The Deepest Depths of Depravity

[PdH]

LIMA (Reuters) - Peruvian police said on Thursday they had broken up a gang that allegedly killed dozens of people and sold their fat to buyers who used it to make cosmetics.

Four Peruvians were arrested on suspicion of kidnapping, murder and trafficking in human fat.

The group stored the fat it collected in used soda and water bottles, which police showed reporters.

"We have people detained who have declared and stated how they murdered people with the aim being to extract their fat in rudimentary labs and sell it," said Police Commander Angel Toldeo.

In addition to those taken into custody, police said they were searching for others who bought fat from the gang or might have worked with it.

Remains from some of the victims were found at a rural house in the region of Huanuco where the group worked, according police video.

Police said they were investigating 60 disappearances in the area that might be linked to the gang.

The investigation started this month after police heard about a shipment of fat that arrived in Lima by bus from Peru's mountains.

[tiramisu]

This brings new meaning to life being cheap. Hard to believe.

[waderow]

you think they targeted obese people?

[PdH]

you think they targeted obese people?

That would be the most profitable.

[gicantor]

****ing humans sicken me.

[Delt King]

What the hell are you going to do with human fat?

cook up some ribs with it?

i just don't understand.:confused:

[AlladdinSane]

...and people still believe in a god. Amazing.

[marino]

What the hell are you going to do with human fat?

cook up some ribs with it?

i just don't understand.:confused:

Remember the movie "Fight Club" go make some soap

[natenator]

...and people still believe in a god. Amazing.
+1

[RagingRandy]

...and people still believe in a god. Amazing.

I do not see the correlation.

[MuSuLPhReAk]

The story sounds like a horror movie.

[l6873]

These ****ers are worse.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dnepropetrovsk_maniacs

[gicantor]

I do not see the correlation.

I think their saying if there was a god, this shit wouldn't be happening.

[RagingRandy]

^^^^^ I suspect too, but why would you come to such a conclusion? Is God there to provide you with a perfect Utopia? In order create such an order he would need to remove free will. Are you willing to give up your ability to choose, essentially living as a mindless being?

[gicantor]

^^^^^ I suspect too, but why would you come to such a conclusion? Is God there to provide you with a perfect Utopia? In order create such an order he would need to remove free will. Are you willing to give up your ability to choose, essentially living as a mindless being?

I don't know what to tell ya. Personally I'm an atheist. But if there is a god, I'd be happy if he would just strike down all evil. Murders, rapist, molesters.

[BBbox]

^^ where do you draw the line then though? "all evil" does that mean anyone whos hurt another person? so anyone whos cheated... beat someone up... lied... stolen... thered be noone left

[gicantor]

^^ where do you draw the line then though? "all evil" does that mean anyone whos hurt another person? so anyone whos cheated... beat someone up... lied... stolen... thered be noone left

That would be at "gods" discretion I guess. Not ours.

[waderow]

if there is a God, and we are Gods children, there is no way he could let us kill ourselves in the manner in which we do.... Especially if we were created in his image. There is no God.

[Van Zan]

LIMA (Reuters) - Peruvian police said on Thursday they had broken up a gang that allegedly killed dozens of people and sold their fat to buyers who used it to make cosmetics.

Four Peruvians were arrested on suspicion of kidnapping, murder and trafficking in human fat.

The group stored the fat it collected in used soda and water bottles, which police showed reporters.

"We have people detained who have declared and stated how they murdered people with the aim being to extract their fat in rudimentary labs and sell it," said Police Commander Angel Toldeo.

In addition to those taken into custody, police said they were searching for others who bought fat from the gang or might have worked with it.

Remains from some of the victims were found at a rural house in the region of Huanuco where the group worked, according police video.

Police said they were investigating 60 disappearances in the area that might be linked to the gang.

The investigation started this month after police heard about a shipment of fat that arrived in Lima by bus from Peru's mountains.


its was sold for 15K per gallon to cosmetic industry in Europe

[waderow]

its was sold for 15K per gallon to cosmetic industry in Europe

hmmmmmm

So I could get about $300K for cheese and his family?


hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm mmmmmmm

[AlladdinSane]

if there is a God, and we are Gods children, there is no way he could let us kill ourselves in the manner in which we do.... Especially if we were created in his image. There is no God.

Correct.

[tiramisu]

15k per gallon of human fat. I've met quite a few that would be worth an easy 50k.
I can see the thought process. If you lined up some organ transplant clinics and a few chinese restaurants you could have a pretty complete human rendering business.

