rant

[waderow]

who here is on the same mind set as me:


find whey for the cheapest price possible, buy it, drink it, and repeat.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

All the marketing and "my whey is better then your whey" is getting old.

spending up to (or more then) $20 per pound is ****ing retarded. Whey is costing more then juice for **** sakes.

You take a clone of Waderow, and waderow 1 takes no-name whey and waderow 2 takes the shiniest ****ing tub of the most hardcore whey in the MD magazine, and with like diet, and like training, and like cycle.... they are going to be the same ****ing waderow at the end of the tub

Am I just completely uneducated and too old school for my own good here?

what I would like to see from suppliers, is cheap whey. Not what Jay uses. Not cold filter microprocessed hydrogygoginized ploycarbonated whey, but just cheap ****ing whey... please

[ianfxmen]

well i always used regular whey .By that i mean not whey isolate but regular whey and i have been digesting it with not problem.would i pay almost double the price for what they dall pure extraordinnary micro refine isolate power xxx whey??? well i have paid once and will never again for me its the same thing and lets say i consume for one year regular whey vs the super duper wey shit will i see a big difference in muscle mass??? i sincerely really dought it:lick

[PdH]

What, you mean shiny labels and polycarbonated lactating peptides don't make me whey (pun intended) bigger? ****. :mad:

[Chunk]

how about an experiment on cbb.com?

or would this not work properly due to everyone being different.

i'd be interested to see a result...at least a semi proof.

3 people on cheap, 3 people on expensive? i'm sure we could find 6 similar people here...and 2 females would be great too.

just an idea.

[Talo]

I agree. I am currently taking a whey / casein mix ( that tastes great ) and I spend no more than $35 for 5lbs .

I feel the same way with all the pre / post drinks out there. Shit , I can buy bulk supplements ( creatine , BA , etc ) for cheap , mix them together and get anout 1 years worth for the same price I would pay for CELLMASS ( or whatever ). I think this just comes with age , because so many younger kids ( no disrespect to anyone ) need to have the NEW supplement or what they see in the mag's.

[PdH]

need to have the NEW supplement or what they see in the mag's.

Mags are nothing but advertising whores.

[natenator]

who here is on the same mind set as me:


find whey for the cheapest price possible, buy it, drink it, and repeat.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

All the marketing and "my whey is better then your whey" is getting old.

spending up to (or more then) $20 per pound is ****ing retarded. Whey is costing more then juice for **** sakes.

You take a clone of Waderow, and waderow 1 takes no-name whey and waderow 2 takes the shiniest ****ing tub of the most hardcore whey in the MD magazine, and with like diet, and like training, and like cycle.... they are going to be the same ****ing waderow at the end of the tub

Am I just completely uneducated and too old school for my own good here?

what I would like to see from suppliers, is cheap whey. Not what Jay uses. Not cold filter microprocessed hydrogygoginized ploycarbonated whey, but just cheap ****ing whey... please
Having used cheap ****ing whey and having used better quality whey I willl buy better quality whey. Cheap shit ****s with my stomach

[jsv22]

find whey for the cheapest price possible, buy it, drink it, and repeat.



i'm 100% with you on this one, a little bit more fat/fillers/lactose doesn't bother me at all.

i look for the cheapest but OK tasting stuff...

[#8]

cheap whey causes me to bloat badly. i find with an isolate i am hungry within 30 minutes of taking it, where a concentrate or blend leaves me feeling full and bloated and just generally sloppy.

[Spyder122]

Cheap plain regular whey gives me bad gas. Isolate doesn't. So for my girlfriend's sake I'll go out of my whey and get the isolate.

[Big D]

dont want to shit on our sponsors here , but I get my protein off of snd. dymatize whey isolate, its says its isolate but I think its more of a blend.



its pretty cheap and its free shipping.

[talon05]

I have to agree on some point but i love my BSN desert blend it is delicious........

[tiramisu]

Mostly yes... but when I'm trying to lose weight I shop for isolate and buy in bulk.

[Ritch]

I pretty much agree with your post Waderow. Luckily there`s a company now that offers what you`re looking for. TS! I mean $35 for 5 lbs of protein with iso as the main ingredient is pretty hard to beat.

