I need help - my workouts take too long

[kloan]

I suspect I'm overdoing it... I've recently been working out for 2 hours at a time. Before it was around 1.5 hrs, but I should be able to do it in an hour, right?

I'm basically doing a 2 day split, every other day... so I work each muscle group every 4 days.

I start each workout with the biggest muscle group, doing a compound movement. I do 1 or 2 warmup sets, then I do 5x5, except for back (seated rows) where the weight isn't enough (I need more plates), so I do a slower more concentrated movement, with reps 12, 12, 10, 8.

I then proceed with the smaller muscle groups, doing 3 exercises with 3 sets each, of 8-12 reps.

Since I'm working each muscle group every 4 days, is 9-12 sets of 8-12 reps each overdoing it? Can I get away with doing less? I've been feeling pretty burnt out the day after training, perhaps my CNS is tapped out?

[baza]

Why don't you give a sample routine?

[kloan]

Alright, tonight was arms. Should have been chest to start off with, however my shoulder is acting up, so I skipped it. Had I done chest this workout would have been even longer!

Triceps

Close Grip Bench
Bar x 20
115 x 12
135 x 12
155 x 9
155 x 6

Overhead Extensions (only did two, shoulder was hurting)
35 x 10
30 x 10

Close Grip Bar Pull Down
90 x 10
100 x 8
110 x 6

EZ Bar Pull Down
100 x 8
90 x 8

Rope Pull Down
100 x 8
90 x 8

Single Handle Pull Down (arm straight down pull, elbow tucked in completely stationary)
30 x 6
20 x 12

Biceps

DB Curl
30 x 10
50 x 8
50 x 8
50 x 6

Hammer Curl
45 x 10
45 x 8
45 x 6

Concentration Curl (only did one, felt like doing Preachers instead)
30 x 12

DB Preacher Curl
40 x 10
40 x 8

DB Forearm Curl (only did one set because I realized it'd been 2 hours already)
30 x 10


As you can see, I'm kinda all over the place. It feels like I've got ADHD or something when I'm working out. I'm getting distracted by the music playing, I'm thinking of what other exercises I could be doing, what weight, etc... I have a hard time picking a particular routine and sticking with it. I'm usually changing reps or weights, sets, etc every workout.

One thing I'm wondering now, I saw Praetorian's post about starting off each set with the heaviest weight first. I'm doing it backwards?

[baza]

Damn that's a lot of exercises lol.
But your first post you talked about a two day split, and I assumed upper body then lower body.

[kloan]

The split is this:

Workout A
Chest, Triceps, Biceps

Workout B
Legs, Back, Shoulders

+Abs every few days.

I want a routine where I can workout each muscle group more than once a week, but I can't seem to figure out how to do it without making my workouts too long.

[SARGE]

The split is this:

Workout A
Chest, Triceps, Biceps

Workout B
Legs, Back, Shoulders

+Abs every few days.

I want a routine where I can workout each muscle group more than once a week, but I can't seem to figure out how to do it without making my workouts too long.Fist how many days can you workout a week.There are plenty of ways to train.2nd its a life style.eat train sleep

[kloan]

I can work out 7 days a week if I wanted to... however I prefer not to workout consecutive days. I'm really digging the every other day thing though. So if I can somehow work it out so that I can use a 2 day split, every other day, then that would be ideal for me.

I'm starting to think maybe I should give DC a shot. That's basically what I'm looking for... except it's structure is different than what I'm used to.

At this point I just want to put on as much size as possible. Whatever routine caters to that, that's what I'll go with. I can handle working each muscle more than once a week, since my recovery is quicker than that... so I want to maximize my efforts.