[RagingRandy]

if there is a God, and we are Gods children, there is no way he could let us kill ourselves in the manner in which we do.... Especially if we were created in his image. There is no God.

I still do not see any logic in this. You are making presumptions about the mind of God. If there is such a being, and I believe there is, there is no way for our mortal mind to fully understand it.

[AlladdinSane]

I still do not see any logic in this. You are making presumptions about the mind of God. If there is such a being, and I believe there is, there is no way for our mortal mind to fully understand it.

And I don't see the logic in believing that a talking snake told the first 2 people alive (formed of dust and an extra rib, no less) to eat a poisonous apple ruining all of humanity (which is has only been around less than 10 thousand years, right?). Ridiculous.

Anyways, if we were created in "His" image, as the bible states, then we'd have a pretty good perspective on what goes on in the mind of "God".

[CanadianIron]

Being created in his "image" doesnt mean we are clones of God. I think it just means we are semi-intelligent beings, slightly "higher" than the beasts.

As for why evil rules... God granted free will, gave us the power to completely screw each other, all evil in the world is a reflection of the lack of God in the world. Gods only presence in the world is through people. He doesnt grant divine intervetion and protection. His gift was Jesus Christ. Our world is shit by our own free will. North America is what it is today because of the strong moral based planted by the christians that settled this land, and its eroding fast to this day.

[CanadianIron]

As for deepest depths of depravity, atleast they had a reason. I dont see how this is even close to a guy killing prostitutes to feed his pigs or pedo's killing childred to get off... we have worse sickos here than this. See "Child Porn" and "Child rape videos", its huge here.

[AlladdinSane]

Good to see you glaze right over the talking snake bit.

[PdH]

As for deepest depths of depravity, atleast they had a reason. I dont see how this is even close to a guy killing prostitutes to feed his pigs or pedo's killing childred to get off... we have worse sickos here than this. See "Child Porn" and "Child rape videos", its huge here.

There's plenty of room for all in those deep depths. My post isn't based on some scale of culpability.

[Chaps]

...and people still believe in a god. Amazing.

X2

[Chaps]

As for deepest depths of depravity, atleast they had a reason. I dont see how this is even close to a guy killing prostitutes to feed his pigs or pedo's killing childred to get off... we have worse sickos here than this. See "Child Porn" and "Child rape videos", its huge here.

Do you realize how many child rapists and murderers have been sheltered and protected by the church's?

[AlladdinSane]

cch, I'm not an advocate of "The Big Bang" theory necessarily, but the burden of proof is on the religious to provide proof that there is a god (or God), not on me to provide that there isn't one.

And if the "Goddies" can believe that God never had a beginning, I can believe that the infinite universe also never had a beginning.

[Beachmuscle]

its was sold for 15K per gallon to cosmetic industry in Europe

So the cosmetic companies that bought the human fat knew what they were buying?

[waderow]

when I see obese fat asses now, all I see is $$$

am i evil?

[RagingRandy]

And I don't see the logic in believing that a talking snake told the first 2 people alive (formed of dust and an extra rib, no less) to eat a poisonous apple ruining all of humanity (which is has only been around less than 10 thousand years, right?). Ridiculous.

Anyways, if we were created in "His" image, as the bible states, then we'd have a pretty good perspective on what goes on in the mind of "God".

OK....no glazing over it. First you have your facts wrong. It was not an apple and was not poisonous to be sure. Maybe you are thinking of Snow White. Regardless, the offense was not simply partaking (eating) the fruit but disobedience to God. God stated that they could have anything in the garden they wanted except for that one thing. In the end that is what they desired. They desired it more than a relationship with their creator, God. In essence they made the choice to separate themselves from God. This is the same choice we are given today.

The meaning of "image" was covered but it does not mean we are mini-gods. It means that we have the same eternal spirit within us. God created many animals, beings of you will. But only of man is it said that he breathed in the breath of life and that we were created in his image.

As for the age of the earth, though I am no expert I do see an issue with the fact that the commonly held theories can not be questioned or you are ridiculed. It seems that is the same as scientists or others saying is the problem with religion. Theories of evolution change quite often. I remember reading recently that there is a theory that is becoming popular that apes descended from man. Seems someone has issues to deal with before they sell their theories as fact.

[CanadianIron]

So the cosmetic companies that bought the human fat knew what they were buying?

Probably, but its probably normal for them to do it. Its probably taken from organ donors or something.

