Thinking of doing keto

[cheesesteak]

Right now I'm eating carbs but feel they are a hassle to make.

Here's roughly my diet:

Meal #1 - 2 whole omega 3 eggs, 1 cup egg whites, 1 banana

Meal #2 - 6oz chicken breast, 1 cup rice

Meal #3 - same as 2

Meal #4 - 8oz steak, 1 cup of broccoli

Meal #5 - protein shake


I also have a shake PWO.

The rice doesn't really fill me up any and I'm just putting it in there to fill out calories.

What would a good sample keto diet be for me?

<----- pic.... 5'11, 215lbs

One thing is that I can't stand salmon. I haven't tried cottage cheese so I don't know if I like it. I don't like raw tomatoes. That's about all the foods I don't like.

[JonnyO]

How long have you been following this diet you outlined for?

[cheesesteak]

About 4 months

[baza]

1 - 5 eggs
2 - chicken breast, two pieces of bacon
3 - Can of tuna, 3tbsp mayo
4 - Steak cesaer salad. Add cheese if you want.
5 - Protein shake wtih 2tbsp udo's 3-6-9 oil.
6 - Repeat one of the above.
Aim for just over 30g of protein per meal.
Aim for 30g of fat per meal.(above fat meals may need to be adjusted) May need to be adjusted, I just gave a roght number, which would give you roughly 2600calories.

[JonnyO]

About 4 months

The exact diet for 5 months daily?
How often do you have a cheat meal?
Do you do any cardio?
Supplements?

[cheesesteak]

The exact diet for 5 months daily?
How often do you have a cheat meal?
Do you do any cardio?
Supplements?

Pretty much exact.

Have a cheat meal 2-3 times a week.

Cardio everyday. 30-45 minutes. Twice on weight training days.

Supplements: whey isolate, multi-vitamin, glutamine, caffeine pills


This is what I looked like before

[JonnyO]

check PM

[Talo]

I'm sure JonnyO has set something up for you so I wont go into diet details , but Keto's work great if you follow them. Remember to keep your fat high and if possible keep them to the essential fats ( EVOO , Avocado , Nuts , eggs whole.... ) You will want to keep your fiber up high also or you will run into a few problems . Psyllium husk works great and it has no hidden carbs or sugars.

[Praetorian]

Tips for a good keto diet:

1. 6 evenly spaced meals
2. 40-50g pro per meal (depending on LBM) + approx 15-20g fat
3. 50g trace carbs per day
4. Use essential fats...avoid saturated and nitrites
5 use a fish oil supplement
6. cardio isnt static....ie it increase in small increments weekly or biweekly
start at 40min once per day...after 16 weeks 60-70 min twice daily is the norm
7. alternate pro/veg and pro/fat days once fat loss slows on just pro/fatdays
8. weight train 4-5 days per week, higher intensity, lower volume
9. drink plenty of water and never restrict sodium intake
10. avoid dairy and any condiments with sugar (mayo etc)

P

[Talo]

I think for most people , 50g of carbs in a day while on a keto diet is too high. It will most likely take you out of ketosis.

I'm not sure what training 4-5 days a week has to do with a keto diet. I mean training will help you get into ketosis faster , only because it will help you burn up the stored glycogen , but you could still get there without training at all. I'm not saying to do that , but I only weight train 3 days a week , maybe 4 . Sometimes less is better.
Same with cardio , I'm not sure where it's written that doing 40 mins a day then 60-70 mins after 16 weeks makes any difference for a KETO diet.... Maybe if someone is getting ready for a show they will need to step it up , but we're talking keto here.

Once fat loss slows you should decrease your total cals , I don't think you should alternate pro/veg and pro/fat .... Those should be eaten all together for every meal.

[natenator]

I think for most people , 50g of carbs in a day while on a keto diet is too high. It will most likely take you out of ketosis.

I'm not sure what training 4-5 days a week has to do with a keto diet. I mean training will help you get into ketosis faster , only because it will help you burn up the stored glycogen , but you could still get there without training at all. I'm not saying to do that , but I only weight train 3 days a week , maybe 4 . Sometimes less is better.
Same with cardio , I'm not sure where it's written that doing 40 mins a day then 60-70 mins after 16 weeks makes any difference for a KETO diet.... Maybe if someone is getting ready for a show they will need to step it up , but we're talking keto here.

Once fat loss slows you should decrease your total cals , I don't think you should alternate pro/veg and pro/fat .... Those should be eaten all together for every meal.
Not to sound like a dick but are you speaking from experience or from what you read? Praetorian speaks from what he KNOWS as a national level competitor and trainer of many athletes.

[Talo]

Yes, I speak from experience too. May not be at the level Praetorian is at , but I've done the Keto also. Everyone is different , so to tell someone do this or that will def work is wrong , I just wanted to state what worked for me and what I've seen. I hope I didn't come across as an ass.

[natenator]

Yes, I speak from experience too. May not be at the level Praetorian is at , but I've done the Keto also. Everyone is different , so to tell someone do this or that will def work is wrong , I just wanted to state what worked for me and what I've seen. I hope I didn't come across as an ass.
Actually, any diet as long as in a calorie deficit and exercising will work. Some will work better than others but all will work.

And you didn't come across as an ass - that's usually reserved for me around here :D

[baza]

The problem is, there's a big difference from CKD and Palumbo's KD.

[Praetorian]

I think for most people , 50g of carbs in a day while on a keto diet is too high. It will most likely take you out of ketosis.
COMPLETELY INCORRECT...THESE ARE TRACE CARBS NOT ADDITIONAL CARBS...IE CARBS FROM NUTS, PB, EGG YOLKS,VEGGIES ETC AND THEY ARE NECESSARY TO TRAIN...YOU STILL NEED GLYCOGEN TO TRAIN...KETONE BODIES WONT CUT IT

I'm not sure what training 4-5 days a week has to do with a keto diet.
TRAINING HELPS MAINTAIN MUSCLE...USE IT OR LOS EIT ITS QUITE SIMPLE...ITS NOT NECESSARY TO GET INTO KETOSIS NO BUT IT IS IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO KEEP THE MUSCLE YOU HAVE

I mean training will help you get into ketosis faster , only because it will help you burn up the stored glycogen , but you could still get there without training at all. I'm not saying to do that , but I only weight train 3 days a week , maybe 4 . Sometimes less is better. NOTALWAYS