[buildinthaskinnys]

I think you are doing too many sets for arms, 10 sets for biceps then 10 for triceps seems like alot, if I were you I would do half of that. And honestly I feel you are doing way more exercises than you need to, I would do only two different ones for arms per workout, but rotate these bi-weekly. I would never progress spending 2 hours training arms. You should also be able to do your sets very quickly when training arms between one and two minutes rest, remember that you are stimulating more muscle fibers more quickly this way which adds to intensity, which in the long run increases growth hormone production and gpp. When I warmup also, its not not the way I started but I warm up as follows, 20% for like 12-15 reps, rest 30 second, 50% for 8-10 reps, then rest 30 seconds, then 70% for maybe 3-6 reps, that way my warmup takes less than 2 minutes. And Im kind of psyching myself up for the working sets.

[Durk]

Possibly superset push and pull together?

[JonnyO]

try 30-60 seconds between sets.

[baza]

Have you read up on DC training? It's a two day split.

[kloan]

I think you are doing too many sets for arms, 10 sets for biceps then 10 for triceps seems like alot, if I were you I would do half of that. And honestly I feel you are doing way more exercises than you need to, I would do only two different ones for arms per workout, but rotate these bi-weekly. I would never progress spending 2 hours training arms. You should also be able to do your sets very quickly when training arms between one and two minutes rest, remember that you are stimulating more muscle fibers more quickly this way which adds to intensity, which in the long run increases growth hormone production and gpp. When I warmup also, its not not the way I started but I warm up as follows, 20% for like 12-15 reps, rest 30 second, 50% for 8-10 reps, then rest 30 seconds, then 70% for maybe 3-6 reps, that way my warmup takes less than 2 minutes. And Im kind of psyching myself up for the working sets.

Since triceps are bigger than biceps, would it make sense to do more sets for triceps, or does it matter?

For smaller muscles, 2 exercises, 3 sets each? So 6 sets total for each muscle group?

I generally do only wait a min or two between sets.. but I think when I get distracted by the shitty music playing on iTunes radio, I tend to waste time searching for something else to listen to. I also think since I use the DBs a lot, it tends to make the workout longer as opposed to using a barbell.. since when you think about it, it's basically twice as long to complete a set when I'm alternating sides.

[kloan]

Have you read up on DC training? It's a two day split.

I have a little bit. I found it pretty confusing at first.. I think I have a pretty good understanding of it now though, if not a bit unsure still.

Is DC good for size or strength?


The other complication is the equipment I have. I need some alternatives to particular exercises that are suggested for DC.

I have:

PowerBlocks
Bench
Squat rack
Barbell
Cable pulley
Chin up bar

[baza]

Yes. And would probably be a lot easier to follow then your routine. And wouldn't be in the gym that long. You do one exercise per body part, which is much different that what you are doing.

[kloan]

Yes. And would probably be a lot easier to follow then your routine. And wouldn't be in the gym that long. You do one exercise per body part, which is much different that what you are doing.

As long as it's geared toward putting on mass, I'm all for it! :)

I work out at home, I edited my post above to show what equipment I've got. My only concern with the DC routine is that I might be missing some key ingredients for certain exercises.

I really wish at this point I could work out in a gym. Unfortunately, I can't afford it right now.

[natenator]

As long as it's geared toward putting on mass, I'm all for it! :)

I work out at home, I edited my post above to show what equipment I've got. My only concern with the DC routine is that I might be missing some key ingredients for certain exercises.

I really wish at this point I could work out in a gym. Unfortunately, I can't afford it right now.
this will sound like a dick comment but what the hell - your all used to it by now.

You cannot afford to workout in a gym but you can afford to buy gear? Seems the priorities are a little mixed up if that's the case.

Furthermore, size = food and lots of it. If you can't afford to have a gym membership how are you affording the amount of food required for this hugeness that you seek?

[kloan]

I bought the gear before I found out my EI ran out prematurely *snip*. As I've mentioned before, I'm in the US until next year. I don't feel like getting into details again as to why I'm here, but I will say it was for unselfish reasons.