[CanadianIron]

cch, I'm not an advocate of "The Big Bang" theory necessarily, but the burden of proof is on the religious to provide proof that there is a god (or God), not on me to provide that there isn't one.

And if the "Goddies" can believe that God never had a beginning, I can believe that the infinite universe also never had a beginning.


The burden of proof is on no one, you have every opportunity to live and die without choosing to believe anything.... however, the people who live without eternal conciquence are the ones cutting people up. TRUE christians are generally good people. These popes and bishops that molest little boys are brought up to believe in a religion and they dont accept the true beliefs and take them to heart, they're just athiests trying to impress their fathers. Generally people who believe in heaven and hell watch themselves and treat others with dignity, its amazing what a bit of God fear can do.

[AlladdinSane]

OK....no glazing over it. First you have your facts wrong. It was not an apple and was not poisonous to be sure. Maybe you are thinking of Snow White. Regardless, the offense was not simply partaking (eating) the fruit but disobedience to God. God stated that they could have anything in the garden they wanted except for that one thing. In the end that is what they desired. They desired it more than a relationship with their creator, God. In essence they made the choice to separate themselves from God. This is the same choice we are given today.

The meaning of "image" was covered but it does not mean we are mini-gods. It means that we have the same eternal spirit within us. God created many animals, beings of you will. But only of man is it said that he breathed in the breath of life and that we were created in his image.

As for the age of the earth, though I am no expert I do see an issue with the fact that the commonly held theories can not be questioned or you are ridiculed. It seems that is the same as scientists or others saying is the problem with religion. Theories of evolution change quite often. I remember reading recently that there is a theory that is becoming popular that apes descended from man. Seems someone has issues to deal with before they sell their theories as fact.

I don't have my facts wrong. I know the deal. I've studied for 20+ years. I simply summarized in an asshole-ish way. I get that it was the principle of the eating of the fruit of the "tree of the knowledge of good and bad" which was the only fruit that was forbidden in the garden. Now i can see wiping out the criminals, but their children and their children's children? Ridiculous.

And the talking snake? C'mon. Please tell me you're smarter than this. To be scared of a story about a boogy-man that has been passed down the line for thousands of years is... ridiculous.

[AlladdinSane]

The burden of proof is on no one, you have every opportunity to live and die without choosing to believe anything.... however, the people who live without eternal conciquence are the ones cutting people up. TRUE christians are generally good people. These popes and bishops that molest little boys are brought up to believe in a religion and they dont accept the true beliefs and take them to heart, they're just athiests trying to impress their fathers. Generally people who believe in heaven and hell watch themselves and treat others with dignity, its amazing what a bit of God fear can do.

You are correct that a proof is not required to carry on in life, but in an argument (discussion, if you will, where two sides argue a point) a proof is required. In this argument, the burden of that proof is on the "Goddies". If you don't think so, then excuse yourself from the argument.

[waderow]

snow white was another great STORY. Not as old and well known as the Bible, but close.

Both very good fictions....

[AlladdinSane]

First off...not an "arguement" ..rather a discussion.



"...but in an argument (discussion, if you will, where two sides argue a point)..."

I'm not heated at all, and I don't think you or CI are either, but we are still arguing for our points in this discussion making it an argument.








There is no God.

[AlladdinSane]

Damn me and my slow editing ways! LOL.

While I was in there you replied. Sorry!

[gicantor]

The burden of proof is on no one, you have every opportunity to live and die without choosing to believe anything.... however, the people who live without eternal conciquence are the ones cutting people up. TRUE christians are generally good people. These popes and bishops that molest little boys are brought up to believe in a religion and they dont accept the true beliefs and take them to heart, they're just athiests trying to impress their fathers. Generally people who believe in heaven and hell watch themselves and treat others with dignity, its amazing what a bit of God fear can do.

You make it sound like people need to believe in god to be a good person. Which is bullshit. As I've stated before I don't believe in god. I don't fear a god. You don't see me running around cutting people up. I don't need a god telling me what to do, Good from bad, Right from wrong. I don't need someone to turn to in my times of weakness. Morals are what make a good person, not religion. Religion is nothing more than a business. But thats just my opinion.

[PdH]

In order for reality as we know it exist a form of background intelligence is required. We observe this in any form of matter as well as in the non-material. Thus, there is order and certain laws (gravity,etc) that can't be refuted. Order denotes intelligence, at least as we understand it. Can intelligence exist without a source to which we refer as God?Without such a source, there is only chaos, which seems to be somewhat contradictory to the formation of ordered intelligence.

