kidneys hurt on EQ...anyone else?

[HeavyD]

hey guys not sure if its the EQ but have ran test E/prop/deca/dbol in the past and i did feel somewhat the same on the dbol.

but this is the first time i have run EQ...

im doing 900mg/wk of test E and EQ. im in about 5wks and my kidneys are really startin to hurt.... it feels alot like when i used to run M1t.

im not sure what it could be since im not running any orals right now. but yet i have only felt like this before on orals.(dbol/M1t)

the only other thing im takin is multi vit. and calcium tabs.

any help?...anyone else ever have something simular to this?

[waderow]

never had that, but make sure youre drinking a lot of water.... 4L per day

[nitrous]

agreed i was only running 600mg of EQ but had no issues like that

[HeavyD]

ya thanks wade i will drink more. its just gettin to the point of thinking of stopping my cycle or atleast dropping the dose.

i dont want to but i dont know what else it could be... i was supposed to start dbol in a couple of days and am now not sure if i should.

i just dont want to stop my cycle if its something else effecting my kidneys... but i got no f**cking clue as to what it could be.

[waderow]

dont start an oral just yet

Wait and see.

[PdH]

Kinda scary shit Bro. Wish I had some useful advice.

[MuSuLPhReAk]

Is your pee normal or dark?

[ironwill]

I would say it is lower back pumps from excess estrogen, such as you would find in dbol etc..........I would try an antie, first, or lower your dose of test a bit...I had bad, bad low back pumps about 4 weeks into my cycle, no orals at that time either...i added aromasin for a short spell at 12.5 mcg eod and it alleviated it entirely........Once i got used to the dose, i dropped the aromasin and all is well....
How is the color and odor of your urine bro....If you are really worried go get blood work done on your BUN, blood urea nitrogen levels, and creatinine levels, takes 2 days and you wont be guessing anymore.....
Thats my take on it..

[ironwill]

Be careful with to much calcium on cycle as well...kidney stones can and do happen on cycle.....From what i understand, to much calcium and a cycle do not mix at all....
I forget where i got that info from exactly, but it was a good source....

[gicantor]

EDIT:Nevermind........

[GYMBRAT]

he's not on orals yet though bro :)

[gicantor]

he's not on orals yet though bro :)

ooops I must have misread. Disregard my first post then.

[Praetorian]

hey guys not sure if its the EQ but have ran test E/prop/deca/dbol in the past and i did feel somewhat the same on the dbol.

but this is the first time i have run EQ...

im doing 900mg/wk of test E and EQ. im in about 5wks and my kidneys are really startin to hurt.... it feels alot like when i used to run M1t.

im not sure what it could be since im not running any orals right now. but yet i have only felt like this before on orals.(dbol/M1t)

the only other thing im takin is multi vit. and calcium tabs.

any help?...anyone else ever have something simular to this?

EQ has little effect on the kidneys. I would suggest getting blood work done and check your blood pressure...high blood pressure will damagethe kidneys. Try adding some cranberry juice and make sure you are drinking plenty of water.
P

[GYMBRAT]

anyone ever take milk thistle anymore?

[lotsoftime]

Feeling a bit in the same boat but I'm thinking it may be a stone for me. I've had 4, one every couple years and the first being when I was 17. Some painfull and some a dull ache.

My last one ****ed up my training and I had ultrasounds done but I must have passed it before that. The didn't see anything and I didn't feel any pain.

They usually happen in the warmer months with intense training and not drinking enough. Last few I'd also throw in the sups I was taking since calcium, protien and outer minerals can build up. I did question my protien intake also... Can really make your kidney work hard.

Doc suggests lots of water and cranberry juice(real cranberry juice).

Blood work would be a good start. Ultrasound second.

[Mr Ontario]

Urine test/blood test/ and more than likely kidney stone forming or wanting to pass or did pass.....

[HeavyD]

hey thankx for the feedback guys... and for all on the piss subject it is normal...well atleast normal for cycle..(witch is nearly normal, except everytime im on it smells a little more potent)..... and no its not a dark colour at all. either clear or light yellow.

[Mr Ontario]

still possibly could have small traces of blood in it, that you can not see.



hey thankx for the feedback guys... and for all on the piss subject it is normal...well atleast normal for cycle..(witch is nearly normal, except everytime im on it smells a little more potent)..... and no its not a dark colour at all. either clear or light yellow.

[HeavyD]

hey mrO.
if it is a kidney stone would i feel pain in both my kidney's?

[Mr Ontario]

No usually just on the one side and probably the back being a little sore as well....any of those sys toms?

dull ache?


hey mrO.
if it is a kidney stone would i feel pain in both my kidney's?

