Does anyone never come off?

[cheesesteak]

A guy on another message board told me last year that if I wanted to compete at some point I should go on and never come off. Just cruise for a few months a year at HRT levels and the rest run aggressive cycles.

Is this guy just full of shit or do people actually do this and then get HRT scripts when everything has gone so far that test shuts down?

[steve_d]

Its poor advice in my mind...If you want to compete at some point, not only do you NOT need to always stay on, but you don't NEED to ever be on. Depends on what level you want to compete at I suppose, but there are plenty of highly competitive DRUG-FREE bodybuilders, and other very competitive that are probably on low doses ONLY pre-contest.

But yes, there are others who are on year round, non-stop, and although compete, don't really do all that well...So it's a pretty big mix bag.

[cheesesteak]

He was referring trying to go all the way towards pro status and making a living at bodybuilding. He said pros rarely come off and just cruise after contests (how he knows this beats me).

[_Ragnar_]

I know a couple of guys who are on for life. They are old school and have never done pct when they did come off. HCG is your friend I guess! :D

[Redz]

I know many people use cruise and blast protocols especially at the high level of bbing. Its a big decision to make and can lead to not being able to have children which is another thing to consider.

[cheesesteak]

I know many people use cruise and blast protocols especially at the high level of bbing. Its a big decision to make and can lead to not being able to have children which is another thing to consider.

Shit, I don't want kids anyway. Thinking of getting snipped.

[L3]

i would be more concered with your overall health rather than just having kids... being overweight for a number of years (as i assume you have been) has probably done a number on your organs... now add test for life and things have the potential to turn very sour for you in the mid to long term...just my .02

[cheesesteak]

I've been overweight from about 20 to now. So 7 years. I could post a pic of me as a teen if you wanna see what my genetic frame is like.

[_Ragnar_]

Lets see CS. I should dig up a skinny teen picture of my self.

[cheesesteak]

Grade 10

[RagingRandy]

^^^^ That is the best stove pic we have seen in weeks.

[cheesesteak]

Eggs for protein! I could probably only eat 2 though. At that time I was just eating once a day. Using my lunch money to buy cigarettes.

[sierra1]

^^^^ That is the best stove pic we have seen in weeks.

OMG. LMAO.

[nitrous]

^^^^ That is the best stove pic we have seen in weeks.

lol awesome

[steve_d]

Shit, I don't want kids anyway. Thinking of getting snipped.

I hope this thread isn't meant to help you make a decision on whether or not you (personally) should not come off.

PS: If you can't place in a high level canadian show naturally, then you are not going to make a career out of bodybuilding.

[PdH]

IME you will acquire significantly better gains coming off than if you run a cruise and blast protocol. I don't know anyone who WANTS to come off, but it's necessary unless you are medically required to run HRT. Those who cruise and blast and say it's all good are just kidding themselves.

[MikeyFXD35]

I am on HRT and so are a few others so I cruise on test but that is only because I can't produce my own.

[bongd]

I've cycled steroids a few times and came to the conclusion that blasting and cruising will be better for a tiny tit like myself. Recovery sucks when coming off even a shorter cycle, so I might as well make it longer and just make sure to run some HCG/clomid while I cruise just to kick my leydigs in the balls and remind them how to produce LH and FSH.

Hopefully a new SARM will come out by the time I really come off cycle. Never went on for a really long time but I'll make sure to cruise with as little as possible to give my body a break. I've always been jealous of those who stay on for a year or more because it sucks so badly to come off, get sick and have to start from square one.

[shivsean]

IME you will acquire significantly better gains coming off than if you run a cruise and blast protocol. I don't know anyone who WANTS to come off, but it's necessary unless you are medically required to run HRT. Those who cruise and blast and say it's all good are just kidding themselves.

I would have to disagree with this. Constantly subjecting your muscles to the muscle-promoting effects of AAS over the long-term, IMO, will result in more net lean muscle mass gain than the "cycling" method over the same time frame.

I have been on for close to 30 months - went from 198 and 13% BF to 242 & 10%. I am close to 40 and the risks associated with this decision were acceptable for me - I don't think your utimate use of your body (go pro or not) should have an impact on your decison. What one needs to look at is the health (an legal) risks involved.

[waderow]

Cheesesteak. Bro.

You don't even know what you got yet, and you've decided to go pro.

Slow down my friend.

[GYMBRAT]

If that's what your interested in bro just do all the home work you can possibly do and overall come the that final decision on your own! Me personally am going to start this long trek of blast and cruise, though I am 37 with 3 kids and SNIPPED lol ;)

.....NOT DISAGREEING WITH ANYONE'S COMMENTS THOUGH GUYS :) cuz I do agree

[cheesesteak]

Cheesesteak. Bro.

