Is hCG recommended for a small first cycle?

[KoN]

Hello all

My plan is to run 500 mg test (two shots per week) for 12 weeks, followed by a very standard clomid/nolvadex PCT.

I have arimidex on hand as well.

My question is regarding hCG. From my research it appears to be a good idea to keep my testes working throughout the cycle so my original plan was to run hCG concurrently. However, some people have said this is a waste of time and money at only 500 mg per week, and that it may even make gyno a reality.

Is it a good idea in your opinion to add this compound to the cycle? Thank you very much in advance.

[gicantor]

First off, welcome to the board.

I wouldn't call it a waste of money. Anything to help you recover easier is a worthwhile investment. However is it absolutly necessary. No. Gyno can happen just from taking the test, you have to see how your body reacts.

I would run 250IU's twice a week and see how you react. Since you have nolva and adex on hand you can always jump on those if gyno pops up.

[Born2Juice4Ever]

Gicantor good stuff.

I would omit HCG for the current protocol, no need to.

And yes, HCG is known to cause a chemical reaction that sparks gyno, but not at such doses at all.
One would have to be running extremely high dosages in order to spark bitch titties.
There will be shut down, but not significantly.

Kon excellent work on doing research before you inject....welcome to the site.

B2J

[KoN]

Aha... I understand a bit more.

Well, if the clomid I am using is basically tricking my brain into signalling test-production then the hCG would be sort of redundant, I suppose.

My main concern was just keeping natural-test levels as stable as possible so that I can keep my gains. My diet and training are perfect, I log every single one of my meals so that's not an issue. I just heard it said... "better to keep the horses in the stable then go chase them after".

My biggest concern is keeping track of what is doing what to me. Since this will be my first time on the ride, I need to know exactly how I'm reacting to every compound and every minute detail.

I would just like to get a few more opinions... if you were running this cycle as your first, would you go with the hCG? (keeping in mind I don't know my body)

[gicantor]

Aha... I understand a bit more.


I would just like to get a few more opinions... if you were running this cycle as your first, would you go with the hCG? (keeping in mind I don't know my body)


NO. See how you respond to test alone.

[KoN]

That's what I was thinking. I doubt I will be shutdown bad from just the one hormone. Since this is my first cycle I'm just trying to get the max out of it. I always here guys saying "oh yeah bro I just went for it" and ended up with problems or limited gains or even no gains.

I'm not expecting this to change my physique but I want to get as much as I possibly can out of this first one.

[gicantor]

Aha...

Well, if the clomid I am using is basically tricking my brain into signalling test-production then the hCG would be sort of redundant, I suppose.



Can you please post exactly everything you are taking and the doses. And your PCT protocol. We can help you more with the details.

[KoN]

This is the blueprint...

1-12 Weeks Test E at 500 mg
14-15 150mg/day clomid
15-16 50mg/day clomid
14-16 40mg/day nolvadex

Arimidex as needed, although some have suggested to use concurrently.

Thank you very much for your input, btw. I'm much obliged.

[gicantor]

This is the blueprint...

1-12 Weeks Test E at 500 mg
14-15 150mg/day clomid
15-16 50mg/day clomid
14-16 40mg/day nolvadex

Arimidex as needed, although some have suggested to use concurrently.

Thank you very much for your input, btw. I'm much obliged.

Thats a pretty heavy dose of clomid for a test only cycle.

I would drop the clomid to 100mg.

My first cycle was test c 500mg/EW and a 4 week dbol kickstart. I ran PCT like this:
Nolva 40/40/20/20
Clomid 100/100/50

I recovered fully(bloodwork verified)

[KoN]

That looks more reasonable. How were your gains?

[gicantor]

That looks more reasonable. How were your gains?

20lbs in 16 weeks.

Lost it all after the cycle. I mean every pound. Clomid depression snuck up on me and I stopped training and eating. Completely my fault. It's all a learning experience to see how you react to everything.

[KoN]

So what would you say is a reasonable expectation as far as lean muscle goes? I'm not worried at all about my diet and training, but I'd be curious how much lean muscle you retained on your first "good" cycle?

[jack_krauser]

Everyone is different but if training and diet is in check then i would assume 15-20lb. I am also starting test cycle soon and naturally i was cruising at 10lb a year without any change in bf.

