Trying to lose some fat

[BigDane]

I'm trying to lose some stubborn fat right now (belly and lovehandles). Currently 6'2" 230lbs around 15%. 2 weeks ago I was 238lbs so somethings working.

I'm a bit confused on the cardio side of it right now. I usually go in the morning on an empty stomach, usually 5 times a week. I use the arc trainer for 30-35minutes at a resistance level of 30 and an incline of 7. My heartrate is usually in the160's. Ive read that optimal heartrate for fat burning is around 125-135 but when I keep it around that level I dont really feel like its doing much as I dont get much of a sweat. Also, I take a few fat burners before my cardio and this elevates my heat rate. Its next to impossible to keep it in the fat burning zone.

I have also started throwing in some HIIT after my workouts in the evening twice a week for about 15minutes each session. I use the spin bike and go hard for a minute then slow for a minute.

My diet is pretty clean. Mostly chicken, fish, beef(on occasion), vegetables, brown rice, oats, whey

Should I stick with this cardio routine or is the heartrate not optimal for my fat loss goals

Thanks in advance for input.

[waderow]

what is your calorie intake?


and that cardio youre doing is eating your muscle as fast as its eating your fat

[baza]

You don't have to feel 'it' to burn fat.

[BigDane]

Havent counted my calories but heres what I eat on an average day....

Cardio 30-35 min

Breakfast: half cup oats, banana, 2 scoops whey, slice whole grain toast with peanut butter

Snack: Scoop whey, half cup almonds

Lunch: Large Chicken Breast, 2 Cups Brown Rice (cooked), 2 Cups veges

Snack: Peanut butter or tuna fish sandwhich on whole grain bread

Lift

2 scoops whey, 30g dextrose

Dinner: 2 chicken breasts or a steak 2 cups vegetables

40g Casein shake before bed with half cup almonds

[grader]

You don't have to feel 'it' to burn fat.

agreed 100%, far to many people if not almost all of them think that you have to feel the burn or kill yourself with cardio to burn fat and thats not true, when it comes to burning fat, the harder you go mentality isnt true, its the longer you go the more fat your burn, if you really want to shed the pounds without losing the muscle you worked so hard for try this

45 mins of " cardio " 4-5 times a week while keeping your heart rate in the 130 zone, nobody is an exception to this tried and true number. you might not " feel " it but you will defenitly see the results. as for a " fat burner " as soon as ephedrine was banned in fat burners no such thing existed, get your hands on some ephedrin ( no its not illegal, they just make it in very lose dosages )and try taking a ECA stack.

any other questions send me a pm

[baza]

Havent counted my calories but heres what I eat on an average day....


Hold on while I take the time to do it for you...

[BigDane]

agreed 100%, far to many people if not almost all of them think that you have to feel the burn or kill yourself with cardio to burn fat and thats not true, when it comes to burning fat, the harder you go mentality isnt true, its the longer you go the more fat your burn, if you really want to shed the pounds without losing the muscle you worked so hard for try this

45 mins of " cardio " 4-5 times a week while keeping your heart rate in the 130 zone, nobody is an exception to this tried and true number. you might not " feel " it but you will defenitly see the results. as for a " fat burner " as soon as ephedrine was banned in fat burners no such thing existed, get your hands on some ephedrin ( no its not illegal, they just make it in very lose dosages )and try taking a ECA stack.

any other questions send me a pm

My fat burners have the good stuff in them. I know the other ones are pretty useless.

Any thoughts on adding the HIIT in there in the evenings a few times per week

[waderow]

calories might be too high for your body weight if you are wanting to cut

without looking hard, I figure youre taking 3600 cals a day? you need to figure that out....

adjust your cardio like previously mentioned to a lighter intensity, and lower cals ...prob by 15-20%

[heaven_leigh]

My fat burners have the good stuff in them. I know the other ones are pretty useless.

Any thoughts on adding the HIIT in there in the evenings a few times per week

6'2" and 230 lbs.... you are perfect. Why change? Nothing better than a big guy with just a little on the side.

However with the cardio, I would add intervals as it keeps things interesting. Also, it's important to you mentally to work hard enough to feel it. With cardio you improve very quickly and you need to challenge yourself. If you burn some muscle ... so what?? You can always build it back up.

BTW: I am a runner so my opinion will be very different from everyone else here.