I haven't wanted or needed to work out at a gym up until this point because I have been satisfied with the equipment that I have. It's only recently that I've felt like I want access to better gym equipment, and now with my EI running out I cannot afford it. I am considering getting a part time job while I'm down here so that I can get a membership, and also help put money towards groceries... which leads me to:

Already been mentioned before (and teased about), is that I live with my mom. Fortunately for me she's very generous and buys most of the groceries... so I eat like a king, because she's a health nut and insists on buying quality food.

We all know food plays a major role in growth, there's no point telling me that. I'm eating enough to grow, but I want to maximize my efforts. If I train too much or too little, that will affect the amount of new muscle growth. Just because I'm on gear doesn't mean I'm going to slack. I push myself as hard as I can no matter what, which is part of the reason I keep working out too long in a session; I don't know when to stop.

Now can we get back on topic please?

[natenator]

Well I'm used to volume training. Your amount of volume I don't see a problem with but your workouts shouldn't be *that* long unless you are taking 2-3 min rests between sets to try and recover fully for optimal strength output.

Problem is you can only do it for so long and it requires a great deal of food to properly recover from this type of training. 4-6 weeks max for this style of training then into a deload period for a couple weeks then back into giving it hard again.

The's one style. The other style which Praetorian had me doing was a reverse pyramid style. First working set is your heaviest and for 6'ish reps. Second set a little less weight for 8 reps and 3rd a little less weight for 10 reps.

While in my contest prep I was getting leaner and stronger on this approach. For example, incline went from 275-285 for reps to 335 for reps when I had to stop.

Workouts under Praetorian's style were roughly 45-75 mins depending on bodypart.

When I get back into training seriously again I will be going back to Praetorian's style of training. I liked it and if I could do those things while dieting, carb depleted and gross amounts of cardio then I can only imagine what it will be like in maintenance calories or a surplus. Oh, and I was doing this while using less drugs than you are currently.

No lecture here dude. You make a comment about not affording something but can afford something else which is actually more important to your growth then you should expect a question on it. No need to get defensive about it (which you did) as it was simply a question/comment. You are entitled to do what you want and hope that you do but we're also entitled to inquire :)

[kloan]

Yeah, I kept going back and editing and changing my tone, then started to get worked up and added stuff, then deleted stuff, then added more, then deleted some.... lol. I can't help it sometimes... I often feel like I'm being scrutinized a lot for what I say on here when it comes to specifics... I get along better when I just joke about randoms.

They're valid questions, and it's only because I don't feel like writing a novel every time I make a comment about something that the things I say can be misinterpreted or raise questions about my priorities or motives, etc.

Anyway, I think the time between sets is definitely extending my workouts.. I lose track of time, and for some lifts I do wait a bit to get my strength back up. I saw Praetorian's suggestion in another thread for the reverse pyramid style. It's something I've never tried before, I usually ramp up in weight... so I might give that a go with a few less sets as well before I try DC.

I've always done higher volume training as well, but since I've been feeling so wiped out, I think it's time for a break.... a deloading? That's something I've never even heard of til I came here. I've been going at it like this for over a year, so yeah it's probably a good idea to drop the reps and up the weight.

It sucks because I still need some stuff, such as the add-on weights for the PowerBlocks, and some more plates. That's gonna run me a few $$... I've got some things I'm going to be listing on eBay. If I could get a gym membership for $200-250 I'd do that instead, but any gym near me cost around $400-500. The other issue being I don't want to commit to a full year, and monthlies are more expensive.

As long as I can come up with some more exercises that I can use to hit muscles such as hamstrings (anyone?), I think I've got enough to work with.. until I get too strong for the weights that I have, which I already have for seated rows and lat pull downs.

[natenator]

Yeah, I kept going back and editing and changing my tone, then started to get worked up and added stuff, then deleted stuff, then added more, then deleted some.... lol. I can't help it sometimes... I often feel like I'm being scrutinized a lot for what I say on here when it comes to specifics... I get along better when I just joke about randoms.