Same with cardio , I'm not sure where it's written that doing 40 mins a day then 60-70 mins after 16 weeks makes any difference for a KETO diet....
HUGE DIFFERENCE...YOUR FAT LOSS WILL STALL IF YOU DONT DO CARDIO AND INCREASE IT OVER TIME

Maybe if someone is getting ready for a show they will need to step it up , but we're talking keto here. SHOW OR NOT IT IS STILL REQUIRED

Once fat loss slows you should decrease your total cals , I don't think you should alternate pro/veg and pro/fat .... Those should be eaten all together for every meal. DECREASING CALS IS THE LAST THING YOU DO ON A KETO DIET...THIS IS LEFT TO THE LAST 4-6 WEEKS DEPENDING ON THE INDIVIDUAL , PRO/VEG IS JUST DROPPING THE FAT SOURCE TO INCREASE BF LOSS...NOTHIGN TO DO WITH MACROS

p


ps caps are used to differentiate my comments...not shouting

[Talo]

50g of TRACE carbs are still alot of carbs no matter how you look at it , unless your counting fibers in with this and in that case sure , since I don't count them because they cant be digested.
You can find ALmonds that have as little as 3g of carbs per serving or as high as 12g per serving - A person just has to be more aware.


For me and alot of natural people I know training 4-5 days a week is too much and can hurt them more than help them. Especially on a lower cal diet. They just can't recover fast enough. I'm not sure about people on , because I've never trained that way.

Just saying what worked for me . Didn't mean to say anything neg or imply that your wrong , but there is NO one way for this because everyone is different.

[natenator]

50g of TRACE carbs are still alot of carbs no matter how you look at it , unless your counting fibers in with this and in that case sure , since I don't count them because they cant be digested.
You can find ALmonds that have as little as 3g of carbs per serving or as high as 12g per serving - A person just has to be more aware.


For me and alot of natural people I know training 4-5 days a week is too much and can hurt them more than help them. Especially on a lower cal diet. They just can't recover fast enough. I'm not sure about people on , because I've never trained that way.

Just saying what worked for me . Didn't mean to say anything neg or imply that your wrong , but there is NO one way for this because everyone is different.
I disagree on the everyone is different angel. Getting down to 10%.. everyone can do on the same diet. Some may require more cardio than others but in general I believe the same diet can get everyone there. It's getting sub 10% which requires tweaks per the individual.

That's what I believe.

[Praetorian]

50g of TRACE carbs are still alot of carbs no matter how you look at it , unless your counting fibers in with this and in that case sure , since I don't count them because they cant be digested.
You can find ALmonds that have as little as 3g of carbs per serving or as high as 12g per serving - A person just has to be more aware.


For me and alot of natural people I know training 4-5 days a week is too much and can hurt them more than help them. Especially on a lower cal diet. They just can't recover fast enough. I'm not sure about people on , because I've never trained that way.

Just saying what worked for me . Didn't mean to say anything neg or imply that your wrong , but there is NO one way for this because everyone is different.

I guarantee you 50g trace carbs will not kick you out of ketosis. You are still missing the point...they are necessary to train...you cannot use ketone bodies. There are many hidden carbs getting to 50 is easy. 4-5 days per week for a natural person is perfectly fine...its about CNS recovery not muscular. Things may have worked "somewhat" for you...but they could have worked much more efficiently and better. There is a way to know...its called hundreds of clients and watch how they respond.
P

[Talo]

Sure , but the last time I did a bb show I was put on a cookie cutter diet ( pro / carbs / min fat ) and I went from 215 down to 167 - My cals were under 1600 so of course I would lose weight , but I lost way to much muscle and will never do that again. Some people can do that and keep there muscle . So people do react different to different or same diets as other people .

Just what I've seen.

[Talo]

I guarantee you 50g trace carbs will not kick you out of ketosis. You are still missing the point...they are necessary to train...you cannot use ketone bodies. There are many hidden carbs getting to 50 is easy. 4-5 days per week for a natural person is perfectly fine...its about CNS recovery not muscular. Things may have worked "somewhat" for you...but they could have worked much more efficiently and better. There is a way to know...its called hundreds of clients and watch how they respond.
P

Ok . But I do disagree.

I've been knocked out of ketosis with that amount. I would use those sticks to test it. maybe it happend because it was too large at one time. Know I didn't stay out for long , but it still took a day to get back .

Also I personally would do a re-feed every other weekend or every 10 days depending on how i was feeling and that would consist of carbs maily. I found that was all I needed to do to kick start everything and I was good for training -

Also with training , I guess if the intesity is lower a person can train 5 days a week. When I was training West Side Max effort / dynamic effort I couldn't train more than 3 times a week and recover proper. It was my CNS that took the beating everytime. Training that way is hard and I needed rest.

Currently I'm trying to train 4 days a week with a few days of rest inbetween ( S/M , T/F) so far so good. But that is a different training style also.

[Praetorian]

Ok . But I do disagree.

I've been knocked out of ketosis with that amount. I would use those sticks to test it. maybe it happend because it was too large at one time. Know I didn't stay out for long , but it still took a day to get back .

Also I personally would do a re-feed every other weekend or every 10 days depending on how i was feeling and that would consist of carbs maily. I found that was all I needed to do to kick start everything and I was good for training -

Also with training , I guess if the intesity is lower a person can train 5 days a week. When I was training West Side Max effort / dynamic effort I couldn't train more than 3 times a week and recover proper. It was my CNS that took the beating everytime. Training that way is hard and I needed rest.

Currently I'm trying to train 4 days a week with a few days of rest inbetween ( S/M , T/F) so far so good. But that is a different training style also.

Ketostix are completely inaccurate for a training athlete. Think about it...you are using ketone bodies for fuel as well as training...thus very little ketones will show up in your urine...but you are still in ketosis. All my clients do a refeed meal once per week.
P

[Talo]

I started to think that they were bunk after awhile of pissing on them for awhile. **** , sometimes I would go 3-4 days with very trace carbs and still be possitive on them.....

What do your refeed meals consist of ?

I was doing anywhere from 12-36 hrs of refeed , but I would go a bit longer than 5-7 days.

[Praetorian]

I started to think that they were bunk after awhile of pissing on them for awhile. **** , sometimes I would go 3-4 days with very trace carbs and still be possitive on them.....

What do your refeed meals consist of ?

I was doing anywhere from 12-36 hrs of refeed , but I would go a bit longer than 5-7 days.