[BigDane]

calories might be too high for your body weight if you are wanting to cut

without looking hard, I figure youre taking 3600 cals a day? you need to figure that out....

adjust your cardio like previously mentioned to a lighter intensity, and lower cals ...prob by 15-20%

Thx for the input, Ill calculate my calories to get a better idea. So youre say around 3K a day is about right?

Any thoughts on the HIIT?

[BigDane]

6'2" and 230 lbs.... you are perfect. Why change? Nothing better than a big guy with just a little on the side.

However with the cardio, I would add intervals as it keeps things interesting. Also, it's important to you mentally to work hard enough to feel it. With cardio you improve very quickly and you need to challenge yourself. If you burn some muscle ... so what?? You can always build it back up.

BTW: I am a runner so my opinion will be very different from everyone else here.


LOL....thx for the compliment.

If the "little on the side" was evenly distributed it would be ok but Im finding now in my early 30s that its starting to accumulate a bit too much around the belly area and love handles. I need to get it in check before it gets out of hand. Ive also been on a bit of a hiatus from the gym since September so my size isn`t where it once was. If I can stay around 230 and lose a few % Ill be happy :)

[baza]

Also, it's important to you mentally to work hard enough to feel it. With cardio you improve very quickly and you need to challenge yourself. If you burn some muscle ... so what?? You can always build it back up.

BTW: I am a runner so my opinion will be very different from everyone else here.

It's nice to take part, but that is some poor advice to offer anyone.

BTW, rough guess I would say it's closer to 2500 then 3600

[heaven_leigh]

It's nice to take part, but that is some poor advice to offer anyone.

That's not poor advice. Most runners do massive cardio and burn serious calories. I am out there running 6 to 7 hours a week.

Just run the fat off. The faster you run the more calories and overall fat you will burn. You can easily keep your heart rate 70% of your max for prolonged time. You will burn massive calories.

My heart rate is over 170 bpm for most my runs. During a race my heart rate is over 180 for the entire time. NO PROBLEM AT ALL. Don't be afraid to push your limits. If you vomit after a run you know you did good. He he ... just kidding.

[waderow]

the point is that we want to retain muscle, not train for a marathon. They are very different sports and catabolizing hard earned muscle is a sin

[ta-kid]

I disagree with some of the statements here but I am no expert either.But here is what i found about losing bodyfat and I am 6 foot 3 and 53 yeas old,270lbs with a resting heart rate of 50 BPM.I lost the most bodyfat by low intesity cardo work.A very fast walk or light jog maintaining a heart rate of 95 BPM to 105/110 BPM.I have always found for myself once I broke the the 115 BPM rate for any length of time that it became aerobic and you burn more bloodsugars and glycogen then actual bodyfat.
What you want for maximum bodyfat burn is a heartrate 55% to 65% of your max heartrate for your age group.Otherwise at a aerobic heart rate your body systems will burn only the easy glycogen in your blood,muscles and liver for energy first before converting fats to energy.Now for me that would be about 30 to 40 minutes of energy before I hit a wall and start burning fats,and I do not want to spend a hour on a treadmill with little to show for it.
Just some food for thought,not that you will not lose some bodyfat doing a 130 plus BPM aerobic workout and gain benifits of better lungs.I just never wanted to deplete my glycogen in my muscles in the process of losing fat around my waist.
There are also many books out on Glycemic index ratings of certian foods and food combinations that may help you in reducing your bodyfat also if you have any history of diabetis in your family history.BUt thats another whole other subject in reducing bodyfat.

[heaven_leigh]

The Ugly Truth

The body does burn a higher percentage of calories from fat in the 'fat burning zone' or at lower intensities. But, at higher intensities, you burn a greater number of overall calories which is what you should be concerned about when trying to lose weight. The chart below details the fat calories expended by a 130-pound woman during cardio exercise:


Low Intensity - 60-65% MHR

Total Calories expended per min: 4.866
Fat Calories expended per min: 2.43
Total Calories expended in 30 min: 146
Total Fat calories expended in 30 min: 73
Percentage of fat calories burned: 50%
High Intensity - 80-85% MHR


Total Calories expended per min: 6.86
Fat Calories expended per min: 2.7
Total Calories expended in 30 min: 206
Total Fat calories expended in 30 min: 82
Percentage of fat calories burned: 39.85%
From The 24/5 Complete Personal Training Manual, 24 Hour Fitness, 2000

http://exercise.about.com/cs/cardioworkouts/l/aa022601a.htm


I understand that body builders are very concerned about perserving muscle. However, I haven't found any literature that tells me exactly how much muscle you burn during high intensity cardio.