[Danger]

I agree the problem is im pretty picky about taste I just cannot force down some brands of whey, I also find the cheaper brands tend to use sweetners that kinda **** with my stomach.

I really dont love paying $55 for 5lbs of whey, but at least I know im gonna be able to eat the whole 5lbs and I wont have to stop after 2lbs cuz the taste makes me gag.

[Talo]

I pretty much agree with your post Waderow. Luckily there`s a company now that offers what you`re looking for. TS! I mean $35 for 5 lbs of protein with iso as the main ingredient is pretty hard to beat.

That is a great deal !

[_Ragnar_]

I love my TS isolate. Especially with the 15lbs for 120 bucks sale.

[_Z_]

I love my TS isolate. Especially with the 15lbs for 120 bucks sale.


just placed an order of that the other night, couldn't resist lol

[dremen]

Having used cheap ****ing whey and having used better quality whey I willl buy better quality whey. Cheap shit ****s with my stomach

x2

If my post workout shake has concentrate in it i get bloated and gassy as hell for hours, but 100% iso from sixstar @30bucks for 2 pounds does me great anytime of the day.

Iso is worth the money any day IMHO.

[kloan]

plain whey all the way.. no bloating, gas, chest pains, etc.. also happens to be the cheapest. trueprotein.com <- hey i can post their url now cuz they're a sponsor! :D

recession blend.. ends up being like $26/5lbs

[ironwill]

I like a better quality whey for sure......I get bad gas and bad indigestion off of low quality whey....I also like it when it mixes properly with a few shakes in a cup, as many of my meals when im busy etc, come from them now and again.......
Trueprotein .com has a big banner up top, great selection to your door....
Great quality and mixing...crazy flavors....

[waderow]

remember years ago??

even the best whey didnt mix well.
now the cheapo shit at most has a few floaters, and in all honestly, those floaters are nice little chewy treats LOL

As far as gas, I think it depends on the brand of cheap stuff. Some have different fillers so I dont hink all cheap brands will affect you.

[natenator]

remember years ago??

even the best whey didnt mix well.
now the cheapo shit at most has a few floaters, and in all honestly, those floaters are nice little chewy treats LOL

As far as gas, I think it depends on the brand of cheap stuff. Some have different fillers so I dont hink all cheap brands will affect you.
well I am not going to go through all the cheap ones to find one that doesn't bother me. I have an iso that tastes awesome and doesn't rape my stomach and I can easily afford it over the cheap shit as to not effect my standard of living. I will remain with my isolate :D

[Doggcrapp]

Waderow....I am a custom manufacturer for other supplement companies. I also buy all forms of whey directly from the dairies themselves or their direct mediary who packages it. Ive tested out too many whey's over the years to even remember them all. Here is the problem. There is no such thing as a 100% whey isolate. Anybody who says they have one or tells you that are being untruthful. An Isolate (should be) above 90% protein percentage. Most very good whey isolates are 90 to 93%. The highest Ive ever seen in 7 years was a batch of Ion Exchange that came back at 96%. I say "should be" above in bold, because there are straight out shysters in this industry. Straight out. People who are selling isolates which are really concentrates and people selling isolates that are even below the normal quality you need to have as a concentrate..
A whey protein concentrate that is worthy is always about 80% protein percentage. WPC is also the cheapest of the proteins, meaning the people that are taking your ass to the cleaners are putting concentrates into their jugs and selling it as isolates. Now this is where it gets really bad. Ive had 2 companies try to come to me to buy their whey proteins over the years in which i tested them out and I could not get over how they slept at night. One of those tested out at 58%...yes 58 freaking %! You could take a scoop of sawdust and get more out of it. We told that guy to take a hike. Next thing I find out thru the grapevine is 2 major companies selling that protien powder!!!! One of them was so bold they did it openly and sold bulk on Ebay. I couldnt believe it. The stomach upset of that protein must of been incredible.......so you need to think this out a little bit.....you might think you are getting a steal on something thats labeled as whey.....but 3 scoops of that very whey you are taking might be less viable protein than 2 scoops a very legit whey isolate........so in a 2 pound containor with 15 scoops per pound...you are actually getting maybe 10 servings compared to 14-15 servings for a good isolate in the same size jug....something to think about.
When you see something on the shelf that says "100% whey" the label only has to list the contents in order as it is regarding what ingredients are in the product.
So something might say "100% whey protein blend" and the ingredients list says "whey protein concentrate, whey protien microfiltration, whey protein cross flow, and hydrolyzed."
Do you know what that could mean? Most people would think "oh im getting 25%, 25%, 25%, 25%......no you most likely are getting predominantly WPC (cheapest and least protein percentage and least viable/assim protein on a volume to volume basis), and a pinch between the fingers of micro, CF, and hydro. Scamming at its finest.
The "any old whey will do" notion is kind of like saying "Hey they both cost 18 bucks so whats the difference between 10 ounces of Filet Mignon and 10 ounces of grizzle with A1 sauce on it?".....there actually is a major difference as it pertains to your bodybuilding efforts.