[AlladdinSane]

:) I respect your choice to be atheist. I know especially in troubled times (ie: when you lose a loved one, any tragic incident, or looking at the world in general), most will say "there is no God" or "if there is a God why would He do such things?". Some will say karma, some will say fate, some will say everything happens for a reason. But to daft it down to the bare simplicity... I ask this... What would it hurt to simply believe enough in God to have Him as a safety? Meaning!.. Yes, stick to your ways, do as you please... but really what would it hurt to accept Him into your heart just incase He was real? You don't know when you'll die, but it's an assured thing.. that's why they call them accidents. Or if you're a believer, you never know when the Rapture will occur.. especially since all the biblical theology is coming true these days. I'm just saying you don't have the answers and neither do I.. But believing in something is better then nothing! Atleast it's a chance. If I'm wrong, hey! I guess I'll just be another core in the ground.. but if you're wrong it sounds like hell can be an awful place!

Right... But then you'd have God looking into your heart at the end and seeing the selfish reason behind your "acceptance" of him as a savior and go to hell anyways.

The way I see it is this: Given the evidence and the maniacal way God's name has been used to do mostly evil over the centuries (this includes Old Testament) I cannot get onboard. I will still live as a great person, "loving my neighbor as myself" if you will.

Now if there actually is a God, he will see that I've done my leg-work, looked at the horrible state of "humanity" and used my brain that He has blessed me with ask the hard questions, and to make the choices that I've made to not be a mindless follower with no malice towards Him. He will see that I am a good person and He will have to respect me for this and will reward me.

[AlladdinSane]

I never said God had maniacal ways. I did say his name was used to do evil, though.

Killing all the men and children and raping the women of a conquered nation (as per numerous OT recordings) is "beneficial discipline"? C'mon. You know better.

I refuse to believe something that is illogical, has such a sordid, disgusting history, and has no basis in reality. If there is a God, he will respect my course of action based on these evidences.

[CanadianIron]

I never said God had maniacal ways. I did say his name was used to do evil, though.

Killing all the men and children and raping the women of a conquered nation (as per numerous OT recordings) is "beneficial discipline"? C'mon. You know better.

I refuse to believe something that is illogical, has such a sordid, disgusting history, and has no basis in reality. If there is a God, he will respect my course of action based on these evidences.

I dont think God ever allowed his people to rape the women of conquered nations, but I could be wrong.

God doesnt care what any of us do, he will forgive even the darkest sinner, all he asks is for recognition and acceptance. TRUE acceptance. Anyone who truly accepts that God exists and that Christ died for them will live differently. Not like someone who does whatever they want and uses God as a fall back...

If you accept morals and decency and accept it as "A good way to live life" and you regect that there is a God, you can't expect him to reward you.

I think the only way you will ever find real answers is if you search openly and look internally for the answers without turning to every person out there with an opinion. Look at the world, look at your own life and make decisions for yourself with the evidense you have. Dont expect people on a body building forum to answer lifes toughest questions for your own rationing. If you can look at the world, the good, the evil and still say "There is no God".. then thats your decision and live by it.

[AlladdinSane]

I don't expect a reward from him anymore than I expect a reward from Gandalf or Luke Skywalker.

All I meant was that the God that people talk about and read about is forgiving and if he can see that effort was made to believe in Him and accept Him into the heart, that would be taken into consideration at the end.

[Talo]

Everyone should just live there life as best as they can. Love one another and treat them the way you want to be treated , the world could be a better place then.

I was born and raised catholic , but as I get older I start to see life in a different way.....this doen't mean I don't believe either.

[Chaps]

This thread reminds me of a favourite book of mine which is great reading by the way it's called "God Is Not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything " by christopher hitchens and good read for everyone, exposes alot of dirt of every religion.

[Gilmour]

I still do not see any logic in this. You are making presumptions about the mind of God. If there is such a being, and I believe there is, there is no way for our mortal mind to fully understand it.
You should be discussing this with Americans. Usually only they are stupid enough to contemplate such a notion. :beat

[AlladdinSane]

Hitler could of said he went about his business in "God's" name, it doesn't make it true. We were blessed with free will, unfortunately some take it to negative extremes but you can't blame God for their actions.

As per the actions solely done by God, not of man, I believe they were all of good purpose. Never in the bible did He have someone rapped. Nor did He have them wrongfully killed. All was done for reason. When the city of Sodom and Gomorrah was destroyed or even the flood which swept the earth, it was all to better civilization.