Calorie Deficit
The key factor in determining whether or not you lose primarily body fat or primarily muscle is the amount of deficit (the difference between the calories you take in and the calories you expend). Keeping your deficit to around 250-1000 Calories per day will result in a weight loss of about 1/2 to 2 lbs. per week, primarily from fat. Larger deficits will result in a shift toward losing more muscle.

http://www.oaktrees.org/fitness/burnMuscle.html

This is the best I can do right now. I will do some more research at the Toronto Reference Library. I seriously would like to know exactly how much muscle a person burns with intense cardio.

[waderow]

where those cals come from is the discussion.

no doubt you burn more calories when exerting more intensity... but whether the cals come from fat or not is the key

[baza]

I understand that body builders are very concerned about perserving muscle. However, I haven't found any literature that tells me exactly how much muscle you burn during high intensity cardio.

The bottom line is we don't want to burn any.... well as minimal as possible.



This is the best I can do right now. I will do some more research at the Toronto Reference Library. I seriously would like to know exactly how much muscle a person burns with intense cardio.

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41428000/jpg/_41428169_mmarathon_getty.jpg
There's your answer, almost all of it.

Really, you're just try to argue with something you have very little experience on. It would be like me coming to your running club and telling everyone it's more efficent to run with your toes touching first, then the heel, rather than heel to toe. How would that look if I came and tried to argue that?

[kidmode]

I personally do HIIT, on a stationary bike. It's easy to keep track of time, rpm, etc.

2 minutes warmup on low resistance.
30 second hard on high resistance
1 minute rest on low resistance
30 second hard on high resistance
until you can't go anymore

70 rpm during warmup and rest phases, 120 rpm during sprint. But that might be a personal thing, depends on the bike and what not. On my HIIT, 15 minutes is a LONG time. I'm not in shape right now and I can only do about 5-8 minutes. When I was in okay shape I was up to about 9-11 minutes. Do HIIT immediately post workout, then go eat. Your last interval should be sloppy, hard, everything hurts lol. You go until you can't go anymore.

I'd do that 2-3 times a week, spaced away from your leg workout. Trust me on that one lol. If you do jog, make sure it's relatively slow paced with low impact on your joints. And since you're aiming for weight loss, you're probably gonna wanna do that for at least 45 minutes. You mentioned you can't feel it, that's good. If you can feel it, you're running too fast, slow down. One of the bodybuilders that trains at my gym will just do a fast walk for 3 hours lol, no one has that kind of time and that's an extreme end of the spectrum but you get my point.

Edit: Personally I did this stuff for maintenance while I was eating like a beast. So I wouldn't balloon. So I'd imagine a similar program with a strict diet would do the trick. Someone destroy me if I'm way off.

[natenator]

The Ugly Truth

The body does burn a higher percentage of calories from fat in the 'fat burning zone' or at lower intensities. But, at higher intensities, you burn a greater number of overall calories which is what you should be concerned about when trying to lose weight. The chart below details the fat calories expended by a 130-pound woman during cardio exercise:


Low Intensity - 60-65% MHR

Total Calories expended per min: 4.866
Fat Calories expended per min: 2.43
Total Calories expended in 30 min: 146
Total Fat calories expended in 30 min: 73
Percentage of fat calories burned: 50%
High Intensity - 80-85% MHR


Total Calories expended per min: 6.86
Fat Calories expended per min: 2.7
Total Calories expended in 30 min: 206
Total Fat calories expended in 30 min: 82
Percentage of fat calories burned: 39.85%
From The 24/5 Complete Personal Training Manual, 24 Hour Fitness, 2000

http://exercise.about.com/cs/cardioworkouts/l/aa022601a.htm


I understand that body builders are very concerned about perserving muscle. However, I haven't found any literature that tells me exactly how much muscle you burn during high intensity cardio.