[baza]

I've repeated that dozens of times on here. Many said no way companies would do those kinds of things lol.

[Iwant2Grow]

plain whey all the way.. no bloating, gas, chest pains, etc.. also happens to be the cheapest. trueprotein.com <- hey i can post their url now cuz they're a sponsor! :D

recession blend.. ends up being like $26/5lbs

True Protien is awesome delivers right to my door no hassel EXCELLENT PRICES no hidden duty fees ever these guys ****ing rock


Waderow....I am a custom manufacturer for other supplement companies. I also buy all forms of whey directly from the dairies themselves or their direct mediary who packages it. Ive tested out too many whey's over the years to even remember them all. Here is the problem. There is no such thing as a 100% whey isolate. Anybody who says they have one or tells you that are being untruthful. An Isolate (should be) above 90% protein percentage. Most very good whey isolates are 90 to 93%. The highest Ive ever seen in 7 years was a batch of Ion Exchange that came back at 96%. I say "should be" above in bold, because there are straight out shysters in this industry. Straight out. People who are selling isolates which are really concentrates and people selling isolates that are even below the normal quality you need to have as a concentrate..
A whey protein concentrate that is worthy is always about 80% protein percentage. WPC is also the cheapest of the proteins, meaning the people that are taking your ass to the cleaners are putting concentrates into their jugs and selling it as isolates. Now this is where it gets really bad. Ive had 2 companies try to come to me to buy their whey proteins over the years in which i tested them out and I could not get over how they slept at night. One of those tested out at 58%...yes 58 freaking %! You could take a scoop of sawdust and get more out of it. We told that guy to take a hike. Next thing I find out thru the grapevine is 2 major companies selling that protien powder!!!! One of them was so bold they did it openly and sold bulk on Ebay. I couldnt believe it. The stomach upset of that protein must of been incredible.......so you need to think this out a little bit.....you might think you are getting a steal on something thats labeled as whey.....but 3 scoops of that very whey you are taking might be less viable protein than 2 scoops a very legit whey isolate........so in a 2 pound containor with 15 scoops per pound...you are actually getting maybe 10 servings compared to 14-15 servings for a good isolate in the same size jug....something to think about.
When you see something on the shelf that says "100% whey" the label only has to list the contents in order as it is regarding what ingredients are in the product.
So something might say "100% whey protein blend" and the ingredients list says "whey protein concentrate, whey protien microfiltration, whey protein cross flow, and hydrolyzed."
Do you know what that could mean? Most people would think "oh im getting 25%, 25%, 25%, 25%......no you most likely are getting predominantly WPC (cheapest and least protein percentage and least viable/assim protein on a volume to volume basis), and a pinch between the fingers of micro, CF, and hydro. Scamming at its finest.
The "any old whey will do" notion is kind of like saying "Hey they both cost 18 bucks so whats the difference between 10 ounces of Filet Mignon and 10 ounces of grizzle with A1 sauce on it?".....there actually is a major difference as it pertains to your bodybuilding efforts.


Awesome to have you here DC and i couldn't have said that better myself
right ****ing on

True Protien FTW!

[waderow]

so my cheap whey that says 25g per scoop is only 12.5g?

[kloan]

that would suck

[z83]

hmmmm, i'm confused now

[natenator]

hmmmm, i'm confused now
well what are you confused about? Telling us might help us be able to help to unconfuse you.