Refeed MEAL....one only per week...more than that will slow fat loss. They consist of mainly carbs with a protein source....keep fat limited or you will get full too fast. Pasta, rice, pancakes with syrup, etc.
P

[baza]

As I said, CKD and Palumbo are entirely different. I'm sure he'd be more than happy with a regular Keto diet and getting to 10%, and not show ready.

[gsxr750]

Palumbo's diet is foolproof for getting to low BF. Easy prep, not too expensive, and results practically guaranteed if you're strict and do your cardio.


MEAL #1
5 whole (Omega-3) eggs + 4 egg whites

MEAL #2
SHAKE: 50g Whey Protein with 1 tablespoon of All Natural Peanut butter (no sugar)

MEAL #3
"Lean Protein Meal": 8oz chicken with 1/2-cup cashew nuts (almonds, or walnuts)

MEAL #4
SHAKE: 50g Whey Protein with 1 tablespoon of All Natural Peanut butter (no sugar added)

MEAL #5
"Fatty Protein Meal": 8oz Salmon, Swordfish, or RED MEAT with a green salad (no tomatoes, carrots, or red peppers) with 1 tablespoon of Olive Oil or Macadamia nut oil and vinegar

MEAL #6
SHAKE: 50g Whey with 1 tablespoon all natural peanut butter or 4 whole (Omega-3) eggs and 4 extra whites

- 2 weeks no cheating. Then have a cheat meal once a week in replace of meal 6, high carb, protein source and low fat

[Praetorian]

Bingo!! No reason to complicate things with a CKD. Plus you can stop the diet and maintain anytime you like...why waste time doing things inefficiently.
P

[cheesesteak]

Palumbo's diet is foolproof for getting to low BF. Easy prep, not too expensive, and results practically guaranteed if you're strict and do your cardio.


MEAL #1
5 whole (Omega-3) eggs + 4 egg whites

MEAL #2
SHAKE: 50g Whey Protein with 1 tablespoon of All Natural Peanut butter (no sugar)

MEAL #3
"Lean Protein Meal": 8oz chicken with 1/2-cup cashew nuts (almonds, or walnuts)

MEAL #4
SHAKE: 50g Whey Protein with 1 tablespoon of All Natural Peanut butter (no sugar added)

MEAL #5
"Fatty Protein Meal": 8oz Salmon, Swordfish, or RED MEAT with a green salad (no tomatoes, carrots, or red peppers) with 1 tablespoon of Olive Oil or Macadamia nut oil and vinegar

MEAL #6
SHAKE: 50g Whey with 1 tablespoon all natural peanut butter or 4 whole (Omega-3) eggs and 4 extra whites

- 2 weeks no cheating. Then have a cheat meal once a week in replace of meal 6, high carb, protein source and low fat

This is the exact diet I'm gonna do. I got my weight training split I do but what should I do for cardio on this?

Currently do 30 mins empty stomach morning (bike), 30 minutes PWO (treadmill)

[nisser]

I honestly didn't even need to do cardio on that diet and did very well. It was my first time and I was in absolute awe how well it worked.

P.S. if you're seeing someone, it'll be very difficult to stick to the diet.

[gsxr750]

Empty stomach AM cardio is ideal..low intensity cardio, 120BPM.. incline brisk walk on treadmill etc. Aim for at least 30 mins to start, work your way up to 1 hour.

Like Nisser said, you will probably lose some BF if you're weight training even without cardio. I did, I hated cardio. But then I reach a point where I have to do it to keep the BF loss going. Might as well keep it up cheesesteak if you're in the habit already, it will speed up your results.

[cheesesteak]

P.S. if you're seeing someone, it'll be very difficult to stick to the diet.

I'm not seeing anyone.

I''ll keep the cardio at 305 minutes, adding 5 minutes every week until I hit 1 hour. Sound good?

[Ritch]

I'm not seeing anyone.

I''ll keep the cardio at 305 minutes, adding 5 minutes every week until I hit 1 hour. Sound good?

What if you get serious with that 360lber your seeing. It will be hard to resist all the donuts, cake, pizza, candy, ice cream and other stuff she must within a 6inch radius of her, :laugh

[cheesesteak]

What if you get serious with that 360lber your seeing. It will be hard to resist all the donuts, cake, pizza, candy, ice cream and other stuff she must within a 6inch radius of her, :laugh

That will never be serious. She as a practice girl. One I will **** again. But never have a relationship with. She lives a block from the gym so it's a great way to get some PWO cardio in.

[natenator]

That will never be serious. She as a practice girl. One I will **** again. But never have a relationship with. She lives a block from the gym so it's a great way to get some PWO cardio in.
so gross

[cheesesteak]

so gross

It's all I can get at this point. When this keto diet is over I'll reasses my situation.

[natenator]

It's all I can get at this point. When this keto diet is over I'll reasses my situation.
dude, you could get laid by broads who don't weight 300lb+!

no one should be ****ing bitches that big *shudder*

I weigh in around 280 and the last chick I banged (last weekend) was a smokin hot, 5'3, 100lb chick.

[LIVEHARD]

dude, you could get laid by broads who don't weight 300lb+!

no one should be ****ing bitches that big *shudder*

I weigh in around 280 and the last chick I banged (last weekend) was a smokin hot, 5'3, 100lb chick.

You must have left her hole looking like Denise Masinos Big boy :a+

[cheesesteak]

Probably... but at least I got some after over a year of having none. So I feel more confident now. My options will be a lot better after 18 weeks of keto. The fact that I went from being close to 300lbs myself to what I am now is a life changing thing. My life is looking up from here.

[LIVEHARD]

Probably... but at least I got some after over a year of having none. So I feel more confident now. My options will be a lot better after 18 weeks of keto. The fact that I went from being close to 300lbs myself to what I am now is a life changing thing. My life is looking up from here.

:a+

[bigtavi8]

Good luck on trying the keto honestly. Just try it out and access how you feel. If your anything like me cutting carbs to a ridiculously low level might be really painful. But it will pay off. Work hard and try it but if your body is screaming at you to stop and low carbs doesnt work for you be honest with yourself. You have to make a call. Is it worth feeling this way when im not doing any shows or anything or would a gradual cut be easier on the mind and body. Not discouraging you in any way because keto is great but just see how you feel on it.

[bigtavi8]

dude, you could get laid by broads who don't weight 300lb+!

no one should be ****ing bitches that big *shudder*

I weigh in around 280 and the last chick I banged (last weekend) was a smokin hot, 5'3, 100lb chick.

