im looking to cut up!

[marcman77]

hey guys almost down my cycle i added bulk buut i want to know what i can use to cut without losing wieght i really want to bring out soem defintion.....what woul du guys suggest i use....

[#8]

a razor to get rid of that chin strap

[Monka]

you can use typical stuff winny/tren/var , i just know also, some dudes make crazy results with just diet. I remember years ago SS whole body would change crazy just on food intake, well training to, but shocking to see such extreme

[natenator]

a razor to get rid of that chin strap
bahahhahaaha

[Skyblob]

Rofl for razor! But nah bro keep it its cool ;) I get crazy results on dieting .. I get 0 fat and only eat carbs n proteins and omfg i shred lol.

[bongd]

Short esters if you bloat with longer ones (UGL gear can be unpredictable and I find that I get bloated), some test and tren would do well. You can use winny and it'll dry you out a little, but once you start eating shitty you'll wash out your definition. So it's a toss up. I love how I look on winny but cleaning up my diet gives me the same results without the joint pain.

I just finished 8 weeks of test, tren and masteron and I've never been so cut in my life. Cut a lot of fat and put on a couple pounds of muscle. Did an hour of morning cardio and evening cardio everyday and cycled EC.

Even if you can only run a little test, it'll keep you from losing muscle. Other compounds are just icing on the cake.

[marcman77]

how much winny should i run whats a good dosage

[waderow]

how much winny should i run whats a good dosage

winny is not good. try tren and cardio

[nisser]

winny is not good. try tren and cardio

but he has winny and WANTS TO USE IT.



same story every time :)

[natenator]

Short esters if you bloat with longer ones (UGL gear can be unpredictable and I find that I get bloated), some test and tren would do well. You can use winny and it'll dry you out a little, but once you start eating shitty you'll wash out your definition. So it's a toss up. I love how I look on winny but cleaning up my diet gives me the same results without the joint pain.

I just finished 8 weeks of test, tren and masteron and I've never been so cut in my life. Cut a lot of fat and put on a couple pounds of muscle. Did an hour of morning cardio and evening cardio everyday and cycled EC.

Even if you can only run a little test, it'll keep you from losing muscle. Other compounds are just icing on the cake.
if you were in a caloric deficit there is no way you put on new muscle mass

[C-money]

if you were in a caloric deficit there is no way you put on new muscle mass
I agree with bong.. i dont see him saying he was in a caloric deficit..

[natenator]

I agree with bong.. i dont see him saying he was in a caloric deficit..
which is why I quantified my statement saying IF he was in a caloric deficit...

[revolution187]

is there any way u can rid of winny and use var? maybe some prop and var, a friend mine says he uses arimidex along side and he looks quite shredded

[theboss]

lets see the diet.

[PdH]

lets see the diet.

What diet?

[bongd]

Lets not get hung up over one post and take everything out of context. Everyone's so quick to shoot people down.

I did gain mass during my CUT. I'm a lot bigger and with much better conditioning it gives the illusion that I'm far bigger before I even began cutting. Remember, there are 24 hours in a day. I wasn't constantly in a caloric deficit. Some days I'd eat around maintenance calories or even a surplus. I do a lot of my eating and training by intuition. And every now and again I would spend some time eating hard again and I'd put on a good amount of lean mass. Over the course, much of that solidified into solid muscle. I've gotten a little sick here and there and only dropped a pound or two of water weight each time. So I'm very excited and satisfied with my progress.

I've also been cutting for almost half a year on and off. The last couple months doing two hours of cardio a day. Obviously there was no mass gained during the last little while, but the results I see in the mirror speaks for itself. I was really serious about cutting this time around and despite the hurdles like getting engaged, buying a house and working 24/7 I managed to get in the best shape I've ever been in. Nothing about it was easy.

People really shouldn't get so hung up over the whole, "can't gain mass during a cut" and "can't lose fat during a bulk" debates. There are far too many variables and far too many fun drugs out there to obliterate those arguments. :p

[Big D]

you can use typical stuff winny/tren/var , i just know also, some dudes make crazy results with just diet. I remember years ago SS whole body would change crazy just on food intake, well training to, but shocking to see such extreme

I like this post

[natenator]

Lets not get hung up over one post and take everything out of context. Everyone's so quick to shoot people down.