As per the storybook:

He had angels "go undercover" as strangers in S & G as a test. Lot welcomed them into his home and "passed the test" when he threw his daughters outside to be raped by the city instead of the strangers they were demanding. Genesis 19:6-8


Numbers 31:17-18
Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.


Deuteronomy 22:28-29
If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, he shall pay the girl's father fifty shekels of silver.


Numbers 31:7-18)
They attacked Midian just as the LORD had commanded Moses, and they killed all the men. All five of the Midianite kings – Evi, Rekem, Zur, Hur, and Reba – died in the battle. They also killed Balaam son of Beor with the sword. Then the Israelite army captured the Midianite women and children and seized their cattle and flocks and all their wealth as plunder. They burned all the towns and villages where the Midianites had lived. After they had gathered the plunder and captives, both people and animals, they brought them all to Moses and Eleazar the priest, and to the whole community of Israel, which was camped on the plains of Moab beside the Jordan River, across from Jericho.

Moses, Eleazar the priest, and all the leaders of the people went to meet them outside the camp. But Moses was furious with all the military commanders who had returned from the battle. "Why have you let all the women live?" he demanded. "These are the very ones who followed Balaam's advice and caused the people of Israel to rebel against the LORD at Mount Peor. They are the ones who caused the plague to strike the LORD's people. Now kill all the boys and all the women who have slept with a man. Only the young girls who are virgins may live; you may keep them for yourselves.

(Zechariah 14:1-2)
Lo, a day shall come for the Lord when the spoils shall be divided in your midst. And I will gather all the nations against Jerusalem for battle: the city shall be taken, houses plundered, women ravished.

[RagingRandy]

snow white was another great STORY. Not as old and well known as the Bible, but close.

Both very good fictions....

Oh so witty....

[Talo]

Numbers 31:17-18
Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.


Deuteronomy 22:28-29
If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, he shall pay the girl's father fifty shekels of silver

Awww , the good old days :D

[waderow]

Oh so witty....

:) thanks bro

[AlladdinSane]

See ya!

[Gilmour]

Oh so witty....
And the existence of the Bible, which has been re-written numerous times, is non fiction because?

[AlladdinSane]

And the existence of the Bible, which has been re-written numerous times, is non fiction because?

RR is a great guy on the site.

...buuuut he'll never have a good backing argument for any religious questions. He's a "blind-faither". No offense, RR.

[juced_porkchop]

I do not see the correlation.

nether d i!!
free will is what happend and greed.

you cant base that on there being or not being a god.
to do so is just stupid.

[juced_porkchop]

And I don't see the logic in believing that a talking snake told the first 2 people alive (formed of dust and an extra rib, no less) to eat a poisonous apple ruining all of humanity (which is has only been around less than 10 thousand years, right?). Ridiculous.

Anyways, if we were created in "His" image, as the bible states, then we'd have a pretty good perspective on what goes on in the mind of "God".

god did not write the bible!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
man did i beleave the "holy bibe" is bullshit! most of it anyway.
I beleave in got.

but to me god is not some fat guy on a f-ing cloud.

[juced_porkchop]

I don't have my facts wrong. I know the deal. I've studied for 20+ years. I simply summarized in an asshole-ish way. I get that it was the principle of the eating of the fruit of the "tree of the knowledge of good and bad" which was the only fruit that was forbidden in the garden. Now i can see wiping out the criminals, but their children and their children's children? Ridiculous.

And the talking snake? C'mon. Please tell me you're smarter than this. To be scared of a story about a boogy-man that has been passed down the line for thousands of years is... ridiculous.

again peopel wrote this not god!
talkign snake adem and eve.. explanations to what they could nto explain at the time .

that it.

i beleave in evolution and god.
the lable "GOD" IS here and around use.

people wrote the book of god/bible.
GOD did not.
they ay have felt things and seen things but its been bucherd to the point of not meaing shit half the time.
vergine marry? well fo back 1000 years vergine did not mean what it do today.
before "IN ANOTHER LANG BY THE WAY" it ment pure! as in you know a good person , pure of sole.
now everyone thinks god make her preggo and its his kids!?!?
where all his kids.

religion was a way of explainng god.
now its more of a control and peopel pussh it for wht they do liek for eg. "GOD GAVE ME THIS LAND, THIS LAND IS MINE !!"
and then the war starts.

[Chaps]

If you can take the time to read a book of atheism and negativity toward God would you take the equal time to sit with a pastor or read a bible track for the positive? There's "dirt" in everything, politics, work, health care what have you.. but take the people out and just leave God, you're at the bare simplicity of faith, a yes or no question.