Jesus christ. You must have made her cry!!!!:sex Im suprised you didnt throw her through the roof she probobly felt light as a piece of paper. MY old ex for a few years was like 95 pounds. I thought i was going to break her. And im 2/3 your weight.

[Brandi]

Good luck on trying the keto honestly. Just try it out and access how you feel. If your anything like me cutting carbs to a ridiculously low level might be really painful. But it will pay off. Work hard and try it but if your body is screaming at you to stop and low carbs doesnt work for you be honest with yourself. You have to make a call. Is it worth feeling this way when im not doing any shows or anything or would a gradual cut be easier on the mind and body. Not discouraging you in any way because keto is great but just see how you feel on it.

Me too. I did that once and almost ended up in the hospital. I diet on high carbs actually. Thats just what my body prefers.

[baza]

That's the problem with Palumbo. Fat really isn't that high. A lot of people feel like shit on it. In a CKD your fat is high and feel good.

[cheesesteak]

Good luck on trying the keto honestly. Just try it out and access how you feel. If your anything like me cutting carbs to a ridiculously low level might be really painful. But it will pay off. Work hard and try it but if your body is screaming at you to stop and low carbs doesnt work for you be honest with yourself. You have to make a call. Is it worth feeling this way when im not doing any shows or anything or would a gradual cut be easier on the mind and body. Not discouraging you in any way because keto is great but just see how you feel on it.

What symptoms should I be experiencing if it doesn't work for me?

Feeling a little weak for 18 weeks or so doesn't sound like such a rough thing if it's gonna get me down to where I want to be.

[JonnyO]

It's all I can get at this point. When this keto diet is over I'll reasses my situation.

This is what the yellow pages are for bro, lol.

[cheesesteak]

What about refeeds... said earlier in this thread to have lots of carbs with a protein source and not much fat. I read up on some keto threads on other boards and people are eating whole pizzas and meals that are probably 2000-3000 calories. Do I gotta eat that? I like having home food. I don't like fast food or restaurant food.

But I'll eat a pizza if I have to.

Whatever it takes to get to where I want to be. I've had a taste of what it's gonna be like and I'm hooked.

[bigtavi8]

Symptoms i expierences were exreme lathargy (almost zombie like), anxiety attacks, frustration, hard time concentrating. It was the most painful thing my mind has ever went through. Body was fine. Maybe slightly weaker. Its the mind on extremely low carbs/

[cheesesteak]

I can deal with being tired by having cat naps. I take medication for anxiety. Frustration and concentration would be a bitch but I really don't do anything to hard that I need to focus on.

I ate today at about 20g of carbs and felt fine. Those ****ing almonds fill me up and gave me a shitload of energy before the gym. Got a PR today.

I'm starting keto next week as there are some meals that I want to eat in the meantime before I go on an extended keto diet.

I'm sacrificing a lot of things for this diet so I'm gonna give it 100%.

[natenator]

for those who tried keto and had issues... You DID NOT do keto correctly. The first week sucks, yes but once your body adapts to using fat for energy you actually feel pretty damn good.

I didn't have one single issue with the diet and how it made me feel except that I was constantly bloated but believe that just to be *my* reaction to the diet. Energy was great, strength was awesome.

I am no longer in contest prep because of 2 severe injuries but still keeping on with a keto diet to try and reach me goal which was to get myself back into shape again.

The only time energy was an issue was due to the gross amount of cardio I was doing 2+hrs/day but that's was required of me otherwise if it was just an hour a day like I'm doing now? easy breazy :D

[daande]

You should feel like completely junk on a keto diet for 5-7 days. After that you should have more energy than before you started the diet.

[Talo]

Once you start this I think if you go 1-2 months and DON'T start to feel better then if may not be for you.

Like others have said , it will take some time ( 2-3 weeks most ) for your body to make the switch from useing carbs as energy to fat.

Goodluck - if dont right you will have great results.

[Praetorian]

It takes 72 hours to get into ketosis...not 5-7 days or two weeks etc. Your brain will switch to ketone bodies as fuel after 3 days and youll start to feel good. Two weeks is the time it takes to convince the brain to remain in ketosis even if "refeed" meals supplying glycogen are used.
If you arent feeling better on the fourth day you are doing things incorrectly.
P

[kloan]

Last time it took me 3 days of feeling like absolute CRAP.

Today is day 1 and I feel like shit.

[Ritch]

Last time it took me 3 days of feeling like absolute CRAP.

Today is day 1 and I feel like shit.

LOL! You`re not doing it right, keto is the most awesome diet and you keep all your strength and never feel tired while on it. Just kidding man... Ah I absolutely hate that diet and have a hard time understanding why people who don`t want to get competition cut even think about it. And even then... Many top pro`s have gotten ripped while doing the "not keto diet" Unless you like getting hit in the face with a shovel, by all means go for it...

This is by all means not to discourage anybody to try this. I`m just saying you can have an impressive physique if you simply cut carbs the last 3 meals of the day and if you value your sanity, would strongly recommend you do that. It may take a little longer but I`m assuming your in this for the long haul anyway.

This is just my opinion here, not trying to start a shit storm...

[Bigtred]

Different diets for different people. This is where a good, experienced trainer comes in handy. People who have that fast metabolism don't really need a keto diet. They can lose fat easily just by controlling their carbs/cals. People with the slower metabolism benefit more from a keto diet. Although it sucks while in the transition to ketosis, however, once in ketosis, it's much easier to control appetite.

[natenator]

LOL! You`re not doing it right, keto is the most awesome diet and you keep all your strength and never feel tired while on it. Just kidding man... Ah I absolutely hate that diet and have a hard time understanding why people who don`t want to get competition cut even think about it. And even then... Many top pro`s have gotten ripped while doing the "not keto diet" Unless you like getting hit in the face with a shovel, by all means go for it...

This is by all means not to discourage anybody to try this. I`m just saying you can have an impressive physique if you simply cut carbs the last 3 meals of the day and if you value your sanity, would strongly recommend you do that. It may take a little longer but I`m assuming your in this for the long haul anyway.

This is just my opinion here, not trying to start a shit storm...

You obviously haven't done this diet properly.

[bigtavi8]

i geuss my opinion on this isnt worth jack because i didnt feel good at all. Although i didnt do it for very long. Not def 18 weeks at all. But if guys do it and feel good on it after a week im going to have to look into it and do it right. Im not sure what was the prob last time i cut carbs drasticly but i should give it another go. afterall only a week of suffering at most then it gets better...