You don't even know what you got yet, and you've decided to go pro.

Slow down my friend.

That's totally not what I was getting at. I'm asking from the standpoint of someone who wants to go pro or just to always be getting bigger or maintaining their lean mass.

I haven't taken anything yet. But I know my first few times will be cycles.

[tex]

dont get snipped. it has been shown to increase risk and early onset of dementia. dont stay on steroids for too long......some guys get lucky and can recover from longer cycles....others **** themselves for a loooooong time......risk to benefit bro.....

[IronMan]

dont get snipped. it has been shown to increase risk and early onset of dementia. dont stay on steroids for too long......some guys get lucky and can recover from longer cycles....others **** themselves for a loooooong time......risk to benefit bro.....

Agree, agree, and agree!

[waderow]

That's totally not what I was getting at. I'm asking from the standpoint of someone who wants to go pro or just to always be getting bigger or maintaining their lean mass.

I haven't taken anything yet. But I know my first few times will be cycles.

okay.

well with pros, there will always be someone who will pipe up and say that most pros dont take much gear, and that <insert name here> only took 500mg test e per week on 12 week cycles to mass up to 300 off season and 240 show weight with 5%BF,

but in reality, it is a ton of money, juice, HGH, food, training, maybe 10-15 years of dedication, and did I mention juice?

[z83]

agree ^^

[cheesesteak]

Juice in the long run isn't as expensive as buying a shitload of supplements. They'll work a hell of a lot better too.

[GYMBRAT]

okay.

well with pros, there will always be someone who will pipe up and say that most pros dont take much gear, and that <insert name here> only took 500mg test e per week on 12 week cycles to mass up to 300 off season and 240 show weight with 5%BF,

but in reality, it is a ton of money, juice, HGH, food, training, maybe 10-15 years of dedication, and did I mention juice?

x3

[daande]

What are the benefits of comming off? Cant you just use HCG if you wanna have kids?

[bongd]

Juice in the long run isn't as expensive as buying a shitload of supplements. They'll work a hell of a lot better too.

Hell yeah, man. The basics like protein and general health supplements I believe are vital. But aside from caffeine and ephedrine everything else just isn't worth the money. I could have spent a fraction on that on juice and I would have been far happier and a lot bigger.

If someone could go back in time and let me know that adding oatmeal to my protein shakes would be 10 times more effective, I would give them a thousand dollars right there on the spot.


What are the benefits of comming off? Cant you just use HCG if you wanna have kids?

Well, although you won't be permanently shut down if you see a good endocrinologist, you don't want to suffer from horrible shut down for more than 6 months either. There have been guys that went on AAS and thyroid meds for 20 years or more and come off just fine. All these permanent XXXX shutdown myths are annoying.

You can still have kids if you juice too. It can make it increasingly difficult for some. But if you're in that position already, you should be visiting a sperm bank nonetheless.


I'm personally not worried about fertility. When my fiance and I decide to have children, we won't stress if it takes a little longer than anticipated. We're young so it just means we have all the more reason to hump like bunnies. It'd be a different situation if we were in our late 40's though.

[GYMBRAT]

Well, although you won't be permanently shut down if you see a good endocrinologist, you don't want to suffer from horrible shut down for more than 6 months either. There have been guys that went on AAS and thyroid meds for 20 years or more and come off just fine. All these permanent XXXX shutdown myths are annoying.

You can still have kids if you juice too. It can make it increasingly difficult for some. But if you're in that position already, you should be visiting a sperm bank nonetheless.


I agree with this as well, When My wife and I conceived our daughter, I was on the 13th wk of 21 wks of my largest/longest cycle to date.....drol, prop, test e, tren a....

[4031]

^^^^ That is the best stove pic we have seen in weeks.

bwhahahahahaha, thats a good one!

[tony_canuck]

i would approach it this way, first what are your gains etc... on a normal short cycle. I would only add any supplement at a min, and slowly add more until i was at a level i felt comfortable in. I wouldn't start out at zero and say give me the fastest motorcycle if i haven't ridden before, take it slower up the scale and really understand what you;'re getting into

[Solo59]

It is no safer to stay pumped-up on high levels of hormones than it is for a locomotive to stay under high-pressure full steam ahead for long periods.