[Big D]

great post Doggcrapp

[z83]

well what are you confused about? Telling us might help us be able to help to unconfuse you.

will you reply to EVERY ****ing post I do ?

Since I agreed to this post (http://www.canadabodybuilding.com/forums/showpost.php?p=286365&postcount=18), you try to reply/argue to almost everything I write

Isn't there an ignore list ? add me

[Talo]

Isn't there an ignore list ? add me

I think you can add him. If he had to add everyone that wanted him to , he would have nothing to read :)

[nisser]

that would suck

not to mention illegal. % are useless. I never care for them. It's the protein peer scoop per tub that matters.

[Iwant2Grow]

not to mention illegal. % are useless. I never care for them. It's the protein peer scoop per tub that matters.


I don't agree the amount of protein per scoop looks nice but what about the quality of that protein
Think you missed the point of DCs post bro, check it out

[nisser]

No, I got his point and I don't believe it. No protein out there I've ever tried is 58%. You can tell by the scoop size and the protein in it.

[Iwant2Grow]

No, I got his point and I don't believe it. No protein out there I've ever tried is 58%. You can tell by the scoop size and the protein in it.


lols bro there is huge differences in the same products, one Whey pro concentrate is not the same as the next
let alone isolates the amount of protein you body can receive from your scoop is the not same even if both say 30g scoop and 24grams of protein

and your going to argue with DC , that your opinion and you can have it bro .

[Talo]

No, I got his point and I don't believe it. No protein out there I've ever tried is 58%. You can tell by the scoop size and the protein in it.


I don't think you can tell just by looking at it and that's the thing with this you have to be able to trust the company you buy from .

Personally I only use protein powder if I absolutely have to. Whole foods can't be beat.

[buildinthaskinnys]

The only whey (pun intended) that you can tell how much protein is actually in the powder is to have it tested in a lab, and with the amount of companys out there selling it you would have to be rich to find out what everybody is selling, the best way to protect yourself would be to stay away from concentrates because the range of quality varies so much, I think anywhere from 25 - 85 % protein by weight and stick to a reputable company that has been around for some time not some fly by night brand. I personally have quit buying concentrates, I will be buying isolates only from now on, no more bloating, rancid shits, or poor mixability for this brother.

[nisser]

Well that obviously goes without saying. I think the concept of someone as advanced as anyone on this board buying 58% whey concentrate is absurd. We all know better and we stick to the good reputable companies. Besides the costco isolate, I've always used concentrate. Sure I've hit some bad brands that gave me irritability but there's plenty of good affordable ones out there.

While I'm sure it does happen, it probably only happens to middle-aged women and 120lb teen boys working at Timmy's on the weekend.

[Doggcrapp]

Well that obviously goes without saying. I think the concept of someone as advanced as anyone on this board buying 58% whey concentrate is absurd. We all know better and we stick to the good reputable companies. Besides the costco isolate, I've always used concentrate. Sure I've hit some bad brands that gave me irritability but there's plenty of good affordable ones out there.

While I'm sure it does happen, it probably only happens to middle-aged women and 120lb teen boys working at Timmy's on the weekend.

Nisser you missed where i said "two very known companies" ended up buying that protien and selling it. I am still confused by what you said about the scoop size and the protein in it.

Whether you fill a 70cc scoop with 58% WPC or 96% Ion its still a full scoop of protein powder that looks predominantly the same.

In the last 2 years when there was a milk shortage, prices on protein powder skyrocketed and there was a shortage of isolates and concentrates, along with Starbucks making an exclusive deal with the main manufacturer of ION....and they collusioned everyone else out (we were all shut out--this since has changed). I buy a tremendous volume of protein (thousands upon multiple of thousands of pounds) to get the prices needed. I have to write well into 6 figure checks (and upwards) on singular types of protein to get that price while someone who buys one pallet at a time of singular protein is getting his price per pound at 3-5 dollars a pound higher than me. When i went to reorder from a main distributor 2 years ago he had a shortage and I asked him how the heck "so and so" is still selling concentrates and isolates (because we are both customers but they are in the top 5 supplement companies in the world sizewise). What did I hear? "Psssst Dante you did not hear this from me but they are buying offspec protein which is protein that we put to the side because it doesnt pass the certificates of analysis and is lacking in various aspects, we usually sell it to non supplement company's for other applications less important than protein powders consumed by the public"...."I can get you offspec protein for this "incredible price" per pound and....".......and I replied "no thats not how we work over here bro....my rep has been built on the saying "highest quality supplements for the absolute lowest prices"....let me know when you are restocked". Him: "its going to be months"...me: "then I will wait and let my customers know we are out of stock for the time being"......and I did.
Meanwhile "millions" (and i can say that "millions" because of the size of this company) of people used offspec protein for a long time and every single person on this board knows that company's name far and wide.
So Nisser my moral of the story is dont always believe in the fancy label and 5 page advertising at 10 thousand dollars per page.....because you must remember that somehow that advertising bill has to be paid.

