART"...

[AlladdinSane]

Active Release Technique

[CanadianIron]

I tried taking out some of my warm up reps,

went....

135 X 10
225 X 10
275 X 10
315 X 7

I didnt get the reps I wanted on the final set, but im going right down to my chest now so Im happy with the reps im getting. If I had a good spot I would have gone heavier, I need a training partner.

[nitrous]

ya always go to your chest.. use dave tate's chest technique that Praetorian posted http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dh3t6T-nqP0

and in my opinion the best way to get strong on bench is to practice bench.. doing flies and dumbell press are good for the chest but wont help as much at getting a stronger bench

[CanadianIron]

I do his technique, but for heavy sets I dont park it on my chest unless I have a good spot, which I usually dont. Unless my spot can dead 3 plates,I only go to where I know I can lift it... my gym is lame sauce, not many strong dudes.

[tex]

I do his technique, but for heavy sets I dont park it on my chest unless I have a good spot, which I usually dont. Unless my spot can dead 3 plates,I only go to where I know I can lift it... my gym is lame sauce, not many strong dudes.
get your ass in the power rack and set the pins so that once you get out of your arch that the bar will set on the pins.....its way better than having to peel it off of your belly or crushing your melon.......