[Ritch]

You obviously haven't done this diet properly.

I`ve given it a serious run, but I feel nauseous from the high amounts of fat needed. I do acknoledge it as a very effective diet, just not for me.

[natenator]

I`ve given it a serious run, but I feel nauseous from the high amounts of fat needed. I do acknoledge it as a very effective diet, just not for me.
Fats really aren't *that* high on the diet. Sure, higher than most other diets but not crazy high.

[Ritch]

Fats really aren't *that* high on the diet. Sure, higher than most other diets but not crazy high.

That I agree with, but having them in that quantity every meal, just dosen`t agree with me. Which is why the protein+carb for 2-3 meals then protein+fat or 3-4 meals works best for me. It`s just the best of both worlds and the least amount of suffering involved. Although I hear it alot of positive feedback on this site, I have yet to talk to one person who agrees with that. But as you said, maybe they`re just not doing it right... But doing it right for most is almost friggin impossible, so which is why in the end I would always recommend something similar to what I outlined. Then make adjustments from there if need be.

[natenator]

That I agree with, but having them in that quantity every meal, just dosen`t agree with me. Which is why the protein+carb for 2-3 meals then protein+fat or 3-4 meals works best for me. It`s just the best of both worlds and the least amount of suffering involved. Although I hear it alot of positive feedback on this site, I have yet to talk to one person who agrees with that. But as you said, maybe they`re just not doing it right... But doing it right for most is almost friggin impossible, so which is why in the end I would always recommend something similar to what I outlined. Then make adjustments from there if need be.
cool cool :)

[Praetorian]

I`ve given it a serious run, but I feel nauseous from the high amounts of fat needed. I do acknoledge it as a very effective diet, just not for me.

Post the keto diet you used...we may be able to offer some constructive advice.
P

[Ritch]

The diet would have had 30-50 grams of protein and 30-45 grams of fat per meal. 3 meals and 3 shakes. That may be a little higher on the calorie side, but I do fave a body that looses weight fast if I don`t keep up in that department. The fat sources were from eggs, udo`s choice oil, nuts and natural peanut butter. The protein from meat, eggs and protein powder.

Whenever I try to eat more than 3 yolks, I really don`t feel good. Same with any liquid fat source like udo`s choice, flax or even worse olive oil (extra virgin) 2 tablespoons is the absolute max I can handle.

The solution I was thinking would be to mix some fat sources to get the cals needed. Natural peanut butter and almonds are the one`s that agree most with me. One problem however with eggs is that I must use some ketchup with them. That`s the only flaw I can see but a minimal one which I`m sure still hade me in ketosis.

[Praetorian]

The diet would have had 30-50 grams of protein and 30-45 grams of fat per meal. 3 meals and 3 shakes. That may be a little higher on the calorie side, but I do fave a body that looses weight fast if I don`t keep up in that department. The fat sources were from eggs, udo`s choice oil, nuts and natural peanut butter. The protein from meat, eggs and protein powder.

Whenever I try to eat more than 3 yolks, I really don`t feel good. Same with any liquid fat source like udo`s choice, flax or even worse olive oil (extra virgin) 2 tablespoons is the absolute max I can handle.

The solution I was thinking would be to mix some fat sources to get the cals needed. Natural peanut butter and almonds are the one`s that agree most with me. One problem however with eggs is that I must use some ketchup with them. That`s the only flaw I can see but a minimal one which I`m sure still hade me in ketosis.


Depending on bodyweight your protein if 50g may be too high...at 280lbs my meals are 50g...guys starting around 230 or so should be 40-45g per meal. The fat content per meal is much too high as well...unless you are 300lbs plus. Most of my clients do very well on 15-20g fat per meal. Udos's oil is not a good choice while dieting..you want mostly omega 3 ( i spoke to Udo himself about this and he agrees) flax oil is not a good choice, requires conversion, estrogenic, etc extra virgin olive oil is better, fish oil is best. Ketchup has sugar not good for keto diet...there are sugar free ones available..i use Franks red hot sauce instead. Stop worrying about cals....thats one of your biggest issues with this not working.
P

[Ritch]

To cheesesteak, sorry for highjacking your thread here...

Oh man, to hear extra virgin oil is better is not good news for me. I tried drinking it a few times this summer, and still taste it... If fish oil is best and each cap has on average 1 gram of fish oil, does that mean you take 15-20 caps every meal? Yike$$$

Does macadaminan oil taste like extra virgin oil? Wouldn`t almonds be good in a shake? I often grind up almonds and put them in my shakes for when I`m at work to get a good 30 grams of fat since I`m often having no carbs at night. (Not dieting right now)

When other people who do the diet, do they complain that other people tell them they`re looking small? Because asides from feeling weak, tired, and just unmotivated, each time I would go on this diet people would tell me I look flat and even sick, that I looked better before...

[gsxr750]

I seem to 'flatten' out towards the end of the week, but after my cheat meal on Sunday I wake up on Monday looking great, quite full and vascular, and lots of energy to train my lagging body part!

I have a hard time dieting with carbs. Mostly because it means I have to do higher intensity cardio for longer durations, and my cravings dont go away.. always eyeing the sweet stuff.

I much prefer this method, effecient fat loss and once you're where you want to be body fat wise, its not hard to maintain, and then your fullness comes right back

[Ritch]

When you do your re feed meal, how long do you stay looking full for? But damn! One re feed meal a week seems to rigid! Hats off to you guys who pull this off!

[Praetorian]

To cheesesteak, sorry for highjacking your thread here...

Oh man, to hear extra virgin oil is better is not good news for me. I tried drinking it a few times this summer, and still taste it... If fish oil is best and each cap has on average 1 gram of fish oil, does that mean you take 15-20 caps every meal? Yike$$$ LOL I WOULDNT DRINK IT....JUST ADD 1 TBSP TO YOUR SHAKE...NO TASTE AT ALL...OR USE IT ON SALAD, FISH OIL DOES COME IN LIQUID..CHEAPER...BUT YES OVERALL MORE EXPENSIVE SO MOST CLIENTS JUST TAKE 2000MG PER DAY.