[natenator]

will you reply to EVERY ****ing post I do ?

Since I agreed to this post (http://www.canadabodybuilding.com/forums/showpost.php?p=286365&postcount=18), you try to reply/argue to almost everything I write

Isn't there an ignore list ? add me
Wow. Get over yourself. I was trying to discover what you were confused about so that some on here (even, perhaps, me) could try and solve your confusion.

[nisser]

Nisser you missed where i said "two very known companies" ended up buying that protien and selling it. I am still confused by what you said about the scoop size and the protein in it.

Whether you fill a 70cc scoop with 58% WPC or 96% Ion its still a full scoop of protein powder that looks predominantly the same.


I understood you perfectly fine and I don't believe you. Call them out. What companies?

edit: To think that a reputable company would buy whey, package it AND NOT TEST IT to make sure it's correct is absolutely ridiculous. I hope no one actually believes you here. I can see UGL gear companies not testing their powders but not ****ing big ass supplement companies out there. They have too much on the line to not spend 5 minutes testing their batches.

Until then, it's just rumors and hearsay. What are you selling?

This reminds of the time when someone on this board said they called costco protein company and they told them that the protein in their product is lower quality. Bullshit. It's probably still on this board in the supplements thread.

[ironwill]

Good post DC, thanks for sharing ........
Nisser, have you tried out trueproteins proteins etc????
If not give it a whirl, thats all it takes and your mixed ready to roll....just a little whirl in a cup........
Try it and then tell us there isnt a definite difference.....;)

[Talo]

TP has some great stuff. I've picked up their WM before

[waderow]

I am going to price out the curdling equipment, filters, ion exchange tower, and a drying tower....

Will also determine the whey content in a grams per litre ratio.

Will then ball park facilities (which I have but nonetheless will look at a cost per ft2), and establish a cost per pound.

[pseclint]

I dunno about you guys but I find cheaper protein to make my stomach a mess...... ON Whey for example has me doubling over while isoflex seems to be fine.... I'm gonna try some sponsor protein here next.....

[waderow]

my point is....

Whey is whey. I expect to buy x grams of whey in a tub. The fillers is whats makes you sick I am sure.

[nisser]

Good post DC, thanks for sharing ........
Nisser, have you tried out trueproteins proteins etc????
If not give it a whirl, thats all it takes and your mixed ready to roll....just a little whirl in a cup........
Try it and then tell us there isnt a definite difference.....;)

I have tried TP. I had bought their recession 25lb thing and have mostly used it up.

I liked it. What was your point though?

[ironwill]

I was just wondering why you would call bullshit on a pretty respected fellow in many different markets, Bodybuilding area, and supplementation etc., I havent known him to ever BS personally......
Then i got to thinking, hey i wonder if this dude ever tried his stuff, and if not, then maybe he should.. he may change his mind......I see you have, and thats all i was wondering , i just sensed a bit of hostility in your replies to a pretty cool and interesting thread, just kind of caught me off guard a bit is all...
I didnt realize you were so passionate about protein....and the manufacturing process, and knowing about what goes on behind the scenes in the industry, like sub-contracting a bulk supplier and such to help your business needs...:D

[Doggcrapp]

I understood you perfectly fine and I don't believe you. Call them out. What companies?

edit: To think that a reputable company would buy whey, package it AND NOT TEST IT to make sure it's correct is absolutely ridiculous. I hope no one actually believes you here. I can see UGL gear companies not testing their powders but not ****ing big ass supplement companies out there. They have too much on the line to not spend 5 minutes testing their batches.