[HeavyD]

yes those symtoms... other than both sides are hurtin....

if any one of you have run M1t... it feels exactly like that...but only in the early stages, its not extreme. but i can definetly notice it. i also ran dbol early this year. and i had to quit around 41/2- 5wks due to the same feeling... so im thinking it may be excess estro.

i dont aromasin like reccomended above... but i do have adex and nolva...with should i try first? i dont have to much adex though.

[HeavyD]

sorry i double posted

[HeavyD]

hey ironwill can you give me some protocol for excess estro using nolva or adex....

and P would you tell me more about the high blood pressure? i have always had high blood pressure. it runs in the family aswell. not to mention this is the highest dose i have run... those machines at drug stores are they accurate enough to get a good reading? i dont know why but i feel this may have something to do with it.

[GYMBRAT]

anyone ever take milk thistle anymore?

I take it religiously when on and off. My urine can look almost florescent, take some Milk Thistle and come out nearly clear......worth trying imo

...just my .02 cents

[PdH]

^^^^Answering yourself now Bro? Who the **** are you, cndsoldier. Heh, heh. :)

[HeavyD]

ya gymbrat i got some milk thistle on hand.... how much and for how long?

[gustavo77]

High blood pressure is very, very bad bro....get it checked immediately... EQ can increase RBC/Hemoglobin to very, very high levels, so can test...this can also increase blood pressure...

Again, I would get that checked out immediately and if needed get on some BP meds...get blood work done as well...check creatinine, BUN, eGFR, cholesterol and RBC/Hemoglobin etc..

[ironwill]

Milk thistle is a good liver protectant......
As far as anti es....I would try aromasin @ 12.5 mg eod to start...You are on a small dose, may not even be necessary, but if it iestrogen related bloat and water causing bp issues or anything along those lines it will help.....
Get bloodwork done anyway for the heck of it...

[GYMBRAT]

^^^^Answering yourself now Bro? Who the **** are you, cndsoldier. Heh, heh. :)

someones gotta :D ......and maaaaybeeee! :ht

[GYMBRAT]

ya gymbrat i got some milk thistle on hand.... how much and for how long?

Milk Thistle Dosage
# Because there are no official guidelines on milk thistle dosage, each supplement manufacturer is free to place its own recommendations on package labels. Suggested dosages range between 70 mg twice a day to 420 mg of silymarin three times a day. The PDR for Herbal Medicines recommends taking a milk thistle supplement of 200 to 400 mg three times a day. This would provide 140 to 360 mg of silymarin in each dose, if the supplement was standardized to 70% to 80%. Most tests of silymarin have been done using a dosage of 140 mg three times per day.

...basically where I got my info/dosage from yrs ago


BUT i truly do agree with everyone here on going to a Doc asap dude

[drdnj]

Go to doc's for tests. Well worth it!
I am still in a bit of a danger zone with my kidney issues and could have avoided it I am sure.

IS your urine foamy?
Are you waking in the night a few times to urinate?
Are you holding water by the end of the day (in ankles etc)?

These were my warning signs and I didn't listen to them. Now I am out of competing for this year and am worried about my health.

Hope I could help!
D

[metalman]

No experience here with anaobolics yet but I think a fair answer to organ pain is to see a doc. Good luck dude, hopefully it is not a problem.

[Praetorian]

hey ironwill can you give me some protocol for excess estro using nolva or adex....

and P would you tell me more about the high blood pressure? i have always had high blood pressure. it runs in the family aswell. not to mention this is the highest dose i have run... those machines at drug stores are they accurate enough to get a good reading? i dont know why but i feel this may have something to do with it.

Damage to your kidneys

Your kidneys filter excess fluid and waste from your blood — a process that depends on healthy blood vessels. High blood pressure can injure both the blood vessels in and leading to your kidneys, causing several types of kidney disease (nephropathy). Having diabetes in addition to high blood pressure can worsen the damage.

* Kidney failure. High blood pressure is one of the most common causes of kidney failure. That's because it can damage both the large arteries leading to your kidneys and the tiny blood vessels (glomeruli) within the kidneys. Damage to either makes it so your kidneys can't effectively filter waste from your blood. As a result, dangerous levels of fluid and waste can accumulate. You might ultimately require dialysis or kidney transplantation.
* Kidney scarring (glomerulosclerosis). Glomerulosclerosis (glo-mer-u-lo-skluh-RO-sis) is a type of kidney damage caused by scarring of the glomeruli (glo-MER-u-li). The glomeruli are tiny clusters of blood vessels within your kidneys that filter fluid and waste from your blood. Glomerulosclerosis can leave your kidneys unable to filter waste effectively, leading to kidney failure.
* Kidney artery aneurysm. An aneurysm is a bulge in the wall of a blood vessel. When it occurs in an artery leading to the kidney, it's known as a kidney (renal) artery aneurysm. One potential cause is atherosclerosis, which weakens and damages the artery wall. Over time, high blood pressure in a weakened artery can cause a section to enlarge and form a bulge - the aneurysm. Aneurysms can rupture and cause life-threatening internal bleeding.

