Supplements Are Sketchy

[O-Train]

Had a good conversation with a couple guys at the gym yesterday (obviously after my workout not during). Got onto the topic of a supplement called Muscle Prime by Allmax. He mentioned that it contained a chemical called DMAE and that he figured it woud get flagged and removed. Sure enough new label, without DMAE. The interesting part is that after he peeled off the new label it revealed the old one underneath with the original list of ingredients. Imgaine the fines and legal ramifications of something like this.

Something to keep in mind is that Steroids have been around and researched for over 50 years. A lot of the ingredients in over the counter supplements have not been well researched and/or were not originally meant for human consumption. I'm not advocating anything. Just that people are really naive to think only hormones can produce negative effects. Half of the "pre-workout" supplements have 30 or 40 different ingredients that you can barely pronounce let alone understand. The whole industry is just sketchy. Money + lack of regulation + snake oil = sketchy.

[Gemini]

+1 for roids

[SARGE]

Had a good conversation with a couple guys at the gym yesterday (obviously after my workout not during). Got onto the topic of a supplement called Muscle Prime by Allmax. He mentioned that it contained a chemical called DMAE and that he figured it woud get flagged and removed. Sure enough new label, without DMAE. The interesting part is that after he peeled off the new label it revealed the old one underneath with the original list of ingredients. Imgaine the fines and legal ramifications of something like this.

Something to keep in mind is that Steroids have been around and researched for over 50 years. A lot of the ingredients in over the counter supplements have not been well researched and/or were not originally meant for human consumption. I'm not advocating anything. Just that people are really naive to think only hormones can produce negative effects. Half of the "pre-workout" supplements have 30 or 40 different ingredients that you can barely pronounce let alone understand. The whole industry is just sketchy. Money + lack of regulation + snake oil = sketchy.So true

[cprom185]

This is why I try to avoid supplements with large content lists.

[kloan]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimethylethanolamine

Doesn't sound so serious...

I agree these supplement companies are putting a lot of ingredients into these mixes with not a lot of research to back it up. It is somewhat a concern considering any possible long term health effects they might produce.

There really should be more regulations involved. Not to say the government should be able to restrict everything, but there should be mandates requiring more studies for a lot of ingredients these companies are using.

I think there should also be a crackdown on all the false claims from products on the market, but then you'd see empty shelves just about everywhere from vitamin shops to grocery stores.

[Ritch]

When did this happen, DMAE has been illegal in Canada for a long time now. Stuff works pretty good as a mood/concentration enhancer.

[simone]

Whatever allmax did there seems a bit sketch.

there are quite a few studies and clinical trials on alot of ingredients... for the majority to put a claim like 23% more fat burning, they need clinical research for this...

as the industry grows, there is more companies suiing other companies because of outlandish claims.. so it kind of is starting to become more self regulating.. plus the government is kicking it up... NHP submissions.. etc. etc.

there are tonnes of drugs out there though that have negative side effects... yet are still find to get prescribed...

again be careful what you wish for... stiffer regulations by the government (which i personally don't think should have much say in alot of things in life) increases costs of supplements, makes them harder to get etc...

[O-Train]

When did this happen, DMAE has been illegal in Canada for a long time now. Stuff works pretty good as a mood/concentration enhancer.

Well, apparently the stuff my buddy has right now contains DMAE.

If you do a search on it what do you find? Wikipedia and a write up from some guy on BB.com who did the exact same google search you did plus some copy and paste. Not the best sources.

I honestly don't trust half the studies that are done either. Too much conflict of interest and money involved. The supplement companies pay for the studies...wink wink, nudge nudge...make my product sound good or we'll use another University to do research. If you get creative with word selection and marketing you can make anything sound good.

[O-Train]

I should also mention this isn't exclusive to the supplement industry. I'm sure the supplement industry is very similar to the pharma industry in general. Although I think drugs are still much more heavily regulated.

Right now I work in pre-clinical research, seriously thinking about becoming certified and getting into clinical research. If anyone on the board works in clinical research I would be really interested in talking to you. Looking at a couple different options right now.