Solo:rolleyes:

[ryankely]

okay.

well with pros, there will always be someone who will pipe up and say that most pros dont take much gear, and that <insert name here> only took 500mg test e per week on 12 week cycles to mass up to 300 off season and 240 show weight with 5%BF,

but in reality, it is a ton of money, juice, HGH, food, training, maybe 10-15 years of dedication, and did I mention juice?

exactly,no such thing of a pro that takes a "litttle juice"(except maybe arnold,1 or 2 d-bol a day..."pumping iron") My longest cycle was about 2 and a half years in my mid thirties,I came back to normal in 3 months. I still do year long cycles,on one right now. 1g of test/week,some peptides,slin off and on,d-bol every once in a while. Tamoxifen when I need it. A shot of Hcg here and there. Not saying this is good or right,but works for me. On the other hand my training partner is screwed,he competed at a high level,(and won) but now his natty test is nill and has to take cialis everyday.(when he's not juicing) I am not going to get into the list of shit he was taking,but let's just say his test alone was 3g/week.

[tiramisu]

Like everything else... It depends.

If you are getting regular bloodwork to ensure that your blood pressure and cholesterol are in check.

If you don't have a family history of heart disease, stroke or cancers

If you aren't terribly concerned about your hpta (although it appears pretty darn hard to kill entirely).

... I'm not personally comfortable with staying on but many have. A small few have gotten sick, most have not. I'm comfortable that I can achieve my goal weight of 250@8% at 5'9" in the next 2-3 years while continuing to cycle. Other people have different objectives.

[rob66679]

Is that a myth about perma****ing your bodys ability to produce its own test if you stay on a long time?
What about your cholesterol levels too, thats the kind of thing that adds up over time doing more damage thats permanent. Once your arteries are clogged their clogged, surgery from there right?

[ryankely]

Is that a myth about perma****ing your bodys ability to produce its own test if you stay on a long time?
What about your cholesterol levels too, thats the kind of thing that adds up over time doing more damage thats permanent. Once your arteries are clogged their clogged, surgery from there right?

No myth,my friend can no longer get it up without a aid. Again everyone is different. Yes high cholesterol and swollen prostate have been my two major problems over the years. This is why blood tests are a must. Your liver can take a beaten(my uncle drank a 26er a day for like 40 years and still kickin)but you need to watch cholesterol over the long hall. I can control mine with diet and red wine. Last resort their are pills to lower it also. Blood test tells all. I get one every 3 months. God bless Canada their free.

[hommes]

its nuts to stay on year round, you need to give your receptors some time to recouperate.

[ryankely]

it's not good for you,but works well,just got to shock your system with different gear every couple months keeping test as a base. I juggle 240 to 255 depending if it's summer or not,every year attaining more quality muscle. I have also been off gear for a couple years at a time also.

[tiramisu]

Is that a myth about perma****ing your body's ability to produce its own test if you stay on a long time?
What about your cholesterol levels too, that's the kind of thing that adds up over time doing more damage that's permanent. Once your arteries are clogged their clogged, surgery from there right?

Perma****ing... It's not a myth, it does happen but not to all or most. The vast majority recover HPTA although in bad cases it may take the involvement of a endocrinologist and a significant period being pretty ****ed. From simple cycling or even extended use at low levels (i.e. as a male contraceptive) all the studies have shown 90%+ recovery. Of course you might be one of the couple of guys out of a 100 that doesn't recover.

Yes aas has the potential to lower hdl and increase blood pressure causing permanent arterial damage over time. This is why bloodwork is important. Again you may not be the person it kills, but if you have any of the risk factors for heart disease, stroke and/or potentially some cancers then you might get to be one of those really fit guys that drops dead of a stroke or heart attack. ... and no there is no surgery other than unless we are talking about bypass, stent, etc. Does this happen to all the guys who abuse steroids? Absolutely not. BUT it does happen occasionally and if you are considering making the choice to stay on a drug permanently you definitely want to be getting regular blood work to ensure you aren't that guy.

Certainly less dangerous than tobacco or Tylenol but remember most of us fall under the heading of abusers of these drugs. A generous HRT dosage is 200mg/wk. I would suggest the majority of casual ab/users are in the 1 gram range (5x recommended dosage) to 5 gram range (25X recommended dosage). Because aas are such a "safe" set of drugs this vast level of chronic abuse results in surprisingly few obvious deaths.

Most of the deaths claimed as aas related are BS and the ones that really are generally don't say so. For example, Lyle Alzado, brain tumor - NOT, and the kid who killed himself after using aas - NOT (although, depression can be caused or worsened by hormone crashes). If you watch boards like professional muscle you will see death notices every 6 months to a year on good bro's who have had aneurysms, strokes or heart attacks and died as healthy young or middle aged men. Would these guys have died without the aas use? Quite possibly, bad genes suck, but contributing to the problem is still irresponsible. It's kind of like having a history of lung cancer and being a 2 pack a day smoker. Not entirely brilliant.

Aas are drugs. They are remarkable in what they do and surprisingly "safe". Most drugs (ala Tylenol, ibuprofen, antibiotics) kill far more people when used properly than aas appears to kill when abused. Like all drugs though they can have 'side effects' that for some people can be life threatening.