I did gain mass during my CUT. I'm a lot bigger and with much better conditioning it gives the illusion that I'm far bigger before I even began cutting. Remember, there are 24 hours in a day. I wasn't constantly in a caloric deficit. Some days I'd eat around maintenance calories or even a surplus. I do a lot of my eating and training by intuition. And every now and again I would spend some time eating hard again and I'd put on a good amount of lean mass. Over the course, much of that solidified into solid muscle. I've gotten a little sick here and there and only dropped a pound or two of water weight each time. So I'm very excited and satisfied with my progress.

I've also been cutting for almost half a year on and off. The last couple months doing two hours of cardio a day. Obviously there was no mass gained during the last little while, but the results I see in the mirror speaks for itself. I was really serious about cutting this time around and despite the hurdles like getting engaged, buying a house and working 24/7 I managed to get in the best shape I've ever been in. Nothing about it was easy.

People really shouldn't get so hung up over the whole, "can't gain mass during a cut" and "can't lose fat during a bulk" debates. There are far too many variables and far too many fun drugs out there to obliterate those arguments. :p
disagree but hey, say whatever your ego needs to feel better about yourself :)

[daande]

Run something like 100mg Test Prop EOD or 500mg Test E a week. Do cardio (walking on an incline) for about an hour a day. Either drop your carbs or do a calorie deficit. You could do T3/clen also, but dont do them unless you are dieting and doing cardio almost no point.

[GYMBRAT]

a razor to get rid of that chin strap

LMFAO!!!!!! could be an ounce or so their bro ;) .......oh and yes diet as well!

[gsxr750]

I like to diet Keto style. Makes for easy cardio, easy prep, inexpensive, and practically guaranteed fast and efficient results if done properly.

[C-money]

Lets not get hung up over one post and take everything out of context. Everyone's so quick to shoot people down.

I did gain mass during my CUT. I'm a lot bigger and with much better conditioning it gives the illusion that I'm far bigger before I even began cutting. Remember, there are 24 hours in a day. I wasn't constantly in a caloric deficit. Some days I'd eat around maintenance calories or even a surplus. I do a lot of my eating and training by intuition. And every now and again I would spend some time eating hard again and I'd put on a good amount of lean mass. Over the course, much of that solidified into solid muscle. I've gotten a little sick here and there and only dropped a pound or two of water weight each time. So I'm very excited and satisfied with my progress.

I've also been cutting for almost half a year on and off. The last couple months doing two hours of cardio a day. Obviously there was no mass gained during the last little while, but the results I see in the mirror speaks for itself. I was really serious about cutting this time around and despite the hurdles like getting engaged, buying a house and working 24/7 I managed to get in the best shape I've ever been in. Nothing about it was easy.

People really shouldn't get so hung up over the whole, "can't gain mass during a cut" and "can't lose fat during a bulk" debates. There are far too many variables and far too many fun drugs out there to obliterate those arguments. :p

Agreed bro.. im doing a lean bulk, still doing moderate cardio, keeping the diet clean while carb cycling, high days/low days... yes im putting on good mass... but staying around the same bf, or slightly lower.. im pumped on my results .. up 20 or more pounds, strength is thru the roof, hard to tell with bf.. but i would go to say im leaner.. my training partner would agree with the bf being slightly lower, and my veins are ****ing crazy.

[PdH]

Lets not get hung up over one post and take everything out of context. Everyone's so quick to shoot people down.

The point of my sarcasm is addressed to the consistently ambiguous posts around 'cutting'. The OP stated that he wanted to know "what i can use to cut without losing wieght i really want to bring out soem defintion.....what woul du guys suggest i use...."

Time and again we see posts requesting advice on which magic potion to take in order to get cut without losing any mass. No discussion of the diet or cardio plan being used as the foundation for fat loss, just a plea for a chemical roadmap. I don't know if the original OP has diet and cardio planned or not, but it would be prudent to include such vital information when asking for pharmaceutical assistance. It's like asking someone if you should marry your girlfriend when the person you're asking doesn't even know you or her.

[waderow]

dont know about you guys, but i have lost fat and kept the same body weight numerous times (which would mean I gained muscle)

but i guess its impossible so must not have happened

[C-money]

dont know about you guys, but i have lost fat and kept the same body weight numerous times (which would mean I gained muscle)

but i guess its impossible so must not have happened

Same here bro.. but it must all be in our heads:popc2

[natenator]

Same here bro.. but it must all be in our heads:popc2
must be in that crack your smoking because basis human physics suggest otherwise or else every single pro out there would be staying at their offseason weight when they stepped on stage but with less bodyfat.