Does macadaminan oil taste like extra virgin oil? Wouldn`t almonds be good in a shake? I often grind up almonds and put them in my shakes for when I`m at work to get a good 30 grams of fat since I`m often having no carbs at night. (Not dieting right now) ALMOND OIL, MAC OIL ALL GOOD, ALMONDS ARE OK IN A SHAKE YES...I PREFER ALMOND BUTTER

When other people who do the diet, do they complain that other people tell them they`re looking small? Because asides from feeling weak, tired, and just unmotivated, each time I would go on this diet people would tell me I look flat and even sick, that I looked better before... THE LOOKING SMALL EXCUSE PREVENTS THE MAJORITY OF SO CALLED BODYBUILDERS FROM EVER LOOKING GOOD AND STEPPING ON STAGE...DONT LISTEN TO IDIOTS IN THE GYM, PUT THE EARPHONEs IN AND TRAIN. LET THEM SEE YOU AFTER 16 WEEKS OF DIETING AND THEYLL WISH THEY LOOKED LIKE YOU.



P

[Praetorian]

When you do your re feed meal, how long do you stay looking full for? But damn! One re feed meal a week seems to rigid! Hats off to you guys who pull this off!

You will be full on this diet if you give it a chance. The body will use fat to fill out..trust me on this....youll get some nasty pumps and wonder how without a carb in site.
P

[Ritch]

It`s hard not to want to use such a diet when there are many guys "who are up there" who advocate this. Although I`m still way far from doing a cut I like to know exactly what I`m doing months ahead of time which is why I value this converstion.

Can any of you tell me if you need the amount of fish oil caps I said earlier to get your fat sources? I was thinking of using natural p-b for a meal, eggs for a meal, ground up almonds for another, then fish oil caps for the other 3 as my main fat sources. Macadamian nut oil or nuts if I can find them. But say I need 20 per meal, that would mean about 1 bottle of fish oil caps a week! Not all that over the top expensive, just something maybe I could stock up on in the mean time if need be.

[kloan]

How about walnut oil? I was using this last time I was on Keto...

Good to know Flax oil isn't good, I'll avoid using that now. And also good to see the recommendation for almond butter, since I'll replace peanut butter with that in my shakes. Olive oil is easily mixed in a shake, can't taste it, so no worries there.

I think fish oils can still be used in supplement doses, and fats achieved from other sources. Too much fish oil is not only pricey, but unless it's super high quality, there are issues of accumulating trace amount of toxins from the fish. It also tastes like absolute shit when it's burped up, which is almost guaranteed in high amounts.

Pushing through day 3 (my previous post was wrong, that was day 2). Head feels thick and heavy......

[cheesesteak]

For that Palumbo diet, is it for a 200lb man or a 200lb of LBM man? I only have 161lbs of lean body mass according to when I got my bf% done when I joined the gym. I doubt I've gained any muscle while cutting.

Should the diet be adjusted or just start it on thursday and see what happens?

[gsxr750]

Start with the Palumbo diet and do your AM low intensity cardio. Calories are not lowered on this diet, cardio is just increased.

Enjoy, I love this diet.. but hard for me for the first week or so.

[kloan]

Calories are not lowered on this diet, cardio is just increased.


Ohh.... so I don't necessarily need to be in a caloric deficit to burn fat?

So, cardio is increased.. low intensity (120bpm) but for longer amounts?

[gsxr750]

Yes some end up doing 1hr AM and 1hr PM.

Right now i'm only at 45min AM incline walk on treadmill and still dropping weight..

[gsxr750]

These pictures help motivate me. Praetorian - 16 weeks Palumbo diet.. says he went from est. 15% body fat to 4-5%. (Taken from the Palumbo thread hope P doesn't mind)

http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/3430/rdb2.jpg

http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/426/rdbr.jpg

[kloan]

Yes some end up doing 1hr AM and 1hr PM.

Right now i'm only at 45min AM incline walk on treadmill and still dropping weight..
hmm.. so i guess 30 mins after workouts 3 times a week isn't quite enough then...

[cheesesteak]

I was planning on starting with just 30 minutes day, then bumping it up every week or bi-weekly by 5 minutes.

[cheesesteak]

For my PWO shake what do I do? Right now I take 54g whey isolate, 10g glutamine. Gonna be adding creatine. Do I needs fats with this? Or should I just wait until I get home after a workout (like 20 minutes) to have a shake with some fats?

[Bigtred]

No fats PWO

[cheesesteak]

So just the whey isolate/creatine/glutamine then


Shit man, this diet sounds so freaking easy. Can't wait to start it. The only hard part I see is eating all those eggs at the first meal.

[nitrous]

wow those pics of P are impressive.. was he taking anything aas wise to retain the muscle over that 16 week period? or any other cutters as i know he is a fan of clen

[AlbertaBeef]

So just the whey isolate/creatine/glutamine then


Shit man, this diet sounds so freaking easy. Can't wait to start it. The only hard part I see is eating all those eggs at the first meal.

All the meals are inter-changeable and you can eat whatever meal you want at any given time of the day. I used to die snarkin' down all those eggs before my morning workout but the shake & PB were great and I had no problem with the eggs after.

[gsxr750]

No fats PWO

That's true on most diets, but not this one. All the meals have fat in them.

[Bigtred]

That's true on most diets, but not this one. All the meals have fat in them.

That may be the rule on this diet, but I believe right after a hard workout there's nothing better than getting AA's to your muscles as fast as possible. Fat slows it down. Just my opinion of course

[gsxr750]

Nono you're absolutely right.. I suppose you could still delay the fats a bit on the diet depending on what meal falls as your PWO meal.

If it's PB and shake, just have the shake PWO, and have the PB 30mins later?

I doubt there'd be any harm in that?

[kloan]

.........

[Praetorian]

For my PWO shake what do I do? Right now I take 54g whey isolate, 10g glutamine. Gonna be adding creatine. Do I needs fats with this? Or should I just wait until I get home after a workout (like 20 minutes) to have a shake with some fats?

Yes you need to have fat PWO...have the whey isolate with water and have 1.5 Tbsp natty peanut butter...i add the PB into the shake and down the whole things...you get a nice chewy lump at the bottom...but when you are dieting it is soooo good.
P

[Bigtred]

Yes you need to have fat PWO...have the whey isolate with water and have 1.5 Tbsp natty peanut butter...i add the PB into the shake and down the whole things...you get a nice chewy lump at the bottom...but when you are dieting it is soooo good.
P

Why would you want to slow consumption of protein after working out? Is it just this particular diet that calls for this?