The bible is a book of fictional stories, i'm glad to see more and more people waking up to this realization. I'm a very positive person i believe people should do what they want as long as they do not hurt themselves or other's

[RagingRandy]

RR is a great guy on the site.

...buuuut he'll never have a good backing argument for any religious questions. He's a "blind-faither". No offense, RR.

Thanks for the compliment. Buuut, faith by it's nature is blind, so to speak. We all have things we do not fully understand but accept. For instance, the origin of the universe has never been explained by scientist but many accept what they theorize as fact. This too is faith. We all exhibit faith in our daily life. To say that only people who believe in God rely on faith would not be factual.

As for answers, I find satisfaction in the answers I have found through study and logic. Others will form other opinions about things presented to them. We are all different people with different experiences that have a bearing on what we believe.

I am not here to change anyone's mind. I do not have the power to do so. If I have caused someone to think, that is the best I can ask for.

[RagingRandy]

The bible is a book of fictional stories, i'm glad to see more and more people waking up to this realization. I'm a very positive person i believe people should do what they want as long as they do not hurt themselves or other's

Actually the Bible has been proven correct time and time again through archeology. Being a positive person is great. I wish more people were. However, what makes being positive right? What is your "positive and negative" based on? What if what you believe is "positive and negative" conflicts with what anothers perception is? As a real world scenario, some believe physically disciplining children is a good (positive)thing. Others however believe that it is a negative (bad) thing in every instance. These are contrary.

[Gilmour]

Actually the Bible has been proven correct time and time again through archeology. Being a positive person is great. I wish more people were. However, what makes being positive right? What is your "positive and negative" based on? What if what you believe is "positive and negative" conflicts with what anothers perception is? As a real world scenario, some believe physically disciplining children is a good (positive)thing. Others however believe that it is a negative (bad) thing in every instance. These are contrary.


The Bible has been proven to be a bunch of fictional stories moreoften than it has been linked to any archeological facts. People who believe that the Bible is fact and not fiction also tend to believe Noah's Arc (lol) has been found (wrong) and that the Shroud of Turin was worn by Jesus(wrong again). It never ends. Blind faith. Good band, shitty stance.

[AlladdinSane]

The Bible has been proven to be a bunch of fictional stories moreoften than it has been linked to any archeological facts. People who believe that the Bible is fact and not fiction also tend to believe Noah's Arc (lol) has been found (wrong) and that the Shroud of Turin was worn by Jesus(wrong again). It never ends. Blind faith. Good band, shitty stance.

Missed you buddy.

[RagingRandy]

Please provide your proof that the Bible has been proven to be fiction. Faith by definition is blind. You could not survive without faith, unless you are omniscience that is.

[AlladdinSane]

Please provide your proof that the Bible has been proven to be fiction. Faith by definition is blind. You could not survive without faith, unless you are omniscience that is.

Burden of proof is actually on you (as previously stated).

[natenator]

Actually the Bible has been proven correct time and time again through archeology. Being a positive person is great. I wish more people were. However, what makes being positive right? What is your "positive and negative" based on? What if what you believe is "positive and negative" conflicts with what anothers perception is? As a real world scenario, some believe physically disciplining children is a good (positive)thing. Others however believe that it is a negative (bad) thing in every instance. These are contrary.
How can you ask others for proof yet not provide any of your own?

[CanadianIron]

Its only burden on us IF we WANT to prove it to you. There is no such thing as a burden of proof... nor can you prove there is a burden of proof.

You can't prove something that requires death to prove... unless you can bring people back from the dead.

[AlladdinSane]

So you can't prove it and thus fail to support your argument.

[CanadianIron]

So you can't prove it and thus fail to support your argument.

2 people can be given the same piece of information and interpret it completely differently. What I concider to be proof to me, is not going to be proof to you.

If something make 80% sense, I can accept it as "True" based on faith, If anyone could prove anything 100%, then we could all be convinced to believe the same thing. The fact that we arent all believing the same thing attests to that.

[AlladdinSane]

It's true.

2+2
Two people look at this problem. One of them sees the solution as 4. One sees it as 5.

One of them is WRONG.

[CanadianIron]

It's true.

2+2
Two people look at this problem. One of them sees the solution as 4. One sees it as 5.

One of them is WRONG.

Its more like 2+X

One sees 4 and one sees 5, and you have to die to see X.

[RagingRandy]

Burden of proof is actually on you (as previously stated).