P

[z83]

Go to doc's for tests. Well worth it!
I am still in a bit of a danger zone with my kidney issues and could have avoided it I am sure.

IS your urine foamy?
Are you waking in the night a few times to urinate?
Are you holding water by the end of the day (in ankles etc)?

These were my warning signs and I didn't listen to them. Now I am out of competing for this year and am worried about my health.

Hope I could help!
D

damn, I do wake up 2 times during the night.
foamy urine don't think so (sometimes it might have a greenish tint)

[MAJIN VEGETA]

Yes equipoise can **** up your Kidney's The drug is also known to stimulate the kidney and can release EPO-which then stimulates the synthesis of red blood cell, making your blood to go thicker and thus making your kidney's work harder. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erythropoietin
Yes equipoise can **** up your Kidney's, I know this from experience, from doing a equipoise only cycle for 20 weeks at 400-600mg a week. It wasnt that I even noticed anything was that wrong while on equipoise, it was when I came off, and because of that my equipoise days are now over.

MAJIN VEGETA

[HeavyD]

holy shit MV.... i think i will lower the EQ to 600wk and test to 800wk...

and to all who posted about doc... i think i will see if i can get in tomoro....besides its free... i love canada

once again, thank you all...this is the best board i have ever been apart of.

when i go see my doc should i tell him whats up... or just play stupid and see what the tests say?

[waderow]

if you ever want life insurance, you will NOT tell your doctor. think about your future and your future family (if you dont have one already)

[HeavyD]

ok...so if im looking at changing my cycle...

im at 900wk-testE
900wk- EQ

im thinking on going to

800wk testE
600wk EQ
300wk deca

with all these being low-moderate dose i think i should squash any sides, while still making good gains... or you guys think i should just take out the EQ all together?

[waderow]

i would not bother with the deca, and reduce the EQ if you feel thats your problem

[HeavyD]

High blood pressure is very, very bad bro....get it checked immediately... EQ can increase RBC/Hemoglobin to very, very high levels, so can test...this can also increase blood pressure...

Again, I would get that checked out immediately and if needed get on some BP meds...get blood work done as well...check creatinine, BUN, eGFR, cholesterol and RBC/Hemoglobin etc..

so will the BP meds help with my kidneys aswell? or is this treating the symtoms rather than the problem?

[HeavyD]

Don't "play stupid"...you are only screwing yourself in the long run by misleading your doctor...do you want to subject yourself to unnecessary medical tests because you are omitting a serious fact such as your AAS use?

You "will lower the EQ to 600 mg/week and the Test to 800 mg/week"???
How old are you anyway bro?...
It doesn't sound to me that you are in any way shape or form educated in the use of AAS.
I doesn't seem to sink into your head that you should seriously reconsider continuing your AAS cycle...especially since a member on this board, openly supplied you with his own personal experience on EQ's adverse effect on his kidney's and how it was harmful to him...
then I don't know what else members can do for you here to help with you this problem.

when anyone of use start using we all know there are risks involved.... i have not come across this before and am trying to get different opinions so i can make the best possible choice.......

if we all stopped our cycles when something happens there would be nearly no one "on" cycle... every thing from a bad shot to things such as mine as high BP....

there are risks and we have to make a chioce... and i am just trying to figure out if this is a major issue or a minor one..( if we all quit useing dbol, when we got lower back pumps. no one would be using it.)

i understand you are only concerned, and trying to help a guy out... but also understand that we have all decided that this is life for us... if you have usefull info please post it... if you want to be my dad and baby sit me, than send me a PM

[HeavyD]

sorry if it came across as being a dick...just spare me the doctor Phil routine

[waderow]

when anyone of use start using we all know there are risks involved.... i have not come across this before and am trying to get different opinions so i can make the best possible choice.......

if we all stopped our cycles when something happens there would be nearly no one "on" cycle... every thing from a bad shot to things such as mine as high BP....

there are risks and we have to make a chioce... and i am just trying to figure out if this is a major issue or a minor one..( if we all quit useing dbol, when we got lower back pumps. no one would be using it.)

i understand you are only concerned, and trying to help a guy out... but also understand that we have all decided that this is life for us... if you have usefull info please post it... if you want to be my dad and baby sit me, than send me a PM

Green for this bro. and not the green on your avy lol

[waderow]

btw, not sure if you saw my post about NOT telling your doctor. dont do it unless youre really ****ed up... for real. You need to think about your future and one day you may need life insurance. You wont get it if your medical record says drug abuser

[HeavyD]

btw, not sure if you saw my post about NOT telling your doctor. dont do it unless youre really ****ed up... for real. You need to think about your future and one day you may need life insurance. You wont get it if your medical record says drug abuser

exactly. its not that im trying to keep anyone in the dark. just dont need to get any unwanted attention. the biggest rule in this is stay safe. first and foremost.