Until then, it's just rumors and hearsay. What are you selling?

This reminds of the time when someone on this board said they called costco protein company and they told them that the protein in their product is lower quality. Bullshit. It's probably still on this board in the supplements thread.

Wait a minute, you actually think supplement companies make their own protein? Virtually every supplement company out there (not all but almost all of them) are marketing companies....they dont even go near the product. There are no guys getting dirty in the back, its suit and ties. They are an office building with alot of sales and marketing people. Custom manufacturers like myself make their products for them and then we ship their product to wherever they want it shipped to....like bodybuilding.com or retail stores etc.

For example this company http://www.americanwhey.com/ made a great deal of products for numerous companies in stores and even proteins people on this very board have used. Brand Name Companies. Companies that you Nisser think make their own products. (which they dont unless you are Optimum and a token few others, contract manufacturers make all the other supplements in the industry for companies).

The place above in the link looks legit doesnt it. I would bet good money Nisser you have used a protein powder that is made by that company and marketed in 5 page ads in muscle magazines (by the actual company who sells it).

FDA to shut down 3 NJ dietary supplement, protein powder companies

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

FDA press release--all 3 in trouble over rodent infestation, filth, failure to clean between batches of different products, failure to declare ingredients, including allergens on their labels:
FDA NEWS RELEASE

For Immediate Release: July 10, 2009
Media Inquiries: Siobhan DeLancey, 301-796-4668, siobhan.delancey@fda.hhs.gov
Consumer Inquiries: 888-INFO-FDA
FDA Takes Enforcement Action Against Three New Jersey Dietary Supplement and Protein Powder Manufacturers


Companies failed to declare allergens in products and correct filthy conditions

The U.S. Department of Justice, on behalf of the U.S. Food and Drug Administration, has filed a complaint for permanent injunction against Quality Formulation Laboratories, Inc., American Sports Nutrition Inc., Sports Nutrition International LLC and Mohamed S. Desoky, who oversees operations at all three companies.

The companies, located in Paterson, N.J., manufacture dietary supplements and protein powders and distribute them throughout the United States. The companies also export powder mixes and dietary supplements for sale by private label customers.

The government's complaint, filed July 1, 2009 in the U.S. District Court of New Jersey, alleges that the companies have failed to follow current Good Manufacturing Practice (GMP) by manufacturing and storing food under filthy conditions and in conditions that may cause major food allergens to enter into products not intended to contain them.

The complaint also alleges that the companies failed to disclose major food allergens on the product labels and have other labeling problems.
During a recent inspection, FDA investigators found that several of the companies’ products contained milk ingredients that were not declared on the product labels. In addition, the company failed to clean processing equipment between batches and control allergens in the facility.

FDA investigators also discovered live and dead rodents and rodent urine, feces and gnaw holes on bags of product.

In three inspections, FDA investigators noted deviations from GMP standards. The companies promised to make corrections, but they failed to do so. The complaint requests a court order to stop the companies and its officer from manufacturing and distributing the products until needed corrections are made.

“This company has consistently failed to correct filthy conditions in their plants and to make sure that allergens are appropriately declared on the labels, despite frequent warnings to do so,” said Michael Chappell, the FDA’s acting associate commissioner for regulatory affairs. “The FDA will not tolerate companies that fail to provide adequate safeguards.”
Consumers with allergies to milk ingredients who have used these products and are experiencing any symptoms should contact their health care professional.

[Doggcrapp]

Now let me ask you something. Do you really think if the above company cared that little about rats and urine and feces that they actually cared about the quality of the protein thats being put in the jugs for "Brand Name Company"?

Of course they sent a glowing Certificate of Analysis every once in a while to keep the marketing company happy....but do you really think that they lost sleep over a protein at 92% protein percentage over a protein that was absolute crap that they could get for 3 bucks a pound less.

[nisser]

"To think that a reputable company would buy whey, package it AND NOT TEST IT to make sure it's correct is absolutely ridiculous. I hope no one actually believes you here. I can see UGL gear companies not testing their powders but not ****ing big ass supplement companies out there. They have too much on the line to not spend 5 minutes testing their batches."

Thanks for reading my posts. Wait you didn't :)


Does that imply that I think a company like optimum nutrition is milking cows and making their own whey?