Calorie Deficit
The key factor in determining whether or not you lose primarily body fat or primarily muscle is the amount of deficit (the difference between the calories you take in and the calories you expend). Keeping your deficit to around 250-1000 Calories per day will result in a weight loss of about 1/2 to 2 lbs. per week, primarily from fat. Larger deficits will result in a shift toward losing more muscle.

http://www.oaktrees.org/fitness/burnMuscle.html

This is the best I can do right now. I will do some more research at the Toronto Reference Library. I seriously would like to know exactly how much muscle a person burns with intense cardio.
screw the literature and start recognizing that it doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that distance running = muscle burn.

Try running for extended periods of time on a keto diet and let's see how fast your ass hits the pavement.

You have done very well for yourself as your pictures prove that but you have like almost no muscle so you cannot speak intelligently on this topic of how to lose FAT. You lost both fat AND muscle.

We bust our ass hard to gain muscle. Gaining 10lbs of muscle in a year takes some serious, serious ballsout, bone splitting, nuthugging working oh and requires you eating like you got a tapeworm. To lose 10lbs of fat...does not.

This is not a runners forum.

[BigDane]

Hmmm.....

Doesn't seem like there's any cut and dry best way to burn fat. Everyone seems to have their own method. I guess the main thing with the cardio is just to do it and diet is key.

I will stick to my cardio in the morning but will lower the intensity to keep my HR down as I don't want to lost muscle. I plan on buying a spin bike soon so maybe ill mix in Kidmode's method a few times a week in the evenings.

Any thoughts on eating something prior to cardio in the morning? I've heard mixed ideas on this as well. Most times I just pop my fat burners and go on an empty stomach but would eating a protein/carb/fat (15/22/4) be a bad idea? Or just a scoop of isolate in water?

Any thoughts on this?

[fourarms]

Pre AM cardio I take 5 grams each of BCAAs, leucine, and glutamine. It seems to help maintain muscle and not interfere with fat burning.

I agree that HIIT on the spin bike is best for shedding fat quick as well as bringing your cardio way up. Yes during it you'll be primarily burning glycogen rather than fat, but post workout your metabolism is spiked and this is when you burn fat. And since it is short duration, you shouldn't burn muscle. This probably wouldn't apply if you are running really low carbs and are totally glycogen depleted, but in that case you wouldn't likely be able to handle the intensity of HIIT. I wouldn't do HIIT more than three times/week, it takes alot out of you if you really give an honest all out effort.

[heaven_leigh]

Main Goal - Burn Fat

Eat 5 to 10 grams of fast-digesting protein 1 hour before fat burning cardio sessions:

2 hard boiled egg whites
1 1/2 oz canned light tuna
1/2 scoop of whey protein blended in water.
as per Muscle and Fitness Mag: 101 Fat Burning Workouts and Diet Strategies.

[nisser]

Just stop. Please.

[BigDane]

Just stop. Please.

lol

this morning i did 40 minutes on the treadmill (10incline/5speed) Managed to keep my HR between 130-140 the whole time and was surprised at the sweat I got. Calories burned were just over 400 as opposed to the 650-700 I was burning going at a pretty high intensity on the arc trainer for half an hour.

Drank a shake 20minutes before hand. 1 scoop isolate in water with 2 tsp of glutamine.

Stick to this program? I plan on doing this 5x per week.

[natenator]

Keto diet + cardio 2x/day (40mins in morning, 40 mins after weights = quickest results.

Keep HR 120-130

weight 5 days a week.

Legs
Chest + abs
Back
off/cardio only
Shoulders + abs
Arms
Off/cardio only

[baza]

lol

this morning i did 40 minutes on the treadmill (10incline/5speed) Managed to keep my HR between 130-140 the whole time and was surprised at the sweat I got. Calories burned were just over 400 as opposed to the 650-700 I was burning going at a pretty high intensity on the arc trainer for half an hour.

Drank a shake 20minutes before hand. 1 scoop isolate in water with 2 tsp of glutamine.

Stick to this program? I plan on doing this 5x per week.

I don't think he was talking to you.

[BigDane]

I don't think he was talking to you.

Ya I know. I was just having a laugh at the "just stop please" comment. I'm assuming it was directed at HL's muscle and fitness mag idea.

Kidmode......gave that HIIT a try this evening. I could only last 5minutes. My legs were f'n killing me. Will go for 6 next time. Definitely a great way to shock the system:D

[pseclint]

I have always been interested in Keto, here that works like a damn......

[Millennium Drop]

I have always been interested in Keto, here that works like a damn......