They're valid questions, and it's only because I don't feel like writing a novel every time I make a comment about something that the things I say can be misinterpreted or raise questions about my priorities or motives, etc.

Anyway, I think the time between sets is definitely extending my workouts.. I lose track of time, and for some lifts I do wait a bit to get my strength back up. I saw Praetorian's suggestion in another thread for the reverse pyramid style. It's something I've never tried before, I usually ramp up in weight... so I might give that a go with a few less sets as well before I try DC.

I've always done higher volume training as well, but since I've been feeling so wiped out, I think it's time for a break.... a deloading? That's something I've never even heard of til I came here. I've been going at it like this for over a year, so yeah it's probably a good idea to drop the reps and up the weight.

It sucks because I still need some stuff, such as the add-on weights for the PowerBlocks, and some more plates. That's gonna run me a few $$... I've got some things I'm going to be listing on eBay. If I could get a gym membership for $200-250 I'd do that instead, but any gym near me cost around $400-500.

As long as I can come up with some more exercises that I can use to hit muscles such as hamstrings (anyone?), I think I've got enough to work with.. until I get too strong for the weights that I have, which I already have for seated rows and lat pull downs.
old school glut-ham raises with a barbell you can do for hammies.

I'll try to find the link Praetorian sent me.

If you are feeling wiped out it's a few things: Too much training, not enough recovery and lack of food to properly recover.

Take a week off and eat like a mofo.

[kloan]

Not to discredit what you're saying, but I suspect the stimulant drink I have before my workouts is a likelier cause of my fatigue. That and overtraining. That shit is so full of stims, I think my adrenals are shot. I just ran out, so I'm not going to order any more of it and try to get back into lifting without the boost.

I hear what you're saying about eating, I just don't want to start putting on the fat again like I did last bulk.. too many carbs and I plump up quick. I have started adding an extra scoop of whey each shake recently which I've already noticed a benefit from. I know whole foods is better, but if I eat any more of the protein foods, I'm gonna start to feel guilty since I'm not paying for them. I buy my own protein powder.

Recovery might be another issue though.. I've been having sleep problems again, and I'm a night owl and don't get a lot of sunshine. Man I'm retarded.. lol. It's like all the answers are staring me in the face but I ignore them. But I don't want to turn this thread into another lost stray.

So ya post the link P. sent you if you can as I'm sure I'll find it helpful.

[ubcpower]

try 30-60 seconds between sets.

x2 , start keeping track of your rest intervals. headphones in and count em out to yourself. 60 sec for compound movements and 30 for the rest, youll be moving

[ironwill]

Have you read up on DC training? It's a two day split.

And a 3 day split as well.....Any questions about DC shoot me a pm kloan i may miss it here.........
Dante has been posting here a bit lately, and checking in now and then....

I would have to agree with the advice given by Nate here if continuing on this path of higher volume....I switched up to higher volume now, and rest as JO said, 30-60 seconds between sets for the most part...Not getting the huge lifts i was, but now im getting them to move up with the addition og hi volume, at first my ego was broken, but now on the mend since i have given it a real chance..........

[Ritch]

Kloan, end this cycle (insanity) now and go on pct. Your body has too many injuries to make this worth while and the questions you ask painfully reflect the fact you`re not ready for gear.

[waderow]

Sorry for not reading whole thread, as I am sure there have already been awesome posts and responses... but I dont know how you do it.

I do a 5day split.

After Legs, I am finished. I need food and rest.
After Back, I am finished. I need food and rest.
After Chest, I am finished on upper body. I could do calves, but I don't.
After Arms, My arms are done... nothing more I can do except calves.
Shoulders and traps, same thing. Upper body is a write off.

This split takes me 6 hours. If I did have the stamina to do it in two days, I would be looking at 3 hour work outs?

Perhaps this is why you are experiencing injuries?