But I guess you guys know how to do things so much better than the pros and that's why you can gain muscle and lose fat while dieting huh?

[waderow]

must be in that crack your smoking because basis human physics suggest otherwise or else every single pro out there would be staying at their offseason weight when they stepped on stage but with less bodyfat.

But I guess you guys know how to do things so much better than the pros and that's why you can gain muscle and lose fat while dieting huh?

not necessarily "dieting" (assuming you are meaning a precontest diet), but a balanced diet, moderate cardio, heavy weights, and chemical assistance (in may case I have accomplished this many times with tren).

I would call this a body re-composition

[natenator]

not necessarily "dieting" (assuming you are meaning a precontest diet), but a balanced diet, moderate cardio, heavy weights, and chemical assistance (in may case I have accomplished this many times with tren).

I would call this a body re-composition
which is why I said in response to bongd's original post... a caloric deficit. Caloric deficit = dieting.

Maintenance or slightly above + hard training + moderate cardio + chemically assisted = body recomp (I agree with you)

[waderow]

which is why I said in response to bongd's original post... a caloric deficit. Caloric deficit = dieting.

Maintenance or slightly above + hard training + moderate cardio + chemically assisted = body recomp (I agree with you)

semantics.

I got ya. Calorie deficit would catabolize muscle mass and fat stores

[natenator]

semantics.

I got ya. Calorie deficit would catabolize muscle mass and fat stores
semantics are important around here given it seems most people can't ****ing read to save their lives. lol

[waderow]

I am not going to look back, but I thought it said somewhere that one cannot "cut" and gain muscle mass at the same time... But I would call a light version of this "body recomp"

[natenator]

I am not going to look back, but I thought it said somewhere that one cannot "cut" and gain muscle mass at the same time... But I would call a light version of this "body recomp"
I'll do it for you:


if you were in a caloric deficit there is no way you put on new muscle mass

[C-money]

must be in that crack your smoking because basis human physics suggest otherwise or else every single pro out there would be staying at their offseason weight when they stepped on stage but with less bodyfat.

But I guess you guys know how to do things so much better than the pros and that's why you can gain muscle and lose fat while dieting huh?

Ya it must be the crack thats making me more striated, more vascular, repping out much heavier weights at 20+ pounds heavier.. god damn crack! You want some Nate!? I think you do!:lick

[waderow]

I'll do it for you:

bong said he cut and put on muscle and you disagreed. But doesnt matter. Like I said, it was all semantics.

[ironwill]

Ya it must be the crack thats making me more striated, more vascular, repping out much heavier weights at 20+ pounds heavier.. god damn crack! You want some Nate!? I think you do!:lick

Same shit happens for me bro, and there are several others that can actually lose fat while gaining muscle......CC did it big time on a keto diet as well.....
I have seen several people succeed in this and several competitors have recomped during prep or whatever word we want to use and grow into a show......not that uncommon anymore, especially with things like anabolics, gh and slin.....You see it more and more now...

[monkey]

ok.. another approach to this

I conceptually agree with Nate. I have never dieted with all tons of chemicals, so before hearing from 5 people its possible.. well I dont know and I won't judge on it.


Ok, lets assume I weight 220 pounds at 10%..
ignoring skin, bones etc.. i'll say that that person carries roughly 22 p ounds of fat.

this person packs on 20 ponds= 240 pounds. .. body fat would b reduced to 9%

then when you decide to cut.. probably going to cut out carbs and salt.. less water retention. in addition to that, shorter esters or most likely and AI..
and there we go. one could be way more could and appear slightly leaner then before.. the fat will be spread out over a bigger surface, bigger muscle will make them more visible..

ok, not very scientific. not sure if it holds true, but just an idea.

[kloan]

Obviously someone who is dieting without the use of AAS and is in a caloric deficit will not gain any muscle mass, however maybe AAS somehow allows the body to be super-efficient at building muscle from whatever protein it can get?

It is possible to burn fat without being in a caloric deficit as well (ex: keto), so if one is using AAS while dieting, but still consuming a decent amount of calories, then it makes sense that while burning off fat they can still build new muscle.

