Arginine

[Drummer]

This is supposed to be the NO booster in all the pre-workout drinks. It is NOT. Is does however support vasodilation, which can make it useful for preworkout drinks. It is in everything as you prolly already know. I have never taken it alone. Anyone have any input on its use stand-alone, or in their favourite pre-workout drink?

~D~

[Canadian Protein.com]

This is supposed to be the NO booster in all the pre-workout drinks. It is NOT. Is does however support vasodilation, which can make it useful for preworkout drinks. It is in everything as you prolly already know. I have never taken it alone. Anyone have any input on its use stand-alone, or in their favourite pre-workout drink?

~D~

I definitely notice an increase in vascularity when taken in higher amount 5-10 grams pre workout. I think that may be the problem with the fancy pre-workout mixes...just too much stuff in them at too little of a dose.

200-400mg Caffeine
5g creatine mono
5g l-arginine
10g BCAA's
5g beta-alanine
1g vit c
waxy maize
oats
1-2 scoops whey
=great preorkout mix and crazy pumps

I know I'm forgetting a couple other things, but you all get the point.

I actually met with an IFBB pro today and that's one of the things we talked about...stick with the basics, you can't go wrong...all these fancy pre, post, intra, whatever else come and go...creatine, bcaa's, glutamine, etc are tried, tested and true.

[Drummer]

Your definitely right about the fluff in the fance stuff. Way too many things in way too low a dose. When I began to design my own pre-workout (which im not done yet) my doses look like yours. Im also looking at adding to your list : 2 grams GPLC (the best carnitine and the ONLY NO increaser), 500mg histidine, and maybe citrulline malate (im not sure about this one tho). I believe it will blow away any other drink out there. Except for the taste lol.

~D~

[Drummer]

oh yea, glutamine 5g

[Canadian Protein.com]

Your definitely right about the fluff in the fance stuff. Way too many things in way too low a dose. When I began to design my own pre-workout (which im not done yet) my doses look like yours. Im also looking at adding to your list : 2 grams GPLC (the best carnitine and the ONLY NO increaser), 500mg histidine, and maybe citrulline malate (im not sure about this one tho). I believe it will blow away any other drink out there. Except for the taste lol.

~D~

Yes that's what I forgot citrulline malate and L-glutamine. Citrulline malate it works great coupled with arginine.

In order to properly activate arginine this would be the best combo...

arginine 5-10 grams
citrulline malate 3-5 grams
ginseng 100-200mg
ruaecarpine 10-100mg
vit c around 1g

...now that's only in order to properly activate arginine and reap the maximum benefits from...the other supplements listed in the previous posts obviously work in different ways and cover different angles that work great together as a pre work mix.

I'll have to do more research on GPLC, very interesting Drummer!

Acetyl L-carnitine still provides the most proven anecdotal research in regards to fat metabolism, however, in terms on NO production and GPLC, that is a very interesting concept!

[Ogrew]

I take Arginine Ethyl Ester (http://www.nutraplanet.com/product/nutraplanet/arginine-ethyl-ester-100-grams.html) with creatine, glutamine and caffeine in my orange juice and it does the trick for me :beer

[Ritch]

oh yea, glutamine 5g

Yeah, how could you ever train without it??? LOL... This talk of citrulline seems weird to me. The supp came out many years ago and was never a hit. Why is that? I`m guessing maybe the cost. It was touted more as a lactic acid buffer. Have never tried it but hesitate to as there dosen`t seem to be much talk of it being a good supp.

On t-nation they have articles pointing out why l arginine is actually an uneffective pre workout tool. I can`t remember the exact facts why but it could make for an interesting read for anybody who cares. Personally I don`t as I don`t see myself buying this stuff.

Why? It won`t give you any gains mesurable by the human eye. I`ve added up to 5 grams of arginine ethyl ester to my VPX no shotgun and couldn`t tell if anything was added.

I think the people who brought NO2 on the market took advantage of who they were and what they originally brought on the market (creatine) and peopel trusted what they had to say and they hit paydirt with their scam. I swear ever since the days of HMB I`m never the one to try a supp when it first comes out. I still feel EAS owes me $360 for those 3 tubs of betagen I bought... I at least wait for the next and never imporved versions to come out. This has been done with arginine and it still dosen`t seem like a sure thing. So now you must combine a bunch of stuff to make it work? I don`t know...