Found this on another forum. Dan D came up with it. It is HARD but works like nothing else I have tried. Doing it now.....

The Cyclical Ketogenic Diet: True Fat Loss

In recent media, low carbohydrate diets have been THE fad for almost everybody in America wanting to lose weight. From your secretaries, elementary school teachers, and desk clerks, to bodybuilders, models, actresses, and athletes.

However, there is a huge difference between those who follow an Atkins plan and those who follow a cyclical ketogenic diet (CKD). Atkins is a low carb plan for those who are quite sedentary, walk maybe 3 times a week at the most, and just follow normal everyday activities. So forget Atkins here. The CKD is for those who’s main concern is true fat loss and muscle preservation—muscle for sports and high intensity activities.

My opinion for those who practice Atkins is that while they do lose fat, there is much water loss and most importantly muscle loss. Something we athletes do not want. A CKD is a true fat loss diet that works undeniably, if followed properly and strictly. Yes, low carb diets can be hell at first, but after two to three weeks, there have been anecdotal reports from many dieters that the cravings for carbohydrates decrease. This route to fat burning is unlike any traditional diet all the low-fat diet authors and FDA people have been advocating in history.

I got turned onto this diet a few years back when I got tired of cutting fat and still not being able to lose those last percentage points of bodyfat without losing hard earned muscle. I would start a low-fat diet, and be a either a social misfit (not going out with my friends to party or not going out to eat). Or in the worse case, feel so deprived of delicious junk foods I missed and bail out on the diet all together. One advantage to this diet is that there is no true restrictions on food. One may eat anything labeled a "food"! Well, almost. I’ll explain later.

How the diet works.

The science behind the CKD is simple. Carbohydrates in the diet cause an insulin (a "storage" hormone) output in the pancreas. It is used to store glycogen, amino acids into muscles, while causing excess calories to be stored as fat. So common sense asks me, "How can one try to break down fat, when your body is in a storage-type mode?" Difficult to do, indeed. That is why it makes perfect sense for step one to be cutting carbs.

The next thing that happens in your body is the rise in catecholamines (a "fat mobilizing" hormone), cortisol (a "breakdown" hormone), and growth hormone. Now your body realizes there’s no more carbs to burn for energy, so it must find another energy source: fat.

This usually happens during a metabolic condition called "ketosis." This is when your liver is out of glycogen and starts to produce ketones (by-products of fatty acids). You can check your status of whether or not you are in ketosis with urinalysis strips you can pick up at any local drug store called "Ketostix." Just urinate and see if it turns color. If so, you have ketones in the urine.

When the body is fed fat and protein, it will use dietary fat along with bodyfat for energy with protein going towards repair.

As a side note, there is another reason why this diet makes the most sense to use while keeping muscle. When one follows a high carbohydrate, low-fat, reduced-calorie diet, there’s a point when some bodyfat is burned, but when the body is still in a carbohydrate burning metabolism while trying to lose "weight," it will strip down precious body protein to convert to glucose for energy.

On the other hand, during fat metabolism, protein cannot be converted into free-fatty acids for energy. Although there is no scientific research done on this, there have been reports from followers that there truly is a "protein-sparing" effect. It makes sense doesn’t it? Where else would the body look for fat energy when all dietary fat is burned? Bodyfat.

Diet Requirements Mon. to Fri.

The phrase "working smarter, not harder" applies here more than any diet one has tried. One must fully understand what they must do in order to optimize their goal. To set a CKD up, one cannot just expect to cut all carbs in the diet, train hard, and lose fat! Although some have come up with variations to this plan, the one stated in this article, I have found, has worked for myself (it got me to 6% BF), and other clients I’ve trained to the leanest, hardest they’ve ever been.

First, to set up the diet, write down your lean mass weight. Not your total weight, dough boy. If you weigh 200, but have 20% bodyfat, your lean mass weight would be around 160 pounds. Multiply this by one, getting your grams of protein requirements for a day. Make sure you eat at least one gram of protein/pound of lean mass! This is important in recovery from workouts and enough nitrogen retention to keep muscle. Next, multiply by four, to get your protein calories. Here, it is 640.

The rest of your caloric requirements for the day should be fat. Here is the catch: you must eat fat to burn fat. There’s no way around it. There are many advantages to dietary fat on this diet: Feeling of fullness since fat digestion is slow (less hunger), tastes great, and lowers blood glucose levels (lowering insulin and allow all the fat burning hormones to do their job).

