Gaining fat while bulking

[vlad]

How much fat do you guys gain while bulking? I know that I am retaining a lot of water since I look much better in the morning then at night but I am also gaining some fat around my mid section. Is it just normal to gain some fat while bulking? Do you guys care if you gain some fat with muscle? I seem to be gaining muscle well and I am getting stronger every week.
My daily nutrition:
3000-3500 calories
200-250g protein
300-400g carbs
80-120g fat
I am 6ft 210-215lbs and right now I figure I have between 10-12%BF. I still have decent abs but they are slowly disappearing.

[GYMBRAT]

I just be sure and keep my abs visible in that right light, if they start to go from there then I adjust my diet acordingly. Used to do the add too much fat bullet and was gettin too hard for me to diet down to single digets again so no more of that

[vlad]

Is it normal to retain a lot of water? I feel like I lose 20lbs in the morning cause my mid section is thin again and abs much more visible.

[JacktheThriller]

I read an article by Mike Mentzer in which he stats if utilized properly a person only need take in 16 additional calories a day to gain 10 pds of muscle in a year, it works like this a pound of muscle has 600cals, 10 pounds is 6000cals /365 = 16.43cals a day. So you really dont need that many extra calories to bulk slowly, 10pds of pure muscle a year is sizable growth, in 5 years, 200pds- 250pds of all lean mass, that would be professional size, so take this as you see it but his point is you dont need a lot of cals to grow

[Memo]

i think a pound should be more 3500 cals

[vlad]

How's your salt intake? and how much water are you drinking a day? I barely get any any I drink about 5L a day.
I don't add any salt to my food but I think that my body naturally retains water. I am going to try and figure out today if there is much salt already in the food that I eat.

[vlad]

I read an article by Mike Mentzer in which he stats if utilized properly a person only need take in 16 additional calories a day to gain 10 pds of muscle in a year, it works like this a pound of muscle has 600cals, 10 pounds is 6000cals /365 = 16.43cals a day. So you really dont need that many extra calories to bulk slowly, 10pds of pure muscle a year is sizable growth, in 5 years, 200pds- 250pds of all lean mass, that would be professional size, so take this as you see it but his point is you dont need a lot of cals to grow
This might be true for a person with perfect genetics. Some people gain weight harder and for some it takes along time. I thought that I was an easy gainer cause I gained so much in a short period of time but then I figured out that my body is naturally around 210. In the last 5 weeks I gain just 5 pounds so I think that in order to gain more weight quickly I need to add more food but make a good balance of it so that I don't get too fat.

[Ritch]

I read an article by Mike Mentzer in which he stats if utilized properly a person only need take in 16 additional calories a day to gain 10 pds of muscle in a year, it works like this a pound of muscle has 600cals, 10 pounds is 6000cals /365 = 16.43cals a day. So you really dont need that many extra calories to bulk slowly, 10pds of pure muscle a year is sizable growth, in 5 years, 200pds- 250pds of all lean mass, that would be professional size, so take this as you see it but his point is you dont need a lot of cals to grow

That`s just crazy talk. I like Mentzer`s ability to think outside the box, but 16 extra cals a day is an extra 4 grams of protein or carbs or close to 2 grams of fat a day.

That`s like saying all you need to do to loose weight is reduce your cals by 16 cals a day, the same macro example above would come into play leading you to nothingness...

I heard mentzer had an amphetamine addiction and I`m willing to bet that the state of mind the drugs put him in, led him to those theories.

[Ritch]

I`d say don`t get any fatter than what it will take you 8-10 weeks max to be where you want to be bf wise. The harder and longer you have to diet, the more chances of failling you have.

At least you`re getting bigger and stronger so you know what you`re doing is working. How far you want to take it, is up to you. But like I said in antoher thread, the fatter you get the lower your insulin sensitivity goes and at a certain point end up putting on more body fat than muscle.

[nitrous]

i've sorta been in the same state.. i can still clearly see where my abs are but there is definitely a layer over them.. but only 23 more lbs to my goal lol

im just planning on continuing to push through it and doing what it takes to keep the abs visible.. plan is to bulk till summer and then slow cut all summer

[tiramisu]

Mentzer needs to be taken with a grain of salt.
I enjoy his seminars but 16*365 = 5840 calories.

It takes about 3500 excess calories over maintenance to put on a pound (fat and muscle).

[GYMBRAT]

Mentzer needs to be taken with a grain of salt.
I enjoy his seminars but 16*365 = 5840 calories.

It takes about 3500 excess calories over maintenance to put on a pound (fat and muscle).

I feel the same way with Mentzer's logic at times

[LondonMuscle]

mentzers comments are akin to the comments made today about the obesity epidemic today in that it is only 50 cals or so per day over maintenance that is causing ppl to become overweight

but thats BS... the body is self regulating in its ability to maintain a homestatic state... just as u cant lose indefinitely at a 50 calorie deficit, u cant gain indefinitely either... i know how the numbers are being rationalized but its really missing the point...


as for the question as to how much fat to gain, imo if ur gaining 1 to 1 fat to muscle ur doing an excellent job

i usually throttle my weight gain per month to say 3 pounds... so over 6 months or so ill be up almost 20 pounds with the hope that up to 10 of that is new muscle mass... i like gymbrat's suggestion as well to just make sure u can always see some of ur abs, if u dont back off the cals a bit... its simple, low tech and it works... however u choose to gauge it, remember that fat is UNUSED calories, they dont really serve any purpose when trying to get more muscular although some fat gain is always inevitable if u want to gain muscle mass optimally by consuming a hypercaloric diet

[kidmode]

I am 6ft 210-215lbs and right now I figure I have between 10-12%BF.

If you don't mind me asking, what is your strength like?