[rob66679]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Thanks, great post.
I had read before that permanent shutdown was/is possible, but there are a few guys on here that said otherwise.
Always good to have discussions regarding this type of thing, its a health matter.

1 cycle a year is looking good to me, I have no ambition to be a pro BB. I do look on other boards and your right, lots of healthy looking guys dropping dead... Usually doing 2 liters of juice a week though lol.
The Munzer death stack comes to mind.....

[bongd]

Perma****ing... It's not a myth, it does happen but not to all or most. The vast majority recover HPTA although in bad cases it may take the involvement of a endocrinologist and a significant period being pretty ****ed. From simple cycling or even extended use at low levels (i.e. as a male contraceptive) all the studies have shown 90%+ recovery. Of course you might be one of the couple of guys out of a 100 that doesn't recover.

Yes aas has the potential to lower hdl and increase blood pressure causing permanent arterial damage over time. This is why bloodwork is important. Again you may not be the person it kills, but if you have any of the risk factors for heart disease, stroke and/or potentially some cancers then you might get to be one of those really fit guys that drops dead of a stroke or heart attack. ... and no there is no surgery other than unless we are talking about bypass, stent, etc. Does this happen to all the guys who abuse steroids? Absolutely not. BUT it does happen occasionally and if you are considering making the choice to stay on a drug permanently you definitely want to be getting regular blood work to ensure you aren't that guy.

Certainly less dangerous than tobacco or Tylenol but remember most of us fall under the heading of abusers of these drugs. A generous HRT dosage is 200mg/wk. I would suggest the majority of casual ab/users are in the 1 gram range (5x recommended dosage) to 5 gram range (25X recommended dosage). Because aas are such a "safe" set of drugs this vast level of chronic abuse results in surprisingly few obvious deaths.

Most of the deaths claimed as aas related are BS and the ones that really are generally don't say so. For example, Lyle Alzado, brain tumor - NOT, and the kid who killed himself after using aas - NOT (although, depression can be caused or worsened by hormone crashes). If you watch boards like professional muscle you will see death notices every 6 months to a year on good bro's who have had aneurysms, strokes or heart attacks and died as healthy young or middle aged men. Would these guys have died without the aas use? Quite possibly, bad genes suck, but contributing to the problem is still irresponsible. It's kind of like having a history of lung cancer and being a 2 pack a day smoker. Not entirely brilliant.

Aas are drugs. They are remarkable in what they do and surprisingly "safe". Most drugs (ala Tylenol, ibuprofen, antibiotics) kill far more people when used properly than aas appears to kill when abused. Like all drugs though they can have 'side effects' that for some people can be life threatening.

My son, I like the cut of your jib lol :greet

This is true. There HAVE been cases of extremely adverse reactions to anabolic steroids and these should certainly be acknowledged. Although ma or pa may have not had cardiovascular challenges, you don't want to meet up with a cardiologist 20 years after juicing and find that you just snipped a quarter piece off your lifeline because of an undiagnosed illness.

Many of the most DANGEROUS side affects are asymptomatic - you don't feel that shit. Just because your dinky still gets hard, that doesn't mean that your HPTA is recovered. Just because your liver and kidneys stopped hurting, that doesn't mean it's time for ****in' Jaggerbombs ;)

Aside from hormonal imbalances which should be addressed without even mentioning, cardiovascular risk is something that's almost NEVER acknowledged. I'm young and keep an eye on these. I have Asiatic heritage with a long long of cardiac challenges. Conversely, 'dem bastards in my family usually live to 100 (serious).

My father's side of the family is Caucasian and they have a lot of issues with their blood. So I make sure to get regular blood work. I pay a ****ing arm and leg for this Medical Services bullshit so you bet your ass I take advantage of it. I implore everyone else to do this as well. It might be embarassing or unnerving to visit the doctor and get a lecture about steroids, but stand your ground. Don't let a pencil neck douche bag tell you myths like how steroids get laced with coke or how they'll shut you down with one injection - be smart, respectful and presentable. If you present a legitimate medical concern, they MUST address it otherwise they're putting their career on the line over bias and ego.


On that note, I've had a doctor tell me my steroids were laced with coke and rat poison. Another doctor sat me down, told me to be good to my neighbor, get married and have children. I could have had these dumbasses lose their job if I really wanted to push it because those weren't the only slip ups. But what matters is that they ordered my blood work, I got a phone call in a week or two and I know where I stand. Lectures and douchebaggery aside, it could mean the difference between life or death..... or many, many months of soft dicking your women and possibly breaking up over a difficult recovery. Even one night of poor sex is NOT WORTH IT. Get checked out, guys.

/rant... I'm all hopped up on ephedrine. Need to hit the bike!!