So how much fat? I always recommend starting out with a 500 calorie deficit from your maintenance calories. If you don’t know, it is usually 15 times body weight (full body weight here) depending on an individuals metabolic rate. So here, the example would need 3000 calories a day to maintain weight, and 2500 calories to begin fat loss.

2500 minus 640 (protein calories) is 1860 which works out to be around 206 fat grams a day. Now as you go deeper into the diet, and find the need to restrict calories more, you must cut fat calories, not protein.

The Weekend Carb Load

Since muscle glycogen is the main source of energy for anaerobic exercise such as weight training, we cannot simply deplete all stores while working out and not fill them back up. If that does happen, be rest-assured that the body WILL use protein for fuel then. But this won’t happen on the CKD.

Your one and a half days of "freedom" allow you to do two things: First, reward your carb cravings from the previous days, allowing you to enjoy pleasures like pizza, pasta, breads, etc. Second, eating these things are physiologically rewarding as insulin levels run high, storing amino acids and carbs, as glycogen, into the depleted muscle allowing you to be able to workout again the following week.

Your "carb-up" should begin Friday night and last until around midnight Saturday. Now the next important issue to address is how many carbs. Some lucky individuals find that they eat whatever they want for the 24-30 hour time interval and receive perfect glycogen compensation, while others rely on a better statistical number.

What has been recommended by other authors of the CKD is 10-12 grams of carbs per kilogram of lean mass. Again, time to do math. Our example had 160 pounds of lean mass, so divide that by the conversion factor of 2.2, and we get roughly 73 kg.

100 Grams of easily digested liquid carbs along with around half as many grams of carbs in protein (here 50) as a whey shake or something of that nature should be taken right after the last workout (which I will address in the workout section of the article) when insulin sensitivity will be at its greatest.

A few hours later this individual will start to spread the remaining 630 grams of carbs, along with the important number of 160 grams of protein (remember, keep this constant) during the remainder of the compensation period.

So what about dietary fat? I know you’re reminding yourself, "Didn’t this guy mention pizza?" Yes, I did. And here’s why. During the first 24-30 hours of carbing up, the body will use all dietary carbohydrates to refill glycogen, protein for rebuilding, and get this: fat for energy. Still?

Just like the previous five and a half days. Makes sense. When all the carbohydrates are being used for more important functions (muscle), what else is there to be used? However, you can’t just eat all the fat you want. Keep grams of fat intake below your body weight in kilograms. Again, here our example will keep is fat below 73 during the carb-fest.

By anecdotal reports, this should keep fat regain minimal to nil. Keeping fat intake extremely low has even caused some extra fat burning during the carb up!

As stated before, some dietary fat should be eaten to slow digestion and keep sugar levels stable. Whether it be saturated, unsaturated, or essential fats, is the dieter’s decision. All have nine calories per gram. (Note: there is a claim that essential fatty acids such as flax seed oil increase insulin sensitivity within the muscle cells, in turn, increasing glycogen intake.)

In Case You Missed It

So here’s how it breaks down during the week: Sunday through Friday afternoon , you will follow the low carb diet outlined above. Eat fat and protein all day everyday except on workout days because after workouts, you will need to consume strictly just protein—no fat or carbs.

Some have found to enjoy a protein shake afterwards because they are easily digested. Do whatever works for you. But fat is not logical since you want the protein to fuel the healing process as quickly as possible and fat will only slow it down.

Friday afternoon, around two hours before your last workout of the week, eat two to three pieces of fruit. This will get your body/liver ready to start the carb loading and give you some energy for that final, dreadful workout (trust me, during the first few weeks, you will not want to do that final workout, but you must). Then from Friday night until Saturday at midnight or until bed, eat those carbs!

CKD Workout

Now, the question is, how do we workout to optimize muscle preservation and keep our metabolism up while dieting? Before we get into that, one must realize that during any dieting scheme there is one thing that must be done, and one thing that must not be done.

First, you must keep training volume lower than your usual routine. Overtraining is probably the number one killer in motivation, it deprives sleep, and hinders fat loss.