[buildinthaskinnys]

Ill repeat what nate said, take a week off keep your eating in check. Re-evaluate yourself and your training, get a program together, stick with it, even a simple 5x5 would be a good start. And If you cant do regular bench try a floor press worked, for me when I suffered an injury. peace

[kloan]

Kloan, end this cycle (insanity) now and go on pct. Your body has too many injuries to make this worth while and the questions you ask painfully reflect the fact you`re not ready for gear.

Tell me something Ritch.. let's say I wasn't on gear right now, and the problems I've been having with my shoulder, mishap with squat and deadlifts were the only things going on, and I asked this same question, looking for advice on better routines for working muscle groups twice a week.

Assuming that were the case, would you come on here and tell me to give up lifting altogether, or would you actually offer advice like others have done in this thread, instead of focusing on something that's unrelated to the subject at hand?

It seems to me like you just want to come off like the caped crusader, calling me out and making me look out to be someone who doesn't know anything about lifting. If that were truly the case, I wouldn't be making the progress I have been.

Do me a favour, again, keep your comments about me using gear to yourself. I am not interested in your opinion on the matter. If you actually have something useful to contribute to my inquiry, by all means please share.

Otherwise: STFU.
--------------------

Thanks to everyone else who posted advice. I will work with it and come up with a better game plan hereon out.

[natenator]

Tell me something Ritch.. let's say I wasn't on gear right now, and the problems I've been having with my shoulder, mishap with squat and deadlifts were the only things going on, and I asked this same question, looking for advice on better routines for working muscle groups twice a week.

Assuming that were the case, would you come on here and tell me to give up lifting altogether, or would you actually offer advice like others have done in this thread, instead of focusing on something that's unrelated to the subject at hand?

It seems to me like you just want to come off like the caped crusader, calling me out and making me look out to be someone who doesn't know anything about lifting. If that were truly the case, I wouldn't be making the progress I have been.

Do me a favour, again, keep your comments about me using gear to yourself. I am not interested in your opinion on the matter. If you actually have something useful to contribute to my inquiry, by all means please share.

Otherwise: STFU.
--------------------

Thanks to everyone else who posted advice. I will work with it and come up with a better game plan hereon out.
dude you get way to defensive when someone brings up a valid point. Maybe he shouldn't have said you should not touch gear at all but I agree with his point about this cycle you should perhaps save what you have and until you are healthy enough again.

I see 150lb morons in the gym making progress every day. That doesn't mean they actually have a clue as to what they are doing.

[kloan]

dude you get way to defensive when someone brings up a valid point. Maybe he shouldn't have said you should not touch gear at all but I agree with his point about this cycle you should perhaps save what you have and until you are healthy enough again.

I see 150lb morons in the gym making progress every day. That doesn't mean they actually have a clue as to what they are doing.

Duly noted, however I'm not stopping. If I felt I was risking further or worse injury or detriment to my health, I would, however it's not at a point where that's going to happen. If I continued on as I have been, perhaps that might happen, but I'm asking for advice on ways to avoid that in the near future. Long as I follow the advice given and make sure to improve in key areas, I'll be fine.

[Talo]

When was the last time you had a deload week ?

Also just by looking at the example of your workout I would say your over training , especially your arms..... I am a true believer that arms do not need their own day of training.

[kloan]

When was the last time you had a deload week ?

Also just by looking at the example of your workout I would say your over training , especially your arms..... I am a true believer that arms do not need their own day of training.

I don't notice while I'm working out, I just write everything down... but looking at it after I posted it is obvious I'm doing too much. Combine that with the time in between sets, including trying to find other music to listen to, and I've got my reason why it ends up being 2 hours. Taking a break from the stim drink is going to help with keeping wait times to a min, plus I'm not going to have the kind of energy/stamina without it either, so I'll have to trim the sets down anyway.

I've never done a deload.. not sure exactly what it entails.

[Talo]

If you have never done a deload week maybe you should..