[gicantor]

Well I'm in a "second" cycle right now and only 9 weeks in so I couldn't tell you. But I won't be using clomid this time around.

[meathead]

Thats a pretty heavy dose of clomid for a test only cycle.

I would drop the clomid to 100mg.

My first cycle was test c 500mg/EW and a 4 week dbol kickstart. I ran PCT like this:
Nolva 40/40/20/20
Clomid 100/100/50

I recovered fully(bloodwork verified)

Yea... gicanter has it bang on ^^^ 100mg max for the clomid.

I personally would run HCG during PCT along with your clomid and nolva.

[bigtavi8]

hypothetically speaking if i was to do a 500 test go id just run nolva 40 40 20 20. Maybe some arimedex as well. Im staying as far away from clomid as i can. I have enough mental issues as it is and dont need another. Even if i dont recover as fast im willing to live with it (and possibly a non existent sex drive) if i can avoid clomid. Not becuase im cheaping out just simply becuase i know my body reacts really ****ed up to certain things that arent even supposed to cause depression and lethargy.

[meathead]

hypothetically speaking if i was to do a 500 test go id just run nolva 40 40 20 20. Maybe some arimedex as well. Im staying as far away from clomid as i can. I have enough mental issues as it is and dont need another. Even if i dont recover as fast im willing to live with it (and possibly a non existent sex drive) if i can avoid clomid. Not becuase im cheaping out just simply becuase i know my body reacts really ****ed up to certain things that arent even supposed to cause depression and lethargy.

Its that bad for you eh? **** I notice it but its tolerable for me.

[bigtavi8]

to tell you the truth havent tried clomid. But for that reason. If enough ppl swear it ****s them up i just am going to work around it and use others instead. A little off topic but some ppl say stanzolol makes them feel screwed up what do you think about winny vs clomid. I know were talking about totally differnt animals but anyone who has tried both tolerate one better. Im just trying to gauge the effect of clomid because it seems so neccesary and useful but i dont have enough green to try it and then realize ya half a week in its not for me.

[KoN]

Thank goodness I have a VERY non-stressful and non-problematic life ATM so the clomid sides are really not worrying me.

Do you guys feel that by keeping the testes stimulated you don't really have a period of time in which they are inactive and your body doesn't have to experience lower test at any point? Do you feel this would enable you to maintain lean muscle easier?

[theboss]

to tell you the truth havent tried clomid. But for that reason. If enough ppl swear it ****s them up i just am going to work around it and use others instead.


i find clomid REALLY helps when using Tren and probably Deca....

for a Test only cycle I think Nolva only is fine..especially when its only 500mg/week

now back to my chicken...........carry on

[GYMBRAT]

I agree with theboss man, nolva will be all ya need for this nice little cycle my friend

now back to my Bison burger.....carry on :)

[KoN]

Well, that's a relief to me to be honest. I was a little worried about having to pin so much my first time around. My virgin skin might feel like a pin cushin lol

[meathead]

A little off topic but some ppl say stanzolol makes them feel screwed up what do you think about winny vs clomid. I know were talking about totally differnt animals but anyone who has tried both tolerate one better. Im just trying to gauge the effect of clomid because it seems so neccesary and useful but i dont have enough green to try it and then realize ya half a week in its not for me.

I nave never noticed much in the way of sides from winny myself. I do hear lots of people say they have issues with clomid though. For me Dbol and anadrol make me feel like crap as well as kill my appetite.

IMO anytime you screw around with your body's natural hormone balance it will affect you in one way or another so it reasons to me why many people feel like s**t regardless of the compounds they run for PCT.

[Born2Juice4Ever]

I agree with theboss man, nolva will be all ya need for this nice little cycle my friend

now back to my Bison burger.....carry on :)

Eating a burger hu :( I wish I could even go near anything fat....damn, lucky you!!



:bch

[GYMBRAT]

ha, it's just a Bison patty with some Salsa not very fattening at all, and could most definitely taste soooooo much better LOL

[KoN]

I guess I'll run the hCG next year on my second cycle, once I see how I react to the test.

[GYMBRAT]

good idea! happy cycling bruh!