The Bible has been proven to be a bunch of fictional stories moreoften than it has been linked to any archeological facts.

This is the statement. If it has been proven then there is proof. So, NO the burden of proof is not on me.

[CanadianIron]

If when we die, there is no God... then there is no burden of proof...

If when we die, there IS a God... then there is a burden and having not believed may have consiquenses.

You have to believe there is a burden of proof, if you believe there is a burden, then you believe in an afterlife. If you are athiest then the burden is non existent and therefore impossible to prove.

[AlladdinSane]

Good talkin' to you guys.

When you take off the blindfolds, feel free to get a hold of me if you need help to move on.

[Gilmour]

This is the statement. If it has been proven then there is proof. So, NO the burden of proof is not on me.


Provide proof about anything Jesus or Moses did.

[CanadianIron]

My blind fold comes on and off from time to time, i get scared when I stop accepting God and start living like an animal.

[O-Train]

This is the statement. If it has been proven then there is proof. So, NO the burden of proof is not on me.

Attempt at logic = epic fail

[CanadianIron]

Provide proof about anything Jesus or Moses did.

There are mounds and mounds of physical proof to support a lot of what is spoken of in the bible. No one intelligent disputes it.

We know Christ existed and we know he was killed on a cross, these facts are not disputed by normal people. And the presence of the jewish people in the middle east attests to Moses bringing them there.

[AlladdinSane]

My blind fold comes on and off from time to time, i get scared when I stop accepting God and start living like an animal.

You are an animal. Your brain is bigger and you have opposible thumbs. That's all. I know you want to feel special, but you're not.

[Gilmour]

Please provide your proof that the Bible has been proven to be fiction. Faith by definition is blind. You could not survive without faith, unless you are omniscience that is.


LOL. I can't even touch this one. FACT is that it has been re-written dozens of times. Sound a little suspect to you bro? It is a fact that there are no such things as burning bushes or people who can walk on water or multiply loaves of bread with the snap of their fingers. To think otherwise is just plain retarded.

[RagingRandy]

How can you ask others for proof yet not provide any of your own?

No problem... http://www.facingthechallenge.org/arch2.php

If you need more let me know. Also, if you are helping out in the debate feel free to comment on the quote you referenced in your post.

[CanadianIron]

You are an animal. Your brain is bigger and you have opposible thumbs. I know you want to feel special, but you're not.

Agree to disagree.

[RagingRandy]

Attempt at logic = epic fail

and the fail is where?

[Gilmour]

There are mounds and mounds of physical proof to support a lot of what is spoken of in the bible. No one intelligent disputes it.

We know Christ existed and we know he was killed on a cross, these facts are not disputed by normal people. And the presence of the jewish people in the middle east attests to Moses bringing them there.
LOL. I believe Jesus was a man who was crucified for saying he was sent by God. I don't believe he was the son of a spaceman and he rose from the dead. He didn't make loaves ofbread and wine from water either. He was a nice dude. That is all. Some people followed a dude named Moses around the desert until they stopped in Israel. Wow. I convert now.

[AlladdinSane]

Agree to disagree.

Will do.

Chums?

[CanadianIron]

Will do.

Chums?

Deal.

[Talo]

The truth is NOBODY knows the truth . I don't think anyone (well I'm sure someone) can say that there is nothing else out there.

[CanadianIron]

LOL. I believe Jesus was a man who was crucified for saying he was sent by God. I don't believe he was the son of a spaceman and he rose from the dead. He didn't make loaves ofbread and wine from water either. He was a nice dude. That is all. Some people followed a dude named Moses around the desert until they stopped in Israel. Wow. I convert now.

Conversion generally has to take place internally, my experience has shown me that its pretty much impossible from one person to another to "convert" them.. conversion takes place when people sole search and actually try to talk to God. People find their faith in prayer and through obedience. NOTHING anyone on here can say or do anything to convince anyone of anything. I dont think the internet is a very good tool for converting peoples lives, unless its towards a life of porn viewing.

[RagingRandy]

LOL. I can't even touch this one. FACT is that it has been re-written dozens of times. Sound a little suspect to you bro? It is a fact that there are no such things as burning bushes or people who can walk on water or multiply loaves of bread with the snap of their fingers. To think otherwise is just plain retarded.

I take it you do not have the proof you referred to. Many things thought impossible are now possible. But I can see that your inability to debate respectfully is just, well, plain retarded.

[CanadianIron]

The truth is NOBODY knows the truth . I don't think anyone (well I'm sure someone) can say that there is nothing else out there.