This is comming from a guy who buys all his powders in bulk and can have 5-7bottles of "stuff" on the counter putting stuff through a funnel in bottles and empty medicine bottles before heading out for the day...

[Canadian Protein.com]

"This is comming from a guy who buys all his powders in bulk and can have 5-7bottles of "stuff" on the counter putting stuff through a funnel in bottles and empty medicine bottles before heading out for the day..."

Are you referring to me with that comment?

[Ritch]

"This is comming from a guy who buys all his powders in bulk and can have 5-7bottles of "stuff" on the counter putting stuff through a funnel in bottles and empty medicine bottles before heading out for the day..."

Are you referring to me with that comment?

LOL! No that`s me, or us I guess... I can have a jar of beta alanine, creatine, taurine, l-tyrosine, DMAE, rhodila rosea, piracetam and gatorade (for taste as some of this stuff just tastes disgusting!) out on the counter going into various bottles and empty medicine bottles.

Oh man what a nasty, foul fish oil burp that just was. Looking forward to trying that fish oil sample from you guys. A friendly warning here: Don`t buy the now brand fish oil caps. I use a couple with some of my good one`s from costco to help reduce the digustingness of the fish oil burps.

[Canadian Protein.com]

LOL! No that`s me, or us I guess... I can have a jar of beta alanine, creatine, taurine, l-tyrosine, DMAE, rhodila rosea, piracetam and gatorade (for taste as some of this stuff just tastes disgusting!) out on the counter going into various bottles and empty medicine bottles.

Oh man what a nasty, foul fish oil burp that just was. Looking forward to trying that fish oil sample from you guys. A friendly warning here: Don`t buy the now brand fish oil caps. I use a couple with some of my good one`s from costco to help reduce the digustingness of the fish oil burps.

Oh ok, I was going to say I hope you don't think that we fill our product on a counter with funnels. We have a multi thousand dollar per month operation going on to make sure things are done right for our customers! :D

As for the supplements taken in conjunction with arginine, I should clarify that the other supplements increase the effectiveness of arginine, they don't necessarily make it work, but they do help especially citurlline malate I've personally noticed. But, again everyone is different and things effect people in different ways and are more effective in certain people than others.

Same goes for even medication, some people respond, some don't...not really any different for supplements.

But, of course there are certain supplements that are simply a hoax and a marketing scheme to rake in cash or simply not effective in the human body at accomplishing what they are suppose to.

Ritch, as for our softgels, I think you'll be happy with them because they have an enteric coating which refers to the small intestine, therefore enteric coatings will prevent release of the fish oil before it reaches the small intestine, thus pretty much solving the classic "fish oil breathe and burps"! :D

[Drummer]

LOL!! Always a pleasure to have your point of view Ritch, cause you try the stuff or do the reading. Anyway, dont forget my purpose : im not only looking for measurable gains from a product, but a good boost for a workout. Of course if something proves ineffective, I will not use it anymore. The glutamine thing is only there for immune support should my nutrition suffer for the day. Otherwise its not very useful. It is one of the most abundant aminos in our bodies, i am aware. For me, the most important supps are :

Protein, creatine, EFA's (if you dont eat enough), and a good multi.

Everything in my recent threads is about formulating a kick ass pre-workout drink that does this :

Gives you great energy, endurance, and mental focus. I believe that most of the BS listed on the NO products is just that - BS - and all in insufficient doses at that. Most experienced BBers will say this too. SOOOOO when I hit a mix of good stuffsssss that works re-workout, I will definitely pass it on here free of charge lol! My most curious thing lately is this GPLC.... Glycocarn.... let me get a good look at this before i get moving on the rest!!

~D~

[nitrous]

Your definitely right about the fluff in the fance stuff. Way too many things in way too low a dose. When I began to design my own pre-workout (which im not done yet) my doses look like yours. Im also looking at adding to your list : 2 grams GPLC (the best carnitine and the ONLY NO increaser), 500mg histidine, and maybe citrulline malate (im not sure about this one tho). I believe it will blow away any other drink out there. Except for the taste lol.

~D~

ya this GPLC stuff sounds interesting

[Drummer]

I can say this for now : Ive had some rock hard, almost painful pumps with Presurge and 1.5 grams of GPLC added (for a total of 2 grams gplc). Intrabolic on top of this is working very nicely for sustained energy, focus, pumps, and nutrient timing so far. I want to see if I get immune after a week or 2 tho...

~D~