Second, you must not fall into the myth of lighter weights with higher reps. You got your muscle by benching 240, and you have to bench 240 to keep that same muscle! Or at least around that area! Okay, now that we have that established, here’s what we do:

On Monday and Tuesday we will work our weaker body parts, rest or cardio on Wednesday and Thursday mornings, Thursday do our strongest body parts, and Friday a combination of the Monday/Tuesday workouts in a loop format. The workout I have found to work optimally for myself and my clients is this:

(Note: You may feel free to tweak, shake, and turn this example upside down.

Everybody is different, so find what works for you.)

MONDAY: Chest, Back, Abs

High intensity workouts with 60 sec rest between sets, 90 sec rest between

each exercise

(this excludes all warm up sets)

Bench 3 sets, 6-10 reps

T-bar Row 3 sets, 6-10 reps

Incline bench 3 sets, 6-10 reps

Latpulldown to front 3 sets, 6-10 reps

Dips or Decline bench 3 sets, 6-10 reps

Shrugs 3 sets, 6-10 reps

Flys (any type) 2 sets, 10-12 reps

Reverse flys 2 sets, 10-12 reps

Stiff-leg deadlift 3 sets, 10-12 reps

Rope ab crunch 3 sets, 10-15 reps

Reverse crunch 3 sets, 10-20 reps

TUESDAY: Shoulders, Arms

Same intensity mentioned before

Behind the neck shoulder press 3 sets, 8-10 reps

Military press 3 sets, 8-10 reps

Preacher curls 3 sets, 8-10 reps

French press or "skull-crushers" 3 sets, 8-10 reps

Shoulder raises (any type) 2 sets, 8-10 reps

Hammers 3 sets, 8-10 reps

V-bar tricep press 3 sets, 8-10 reps

Forearm curls 2 sets, 8-10 reps

Reverse forearm curls 2 sets, 8-10 reps

Wednesday: Rest or Cardio

Thursday morning: Rest or Cardio

Later on Thursday: Legs

Same intensity mentioned before

Squat or Leg press 4 sets, 6-10 reps

Lying leg curl 4 sets, 6-10 reps

Standing calf raise 4 sets 6-10 reps

Leg extensions 4 sets, 10-12 reps

Seated leg curl 4 sets, 10-12 reps

Seated calf raise 4 sets, 10-12 reps

Friday night: Final Workout

Same intensity mentioned before

Bench 2 sets, 6-10 reps

T-bar Row 2 sets, 6-10 reps

Incline bench 2 sets, 6-10 reps

Latpulldown to front 2 sets, 6-10 reps

Behind the neck shoulder press 1 set, 8-10 reps

Military press 1 set, 8-10 reps

Either curl exercise 2 sets, 8-10 reps

Either tricep exercise 2 sets, 8-10 reps

Stiffleg deadift 1 set, 8-10 reps

Normal floor ab crunch 2 sets, 10-20 reps

Reverse crunches 2 sets, 10-20 reps

Start the carb up for 24-30 hours!


Aerobics

Before we go on, I want to address the cardio/aerobics issue. Some people find that for the first month on a CKD, cardio/aerobics is not needed. However when fat loss does start to slow down a bit, that is when most start adding 30 min. sessions on their off days. Be careful though, you do not want to hinder your Thursday leg workout. So experiment and try to only add aerobic sessions if you feel you have to.

Supplements

So we have the basic diet outline stated, the workout, now what about supplements? Things that can extremely optimize this diet regime. Well, I have to admit no allegiance to any supplement company on this one: Water. Water is important on any diet, especially low carb since there is a diuretic effect, and more importantly during the carbing period. Glycogen is stored with water! You need as much water as possible to hydrate the depleted muscle. Trust me, you will feel a huge "pump" on Sunday morning from all the stored carbs and water INSIDE your muscle.

Speaking of muscle, the god of all sports supplement right now: Creatine. It can still be used on a low carb diet. Usually 10 grams a day during the low carb days, and around 20-30 grams during the carbing period should work for most everybody. I highly recommend it for everybody who doesn’t get an upset stomach using it.

Finally, one that everyone that’s dieted before knows about: The ECA stack. Most have not used pure ECA, but mainly herbal extracts in thermogenic products sold by sports supplement companies. For a pre-work out boost and increased fat burning through thermogenics (heat), this is my favorite supplement. It does its job, you feel it happening, and it can help you psychologically when you don’t feel like working out that day.