Just a shot in the random darkness of thought...

[bongd]

The point of my sarcasm is addressed to the consistently ambiguous posts around 'cutting'. The OP stated that he wanted to know "what i can use to cut without losing wieght i really want to bring out soem defintion.....what woul du guys suggest i use...."

Time and again we see posts requesting advice on which magic potion to take in order to get cut without losing any mass. No discussion of the diet or cardio plan being used as the foundation for fat loss, just a plea for a chemical roadmap. I don't know if the original OP has diet and cardio planned or not, but it would be prudent to include such vital information when asking for pharmaceutical assistance. It's like asking someone if you should marry your girlfriend when the person you're asking doesn't even know you or her.

I hear you, bro. I just give people the benefit of the doubt that they're not blithering morons. It takes a good deal of research, time and soul searching before you can find the maturity and mental prowess to understand, appreciate and effectively use anabolics. It also takes a bit of trial and error.

With this presumption in mind, that's when I'll give people my two cents. If they can't appreciate or understand my advice, then hopefully someone else can because it's a public forum and my posts are visible to everyone, vice versa.

HOPEFULLY this guy's put as much energy and focus into his diet and training. If not, nothing we say can help him understand the basics and why they're so important. It'd be a lost cause. If I can spend 5 minutes helping someone out though, I think it's time well invested in a brother in iron. If he's a douche then I can't judge, he must have enough problems as it is, right?

(no offense to the OP - I am assuming you're NOT a moron or a douche lol)


must be in that crack your smoking because basis human physics suggest otherwise or else every single pro out there would be staying at their offseason weight when they stepped on stage but with less bodyfat.

But I guess you guys know how to do things so much better than the pros and that's why you can gain muscle and lose fat while dieting huh?


which is why I said in response to bongd's original post... a caloric deficit. Caloric deficit = dieting.

Maintenance or slightly above + hard training + moderate cardio + chemically assisted = body recomp (I agree with you)


semantics are important around here given it seems most people can't ****ing read to save their lives. lol


semantics.

I got ya. Calorie deficit would catabolize muscle mass and fat stores

Totally, waderow. I'm not here to argue over semantics. Nate's got a hard on for me and can't stop jumping all over my posts. It happened after I disagreed with Praetorian so I can tell I hit a nerve.

Hey, nate. I've got my head screwed on straight. Don't talk down towards me with your elitist attitude. I don't appreciate that.

Nothing's more embarrassing than a prototypical juicer, jutting his chest out and trying to throw his weight around. Seniority means NOTHING in the realm of SCIENCE. I speak nothing but the truth and if I am ever wrong, I am not opposed to being corrected. I'm here to learn and help people. It's close minded people like you that bring AAS boards down and make juicers look like clowns.

If you want to drop the beef, you are very welcomed to. I can do just the same. This is the internet. You're getting your panties in a bunch and I empathize for you. I can drop this like a bad habit. I'll joke around one minute and the next, I won't give a shit about what just happened. Who cares? I'm sure you're a good person but your posts don't paint a portrait of an intelligent, friendly fellow. If you want to convince me that you're correct, you won't do that by insulting me, taking everything I say out of context and whining after I post anything that you have a slight disagreement with.


By the way, I am Filipino and Chinese. I didn't speak much of my native tongue growing up but English is still a second language. No heavy accent or anything but sometimes I'll drop some FOB bombs and broken English. You dig? Please don't get hung up over shit I say. It's not like it's my last and final words before I die. It's nothing important - this is just the internet. I either post my shit from my iPhone or at work when I'm bored. Expect more fragmented posts with broken English. Life's too short to worry about shit like this.

[tex]

sooo....whilst a person is on the sauce the body becomes more efficient at "nutrient partitioning".....thus giving the possibility for muscle growth and fat reduction....albeit at a small level as you need a surplus of calories to really gain substantial muscle mass....steroids quite often give the illusion of a leaner physique and unless you are getting your bf checked in the tank you never get a "true" measurement.....