If by "out there" you mean beyond this realm or universe. There are lots of people who think so. They're called athiests.

[natenator]

No problem... http://www.facingthechallenge.org/arch2.php

If you need more let me know. Also, if you are helping out in the debate feel free to comment on the quote you referenced in your post.
which quote?

I am simply playing match keeper. You asked someone for proof of something yet (at the time) did not offer any yourself. Just pointing out that before you ask proof of something maybe you should offer some of your own on that which you are claiming to be true :)

[RagingRandy]

which quote?

I am simply playing match keeper. You asked someone for proof of something yet (at the time) did not offer any yourself. Just pointing out that before you ask proof of something maybe you should offer some of your own on that which you are claiming to be true :)

Yep, we can use someone to keep us honest. Thanks for the help.

[O-Train]

Actually the Bible has been proven correct time and time again through archeology. Being a positive person is great. I wish more people were. However, what makes being positive right? What is your "positive and negative" based on? What if what you believe is "positive and negative" conflicts with what anothers perception is? As a real world scenario, some believe physically disciplining children is a good (positive)thing. Others however believe that it is a negative (bad) thing in every instance. These are contrary.

Writings of a historically accurate nature have absolutely nothing to do with the presence of a higher power.

Why do you guys insist on messing up threads with your misinformed banter? Faith is ignorance in the presence of truth. Besides all of that, what intelligent person would honestly believe that an omnipotent god would judge someone for not believing in them when there is absolutely no evidence of their existence? I only waste my time with this because I was raised Christian so I understand the problem. I understand why people like the idea of being created in the image of an all powerful God. It answers questions, gives people peace of mind and a feeling of purpose in their lives. Sometimes I still pray. Not because I think anyone is listening but because it's just something I'm accustomed to doing. Realize that when it comes to a factual, intellectual conversation that God becomes a very unlikely hypothetical idea. I guess in a way if you believe in the existence of God than God exists. Although only in an abstract "what is real and what isn't" kind of way.

Didn't read the whole thread so I'm not sure how it become a theological debate. People killing other people and stealing their fat is really terrible.

[Gilmour]

I take it you do not have the proof you referred to. Many things thought impossible are now possible. But I can see that your inability to debate respectfully is just, well, plain retarded.
Says the man who believes in a spaceman who sent his son to walk the earth. I give up, you have proven the Bible to be 100% truth. Thanks for the all the facts you have provided me.

[natenator]

spaceman lmao!

[Gilmour]

spaceman lmao!
That is what they believe.

[natenator]

That is what they believe.
I know. Just hilarious. bahahaha

[fitfanatik]

This brings new meaning to life being cheap. Hard to believe.

...no kiddin' ...even cheaper here in these pix.

Warning: Very Graphic

http://www.cameroon-info.net/cmForumNG/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=17328

[kidmode]

Okay. Just finished reading through the thread and I had to put in my two cents.


cch, I'm not an advocate of "The Big Bang" theory necessarily, but the burden of proof is on the religious to provide proof that there is a god (or God), not on me to provide that there isn't one.


I disagree with the whole burden of proof thing. Yes, it is a "christian" duty to spread God's word. But we spread it with the hopes that it will fill an emptiness or to give a hope that there is something more about this life and what comes after death, not to actually prove the existence of God.

That said, I believe there will never ever be completely convincing evidence of God, besides the world we live in and it's extraordinary intricacies. If there was evidence that showed without a doubt there was a god, any god, than faith would have no purpose and that relates back to everything these guy's have being saying about free will.

I've had rough times with my family. I've experienced pain and death and wondered why. The difference is I believe God was with me through those times as a comforter, rather than instigating the pain. I believe there is a Satan just as much as I believe there is a God.

And it's not easy to believe in God, and I don't believe God ever intended it to be. The "easyness" about being a christian is the belief that this short life we have isn't the end. And the horrible things that we see everyday won't go on forever, and people who do these awful things will have their judgment.



And if the "Goddies" can believe that God never had a beginning, I can believe that the infinite universe also never had a beginning.

Even an infinite universe is governed by certain laws. Especially if you think this universe is part of another one. I'm not a physicist in the least, but I don't believe the existence of God is dependent on time having a beginning. Especially if you consider whether or not this universe is a subset of another. That said I know several very intelligent physicists, some atheist and some not.

Allll that said religion is separate from strength training, CBB kicks ass, and AlladdinSane is my home boy. Peace.

[CanadianIron]

^ Good Post.