Conclusion

With all this said, I will throw my personal opinion, thanks and motivation on or for the cyclical ketogenic diet. First of all, to me, it is the greatest diet every developed. It makes sense, works and isn’t as hard to follow as one might think. Just stay motivated and concentrate on your goal.

When you have a craving during the week for that cupcake or pasta, just go eat a delicious serving of some pepperoni and melted mozzarella cheese. Or how about a hamburger patty covered in cheddar cheese and some strips of bacon? Foods that are delicious and that can satiate hunger.

I followed this exact plan this past summer for eight weeks and loss 18 pounds of fat without any loss in muscle. It was the leanest and most vascular I had ever seen myself.

And I must give thanks where thanks are due since I did not come up with this diet. Dan Duchaine, who recently passed away, brought my attention to a CKD with his book BodyOpus and Lyle McDonald has done deep research and wrote his book The Ketogenic Diet: A Complete Guide for the Dieter and Practitioner.

This diet can be for you. Oh you’re only a mass builder? Well, lower bodyfat percentages even make you look bigger! Give it some thought and decide. Then achieve your goal. It’s worth it: A diet with true fat loss.

[natenator]

here we go

[Millennium Drop]

OK, OK, so I read a WHOLE bunch more on here about the difference between Cyclical and Palumbo. I get it! Really. So I have done both. I read the body opus and did the plan for 30 days. It was hard, really hard. Cycling is difficult because you need to have the mental fortitude to get back to dieting. By the end of each week I would have a splitting head ache. In my previous post I was in denial (honestly I forgot I had done it!). I am going to do the Polumbo instead, it did about a month ago and it was all good. Going for a longer stretch this time.

[JacktheThriller]

just eat mass amount of broccoli playa!

[GIXXER_DR3W]

Ok I have a question... what is HIIT??
thanks

[natenator]

high intensity interval trainining

primarily used in the context of cardio

60 seconds of hauling ass
60 seconds of turtle
60 seconds of hauling ass
60 seconds of turtle

that sorta thing

[fathead]

high intensity interval trainining

primarily used in the context of cardio

60 seconds of hauling ass
60 seconds of turtle
60 seconds of hauling ass
60 seconds of turtle

that sorta thing

hey nate, does anyone advocate this sort of cardio on keto diets?

by anyone i mean anyone who knows what theyre talking about?

and.... how long?

[GIXXER_DR3W]

K thanks for the quick reply

[natenator]

hey nate, does anyone advocate this sort of cardio on keto diets?

by anyone i mean anyone who knows what theyre talking about?

and.... how long?
nooooo. steady state 120-130hrt boring ass cardio

HIIT burns glycogen primarily and as you know on a keto diet.... there isn't much if any. Steady state gets the job done despite it being boring as ****

[fathead]

nooooo. steady state 120-130hrt boring ass cardio

HIIT burns glycogen primarily and as you know on a keto diet.... there isn't much if any. Steady state gets the job done despite it being boring as ****

so what are your thoughts on hiit cardio for those dieting down with carbs in their diets?

yes? no? sometimes?

[natenator]

so what are your thoughts on hiit cardio for those dieting down with carbs in their diets?

yes? no? sometimes?
I say you can do ti and get away with it on a low carb based diet moreso then you can on a keto diet.

It's the same reason you can't volume train on a keto diet. You set yourself up for failure as you get into a few exercises... body runs out of gas and you'll start dropping blood sugar QUICKLY.

[ubcpower]

I say you can do ti and get away with it on a low carb based diet moreso then you can on a keto diet.

It's the same reason you can't volume train on a keto diet. You set yourself up for failure as you get into a few exercises... body runs out of gas and you'll start dropping blood sugar QUICKLY.

but even so , with carbs in the diet, with HIT cardio would you not be pulling in various types of fuel sources: gyclogen stores, stored fat and amino acids (from muscle). This is what scares me about it, because regardless you are still low calorie. Whereas low intensity you're pretty much guaranteed your primary source of fuel is fat?

[natenator]

but even so , with carbs in the diet, with HIT cardio would you not be pulling in various types of fuel sources: gyclogen stores, stored fat and amino acids (from muscle). This is what scares me about it, because regardless you are still low calorie. Whereas low intensity you're pretty much guaranteed your primary source of fuel is fat?
I'd tend to agree with that but I am certainly no expert on the topic