[natenator]

sooo....whilst a person is on the sauce the body becomes more efficient at "nutrient partitioning".....thus giving the possibility for muscle growth and fat reduction....albeit at a small level as you need a surplus of calories to really gain substantial muscle mass....steroids quite often give the illusion of a leaner physique and unless you are getting your bf checked in the tank you never get a "true" measurement.....
:)

[waderow]

true.... But when I am 235 with pudge, and then 6 weeks later I am 235 ripped..... I gained muscle and lost fat. Whatever the numbers are... it happened. No illusions. No water (or at least not entirely). It is fat loss and muscle gain.... albeit chemically assisted

[ironwill]

^^^^you betcha bro...I keep saying the same thing....when i was dieting for contest, i started out chubby, then was losing weight.........Then the weight loss ceased, i stayed static on the scale, but my abs came out, veins came out, my friggin belt went to the last hole and i had to make new ones, but my weight stayed the same...I dont need a fishtank to tell me i gained muscle and lost fat............
while in a calorie deficient state....i was following a strict diet, written down to a T......
I am not a freak of nature, cant explain it because im not that smart, but it did happen, and has happened many times in the past......
Not trying to argue, but it is true...

[PdH]

true.... But when I am 235 with pudge, and then 6 weeks later I am 235 ripped..... I gained muscle and lost fat. Whatever the numbers are... it happened. No illusions. No water (or at least not entirely). It is fat loss and muscle gain.... albeit chemically assisted

Are you using tren when you get these results Bro?

[GYMBRAT]

true.... But when I am 235 with pudge, and then 6 weeks later I am 235 ripped..... I gained muscle and lost fat. Whatever the numbers are... it happened. No illusions. No water (or at least not entirely). It is fat loss and muscle gain.... albeit chemically assisted

Im the same way, ive always been able to maintain my size while dieting, if im 250 i can stay close to 250 but with much more definition......we are genetic freaks :moon

[waderow]

tren is the culprit. But I also hate tren and will probably never run it again unless its low dose.... like 200mg/week or something

[ironwill]

Are you using tren when you get these results Bro?

nope, cant do tren...I know it wasnt directed to me...BUT no tren.....test/npp mostly

[PdH]

nope, cant do tren...I know it wasnt directed to me...BUT no tren.....test/npp mostly

I appreciate your response Bro. It gives me more to think about. When I consider gear use, I consider what the compound was developed for. Those who have created the product have much more pharmacological knowledge than I'm prepared to delve into, so I tend to look at compound objectives.

Tren was developed as a cost effective method of stimulating lean mass growth in cattle being prepared for slaughter. Cattle stand around and eat grass and are fed grain/corn etc, and tren is very effective in stimulating growth in this type of environment. People aren't cattle, but it would seem rationale that when tren is utilized by a bodybuilder that significant lean mass could be acheived.

Nandrolones seem to have similar qualities. The primary compound used for muscle wasting diseases when patients are sedentary, is very effective at producing lean mass with adequate nutritional intake.

Not really sure where I'm going with this train of thought, just some thoughts.

[bongd]

true.... But when I am 235 with pudge, and then 6 weeks later I am 235 ripped..... I gained muscle and lost fat. Whatever the numbers are... it happened. No illusions. No water (or at least not entirely). It is fat loss and muscle gain.... albeit chemically assisted

Yup. Like I said, there are a ton of fun drugs out there. Even just AAS will make this happen. Tren is great for recomping. The huge, full muscle bellies it produces also helps with body recomp after the first few injections.

[trainharder]

I know this is pure bro science, but if you're eating at maintenance levels, could it be that your body burns fat in order to obtain energy needed to build muscle?

[HoliTheCat]

Did anyone mention eat less?

[bongd]

I know this is pure bro science, but if you're eating at maintenance levels, could it be that your body burns fat in order to obtain energy needed to build muscle?

No, it doesn't work that way unfortunately. Although I'd easily trade my fat for muscle :)

[tex]

true.... But when I am 235 with pudge, and then 6 weeks later I am 235 ripped..... I gained muscle and lost fat. Whatever the numbers are... it happened. No illusions. No water (or at least not entirely). It is fat loss and muscle gain.... albeit chemically assisted but what happens when you are 12 weeks out of pct? are you still 235 and ripped? more than likely you smooth out......aas magic!

[waderow]

but what happens when you are 12 weeks out of pct? are you still 235 and ripped? more than likely you smooth out......aas magic!

oh yes... its AAS for sure that is making this possible, but point it...it is possible

[tex]

well it's not "real" if it goes away after your off.....just temporary.....

[waderow]

well it's not "real" if it goes away after your off.....just temporary.....

who said it goes away?