[Praetorian]

Why would you want to slow consumption of protein after working out? Is it just this particular diet that calls for this?

On keto your energy source (recuperation etc) comes from fat. You are NOT building muscle you are maintaining. Thus you are not replacing glycogen stores you are preventing catabolism.
Off season whey and waxy with no fat is ideal...on keto whey and PB.
P

[kloan]

I'm glad this was mentioned, since I was thinking I was supposed to keep the fat out of my PWO shake.

[Ritch]

Just noticed your new avatar GSX. Hilarious!

[cheesesteak]

Yes you need to have fat PWO...have the whey isolate with water and have 1.5 Tbsp natty peanut butter...i add the PB into the shake and down the whole things...you get a nice chewy lump at the bottom...but when you are dieting it is soooo good.
P

That sounds so gross. I'll just drink the shake then eat the pb off the spoon.

[natenator]

That sounds so gross. I'll just drink the shake then eat the pb off the spoon.
That's what I do.

FYI: Fiber is VERY important in this diet. I recommend fiberlyze as it's the only thing that works for me but if you can get away with something cheaper then do it.

[cheesesteak]

What about switching that salad for some broccoli with a tbspn of oil on it?

[natenator]

What about switching that salad for some broccoli with a tbspn of oil on it?
stick with the salad. It's actually tasty and trust me you'll want some ****ing taste. lol

[cheesesteak]

I've eaten salad like that. I don't really taste food. I like things bland.

Oh, and what kind of salt do I use on this diet? Sea salt or regular salt?

[natenator]

I've eaten salad like that. I don't really taste food. I like things bland.

Oh, and what kind of salt do I use on this diet? Sea salt or regular salt?
any salt will be just fine

[cheesesteak]

I like Sea Salt so I'll use that.

Going grocery shopping in a couple hours and then start my diet when I wake up around 10am. I'm pumped!

[gsxr750]

I made a new salad dressing for my diet, just 1 part extra virgin olive oil, 3 parts red wine vinegar (0 cals) garlic powder, basil, and salt and pepper to taste. I added 1 packet of splenda.

Tastes good. Just make sure you remember to have instead of 1.5tbsp of dressing you'd have roughly 4.5 tablespoons with this recipe to get the proper ammount of fat.

[cheesesteak]

I may not be posting a lot in the next while.... so some questions

When weight loss stalls, how much should I increase cardio? 5 minutes? I'm starting at 30 minutes upon waking only

When I do my refeed meal on the second week, what is ideal to have? (name some meals) How many calories/carbs should I be aiming for? I don't crave food so I just want what's going to be most beneficial.

[cheesesteak]

I got my cardio plan down.

What should my refeed meal be?

[natenator]

I got my cardio plan down.

What should my refeed meal be?
refeed meal is in 2 weeks from start date.

I was successful with:

10-16 4" pancakes (or 3 really huge ones)
100ml real syrup and 200ml sugar free syrup (I like lots of syrup)
Lg Oreo Blizzard


Anything more than this and my stomach was dead and even then it still felt like too much.

[L3]

cheesy if i was you id start the diet ASAP... im on day 2 and feeling shitty is an understatement.... cant wait for ketosis

[cheesesteak]

I'm on day 1 right now! Got 2 meals left, did legs today, 2 cardio sessions. Feels ****ing awesome. Don't feel bloated like I did when eating carbs. I like how the diet is so precise that I can't overeat. The steak + salad is going to be the best meal of the diet. The eggs were pretty darn easy to get down (which I thought would be a problem) after a cardio session.

[L3]

awesome man

hopefully your good mood stays!

[cheesesteak]

I really feel lighter. I thought I would feel like complete shit after legs and really didn't even feel like doing them today. But went in there and busted out 3 PR's. Haven't felt really hungry today and that steak is gonna get cooked in 15 minutes. Wondering how the salad will taste with just olive oil on it.

I weighed in at 215.2 lbs 3/4 through the day (forgot to weigh myself this morning). So should be interesting to see where I am in 2 weeks.

[kloan]

i feel like ass. head is foggy, im tired and unmotivated. very unlike the usual ketosis feelings... especially the foggy head feeling. still sore from two days ago as well. this is 10 days in...

[Bigtred]

When I go for ketosis, I usually find it easier to skip the first couple of days (dieting wise) I eat alot!!(even above maintenance) Very high fat, and by the third day I'll start lowering my cals and I have no problem making the transition to ketosis.

[Mr Ontario]

What about this one?

Meal 1:
2 scoops whey protein
15 raw almonds
3,000 mg fish oil
1,300 mg evening primrose oil
meal 2:
6 oz. Chicken (measured after cooking)
1 cup green beans or broccoli (optional)
meal 3:
2 scoops whey protein
1 tbsp natural peanut butter
1 cup green beans or broccoli (optional)
meal 4:
6 oz. Chicken
1 cup green beans or broccoli (optional)
meal 5:
6 oz. Chicken
15 raw almonds
1 cup green beans or broccoli (optional)
meal 6:
2 scoops whey protein
1 tbsp natural peanut butter
1 cup green beans or broccoli (optional)
　
*** feel free to use zero calorie condiments like: Butter spray, mustard, salt, etc…***

*** you may use crystal light in your water if you would like***
　
*** once per week have an additional 500 calories added to meal 6. It can consist of whatever you want***

[cheesesteak]

Start up day 2 and I'm down 2lbs from yesterday. Definately water weight.

[cheesesteak]

I'm going to a restaurant with my dad in a couple of hours and that's when I'd be having meal #4 (shake). I was gonna get at the restaurant 2 eggs with 3 pieces of bacon. Not so bad a substitute for this one time only is it?

[kloan]

Shakes aren't mandatory.. that meal is fine. Feel free to add a couple sausage to it as well!

I went out for breakfast a few days ago because I was out of eggs. I got 4 eggs over easy, 2 sausages and 2 bacon strips. DELICIOUS! (and guilt-free)

[cheesesteak]

That's good. I don't really have anything in common with my dad and he seems to be behind me losing weight. This is his way of helping me out not having to use my own food for a meal.

I may get some sausage as well then.

[natenator]

I'm going to a restaurant with my dad in a couple of hours and that's when I'd be having meal #4 (shake). I was gonna get at the restaurant 2 eggs with 3 pieces of bacon. Not so bad a substitute for this one time only is it?
fish (salmon) and salad, steak and salad.