Few options :

Reduce the weight load to 40%,50%,60%
Reduce the Volume done
Take a week off totally .

I personally do less weight and less time in the gym. I will go in maybe twice a week and just play around with a few things and have fun . If I'm really burnt out I will take the week OFF . Regardless I always come back as strong or stronger.

Currently I don't go any more than 3 solid weeks in the gym without taking a deload.

[kloan]

I'll try reducing volume first, if that doesn't work I'll reduce weight. I find when I take a week off I get frustrated and such.. I really don't like to do it, since I don't have anything else to preoccupy my time with.

With reducing weight, do I increase reps or do the same rep range or lower?

[kloan]

Ill repeat what nate said, take a week off keep your eating in check. Re-evaluate yourself and your training, get a program together, stick with it, even a simple 5x5 would be a good start. And If you cant do regular bench try a floor press worked, for me when I suffered an injury. peace
Hey, that's an interesting idea... is floor press intended to limit shoulder movement while preventing elbows from going any lower than the back?

I'm not sure how I can do it with the squat rack I have, but I'll see if I can rig something up and give that exercise a try.

My shoulder is starting to feel better, so I will be able to start benching again soon at a lower weight with a different, more controlled form. I found while doing the close-grip bench I could do it without any pain whatsoever in my shoulder, and that was because my elbows were completely tucked in. So I'm going to see if I can come up with variation with that movement combined with the 'proper form' bench method.

At the same time though, my upper/inner chest needs more size vs my lower/outer chest... so while bench does work more than just my chest, it certainly doesn't need quite as much dedication until I can get the other muscles caught up.

[Talo]

If your going to reduce the weight to less than 60% of what your doing now I don't think you should increase the reps because than your not really deloading ,you'll still be putting your body in a state of shock. The whole point is to give the muscles and CNS ( more so ) a break.

I see where your coming from with not wanting to take a whole week off . Sometimes I plan to get some ART or deep tissues done that week so I don't want to workout anyways , just recover.

[O-Train]

The split is this:

Workout A
Chest, Triceps, Biceps

Workout B
Legs, Back, Shoulders

+Abs every few days.

I want a routine where I can workout each muscle group more than once a week, but I can't seem to figure out how to do it without making my workouts too long.

Decrease # of exercises and sets (volume). Increase intensity and decrease rest periods, problem solved.

[Ritch]

Ya kloan, this is gonna be such an effective cycle because now that you`re getting a program that may work for you (I say that because even the best plans don`t work for everybody), you gonna do a deload or take a week off when you should be in peak production ( you`d be in peak mode right now if you knew what you were doing) so ya, it`s going great, 6 weeks of nothingness... Yet you say you know you stuff? You`re nuts.

And you say I don`t give you advice and just shit in your thread. In your log, I listed 2 or 3 different splits for you. Advice I never even got a simple thanks for. So the hell with trying to help you with your training.

And did I ever tell you to give up lifting? No, I said stop the cycle. Learn what works for you, save the cycle for when you have this info at hand no matter how long it takes.

I`m actually dissapointed that someone like you who`s been a member here for long enough should no better not to be doing what you`re doing now.

[natenator]

man the ****ing guilt trips from you 2 are brutal. I swear you got vaginas.

[Ritch]

man the ****ing guilt trips from you 2 are brutal. I swear you got vaginas.

Just one of us still has sand in theirs...

[natenator]

Just one of us still has sand in theirs...
your the one who just whined because you never received a thanks for the couple helpful suggestions you put in his log.

I'd say sand is still firmly planted in yours.

[Ritch]

your the one who just whined because you never received a thanks for the couple helpful suggestions you put in his log.

I'd say sand is still firmly planted in yours.

Nah, it`s just reason to not help in again with his training when I already did. If I really had sand in my vagina, I would have complained when I posted the info and never got my thanks. C`mon Nate...

Anyway, hate you later...

[kloan]

Thanks for all the helpful posts everyone!

/thread