[bigtavi8]

I feel like supplements for preworkout have more sides then actually doing it the right way. Preworkout supps are one thing becuase they may make you edgy, shaky, have to shit LOL but those OTC test boosters are the worst. **** those have so many unlisted and untested ingredients you never know. At least when you buy say a bottle of dbol from a good source you know what your getting 99% of the time. With supps its anyones guess and half of them havent even been tested long enough..

Another thing is i read in Muscle Development magazine is that 25% of supplements made athletes fail drug test due to nandrolone like metabolites. SO to say supps arent contaminated is BS.

[cnelson09]

gotta agree with you on that one. thats why the only supp i really use is basic whey protein and creatine monohydrate. i wont touch a supp if it says " proprietary blend"

[jsv22]

Right now I work in pre-clinical research, seriously thinking about becoming certified and getting into clinical research. If anyone on the board works in clinical research I would be really interested in talking to you. Looking at a couple different options right now.

I've been involved organizing/planning/running a few trials. I know of a girl in my lab who wants to get into this too. I believe she is going to be taking a clinical trials manager diploma this coming year. It's basically a course in regulations and ethics from what i understand

[steve_d]

I should also mention this isn't exclusive to the supplement industry. I'm sure the supplement industry is very similar to the pharma industry in general. Although I think drugs are still much more heavily regulated.

Right now I work in pre-clinical research, seriously thinking about becoming certified and getting into clinical research. If anyone on the board works in clinical research I would be really interested in talking to you. Looking at a couple different options right now.

I've been a biostatistician for a health research institute for 7 years now. Published in 40+ high end journals. Feel free to contact me anytime...You wouldn't believe the lack of quality of some research that goes on. I work with people in basically a number of departments. Don't get me wrong, there's a lot of great research out there, but trust me - there are just as many that are basically useless.

Basically, in most research, my contribution is one of the most useful pieces of the puzzle. Poorly done stats can really sway things one way or another (thankfully, high end journals will pick up on that). But to conduct research without stats background, or someone with stats background by your side is asking for trouble.

On a side note, I'd love to use my stats expertise for something that follows my interests as well (ie. bodybuilding / nutrition). Would give me a break from the typical medical studies I am used to!

[Ritch]

So 0_hurley, does this mean your going to start a cycle soon?

[O-Train]

So 0_hurley, does this mean your going to start a cycle soon?

No. I've got a second kid on the way. Lots of other stuff to worry about.

[O-Train]

I've been involved organizing/planning/running a few trials. I know of a girl in my lab who wants to get into this too. I believe she is going to be taking a clinical trials manager diploma this coming year. It's basically a course in regulations and ethics from what i understand

I think I was looking at a similar course. For a Clinical Research Associate with GCP. Was the course being offered online or through a school? The other option I was considering is taking the basic accreditation course offered by CCPE (Council for Continuing Pharmaceutical Education). That accreditation is required to be a Pharmaceutical Sales Rep (within 2 years). So I figured if I take it before hand I would have a better shot at landing a job.

[baza]

Supplement market is a dirty business.

Low profits and tons of competition. A lot of corner cutting and shady cost cutting measures.

[O-Train]

I've been a biostatistician for a health research institute for 7 years now. Published in 40+ high end journals. Feel free to contact me anytime...You wouldn't believe the lack of quality of some research that goes on. I work with people in basically a number of departments. Don't get me wrong, there's a lot of great research out there, but trust me - there are just as many that are basically useless.

Basically, in most research, my contribution is one of the most useful pieces of the puzzle. Poorly done stats can really sway things one way or another (thankfully, high end journals will pick up on that). But to conduct research without stats background, or someone with stats background by your side is asking for trouble.

On a side note, I'd love to use my stats expertise for something that follows my interests as well (ie. bodybuilding / nutrition). Would give me a break from the typical medical studies I am used to!

Very interesting Steve. I'll PM you for sure.

[CanadianIron]

Maybe allmax ordered/printed 50,000 containers and had to change the ingredients so they printed out new labels?

I cant imagine them lying about the contents of the container, that would be retarded.