Sausage/bacon is a bad sub.

[cheesesteak]

What is done is done, I had 2 eggs with 3 small sausage links. Otherwise diet is exactly as given to me. That mess up won't happen again.

Feeling good on my second day of keto. No strength loss. No food cravings.

[natenator]

the food cravings don't really hit til after you get your first whiff of a cheat meal lol

then for a day or 2 your ****ed with a jacked up metabolism, increased thyroid function and mind thinking you can eat that shit again. I had a love-hate affair with my cheat meals lol

[cheesesteak]

I took pictures yesterday so I can compare them up when I'm done my diet. Should be interesting. No bother in posting them now as there is no point.

[macka]

I'm not seeing anyone.

I''ll keep the cardio at 305 minutes, adding 5 minutes every week until I hit 1 hour. Sound good?

that works well

[cheesesteak]

The past 2 days I've been doing 40 minutes 2x a day. Kinda feels a bit like overtraining, with weights added on top of that.

[natenator]

The past 2 days I've been doing 40 minutes 2x a day. Kinda feels a bit like overtraining, with weights added on top of that.
what's your training look like???

[natenator]

this is also a reason why keto without being chemically assisted is very difficult to do. Recovery is a problem...

[cheesesteak]

Should I still continue with the double sessions? They aren't that bad, but it is draining afterwards. I feel fine now, but after training I feel like going to sleep.

[natenator]

Should I still continue with the double sessions? They aren't that bad, but it is draining afterwards. I feel fine now, but after training I feel like going to sleep.
keep with it.

[cheesesteak]

what's your training look like???

Mon - Back
WG Pulldown - 4 sets
CG Pulldown - 3 sets
TBar Rows - 3 sets
DB Rows - 3 sets
Deadlifts - 3 sets

Tues - Chest/Tri/Calves
Incline Bench - 3 sets
Cable Crossovers - 3 sets
Flat Bench - 3 sets
Cable Pushdowns - 3 sets
Skullcrushers - 3 sets
1 Arm Pulldowns - 3 sets
Dips - 1 set to failure
Standing Calf Raises - 3 sets to failure
Seated Calf Raises - 3 sets to failure

Wed - Off

Thurs - Delt/Bi
DB Press - 4 sets
Rear Delt Laterals - 4 sets
Side Delt Machine Laterals - 4 sets
Upright Rows - 3 sets
Shrugs - 4 sets
BB curls or bb preachers - 3 sets
Alternate DB curls - 4 sets
Hammer DB curls - 2 sets
Reverse Preacher curls - 4 sets

Fri - Legs
Leg Extensions - 3 sets
Squats - 4 sets
Leg Press - 4 sets
Lying Leg Curls - 2 sets

Sat - Off

Sun - Off


Abs - done 3 x per week
Machine Weighted Crunches - 4 sets
Hanging Leg Raises - 3 sets
Weighted Oblique Crunches - 4 sets
Lying Leg Raises - 3 sets

Cardio - done first thing upon waking, then again PWO on training days, otherwise any time after 5 hours since my previous cardio session

[cheesesteak]

OH man, need urgent advice.

I was out and couldn't eat my regular meal and had to get something fast food. I got a double quarter pounder with no condiments, scraped as much cheese as I could, and just ate the meat. Will that cheese break me out of keto?

[L3]

relax buddy, its not the cheese that will kick you out of ketosis... its the BREAD (carbs).

so, you can stay in ketosis eating double cheeseburgers as long as there are no condiments and no buns...i wouldnt recommend it for fat loss... last night i had 4 babybels

[cheesesteak]

Sweet! I was out with my brother and he takes for ****ing ever to look at stuff. He never bought anything either which pissed me off.

Should I be in ketosis now? Day 5 today

[L3]

IMO its on a case by case basis, i know i am at least 75% there since my energy levels are stable and im not passing out at work

by the 2 week mark you will be, and you can enjoy your cheat meal :)

[natenator]

Sweet! I was out with my brother and he takes for ****ing ever to look at stuff. He never bought anything either which pissed me off.

Should I be in ketosis now? Day 5 today
Dont worry about whether you are or aren't in ketosis. Just follow the diet and you won't need to worry about such things.

You know you are though when energy levels stablize and you really aren't very hungry - one of the positives (and negatives) of this diet.

[cheesesteak]

My energy is very high today. Yesterday I felt like shit. I've been following the diet pretty much to the letter except those 2 times. I took a pic today because my brother was saying my right bicep looks better and it shows in the pic that it's leaner. I'll be posting pics on friday in my journal.

[natenator]

My energy is very high today. Yesterday I felt like shit. I've been following the diet pretty much to the letter except those 2 times. I took a pic today because my brother was saying my right bicep looks better and it shows in the pic that it's leaner. I'll be posting pics on friday in my journal.
pics once a week and weigh yourself once a week.

Otherwise you are just asking for mental troubles. Trust me... I know!

[cheesesteak]

pics once a week and weigh yourself once a week.

Otherwise you are just asking for mental troubles. Trust me... I know!

Will do man. Weight myself on friday (will be eating cheat meal on those days) and pics on friday.

I really gotta thank all you guys for the help you've given me. I've never been this dedicated and seeing feeling results in my life.

[natenator]

Will do man. Weight myself on friday (will be eating cheat meal on those days) and pics on friday.

I really gotta thank all you guys for the help you've given me. I've never been this dedicated and seeing feeling results in my life.
Just remember, you aren't doing a show. We all want results quickly but don't kill yourself trying to get to X goal if it means having a bit of balance in your life and not burning out. Burn out is a big problem. I experienced it large when I had to stop dieting. Granted, I have some pretty brutal injuries I was dealing with but still it took me almost 3 weeks to have the dessire to want to eat properly again and get back into the gym on a full-time basis even if it means not training like I was able to prior to being injured.

Balance is very important and if you don't have any competitive goals which you need to kill yourself for then take a bit longer if needs be. You'll get there.

[oster]

Good work cheesesteak, stick with it!

How do you guys feel about using caffine-epherine while on this deit..?

[theboss]

stimulants are added once you stop losing weight...

1st KETO DIET
2nd KETO DIET + CARDIO
3rd KETO DIET + INCREASE CARDIO
4th KETO DIET + INCREASE CARDIO + STIMS

[cheesesteak]

Is it possible to have my cheat on day 10 (thanksgiving) instead of 14? Or would that just completely screw me over?

[baza]

That's fine.