[gustavo77]

so will the BP meds help with my kidneys aswell? or is this treating the symtoms rather than the problem?

If your blood pressure is high, of course BP meds will help. I think you mentioned earlier that high BP runs in your family, so you may be more susceptible to high BP on cycle, possible very high BP....if this is the case, then that can put an intense strain on your kidneys and BP medicine until you get off cycle and maybe beyond, may save your kidneys. But...i am not a doc, so go see one bro.

[HeavyD]

Fair enough!:)

Are you still in pain bro?
Just scrap the EQ for now and do the Test...see how things go.
All the best!:)

well this may explain why im not freaking out yet.

i am not in pain all day... i only realy feel it when i need to eat. actually i have barely been able to notice it today...

and dropping the EQ completely does not work since its a long ester and will take a few weeks to total leave my system...

i will not start my dbol till this is figured out, and prob drop EQ to 600wk...

i will see if i can get in to docs tomoro, and take it from there, hopefully BP meds....

once again guys i am amazed at how many of you actually try to help and responded... and this is why i still feel this is the best board in canada... other than no homebrew section *COUGH*COUGH*

[HeavyD]

hey guys not looking for anymore replies.. but just an update for all who are interested.

last time i got my BP checked it was 150/85, they said it was border line to needing meds.

i went in about two days ago and it was 141/78. so being on a gram of test and EQ it has actually came down... i have no idea how but this is the case.

i have still decided to drop the EQ to 600wk... to hopefully help with the strain on my kidneys.... i will run this dose for a month and see how my kidneys react. and adjust as i need.

once again thankx for all the replies...still best board in canada

[GYMBRAT]

awesome to hear bud, was curious about this actually! other than how is your test eq cycle going thus far?

[HeavyD]

actually very good.... i cant stress enough how much i love deca, other than deca dick, and some fat. but that is also diet.

the EQ amazed me... i have heard about people looking for lean gains. and thought it was mostly diet witch i still believe to be true.

however the EQ makes it much easier to obtain... only way i can explain is if your looking for a great compound for bulk hands down deca... now if your looking to cut i would recommend prop/tren... but this EQ is in the middle. I am still gaining... but i cant believe how the veins are "POPING" out.... this compound is i believe better suited to run with prop/tren/mast.. any so called cutting agents... but im using it as a bulker just like i would deca and cant complain at all......

and just to inform all this is my first big run with EQ thats why i explained as i did.

[GYMBRAT]

nice! sounds like its going well then lol

[musclehead123]

Not sure if you got your kidneys tested, but if not you should. If your doc says that your kidneys are "weak" stay off salt completely for a month. The doc got my mom to do this and her kidneys "strengthed up". So my mom avoided salt completely for a month she did subsitute KCL (potassium cholride) for NACL. But even then she used half as what she would have with NACL.


Also a natural path doc told me that silica has a side effect to strengthen kidneys. It would not harm you so might as well give it a shot. Hope you feeling better.

[Praetorian]

actually very good.... i cant stress enough how much i love deca, other than deca dick, and some fat. but that is also diet.

the EQ amazed me... i have heard about people looking for lean gains. and thought it was mostly diet witch i still believe to be true.

however the EQ makes it much easier to obtain... only way i can explain is if your looking for a great compound for bulk hands down deca... now if your looking to cut i would recommend prop/tren... but this EQ is in the middle. I am still gaining... but i cant believe how the veins are "POPING" out.... this compound is i believe better suited to run with prop/tren/mast.. any so called cutting agents... but im using it as a bulker just like i would deca and cant complain at all......

and just to inform all this is my first big run with EQ thats why i explained as i did.

Most aas raise RBC count...not just EQ...so to blame EQ for your issues is somewhat flawed. That being said the root cause is still blood pressure...the increased volume can lead to higher blood pressure which is the culprit affecting the tubules in the kidneys. Once this happens the kidneys have a much more difficult time functioning and as result symptoms will appear. Always keep your blood presure in check.
P

[bigboy999]

had kidney pain from high dose tren ace, never eq tho. drink lots of water